Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach | Thread locked during matches

DJ_21 said:
Is it not best that we started of rubbish with this manager as we can now only get better. Under previous managers we started of good and went worse which obviously resulted in them getting sacked. Now it’s the other way around so let’s have faith.
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You would be hard pressed to cite managers who went on to succeed at major clubs following a “rubbish” start, unfortunately.

By and large, rubbish start leads to a rubbish rest-of-it, with very few significant deviations from a historical perspective. :(

Even those who oversaw a time-consuming and painstaking rebuild provided an initial bounce, a silver lining of sorts, something you could rally the troops around...
  • Alex Ferguson: from 1.00 point-per-game in the league under Ron Atkinson to 1.48 points-per-game for the rest of the season with a 27.5% loss rate.
  • Mikel Arteta: from 1.23 points-per-game in the league under Unai Emery to 1.48 points-per-game for the rest of the season with a 23.8% loss rate.
  • Rubén Amorim: from 1.23 points-per-game in the league under Erik Ten Hag to 1.12 points-per-game thus far with a 50% loss rate.
It's not even about underwhelming results per se. You have to see something, like making a bad situation better due to tactical adroitness, getting players to perform at a higher level than their median, being hard to contain as things click from time to time. For the most part, we are seeing nothing at all, just a pit of despair. There has to be some sort of gave-and-take dynamic for us to have faith in the head coach. It shouldn't be absolute and unshaking when there are warning signs. Affording the head coach time, aligning the club per their vision and essentially giving them a free pass because we need to give someone time can be a folly, and a way of declining further if it's not the right person.

While I don't envy Berrada, Wilcox et al for having to make difficult decisions, that is their remit and this summer offers us another chance to make a fresh start (with regard to the sporting director and head coaches positions in particular). Much like the summer gone by, where we failed to seize the opportunity with both hands and sealed the fate of this season before the ball had even been kicked. The higher-ups need to weight up all pros and cons, explore different possibilities, and think long and hard about the direction we want to go in. Because going in the wrong direction will have profound repercussions, now more than ever. No one will think less of them for going in a different direction, if that decision is ultimately vindicated.
 
He shit and the squad is too most likely it's not a great mix, we need at least one of these things to be great to even have a chance and they're not, out of the 2 i think the squad is underperforming based on nothing but my own opinion
 
Play 3 CBs if you have those available to carry the ball, press high and play decisive passes. If you don't - which we don't - playing 3 defensive CBs is absolutely killing us.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
Put simply, results aside, the manner in which we play is horrendous. It’s so risk adverse and unadventurous.

Europa has become live or die for him I feel.
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Nah. As soon as we sign these wingers to play at wing back we’ll become swashbuckling in attack and he’ll stop playing the player he picks every single week.
 
Banana Republic said:
Crashing out of the Europa league and the likelihood of losing most of our remaining league fixtures, will put Amorim’s tenure in the balance.
The club will have to decide either to stick with him and hope that bringing in two or three decent players will help turn fortunes around, or cut their losses now and go for a new broom.
It’s looking 50/50 that he’ll be sacked at the end of the season.
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I don’t see us winning another game this season. We’ve beaten lesser teams by more luck than good management. Confidence looks worse every game.
He will see out the season but should be sacked after. He hasn’t shown anything to warrant staying and commencing a rebuild. Another ETH situation but without a trophy.
 
Genuinely it's just stubbornness to keep a 3 man backline when you are chasing a game. At least should put casemiro in as one of them as he doesn't get a nose bleed at the half way line
 
I like the man and thought he'd be a success. Can talk a good game and was able to identify our issues pretty quickly. However, it'd tough to support him if we crash out of the Europa league too with two more tame performances. You cannot keep a manager just based on hope. He/She has to show something that warrants putting your faith in them. So far he there is no indication either from the performances or the results that he has it in him to turn this around.

I firmly believe that the squad is shit, an embarrassment for a top club, forget one that claims to be the biggest in the world. Though, I don't agree that the performances and the results under him accurately reflect the quality of the squad available to him. He hasn't been able to find a tune out of them and that's solely on him. No one was expecting any miracles from him, but it is also not wise to accept whatever he has served up so far. On top, his new line "I don't know. If I knew I'd change it" is not very encouraging. You don't get any confidence when you hear him utter those words, and it has been a constant theme with him off late.

I am desperate for him to turn this around and succeed. It's getting harder and harder to make a case in his favor, though.
 
Drainy said:
Casemiro as the middle centre back is an interesting idea when chasing a game
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It's a terrible idea as he is really erratic with his passing. He keeps giving the ball away as a shield, imagine him giving it away as the last line of defense.
 
Can talk the talk but can't walk the walk, stubborn as a mule, refuses to change from his 3 center backs, don't think it will work in premier league with intensity of it. Wouldnt trust Amorim rebuilding a snowman, never mind this man United squad.
 
He has been absolutely horrendous and the football he has served up even worse.
 
So who should have been selected as United manager after Ten Hag then? Not a rhetorical question, I don`t post a lot and didn`t keep up with all the developments after Ten Hag got the sack.
I don`t think there`s any board members on here but surely some leaks got out about who was being considered and why Amorim was chosen. I find it hard to believe after all the managers that Amorim will not be given at least a couple of seasons.
 
If they sack him & that’s a big IF, I’m done with this club & just taking it in my stride, couldn’t care less for a trophy. Clear INEOS don’t know what they’re doing, they’ve set him up to fail. What did they expect bringing him in mid-season.
 
UnitedSofa said:
If they sack him & that’s a big IF, I’m done with this club & just taking it in my stride, couldn’t care less for a trophy. Clear INEOS don’t know what they’re doing, they’ve set him up to fail. What did they expect bringing him in mid-season.
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So you are only a fan due to loyalty to the manager?
 
For Amorin's system to work, i genuinely think we need 7 new starting players.

None of these lot look capable.

The only role specific fit's i see in this squad is (and not necessarily as a starting option)
Ugarte - DM
Yoro - RCB
Martinez - LCB
De Ligt - CB
Zirkzee - No 10
Mount - No 10
Dorgu - LWB
Hojlund - ST
Amad - No 10
Bruno - No 10
Maz - RCB

While good players, a lot just do not fit this style of play.

We are constantly forced to play players in roles with a style of play that they just cannot do.

Maz and Dalot - Half decent full backs. Terrible Wing Backs. Maz could be a RCB, but I don't see a role for Dalot at all in this formation
Bruno as a DM - Just not good enough there. Better forward
Garnacho - No 10. Just not happening for him - he's a wide direct winger.
Mainoo - Can't seem to hit form as a DM. Could work as a 10 with some patience but he's more a traditional CM than a DM or AM specific

The formation and logic of Amorin can't be questioned - it IS a formation that CAN work. At Sporting, it took time and players adapted to new roles and it worked.

We have been trying these players in these positions for ages now - and we look a worse team for it. The players we have just simply CANNOT adapt to the role specifics that Amorin wants. I suspect Amorin is the most frustrated man on the planet right now, he's took this job and probably made the assumption that some of these players would adapt and hit the ground running with his philosophy. The exact opposite has happened.

We look like the worst team in the league by a distance. It's completely justified too. We are horrible to watch and must be so easy to play against
 
The decision to loan out two attacking players and bring in no replacements was an absolutely bizarre decision.

ryansgirl said:
So who should have been selected as United manager after Ten Hag then? Not a rhetorical question, I don`t post a lot and didn`t keep up with all the developments after Ten Hag got the sack.
I don`t think there`s any board members on here but surely some leaks got out about who was being considered and why Amorim was chosen. I find it hard to believe after all the managers that Amorim will not be given at least a couple of seasons.
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It should have been a short term appointment until the end of the season then we should have gone for Amorim. Even keeping Ruud would have made sense.
 
We've seen these players under a manager with high demands like Ralf that want to play a certain way. They literally downed tools and the fans blamed Ralf more than the players. The next two managers had to play the way the players wanted to get them to buy in. Sit deep and counter attack and forego the midfield. They achieved feck all with that style. No an Fa cup and second in the league without really challenging aren't impressive achievements and they both proved to be unsustainable anyways. We need that open heart surgery, so many of our players are weak and stupid. There was a sequence yesterday where as soon as Bruno or Casemiro got the ball they hoofed it upfield I want to say 7-8 times in a row. They guys have no sense of build up play or game management. Give Amorim time to get some good players in and then judge him next season when he has a good striker, keeper and midfielder. We are going nowhere with this group of players under any manager.
 
lsd said:
He has been absolutely horrendous and the football he has served up even worse.
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But is it possible to play what was United`s signature win in style with attacking football now? Even back with David Moyes there was tinkering with what had been so successful for us - I have very clear memories of long balls being over played and of course the hideous crossing policy for the sake of crossing.

With the present squad we don`t have the quality for back to the future Manchester United football. I agree it`s unpleasant seeing what the team are doing a lot of the time but maybe we have to go through this to find less predictable ways of playing and formations that acknowledge the gaps in our squad. I remember very clearly Alex Ferguson listening to supporters chant `Fergie Out! and dismiss him as causing United to play boring football.
 
Desert Eagle said:
We've seen these players under a manager with high demands like Ralf that want to play a certain way. They literally downed tools and the fans blamed Ralf more than the players. The next two managers had to play the way the players wanted to get them to buy in. Sit deep and counter attack and forego the midfield. They achieved feck all with that style. No an Fa cup and second in the league without really challenging aren't impressive achievements and they both proved to be unsustainable anyways. We need that open heart surgery, so many of our players are weak and stupid. There was a sequence yesterday where as soon as Bruno or Casemiro got the ball they hoofed it upfield I want to say 7-8 times in a row. They guys have no sense of build up play or game management. Give Amorim time to get some good players in and then judge him next season when he has a good striker, keeper and midfielder. We are going nowhere with this group of players under any manager.
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How many of our current squad?
 
This is becoming a rinse and repeat of the ETH thread. The same circular discussions about formations, transfers, injuries, time etc etc..

He did warn that the players and the club must suffer.. So I'm not sure why people are so bent out of shape about the performances.

If these bunch of gowls could defend set pieces they'd probably only have conceded about 4 goals since he took over.
 
I dont understand how long it takes to see improvement in the play, Arne slot has improved the Liverpool team with minimum investment within no time. If you've got it, you got it. We need a better manager
 
Desert Eagle said:
We've seen these players under a manager with high demands like Ralf that want to play a certain way. They literally downed tools and the fans blamed Ralf more than the players. The next two managers had to play the way the players wanted to get them to buy in. Sit deep and counter attack and forego the midfield. They achieved feck all with that style. No an Fa cup and second in the league without really challenging aren't impressive achievements and they both proved to be unsustainable anyways. We need that open heart surgery, so many of our players are weak and stupid. There was a sequence yesterday where as soon as Bruno or Casemiro got the ball they hoofed it upfield I want to say 7-8 times in a row. They guys have no sense of build up play or game management. Give Amorim time to get some good players in and then judge him next season when he has a good striker, keeper and midfielder. We are going nowhere with this group of players under any manager.
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Bro, the thousandth time. This is NOT THE SAME TEAM.
 
KStandBarmyArmy1993 said:
The decision to loan out two attacking players and bring in no replacements was an absolutely bizarre decision.
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In the short term, yes. Would have made no difference with our league position overall though. If you ask me, Zirkzee is as good as Rashford if not better.

Had they stayed, would they have made a big difference towards getting us more money for transfers? I doubt it.

Players going on loan is a "proof of concept" towards buyers that they can work at other clubs imo.
 
Remember the geese said:
We haven't seen Amorim's system with players who all fit the correct profiles. He's making do. We will acquire several players in the summer, who will fit like a glove. This will help greatly.
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This is one of the major issues with the idea that Amorim needs to be given 1 or more transfer windows before he can be fairly judged. The argument assumes that the transfer windows will be very good. Usually it's an implicit assumption, but in this post it's stated outright: the new players will "fit like a glove."

There is nothing in United's track record over the last decade to suggest that they will make multiple signings that fit like a glove. What's most likely is that the summer transfer window ranges from 'inadequate' to 'passable.' So what then?
 
The problem with Amorim is that he thinks like he is at Sporting. With that team it made absolute sense to stick to what they were doing and not to pivot or do things differently. If they suck to the principals then they would win. The prem is a whole different beast. Unless you are Prime Barca or Real or the Man Utd of old you cant just play the way you want. You have to adapt. Even Pep has evolved over his time in the Prem. Yes the foundations of his philosophy is always there but he has changed because of the way the Prem is. For example Haaland as a pivot striker after many years of playing a false 9. He pushed Stones into midfield especially in possession moving from 4-3-3 to a more 3-2-5. And on and on. Pep has tweaked and evolved numerous times. Man City is failing this year and lots of people are saying that his system no longer works but I can guarantee he is figuring out how to evolve his tactics yet again. If Amorim is so rigid to his philosophy then he will fail. You're not in Kansas anymore Dorothy.
 
As I mentioned after the Ipswich game, given the absolute dogshite he is putting us through with his excessive rigidity, my expectations from him are sky high next season. We better be up there amongst the best sides in the country next season. If we start poorly, he should instantly be fired. The only reason he has left to hold on to for us being as bad as this is that he has not had enough time to drill the players and hasn't had a summer window yet. Once he gets both this summer, all bets are off. I want to see a 360 degree turnaround from Matchday 1 next season and my bare minimum expectation from him is top 4 next season. Only then will the crap we're having to endure right now be justifiable.
 
Dannn411 said:
As I mentioned after the Ipswich game, given the absolute dogshite he is putting us through with his excessive rigidity, my expectations from him are sky high next season. We better be up there amongst the best sides in the country next season. If we start poorly, he should instantly be fired. The only reason he has left to hold on to for us being as bad as this is that he has not had enough time to drill the players and hasn't had a summer window yet. Once he gets both this summer, all bets are off. I want to see a 360 degree turnaround from Matchday 1 next season and my bare minimum expectation from him is top 4 next season. Only then will the crap we're having to endure right now be justifiable.
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I would agree but only if he is backed in the summer. If we get him only one or two late summer panic buys I'll have more patience with him. And I fully expect this to happen.
 
Shite manager. Did no one question his temperament and attitude when he jumped on a plane to talk with West Ham? Complete ideologue who is out of his depth.
 
MUEricTheKing said:
Have everyone forgot that we won the FA Cup last season!!!!!
Amorim is the worst manager post Sir Alex.
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Forget the FACup, more pertinent is our downward trajectory in the league since Ole was sacked (bar ETH first season which now seems an anomaly). This is why I argued at the time that ETH had over achieved in his first season, and is a fairer representation of where this team is at. It’s not a pretty picture.
 
Godfather said:
I would agree but only if he is backed in the summer. If we get him only one or two late summer panic buys I'll have more patience with him. And I fully expect this to happen.
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If he's backed that means he REALLY has to hit the ground running.
 
Dannn411 said:
As I mentioned after the Ipswich game, given the absolute dogshite he is putting us through with his excessive rigidity, my expectations from him are sky high next season. We better be up there amongst the best sides in the country next season. If we start poorly, he should instantly be fired. The only reason he has left to hold on to for us being as bad as this is that he has not had enough time to drill the players and hasn't had a summer window yet. Once he gets both this summer, all bets are off. I want to see a 360 degree turnaround from Matchday 1 next season and my bare minimum expectation from him is top 4 next season. Only then will the crap we're having to endure right now be justifiable.
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Sounds great but then it becomes ETH scenario mk2. We knew he wasn’t the man to take us forward and it was a huge mistake. We are going to make the same mistake but this time spending very precious money on players for a system that won’t work long term in the PL, along with selling or loaning players that will work in traditional 4231/433 set ups.
We don’t have the financial flexibility to support Amorim’s system. Especially when he’s not good enough for the PL.
 
hellhunter said:
How many of our current squad?
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Dalot, Fernandes, Lindelof, Garnacho, Maguire. Our striker and keeper replacements are also clearly shit. That's more than half the team.
The Mitcher said:
Bro, the thousandth time. This is NOT THE SAME TEAM.
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acnumber9 said:
Which players? How many of them played yesterday?
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You do realise the team was better then than now? We've downgraded from what was already a group of pleyers that weren't good enough.
 
acnumber9 said:
Yes we have. He’s not making do because he’s being completely inflexible. A manager who doesn’t change under any circumstance isn’t a good manager. It’s pure hubris.
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Spot on.

In cup games especially, he has to do whatever it takes to get us through to the next round.
 
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