Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach | Thread locked during matches

stepic said:
If you want to already write off a 20 year old Dorgu after his first handful of games in the PL that’s up to you, but the point remains the wingbacks clearly get forward in attack, they are not defenders when we have the ball, so this ‘we’re playing with 5 defenders, we’re so defensive’ nonsense is just that… nonsense.
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Okay mate.
 
Raoul said:
We had 23 shots on goal to their 8. We had 6 on target to their 2. So all things, said we had far more chances than them, and if we had anything remotely better than Zirkzee or Hojlund, a few of them would've found the back of the net.
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How many of those shots were actual chances though, rather than speculative efforts because we couldn't break down Forest's low block?

We created a few chances, more than Forest no doubt, but it wasn't the Alamo or anything.
 
Raoul said:
We had 23 shots on goal to their 8. We had 6 on target to their 2. So all things, said we had far more chances than them, and if we had anything remotely better than Zirkzee or Hojlund, a few of them would've found the back of the net.
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XG of 1.6 according to my app which makes it about 0.07 xg per shot again these aren't good chances, I'll leave it at that, we aren't going to agree
 
pocco said:
Nuno knew we were stretching them across the pitch and were looking dangerous. Anybody with eyes could see what was happening. Our WBs and 10s were getting into great positions with plenty of space, they just made absolutely nothing of it as usual. He added a body into the back line to close the gaps.
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Exactly. Not sure how someone could say they were in control at that point in the game.
 
Raoul said:
We had 23 shots on goal to their 8. We had 6 on target to their 2. So all things, said we had far more chances than them, and if we had anything remotely better than Zirkzee or Hojlund, a few of them would've found the back of the net.
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This is without even mentioning the Maguire chance cleared off the line right at the end.

I think Forest defended fantastically well and deserve full credit for that but this idea people have cooked up that we "didn't lay a glove on them" is utter fecking nonsense. I only watched the last 25/30 minutes or so and even then we created multiple opportunities.

I understand that people are annoyed at another loss given the shite season we've had but honestly, given that Forest are a really strong side, the cynic in me was expecting the cautious optimism that I'd built up over the past few weeks to be utterly shattered tonight and it wasn't. I think we were good and, if we keep playing like that, we will move in the right direction under Amorim.
 
lsd said:
We passed about a lot yet created nothing of note. It's very much LVG
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LVG had two full seasons of building his team and just had the players passing sideways and recycling the ball to death playing with zero risk because he didn't like losing possession. The football became more boring the longer he was here.

We're shit right now but I don't think we didn't score today because we were playing too safe. We just don't have the quality to turn promising attacks into actual goals.

The result is the same, we score 0 goals.

But it's a bit early to say Amorim is trying to recreate LVG era of never passing the ball forward or trying to create a chance.
 
Mmm-Qatarian said:
This is without even mentioning the Maguire chance cleared off the line right at the end.

I think Forest defended fantastically well and deserve full credit for that but this idea people have cooked up that we "didn't lay a glove on them" is utter fecking nonsense. I only watched the last 25/30 minutes or so and even then we created multiple opportunities.

I understand that people are annoyed at another loss given the shite season we've had but honestly, given that Forest are a really strong side, the cynic in me was expecting the cautious optimism that I'd built up over the past few weeks to be utterly shattered tonight and it wasn't. I think we were good and, if we keep playing like that, we will move in the right direction under Amorim.
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Yep....forgot about that one. Its sad we have to rely on defenders to generate goals because our strikers are clearly not good enough.
 
The Hilton said:
How many of those shots were actual chances though, rather than speculative efforts because we couldn't break down Forest's low block?

We created a few chances, more than Forest no doubt, but it wasn't the Alamo or anything.
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We had a lot more legit chances than Forest. Putting them away is of course another issue. That won't change until after the summer window.
 
stepic said:
Because it allows us to play our wingbacks in attack.

Because it means 2 of our 3 CBs can also move forward, creating 2 triangles on either side of the pitch, knowing we have someone in there providing protection.

Look at what’s actually happening on the pitch instead of focusing on ‘5 defenders’.
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And it means we create more chances for our wingbacks than our attackers because the wingbacks are the overloads.

Its flawed, and unless the wingbacks are absolutely worldclass players in both attack and defence (they don't exist) than it's a system that will continue to fail in the premier league.

You just end up with jack of all trade players getting into good attacking positions but not being actually good enough to do anything about it, while you genuine attacking talents are marked out of the game.
 
Hopefully some genuine light at the end of the tunnel here, as we do look better, and he's not relented and changed his style to do it either.

It's promising, so please just get him some players in the summer as there's only so much he can be expected to do with most of this lot.
 
What’s happening is exactly what I feared when we first hired him: our attack is so piss poor that it often renders useless any decent team performance (like tonight) and then exposes bad performances.

It’s essentially the opposite of the Ole era where we’d play poorly as a team and still win 3-1 because Pogba/Bruno/Rashford/Martial/Greenwood/Cavani etc would bail us out with a brilliant moment. Now we don’t have a single player on the level of any of them (barring Bruno obviously still being here) that can produce that sort of magic, so even if the team plays well we still are locked in tight games win or lose.
 
With a decent striker we’d have walked that today.
If we can get our recruitment right in the summer I’ll be quietly confident we’ll do alright next season.
 
I am remembering all those times we got told City wanted a player, Maguire, Fred, Sanchez etc. swiftly followed by us blowing our load on buying them only to spend years regretting it.
They have upgraded to doing it with managers now haven't they.
 
Raoul said:
Yep....forgot about that one. Its sad we have to rely on defenders to generate goals because our strikers are clearly not good enough.
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Absolutely. I'm coming to quite like Zirkzee in many ways, and I also thought Hojlund was a bit better today than he has been for most of the season, but both of them are lacking when it comes to knowing where to be in the final third to score goals.

I don't want to speak in absolutes but I'm pretty convinced that in a game like today Osimhen would've been on the scoresheet if he were up front.
 
We are improving in defence and midfield, we look much better at progressing the ball from the back line into the midfield and then into attack of positions. Today we had very little cutting edge against a Forest team that have a superb defensive record at home. I’m disappointed we lost but I feel Amorim is starting to get the team to play his system. He does need another couple of creative players to convert that kind of possession into something meaningful though.
 
Valencia Shin Crosses said:
What’s happening is exactly what I feared when we first hired him: our attack is so piss poor that it often renders useless any decent team performance (like tonight) and then exposes bad performances.

It’s essentially the opposite of the Ole era where we’d play poorly as a team and still win 3-1 because Pogba/Bruno/Rashford/Martial/Greenwood/Cavani etc would bail us out with a brilliant moment. Now we don’t have a single player on the level of any of them (barring Bruno obviously still being here) that can produce that sort of magic, so even if the team plays well we still are locked in tight games win or lose.
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But surely that’s a much better position to be in than to be fluking victories through individual brilliance.

Give him a window to get a few players in and then see how we get on.
 
Eugenius said:
Alternative interpretation is that we actually had more numbers forward without being rooted to 3 at the back.
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We still had 3 at the back. Dorgu went to LCB and Garnacho was LWB for the last 7-8 mins when Maguire came on.
 
Raoul said:
We had a lot more legit chances than Forest. Putting them away is of course another issue. That won't change until after the summer window.
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What's a "legit" chance though? We created more than Forest, but they created almost nothing, whereas we created a couple of real chances, both in added time falling to Maguire. Beyond that we had a few half chances and a lot of wild wasteful shooting from the likes of Garnacho.

I agree that we'd have a better chance of putting those half-chances away with a decent finisher, but we desperately need to improve our chance creation too.
 
The Hilton said:
Unfortunately this Forest side are tailor made to beat us at the moment - they play in a low block and look to hit on the counter, and we don't have the footballing ability to play through them, nor the physicality to press high and force turnovers, and those traits also combine to leave us really vulnerable on the counter.
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I was surprised we got in behind them as often as we did actually. Garnacho was the main culprit of wasting promising situations. Too often the final ball or the one v one with Garnacho failed us.

If we keep giving away stupid goals though it always leaves us- a team that generally struggle to score goals- a mountain to climb.
 
Disappointing performance but will hopefully improve.

Not willing to strop him off just yet
 
From the post match presser...

Amorim: "I think I'm always honest when the team didn't create chances. Today, we created chances, and I think we have a lack of quality in the final third. And if we had the quality, imagine the chances that we [could put away] supoposed to be.
 
Longshanks said:
And it means we create more chances for our wingbacks than our attackers because the wingbacks are the overloads.

Its flawed, and unless the wingbacks are absolutely worldclass players in both attack and defence (they don't exist) than it's a system that will continue to fail in the premier league.

You just end up with jack of all trade players getting into good attacking positions but not being actually good enough to do anything about it, while you genuine attacking talents are marked out of the game.
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Bingo.
 
The Hilton said:
What's a "legit" chance though? We created more than Forest, but they created almost nothing, whereas we created a couple of real chances, both in added time falling to Maguire. Beyond that we had a few half chances and a lot of wild wasteful shooting from the likes of Garnacho.

I agree that we'd have a better chance of putting those half-chances away with a decent finisher, but we desperately need to improve our chance creation too.
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They are listed in previous posts. Among many....Dalot hit the bar, Mount went just wide, Bruno had an early shot on target, Maguire heads wide late, Maguire is cleared off the line even later. Plenty of those could've easily been goals. Amorim, based on his post match comments, appears to agree.
 
Irwin99 said:
I was surprised we got in behind them as often as we did actually. Garnacho was the main culprit of wasting promising situations. Too often the final ball or the one v one with Garnacho failed us.

If we keep giving away stupid goals though it always leaves us- a team that generally struggle to score goals- a mountain to climb.
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That's Garnacho in a nutshell though, he's not good enough to beat defenders, which goes back to my point about us not being good enough at football to break the low block. We can't move the ball quickly enough to pass through, nor can we move the ball quickly enough to dribble through.
 
Too many players careless with the ball. Dorgu, Garnacho in particular. Even our best player Bruno is caught in possession far too often . We squander far too many chances to hit teams on the break with a poor pass or wrong choice.
Thought Amorim was wrong taking Ugarte off rather than Casemiro. Forest really bossed the first 20mins of the second half until Erikson replaced Casemiro. Collyer might have been the better option also.
Result wasn’t a surprise given the way this season has gone. The performance does give me some hope that there is a plan.
I seriously would consider swapping Garnacho for Rashford though, God help me.
 
Don't think he made any obvious mistakes today. Plan was sound and could have worked if not for another piece of individual brilliance. That said, him bringing on Maguire to play as a striker with 8-9 minutes to go... I lost a certain amount of optimism there
 
Maguire almost putting that one in, wow. So so close. What a substitution that would have proven to been. Ballsy.
 
Raoul said:
We had 23 shots on goal to their 8. We had 6 on target to their 2. So all things, said we had far more chances than them, and if we had anything remotely better than Zirkzee or Hojlund, a few of them would've found the back of the net.
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Our xG was also 1.38 to their 0.43.

Had we been the team to win 1-0 with exactly the same performance everyone would've said it was well deserved.

I'm seeing a good structure here that can work for us and be gradually upgraded by adding the right players to it over time. This Amotim fella is definitely showing why the leadership team wanted him in now rather than the summer. He needed this half season to put all the bricks in line ready for the summer window.
 
Strange reading these comments as I came out of it feeling really positive about him. We lack a cutting edge but then we knew that already. We looked a lot better with the ball, much crisper passing, and we restricted them to very little.
 
IMO Lot of poor decision today by Amorim from the starting XI to the whole game. It’s like he doesn’t know his players and doesn’t know where to play them. IMO the most bizarre one from the many poor decision he made today is to play Casemiro and Ugarte in midfield.

The only decision he got it right was bringing Maguire as the super sub striker and I think it’s the first time he made this kind of change at United. Not an uncommon sub because ten Hag had done it before.
 
JE-365 said:
Lot of poor decision today by Amorim from the starting XI to the whole game. It’s like he doesn’t know his players and doesn’t know where to play them.

The only decision he got it right was bringing Maguire as the super sub striker and I think it’s the first time he made this kind of change at United. Not an uncommon sub because ten Hag had done it before.
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Obvious troll is zzzzzz
 
Gavinb33 said:
Because they weren't going to be as strong at the back because Aina went off and his replacement Alex Moreno is shit so they had to change the whole formation I mean that's not that hard to understand
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They added a defender. Just admit you’re wrong. They took off a defender and a winger, and added two defenders. Everybody picked up on this except you, yet you want to tell me you don’t know what’s hard to understand?
 
Raoul said:
They are listed in previous posts. Dalot hit the bar, Mount went just wide, Bruno had an early shot on target, Maguire heads wide late, Maguire is cleared off the line even later. Plenty of those could've easily been goals. Amorim, based on his post match comments, appears to agree.
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Could have been goals and legit chance are very different things. Literally any shot could have been a goal, it doesn't make it a good chance though.

A quick look on fotmob has Dalot's header being 0.06xG, and Bruno's early shot on target being the same. Those are half chances at best. I've given you Maguire's chances, but they only came about because the forward players didn't look like creating or scoring anything.

Now I agree with you that a better striker would see us creating more, and scoring more from lower quality chances, which would be a huge boon to us, but poor finishers isn't the only reason we aren't scoring - we looked toothless for most of the match tonight.
 
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