And yet here you are, posting on the Caf. Absolute legend.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach | Thread locked during matches
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
Tune should have been Vicki Sue Robinson's "Turn The Beat Around", instead. Fair play, though.
I love it.
I remember my first beer
This is the best post I've seen on the Caf and should be re-posted by everyone if we ever win a league title again.
You can’t bate those holiday yippers!
Top post. Can imagine him posting about United as his musses gives birth some day
Don’t jinx it mate !
How's the head today?
To the Frenkie thread!
What you described is exactly what Amad or Garnacho are very good at. Hence why I said we should use this inverted wingback to allow them to express themselves but also remove Amad/Garnacho defensive responsibility as wingback.
Literally, ever since Amorim moved Garnacho on the right and when Amorim deployed the inverted right wingback role, we’ve been much better as a team. The purpose of this right inverted wingback is to provide more balance for the team (not to offer more individual attacking threat to the team) and allowing our natural winger such as Garnacho/Amad to give them more freedom and express what they are good at. Hence why I said it compliments Garnacho/Amad’s strength, it doesn’t change Amorim’s system, and it compliments our limited budget to allow us to concentrate other areas especially focus on the backbone of the team.
You make assumption and you judge people if they don’t have the same view as your means they don’t watch the game, which clearly non-sense. You need to drop that attitude of yours and start to agree to disagree with different opinion not making non-sense assumption.
The Leicester game was the first time it’s been heard in such a loud manner I guess. I hadn’t heard it like that before.
Geeet-iiiiinnnnnnnWe are the devils
This doesn’t make any sense. Whether the WBs are inverted or not, both the WBs and the 10s still have attacking responsibilities in possession and defensive responsibilities out of possession.
And you still haven’t addressed the fact that even when “inverted”, Dalot and Mazaraoui still regularly get in to attacking positions, and they are not very effective or productive in those positions.
You should also compare Dorgu’s heat map v Sociedad versus Dalot’s. The positions they take up are remarkably similar despite what you say about one being inverted and one not.
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National Level-tier post
The words of the prophets are written on the...Metrolink walls?
I never say they don’t have those responsibilities. Each of them have attacking/defensive responsibilities but WBs, inverted WB and 10s have different kind of attacking and defensive responsibilities.
You mentioned Quenda or attacking wingback’s attacking ability: ‘’their ability to change the dynamic of a team’s ability to attack. For example, the ability to beat a man can change the dynamic of a teams’s attack and open up an opposing team in a way that might not be reflected by direct assists. ‘’
My response is that those attacking wingback’s attacking abilities you mentioned are what Garnacho and Amad are good at. Due to those attacking abilities, Garnacho and Amad fits Amorim’s wingback’s attacking abilities at sporting. But I don’t see them fit as Amorim’s wingback’s defensive ability because Amorim wants his wingback to join the backline to form back five during defensive transition and IMO this is not something Garnacho and Amad are good at. That’s why I suggested to play inverted wingback so we can play Garnacho or Amad as wide forward so they can use those wingback attacking abilities (that’s what I meant by ‘’to express themselves’’) without forcing them to defend like wingback ‘’forming back five’’ (that’s what I meant by ‘’removing their defensive responsibility as wingback’’).
I have addressed this in best possible way for you to understand by:
- Telling you that as inverted wingback, their attacking responsibility become less in comparison to attacking wingback (again, less or more don’t mean they don’t have responsibility in attack). But they primary will provide balance for the team and allowing our natural winger such as Garnacho/Amad to give them more freedom and express what they are good at. Hence why I said it compliments Garnacho/Amad’s strength, it doesn’t change Amorim’s system, and it compliments our limited budget to allow us to concentrate other areas especially focus on the backbone of the team.
- And included the structure of how this inverted wingback operates (which I mentioned this last week).
GK
Inverted RWB - RCB - CB - LCB - LWB
Deep-playmaker - box-to-box
Wide forward - Inside forward
Striker
Attacking transition:
GK
RCB - CB - LCB
Inverted RWB - Deep-playmaker - box-to-box
Wide forward - Inside forward - LWB
Striker
During defensive transition, they have the similar positions because they both operate similar like full back join the backline to form back five, which I have mentioned this to you last week.
During attacking transition, they have different position and different responsibility. Dorgu occupied more in the final third zone, while Dalot occupied more in the between, which exactly what I described about the inverted wingback has less attacking responsibility than the attacking wingback and they provide more balance.
Their heat maps fit the description of what I demonstrated in their role and the attacking and defensive structure.
Which one are you referring to?
stop being inappropriate
I was sure you had left the caf building
This guy gets the best stuff.
I didn't even make the bloody joke in the first place!
I know what you're like I have to keep an eye on you
Nah I'm still here, I was on a little break due to a family bereavement x
Sorry for your lossI know what you're like I have to keep an eye on you
Nah I'm still here, I was on a little break due to a family bereavement x
I know what you're like I have to keep an eye on you
You're a wise person
Seriously though, you have my sincere condolences
You're a wise person
Seriously though, you have my sincere condolences
Thanks
I never say they don’t have those responsibilities. Each of them have attacking/defensive responsibilities but WBs, inverted WB and 10s have different kind of attacking and defensive responsibilities.
You mentioned Quenda or attacking wingback’s attacking ability: ‘’their ability to change the dynamic of a team’s ability to attack. For example, the ability to beat a man can change the dynamic of a teams’s attack and open up an opposing team in a way that might not be reflected by direct assists. ‘’
My response is that those attacking wingback’s attacking abilities you mentioned are what Garnacho and Amad are good at. Due to those attacking abilities, Garnacho and Amad fits Amorim’s wingback’s attacking abilities at sporting. But I don’t see them fit as Amorim’s wingback’s defensive ability because Amorim wants his wingback to join the backline to form back five during defensive transition and IMO this is not something Garnacho and Amad are good at. That’s why I suggested to play inverted wingback so we can play Garnacho or Amad as wide forward so they can use those wingback attacking abilities (that’s what I meant by ‘’to express themselves’’) without forcing them to defend like wingback ‘’forming back five’’ (that’s what I meant by ‘’removing their defensive responsibility as wingback’’).
I have addressed this in best possible way for you to understand by:
Defensive transition:
- Telling you that as inverted wingback, their attacking responsibility become less in comparison to attacking wingback (again, less or more don’t mean they don’t have responsibility in attack). But they primary will provide balance for the team and allowing our natural winger such as Garnacho/Amad to give them more freedom and express what they are good at. Hence why I said it compliments Garnacho/Amad’s strength, it doesn’t change Amorim’s system, and it compliments our limited budget to allow us to concentrate other areas especially focus on the backbone of the team.
- And included the structure of how this inverted wingback operates (which I mentioned this last week).
GK
Inverted RWB - RCB - CB - LCB - LWB
Deep-playmaker - box-to-box
Wide forward - Inside forward
Striker
Attacking transition:
GK
RCB - CB - LCB
Inverted RWB - Deep-playmaker - box-to-box
Wide forward - Inside forward - LWB
Striker
During defensive transition, they have the similar positions because they both operate similar like full back join the backline to form back five, which I have mentioned this to you last week.
During attacking transition, they have different position and different responsibility. Dorgu occupied more in the final third zone, while Dalot occupied more in the between, which exactly what I described about the inverted wingback has less attacking responsibility than the attacking wingback and they provide more balance.
Their heat maps fit the description of what I demonstrated in their role and the attacking and defensive structure.
That’s an awful lot of words to still not address my main point, which is that Dalot and Mazaraoui’s quality on the ball when in possession is not good enough. If you can’t see how that limits us as a team then I’m not sure how I can help you.
As for those heat maps - thanks. Really helps illustrate my point. The difference between them are negligible, except for the fact that with new personnel at RWB would have a bit more attacking thrust on that flank. Which is what we’ve very obviously been lacking.
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Mazarazaraoui passes better than Dalot, especially under pressure.
I agree those heat maps show little.
Neither player makes a great wing back, they lack the winger component.
Yep, he does, much more technical player. But our right side is still severely lacking in attacking impetus when Maz is playing there. There’s a reason Amorim has typically liked converting wingers to be his WBs. And I don’t think long term Amorim is going to abandon that idea and instead build our right side around having Maz or Dalot as largely ineffective “inverted WBs”.
I commit the sin, you get the punishment… I like this.I didn't even make the bloody joke in the first place!
That‘s how I operate. Come up with a prank, and convince someone else to execute it.
I get the satisfaction but not the punishment.
Too much explanation on WB or inverted WB. We just need a RWB who is good at going forward and be adequately good in defending which is exactly who we found in Dorgu. We just need another one on the right. Dalot has been here for a long time and he isn't good going forward or defending. Buy a new RWB over the summer, our attacking will instantly improve.
Exactly. Well said.
All depends on budget but yes, even just for cover we lack athleticism there. I think people are cottoning onto how much attacking importance the WBs have, they don't have to all be Neymar like wingers, but they have huge responsibility for overloads and putting balls into the box.
I will say I actually believe in Dalot as a RWB short to mid term in the absence of huge money to go and get someone like Frimpong. Even then, there's also a part of me that thinks there is a high probability having two extremely offensive WBs might work in the Bundesliga but won't work in the PL so having more generally well rounded players might actually be a better long term idea i.e. Dorgu/Dalot as much as people might dislike Dalot they have all the attributes to be very dependable in those roles.
If we got another more attacking WB it doesn’t necessarily mean he’d be playing every game. It would just give us more options on how we set up. There are lots of games where we expect to be on the front foot but struggle to break the opposition down, and in such games playing two more attacking WBs makes a lot of sense, or even just having a more attacking option to come off the bench and change a game. We’re desperately short of quality out wide who can do that. Against tougher opposition you can then still pick a more conservative line up.
I also don’t think it would be beyond us to find a WB that is more effective/productive in attack than Dalot, but is also well rounded and dependable enough to replace him. I really don’t see Dalot as all that dependable, because he is prone to brain farts in both attack and defence.
Yeah agreed, it's also why I want us to focus on CM. I feel like the dream is getting to a point where in tough games you put in Ugarte and then some else like him and move Bruno forwards, but in games where we should be dominant Bruno/Ugarte can be a good enough pair for now.
Re Dalot, sure, I don't think anyone thinks he's perfect but I think it will not be so easy to replace him without either spending big on someone we know can play the role or, what i think is more likely, going for another Dorgu like profile who will compete with him but not necessarily be immediately 'better'.