Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach | Thread locked during matches

Should United part ways with Amorim?

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Walters_19_MuFc said:
How does my suggestion that he should be doing better imply that he needs to change his system? That’s not what I’m saying at all. He can stick with his system—that’s fine. But the reality is, he’s not getting the best out of the squad we have.
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I don't understand why relatively benign opinions like "we need to improve" or "Amorim needs to work with what he's got" automatically get interpreted by a lot of posters as "we need to scrap the system entirely and go back to Ole-ball".

It's also starting to feel like "the system" is becoming a thought-terminating empty buzzword on the Caf, like "the structure" last season or "the philosophy" when LVG was in charge.
 
Big Ben Foster said:
I don't understand why relatively benign opinions like "we need to improve" or "Amorim needs to work with what he's got" automatically get interpreted by a lot of posters as "we need to scrap the system entirely and go back to Ole-ball".
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Why do you go on about interpretation a lot? Weird flex

There are many who say he should change system clearly, Ole-ball though? Eh?
 
Anyone who said we were worse under Amorim have certainly forgot how shit we are under ten Hag.
ETH in game management was so bad if we went behind, I 99% sure we wont get back in the game.
For what it's worth Amorim went to Anfield and took it like a champ, almost winning that game. Ten Hag got pumped 7 fecking 0 which still the worst United defeat against Liverpool. He should be sacked for that result alone
 
reelworld said:
Anyone who said we were worse under Amorim have certainly forgot how shit we are under ten Hag.
ETH in game management was so bad if we went behind, I 99% sure we wont get back in the game.
For what it's worth Amorim went to Anfield and took it like a champ, almost winning that game. Ten Hag got pumped 7 fecking 0 which still the worst United defeat against Liverpool. He should be sacked for that result alone
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For all our current faults, the in-game management and substitutions have improved tremendously since ETH was sacked. Obviously there's still room for improvement, but still, a breath of fresh air.
 
Fooza said:
Why do you go on about interpretation a lot? Weird flex

There are many who say he should change system clearly, Ole-ball though? Eh?
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Some of us enjoy having actual discussions in here without having to put up with reductive cliches and straw men over and over.
 
Big Ben Foster said:
For all our current faults, the in-game management and substitutions have improved tremendously since ETH was sacked. Obviously there's still room for improvement, but still, a breath of fresh air.
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Now we dont have a fraud calling the shots. He might not work in the end, it is a possibility. But he has a clear vision, knows how to coach, know how to read a game, knows what is needed to move forward. But yes, the results may not come, there is a big chance for that to happen.
 
Big Ben Foster said:
Some of us enjoy having actual discussions in here without having to put up with reductive cliches and straw men over and over.
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Maybe just maybe, when people are here suggesting Amorim should improve things or work with what he's got, there's a more complex reasons why he isn't which is being discussed.

Oh wait you ain't enjoying that...You want to interpret, okay...
 
Big Ben Foster said:
For all our current faults, the in-game management and substitutions have improved tremendously since ETH was sacked. Obviously there's still room for improvement, but still, a breath of fresh air.
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I'm struggling with this. His in-game management is really good. It doesn't always come off, but he often manages to change momentum and sometimes results with his subs and adaptions.

Only to start with the same nonsense in the next match so that he has to fix it during the game again
 
Shark said:
When has this actually become a reality, ever? All I've ever seen are teams improving at the end of a season, and bringing that energy into a new season. Ending a season in which we're losing and playing like dog shit nearly every week isn't going to deliver any long term gain. At this stage we should be showing improvement but we're heading backwards on the pitch.
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Yep, more often than not it hasn't benefitted us to write off a season. We're basically Sisyphus pushing the rock up the hill hoping it'll be plain sailing once we get over the hill. But from Moyes to Ten Hag the bastard always rools back down and straight over us. :lol:

I'm still reserving judgement on Amorim but it is concerning that we still haven't seen much improvement thus far, arguably the opposite if anything.
 
Fooza said:
Maybe just maybe, when people are here suggesting Amorim should improve things or work with what he's got, there's a more complex reasons why he isn't which is being discussed.

Oh wait you ain't enjoying that...You want to interpret, okay...
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The actual discussion, with nuanced takes on both sides? Yes, I actually am enjoying that, otherwise I wouldn't bother trying to keep up with this thread.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
Like you I want to see what he does in the summer and how pre-season works. The fans are letting the media fuel their panic. We know the club needs rebuilding in a lot of ways from top to bottom. Think some would quite happily keep the players we have and just change the manager, even though some of those players didn't work out the ETH either. It is as though the fans didn't bother listening to what he said when he first came in about it will be painful.
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We've just spent £600m bring the majority of these guys in and the club is skint. So most if not all of the players we have right now will be here next season.
 
JPRouve said:
No, we need to stop that nonsense. We can judge Amorim on how things have evolved since early November, that's a 3 months body of work. Now to me it's not enough to take any important decisions on his future or the future of the team but there is nothing that prevents anyone from judging that period and there is of course even less reason to not judge how his work evolves between now and the end of the season 7-8 months is enough to judge a manager.

That's where I have problem, there are too many terrible excuses and opinions that come from fans and the club. A manager should be judged constantly and it should not be based on whether he signed players or not, it can be a mitigating factor but it shouldn't be an argument for a blank slate or for people pretending that they don't think and "can't judge". Being patient is judging things honestly and offering the benefit of time, it's not pretending that you don't observe and draw opinions based on these observations.
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A sensible opinion amongst a sea of the same old ''give him a summer window and till Xmas next season and see how he's doing.''
 
stevoc said:
We've just spent £600m bring the majority of these guys in and the club is skint. So most if not all of the players we have right now will be here next season.
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Yup, this is the 2000lb gorilla in the room at the moment. With smart recruitment and player sales, we can make some incremental improvements to the squad this summer, but there will be no overhaul as some fans are expecting.
 
Remember those days when we all clamour for the Young attacking manager?

Eth won the league with Ajax, showed some good attacking football, comes to us and becomes a schadenfreude. Happens too often in the past 10 years.

There's really no guarantee Amorim can handle the pressure. He won in Portugal, which is a different weight class compared to the EPL where most team can field a squad better than anything Portugal League has to offer.
 
I think we did the right thing in appointing Amorim as soon as possible, rather than waiting for the Summer. A lot of opinions here are that we should have waited to give him the summer to implement his system. I don’t think that would have been nearly enough time to get him to know the players, and evaluate tactics. Now he do have that time, and he will know going into the Summer what needs to get it done. This season was already a near write-off when he joined.

Going back to what Ragnick said, we need open heart surgery, and that is not done over a short Summer where most of the training is for fitness, not tactics. Remember when Ten Hag joined? He tried to play modern football, and we got destroyed in the first few games. He changed back to Ole ball, and we did alright. Issue is that Ole ball can easily deliver good results, but not great. We need to get on a path towards greatness. Amorim seems to want to do the hard work to get us there. But we will need to give him and the system time.
 
Sky1981 said:
Remember those days when we all clamour for the Young attacking manager?

Eth won the league with Ajax, showed some good attacking football, comes to us and becomes a schadenfreude. Happens too often in the past 10 years.

There's really no guarantee Amorim can handle the pressure. He won in Portugal, which is a different weight class compared to the EPL where most team can field a squad better than anything Portugal League has to offer.
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No one is questioning whether Slot can handle the pressure, and look where he's come from. Liverpool hired Klopp, stuck to his principles, did really good recruitment to his style, and now Slot's seamlessly come in and it's made his job easier (even though he's slightly different to Klopp)

We were hoping for footballing people, we got INEOS who brought them in, they just as important as Amorim to get it right. Recruitment and philosophy wise is massive, only way we'll succeed with Amorim, or any manager is that they get it right. The question is, can the footballing people at the top handle the pressure too
 
JPRouve said:
Every single manager is supposed to try and draf up the level of his squad and supposedly top managers are even more supposed to do it. Otherwise we are just talking about glorified personal shoppers.
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Bingo. If Amorim is to succeed, he is to succeed with this squad.

Or to put it more precisely, he needs to improve the level of the team incrementally by managing, with the necessary help of improvements through squad building. Buying a whole new squad or large parts of it is just not a thing, at least not short to medium term.
If his is reasonably successful short term (within realistic expectations taking the status quo of the squad into account), he can then be more successful long term as the squad is improved by and by.

And then, maybe, after like 5 years you can suddenly say, oh ok this is now a completely different team also in terms of personnel, it's Amorim's team. That's what is was like with Klopp. His biggest successes (in terms of trophies) only came after massive reshaping/improvement of the squad, but the way to there was incremental, steady success and improvement of the present squad, not "suffering" while "performing open heart surgery".
 
Fooza said:
No one is questioning whether Slot can handle the pressure, and look where he's come from. Liverpool hired Klopp, stuck to his principles, did really good recruitment to his style, and now Slot's seamlessly come in and it's made his job easier (even though he's slightly different to Klopp)

We were hoping for footballing people, we got INEOS who brought them in, they just as important as Amorim to get it right. Recruitment and philosophy wise is massive, only way we'll succeed with Amorim, or any manager is that they get it right. The question is, can the footballing people at the top handle the pressure too
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They dont fill me with confidence. They bought Zirkzee after all and dithered with ETH

And Amorim is a very risky appointment. His 343 is rather different and if it doesnt work we'll be left with a very unorthodox squad composition.

They (imho) should just set 4321 or whatever the most common cookie cutter formation and pick the best manager available that plays similar formation. Even if he fails the next manager dont have to start from scratch again. That and buy the players that suits the main tactics.
 
Does anyone know if our reserves / academy teams have started adopting a system similar to Amorim's, or are they doing their own thing?
 
crossy1686 said:
You mean like Ten Hag's did? So people keep saying it's going to be a massive mistake but what people aren't realising is that this system that is intended to be the salve to the high press styles of Pep-esque systems is here to stay. Look at Inter and look where they got in the last couple of years, look at Sporting, both have undone the high press, look at us against the better sides in the league who play this way.

If we do fire Amorim at any point, you will see us linked with similar managers like Inzaghi. We're not all of a sudden going to change to a manager that has a totally different system after recruiting a squad that is built to dismantle the high intensity systems that have dominated football for the last 10 years or more.
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You have no evidence that this is true. You're guessing.
 
The league is a right off now anyway, the team can't finish in the top 8 for the European spots, so all of the teams effort should be put into the FA Cup and Europa League. The league should be used mainly to improve the players as a group and not worry too much about the results.

The main aim should be to win one of the 2 cups we are still in and qualify for Europe, mainly the Europa League as that is CL qualification.

People expecting this group of useless players to get better instantly is just silly, they couldn't even perform in other systems that were used for ages, why do people then expect them to automatically adapt to a completely different system so quick?

I find it embarrassing and knee jerk that people are already questioning the new manager, when he himself said this is going to take a long time to sort out.

We are through to the next round of the EL after finishing 3rd, avoiding more games, through the FA Cup after beating two Premier League teams, one being 2nd placed Arsenal. While Liverpool, Man City, Newcastle etc continue to get drawn against teams outside the Premier League. We have a record of 6 wins in the last 8 (Arsenal draw is still a win on pens).

People need to calm down and look at the bigger picture and give Amorim time.
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
The league is a right off now anyway, the team can't finish in the top 8 for the European spots, so all of the teams effort should be put into the FA Cup and Europa League. The league should be used mainly to improve the players as a group and not worry too much about the results.

The main aim should be to win one of the 2 cups we are still in and qualify for Europe, mainly the Europa League as that is CL qualification.

People expecting this group of useless players to get better instantly is just silly, they couldn't even perform in other systems that were used for ages, why do people then expect them to automatically adapt to a completely different system so quick?

I find it embarrassing and knee jerk that people are already questioning the new manager, when he himself said this is going to take a long time to sort out.

We are through to the next round of the EL after finishing 3rd, avoiding more games, through the FA Cup after beating two Premier League teams, one being 2nd placed Arsenal. While Liverpool, Man City, Newcastle etc continue to get drawn against teams outside the Premier League. We have a record of 6 wins in the last 8 (Arsenal draw is still a win on pens).

People need to calm down and look at the bigger picture and give Amorim time.
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Why should we collectively agree with the manager's opinion that it would take a while for the team to start playing better? Manchester United should not be in 13th with the quality of players we've got. At least there should be a new manager bounce, Amorim gave us none. RVN beat this same Leicester convincingly as interim coach, now Amorim bitterly struggled to win in that manner. It's not looking positive in any way, it's retrogression and we must halt it ASAP. The fact we've changed many coaches in a short time is not a guarantee that we've had the right one, we keep making the changes until we strike gold. I imagine Iraola at United, we definitely won't be in 13th now and we'll be playing good football. Amorim is proving to be too stubborn and rigid for my liking, this is Manchester United not sporting CP.
 
Swedish_Plumber said:
People don’t have the patience mate. They’re willing to see yet another managers head roll in the stubborn belief that someone is out there that can actually get this group of players where we ‘belong’.
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I think it would be much easier to be patient if it was someone like Klopp or Pep or Ancelotti who had taken over. Amorim does not have enough presence in the game to get enough buy-in.
 
Amorim obviously deserves a preseason and a summer transfer window before he can be properly judged, but already I'm seeing some of the frustrating traits that characterised the last months of Ten Hag's era. Trying to fit square pegs in round holes, playing players out of position when it's clear it's not working, appearing to have "undroppables".

I know he's hamstrung by the paucity of the squad and the options available to him, but he surely can see that Dalot is a non entity at left wing back?! Yet he continues to pick him there, even when the club went out and bought him a 30 million quid left wing back in January!

Madness
 
JPRouve said:
No, we need to stop that nonsense. We can judge Amorim on how things have evolved since early November, that's a 3 months body of work. Now to me it's not enough to take any important decisions on his future or the future of the team but there is nothing that prevents anyone from judging that period and there is of course even less reason to not judge how his work evolves between now and the end of the season 7-8 months is enough to judge a manager.

That's where I have problem, there are too many terrible excuses and opinions that come from fans and the club. A manager should be judged constantly and it should not be based on whether he signed players or not, it can be a mitigating factor but it shouldn't be an argument for a blank slate or for people pretending that they don't think and "can't judge". Being patient is judging things honestly and offering the benefit of time, it's not pretending that you don't observe and draw opinions based on these observations.
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Agreed entirely. It's not the 1980s when Fergie got brought in anymore. The financial stakes are much higher. Arteta and Klopp showed enough early on that Arsenal and Liverpool could believe in their projects and back them through the mediocre starts. Amorim's not done that yet but he still has the rest of the season to show it.
 
Swedish_Plumber said:
People don’t have the patience mate. They’re willing to see yet another managers head roll in the stubborn belief that someone is out there that can actually get this group of players where we ‘belong’.
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Why should we be patient? Seemingly every other new manager seems to be getting a tune out of their players in relatively shorter time than us without spending nearly as much money as we do. Its always Manchester United managers that need £200m per summer and a full squad of their own handpicked players to look half decent. I'm sick of it.

Not asking him to have us contending for top 4 immediately but don't make us look like relegation battlers and do the basic things right. These players, as limited as they are, are for sure better than a relegation threatened team.
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
I find it embarrassing and knee jerk that people are already questioning the new manager, when he himself said this is going to take a long time to sort out.
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Questioning is off limits? Not even talking about the sack or losing faith, but questioning decisions altogether? Bit extreme there...
 
Dannn411 said:
Why should we be patient? Seemingly every other new manager seems to be getting a tune out of their players in relatively shorter time than us without spending nearly as much money as we do. Its always Manchester United managers that need £200m per summer and a full squad of their own handpicked players to look half decent. I'm sick of it.

Not asking him to have us contending for top 4 immediately but don't make us look like relegation battlers and do the basic things right. These players, as limited as they are, are for sure better than a relegation threatened team.
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The team has won 6 of the last 8 games, sometimes you can't have everything all at once in regards to wins and good performances unfortunately.
 
Oscar Bonavena said:
Amorim obviously deserves a preseason and a summer transfer window before he can be properly judged, but already I'm seeing some of the frustrating traits that characterised the last months of Ten Hag's era. Trying to fit square pegs in round holes, playing players out of position when it's clear it's not working, appearing to have "undroppables".

I know he's hamstrung by the paucity of the squad and the options available to him, but he surely can see that Dalot is a non entity at left wing back?! Yet he continues to pick him there, even when the club went out and bought him a 30 million quid left wing back in January!

Madness
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I'm very much in the pro-Amorim camp, but I will say that the likes of Dalot and Bruno remain undroppable in the next season (even if they are performing at current levels), then I will quickly begin to lose faith.
 
I think the most worrying part is, we got 14 games to go, and only 3 look winnable. I think we've done enough points to be safe but we might be looking at finishing between 13-16. That's a new low and I know Amorim is not responsible for the mess that got us here but that finish will be on his record.
 
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