Its Hojlund that's the problem, not our lack of development. He's simply not good enough and needs to go asap. The likes of Amad, Zirkzee, Yoro and others are doing just fine. Even Bruno is playing much better than under ETH.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach | Thread locked during matches
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Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) discuss United's fantastic win away against Athletic Club in the semi-final of the Europa League.
They also pick out the positives of United's 4-3 loss away at Brentford, and Nik reviews a day out at Old Trafford watching Manchester United Women qualify for the Champions League.
Its Hojlund that's the problem, not our lack of development. He's simply not good enough and needs to go asap. The likes of Amad, Zirkzee, Yoro and others are doing just fine. Even Bruno is playing much better than under ETH.
They need to buy some ready made players this summer, if they need to sell a lot of players to fund that they well better be.
We expect INEOS to sign 'players for the future' but then get angry when managers don't get instant success? We need a balance of quality players this summer with 'players for the future' if they sign 5 more Dorgu's we're simply fecked, no matter who the manager is.
I genuinely hope he does well and can put this team back challenging again, but I just don't see it. Requires too many specialists to perform his desired way of play. Has there ever been a coach who has primarily played 3 at the back who has won anything of substance? I can't think of any. Managers like Pep, Tuchel, and even Klopp have dabbled, but they always return to a 4 at the back structure.
Unfortunately, next season will be more of the same and by Christmas, he will be on the hot seat. The defenders will say "he wasn't properly backed" blah blah blah, but the reality is he has a team full of international starters at the club now and he can't figure out a way to get the best use out of them. I'm all for principles, but at some point winning takes priority. We all talk about standards, where is the standard of excellence with this team? Unfortunately, its just a good coach at the wrong club. I'd ask, where would we be now if we kept Ten Haag? I would venture to say not this far down the table or bad.
Unfortunately, next season will be more of the same and by Christmas, he will be on the hot seat. The defenders will say "he wasn't properly backed" blah blah blah, but the reality is he has a team full of international starters at the club now and he can't figure out a way to get the best use out of them. I'm all for principles, but at some point winning takes priority. We all talk about standards, where is the standard of excellence with this team? Unfortunately, its just a good coach at the wrong club. I'd ask, where would we be now if we kept Ten Haag? I would venture to say not this far down the table or bad.
A quote worthy of Kevin Keegan. Wish we were playing in one of those leagues where you don't have to score to win.
I want to give him the summer window and a season but nobody can deny less than a point a game average over this many games is nothing short of a disaster of a start.
He’s been a disaster.
You don't understand, they're operating at a higher level of football knowledge where averaging a point a game with no real visible upturn in 5 months is perfectly fine because [insert excuses].
With all this bashing of Hojlund and claiming we have to play without a striker, it's easy to forget that Hojlund at least got some goals last season. Amorim didn't exactly improve him, so I'm not even sure it should be used as a shield and excuse.
Not claiming you'll win the league with Hojlund leading the line, but last season's version was enough for midtable
Not claiming you'll win the league with Hojlund leading the line, but last season's version was enough for midtable
Too much backward/sideways passing. A simple look over the shoulder to receive a pass doesn’t happen with this lot. It’s brutal. No courage bar Bruno.
Journalist:
Will playing 3 attacking players behind the no 9 at the expense of one CB increase or decrease United's chances of scoring goals?
With other managers I could see early on what they were trying to do, even if it was stupid (Ole's free for all counter attack), but with Amorin I don't. Aside from 3 at the back i dont know what style of football we want to play.
We struggled a lot scoring last season under EtH lets not forget that ( I know we had injuries), it was an obvious glaring hole that needed to get addressed in the summer and didn't, it's set us back a hell of a lot.
His tactics would certainly be more suited to those kinds of leagues.
Based on today's game, I have to disagree. I thought we controlled the game very well. Amass and Fredricson both came into the side and played very, very well. It's clear that our issue is at the top end of the pitch where we just can't score. His three striking options are Hojlund (3 league goals and another poor performance...), Zirkzee (injured, so not an option), and Chido (17 years old). The striking options just aren't there.
I thought Amorim did everything right today and, with a better set of attackers, we win this game comfortably 3 or 4-0. We had enough opportunities today, we just couldn't finish. Wolves scoring that free kick was an absolute sucker punch.
Yeah all of that is correct, he wasn't the solution then and he isn't the solution now, but at least he was able to contribute. Doesn't seem to be the case at all this season
It's after matches like these where I seriously have to ask what the feck do people actually want Amorim to have done differently?
We were coming off the back of a game where we played 120 minutes and coming into a match which, let's be honest, is now entirely meaningless. With this in mind, we duly rested players for the few games that we have left which could be season-defining, played some youngsters, out-played our opponents and came unstuck because of a fantastic free-kick and our striker's complete inability to know where the feck he's supposed to be to score goals.
I really couldn't give a monkey's about the Premier League from here on out. The focus needs to be on doing absolutely everything we can to win the Europa League, as that could drastically alter our trajectory next season.
We were coming off the back of a game where we played 120 minutes and coming into a match which, let's be honest, is now entirely meaningless. With this in mind, we duly rested players for the few games that we have left which could be season-defining, played some youngsters, out-played our opponents and came unstuck because of a fantastic free-kick and our striker's complete inability to know where the feck he's supposed to be to score goals.
I really couldn't give a monkey's about the Premier League from here on out. The focus needs to be on doing absolutely everything we can to win the Europa League, as that could drastically alter our trajectory next season.
Complaining about the manager after a game where the opposition had a single shot on target from a free kick, and United had several clear cut chances and dominated the game, is quite obviously ridiculous, at least I thought it would be obvious.
I think the thinking was that last year's poor form of Rashford would miraculously improve and be that season where he bagged a lot goals, that failed.
Improved in what really?
Everyone can have their own perceptions and illusions but the fact of the matter is Amorim has 23 points from 21 games or so, - goal difference, some 20 points behind 4th place. He took over when we were 4 points behind 4th.
So essentially the gap between the 4th place and us have expounded 5 times during his tenure but we are improving.
If he kept pace with 4th place team, and be 5-9 points behind had teething problems then we would have other arguments and people would be understandable to his problems.
It's like being in a marathon, you're position 14 but in touching distance from top 3 position, then you change tact suddenly, then when ending the race you're still position 14 but some 20 or 30 minutes away from the finisher. How can you say you're improving in such a condition? The leading pack left you behind massively.
I don't really care either way about Amorim because I know it's all about how bad how squad is rather than any manager
But, we were actually the better side today with a lineup where at least 8 of them wouldn't be in our first XI.
But, we were actually the better side today with a lineup where at least 8 of them wouldn't be in our first XI.
That's a sign of poor players and generally means no matter how elite your manager that the team will not get the results we expect as a fanbase.
If we sign 5 more Dorgu's than it won't really matter about tactics because whoever the manager is we'll still be midtable at best. Not what the point of that hypothetical is because ultimately the biggest issue we have is recruitment, not the manager.
I found his interview after the last game quite interesting as he basically acknowledged why his methods aren't working in the premier league, athleticism. I'd be really interested to see how we look against Bilbao, who whilst being a good team aren't as physical as any team in the league.
I don't think most of the criticism in here is about one game in particular, but rather a broader trend
We weren't terrible yeah. But we created an xG of 1.1. People act as if we blew Wolves away. We should've won with what both teams created, but it wasn't this daylight robbery people paint it to be
100% this. Not sure why we feel the need to place blame on the manager. We were unfortunate to lose the game.
What a visionary.
I'd say the broader trend recently has been a pretty considerable uptick in performances, though.
Barring the Newcastle game, which was just shite but then they're a much better side than us, and Lyon from the 70th minute until the 110th where we really fell apart, we've been controlling the majority of our recent games. We're just cursed with a crap goalkeeper who keeps making errors, and a crap striker who is contributing absolutely nothing to the side.
I think people need to calm down and remember how poor we have been the last 14 months before his arrival. We had been outplayed by almost everyone.
Since his arrival, we loaned out 3 players who played regularly (at least Malacia before he got injured was playing), we had no left back and no true strikers.
I think people over estimated the new manager bounce over a longer period. We saw it with Ole, which actually didn't change anything but he just didn't fight with the players as Jose did. But even with him after a while we stagnated (in the same season I mean).
Amorim is trying to change our system, with almost no resources provided, and improve our culture (including the laziness and the current zero physicality).
It may not work, but it's not like Arteta or Klopp made their team PL contenders after 6 months.
Since his arrival, we loaned out 3 players who played regularly (at least Malacia before he got injured was playing), we had no left back and no true strikers.
I think people over estimated the new manager bounce over a longer period. We saw it with Ole, which actually didn't change anything but he just didn't fight with the players as Jose did. But even with him after a while we stagnated (in the same season I mean).
Amorim is trying to change our system, with almost no resources provided, and improve our culture (including the laziness and the current zero physicality).
It may not work, but it's not like Arteta or Klopp made their team PL contenders after 6 months.
"Sometimes in football, you have to score goals." - Thierry Henry, philosopher
I wouldn't expect these forwards to blow anyone away, it's exactly as bad as I'd expect from them under any manager. You must rate Garnacho, Hojlund and Mainoo (as a forward) far higher than me.
Premier League is just different gravy
Do the people that identified Hojlund even work at United any more?
Using xG is just daft in this case. When Hojlund is through and can set up Mainoo for a one-on-one, but inexplicably chooses not to, that won’t be captured by such a stat.
We bought Zirkzee in the summer so we addressed it like we often do, by signing a decent but not great player.
We'd meme the shit out of that statement if it came from a rival's manager
Didn't most of those goals come in a 7 match spell
It's flawed for sure, yeah, and likely selling us short here. But we didn't create four or five goals like people claim
To be honest, I'd go so far as to say that about 85% of it is just Hojlund. Garnacho's decision-making is frustrating but then equally, when he does decide to pass it he is never rewarded for doing so because Hojlund isn't ever fecking there to capitalise.
He seems like a good kid so I feel bad constantly slating him but I'm not even sure that Southampton would consider him a handy asset up front right now. He just offers absolutely nothing.
They are operating on a level of blind faith, but instead of simply being honest and saying so, they instead have to make up daft excuses to validate their stance, which is the annoying part.
I've said many times I'm fine with Amorim still being here next season. But that is simply because he's a likeable guy and I'm curious to see if anything changes after a few changes to the team. It's absolutely not based on his performance so far, which is undeniably appalling.
I'll never understand the mindset of those who feel it necessary to blindly defend managers by blatantly lying. What does anyone get out of it? Let's just call a spade a spade and acknowledge Amorim is a disaster so far, and maybe just maybe, he isn't the right guy. We'll find out next season, because Ratcliffe sure as shit isn't going to write off another season hovering above the relegation zone
I didn’t watch the game, only online highlights, so honest question, shouldn’t we have scored a couple today easily before their goal? Looked like we had loads of good chances compared to Wolves from the onlime commentary I saw.
no it wasn't addressed, he wasn't a striker. Even when we're linked with him a simple Youtube video showed he wasn't an out and out striker with a lot of goals under him.
Zirkzee is a type of signing that needs time, we couldn't afford players like that with the risk of how backwards it could set us especially in the striker position when it was our biggest problem last season. We needed a TOP striker
There's an obvious rule in football, top teams need top well made strikers. If you want to bring in an upcoming young striker, they should be backup to a top striker slowly making their way up. Zirkzee was the wrong option