I wonder who would take him as manager if we were to go back to the sacking of ETH and know this outcome? I doubt anyone on the Caf would take this level of poor performances and toothless displays in the passage of improving us in the long run.Why is it bizarre, he’s a rookie that’s never managed in the EPL and has 27% win rate and 50% loss rate, you get him 5 or 6 more players like Dorgu and next year we are still in the bottom 5, then what?
How is that an upgrade on two trophies, 3rd and 8th place, how?
We set up with 7 defensive players and he’s learning on the job as I said he qualified for his first European Semi Final by the skin of his teeth in 7 years of his managerial career on Thursday!
Please someone tell me why he’s so special because he’s honest, sometimes you can be too honest?
Ruben has 23 points in 22 PL matches, most fans would be willing to give him much more of a chance if he wasn’t so stubborn and inflexible.
He’s made so many rookie 101 mistakes this season and that’s on Berrada too, he wanted him.
Amorim will decide his and Berrada’s fate. We don’t score because we are set up so defensively and don’t have the ability to play through teams, we’re a dull team set up by a vastly overrated coach, like I said he will get 8-10 PL games next season and if he hasn’t achieved 1.8 points per game and shown significant improvement, he’ll be sacked.
my argument does make sense, just because players sat back doesn't automatically mean the manager instructed them to, that's what the OG post insinuated that he actually told them too without baseless evidenceIt’s simply that your argument doesn’t make sense. We sat back. You heard RA say that isn’t what he wanted, so you say we couldn’t have sat back. I don’t put any stock in post-match interviews, particularly from head coaches I. The hot seat.
We’ve already lost a record 15 times in the league this season with 3 more losses in the offing. The worst United boss since color TV. Hard to see how a better manager wouldn’t be available, as it pretty much encompasses all of them.If he doesn't get Champs league and there is a better manager available, we should definitely get rid of Amorim.
Now you’re just arguing with yourself. Go touch grass.my argument does make sense, just because players sat back doesn't automatically mean the manager instructed them to, that's what the OG post insinuated without baseless facts.
If the players misses easy goals does that mean I should believe the manager instructed them to miss too? Everything now on the pitch is because of a managers instruction?
True, a decent keeper and an actual striker who can score goals plus a couple of strong athletic midfielders and it shouldn't really matter what system you play, the wingbacks he might have to develop from within.If we are to back him then we shouldn't spend on specialist 3421 players that is for sure. It is not Klopp who we brought in, it is an unproven young coach from Portugal. Why on earth give him cart blanche to change the whole setup?
nice argument mate, think before you post, maybe see previous posts on what i've been replying before postingNow you’re just arguing with yourself. Go touch grass.
A striker who could get into double figures plus a keeper who doesn't make a mistake every two matches and I think the team will get significantly better. A lot of people are insistent that we're still playing like utter shite but I don't see it. I think we're controlling the majority of our games now and just totally let down predominantly by two players. Unfortunately, those are two players in the two positions most directly involved in scoring goals and not conceding them.
He’ll. be gone by November 1st, he’s massively out of his depth and when Athletico Bilbao make his system look what it is, a complete Cluster F…then Fans will turn very quickly on him.Didn't he say that his 3421 system is not working due to the PL's athleticism? And the guy refuses to play any other formation. He will be gone by December unless we have a spectacular window.
i'd include the City draw100%
Losses and draws that didn't have to be:
1-0 Wolves
1-0 Forest
1-0 Spurs
2-0 Palace
3-0 Bournemouth
2-0 Wolves
2-1 West Ham
0-0 Palace
2-1 Brighton
Two goals scored. 27 points dropped
An effective attacker striker could've gotten us an additional 18-23 points this year, which would've been the difference between 14th and 5th.
If he doesn't get Champs league and there is a better manager available, we should definitely get rid of Amorim.
Havertz has 15 goals 5 assists this season, despite being injured half of itHavertz ismt, Trossard isnt
I think, that might be the case of wanting to see something rather than actually seeing it. As joyful as thursdays result was, we were throwing the kitchen sink at them and Lyon being a player down hampered their ability for breaks significantly. This could have gone differently quite easy. When you go all-out, put many people in the box, play with urgeny and park the tall CB in their box, your chances of forcing something increase a lot. But that doesn't have anything to do with the players being freed from "the system".I thought the same thing this morning funnily enough. I didn't post this consensus on Thursday night as I thought Amorim and the team were responsible for the result but when you critically assess the perceived danger of the team, the players are more threatening when going gung ho.
It's the exact reason why Erik Ten Hag won the FA cup last season with the Liverpool fixture a prime example. Tactics, organisation and philosophy out the window it's essentially the players using their own intuition to score.
I have said for weeks now that I can't see Amorim being a success and this is one of the primary reasons, his system is bearing very little fruit. I would have loved even if United were negative and defensively responsible but even in a game where the team is playing against 10 men, the manager still has 5 defenders on the pitch and if you count the defensive orientated midfielder it's a tally of 6 defensive players across 10 positions.
So no matter how fans frame it we cannot be surprised at the teams lackluster ability to score or to offer any form of penetration against the opposition because on average the manager is fielding a team where 60-70% of outfield players are defensive in every single fixture.
It's very frustrating but the more time progresses the stronger my convictions about Amorim are and without being boastful I had the same reservations about Erik during the infancy of his second season. The reservations differ in terms of criteria behind what's letting both managers down but on the surface it's fundamentally the same issue insufficient tactical approaches.
Nah mate. Possession isn't control, control means you prevent the opposition team from creating good value chances while you are able to generate such. We aren't doing the 2nd part and therefor aren't in control. Sticking all the issues on the hands of two players isn't going to help the overall issues even though I have no issues agreeing that keeper issues and the striker department this season added majorly to the failure.A striker who could get into double figures plus a keeper who doesn't make a mistake every two matches and I think the team will get significantly better. A lot of people are insistent that we're still playing like utter shite but I don't see it. I think we're controlling the majority of our games now and just totally let down predominantly by two players. Unfortunately, those are two players in the two positions most directly involved in scoring goals and not conceding them.
And then what? Pissing away the next lump sum for killing off a contract. I think, it is important to make a difference between standing behind a manager and being against a sacking.I wonder who would take him as manager if we were to go back to the sacking of ETH and know this outcome? I doubt anyone on the Caf would take this level of poor performances and toothless displays in the passage of improving us in the long run.
He should be sacked today.
Thats actually my take as well but unfortunately, the majority of posters on here thinks otherwise.Havertz has 15 goals 5 assists this season, despite being injured half of it
Trossard has 9 goals 8 assists
Last year:
Trossard had 17 goals 3 assists
Havertz had 14 goals 8 assists
No United forward is close to this output and these two aren't even our best attackers.
A striker won't solve your problems, he will get you goals yes but your midfield is dire and your defence leaks too many goals. You need that summer we had where we got Saliba, Zinchenko and Jesus. Changed our year.
I feel the truth is somewhere in the middle. Amorim should get slack as this is not his team but only to a point. You see eg Moyes improving Everton instantly.
I watch every United game, as best mate is a Utd fan, as long as Arsenal aren't playing at the same time. So slight soft corner for United.
Nothing wrong with that insight to be honest.Presumably the kind of insight that wowed Berrada at the interview stage
There is no reason why a back 3 cannot work in a premier league. With this squad it's not working, however there's a reason he wanted to join in the summer and Ineos have to take culpability for that.It's a half glass scenario,
1. Probably the tactics are poor. You need to accept also this might be true. Have the humility to accept probably a back 3 team is not cut in the modern EPL.
2. Probably the squad is poor, you need results. You know the shortcomings of your team, it is 'athleticism', but why not cover the shortcomings of your team, get some points, solve the 'athleticism' issue during the transfer window.
In Europa we will do well, it has already become an emotional tournament for us. Thats how cup competitions are won.
In the league where it's not about emotions but tactics and cleverness we will struggle.
There is no long term and sustainable progress when you rely on chaos. It may get us some results but never a league title.I thought the same thing this morning funnily enough. I didn't post this consensus on Thursday night as I thought Amorim and the team were responsible for the result but when you critically assess the perceived danger of the team, the players are more threatening when going gung ho.
It's the exact reason why Erik Ten Hag won the FA cup last season with the Liverpool fixture a prime example. Tactics, organisation and philosophy out the window it's essentially the players using their own intuition to score.
I have said for weeks now that I can't see Amorim being a success and this is one of the primary reasons, his system is bearing very little fruit. I would have loved even if United were negative and defensively responsible but even in a game where the team is playing against 10 men, the manager still has 5 defenders on the pitch and if you count the defensive orientated midfielder it's a tally of 6 defensive players across 10 positions.
So no matter how fans frame it we cannot be surprised at the teams lackluster ability to score or to offer any form of penetration against the opposition because on average the manager is fielding a team where 60-70% of outfield players are defensive in every single fixture.
It's very frustrating but the more time progresses the stronger my convictions about Amorim are and without being boastful I had the same reservations about Erik during the infancy of his second season. The reservations differ in terms of criteria behind what's letting both managers down but on the surface it's fundamentally the same issue insufficient tactical approaches.
Win rate percentages? Let's cut the scientific bullshit. You mention Dorgu, but the strength of our recruitment doesn't impact his ability as a manager. It may impact results, but not his ability.Why is it bizarre, he’s a rookie that’s never managed in the EPL and has 27% win rate and 50% loss rate, you get him 5 or 6 more players like Dorgu and next year we are still in the bottom 5, then what?
How is that an upgrade on two trophies, 3rd and 8th place, how?
We set up with 7 defensive players and he’s learning on the job as I said he qualified for his first European Semi Final by the skin of his teeth in 7 years of his managerial career on Thursday!
Please someone tell me why he’s so special because he’s honest, sometimes you can be too honest?
Ruben has 23 points in 22 PL matches, most fans would be willing to give him much more of a chance if he wasn’t so stubborn and inflexible.
He’s made so many rookie 101 mistakes this season and that’s on Berrada too, he wanted him.
Amorim will decide his and Berrada’s fate. We don’t score because we are set up so defensively and don’t have the ability to play through teams, we’re a dull team set up by a vastly overrated coach, like I said he will get 8-10 PL games next season and if he hasn’t achieved 1.8 points per game and shown significant improvement, he’ll be sacked.
Why is it bizarre, he’s a rookie that’s never managed in the EPL and has 27% win rate and 50% loss rate, you get him 5 or 6 more players like Dorgu and next year we are still in the bottom 5, then what?
How is that an upgrade on two trophies, 3rd and 8th place, how?
We set up with 7 defensive players and he’s learning on the job as I said he qualified for his first European Semi Final by the skin of his teeth in 7 years of his managerial career on Thursday!
Please someone tell me why he’s so special because he’s honest, sometimes you can be too honest?
Ruben has 23 points in 22 PL matches, most fans would be willing to give him much more of a chance if he wasn’t so stubborn and inflexible.
He’s made so many rookie 101 mistakes this season and that’s on Berrada too, he wanted him.
Amorim will decide his and Berrada’s fate. We don’t score because we are set up so defensively and don’t have the ability to play through teams, we’re a dull team set up by a vastly overrated coach, like I said he will get 8-10 PL games next season and if he hasn’t achieved 1.8 points per game and shown significant improvement, he’ll be sacked.
We then have to pay Amorim, ten Hag (possibly still?), the new manager, and all the wages of everyone coming back that we won't be able to sell/a new manager wanting to give a shot. That stretches this club very thin.
Why is it bizarre, he’s a rookie that’s never managed in the EPL and has 27% win rate and 50% loss rate, you get him 5 or 6 more players like Dorgu and next year we are still in the bottom 5, then what?
How is that an upgrade on two trophies, 3rd and 8th place, how?
We set up with 7 defensive players and he’s learning on the job as I said he qualified for his first European Semi Final by the skin of his teeth in 7 years of his managerial career on Thursday!
Please someone tell me why he’s so special because he’s honest, sometimes you can be too honest?
Ruben has 23 points in 22 PL matches, most fans would be willing to give him much more of a chance if he wasn’t so stubborn and inflexible.
He’s made so many rookie 101 mistakes this season and that’s on Berrada too, he wanted him.
Amorim will decide his and Berrada’s fate. We don’t score because we are set up so defensively and don’t have the ability to play through teams, we’re a dull team set up by a vastly overrated coach, like I said he will get 8-10 PL games next season and if he hasn’t achieved 1.8 points per game and shown significant improvement, he’ll be sacked.
The thing with that is he really has no room for error next year, the club have to sign well, but the team has to show improvement.The mistake you're making in the above is presuming football would make you happy this year. With rare exception (such as Thu night), this season was always going to be a very bad one. Even Amorim has repeatedly said as much over the past six months to lower fan expecations.
Quote:
"I know it is frustrating for the fans but we are changing so much in this moment with a lot of games," he said. "We are going to suffer for a long period. We will try to win games but this will take time.
"We have to risk it a little bit [now] and in the next year we will be better [otherwise] next year at the same stage we will be here with the same problems."
---
Therefore if the manager is telling you its going to get far worse before it gets better, then there's no point complaining about this year. Next year is truly when the rubber will meet the road.
I think some of your points are a bit bizarre but what about this list. What do you want to say, that United made a mistake not bringing in modern coaches with modern principles? Thats nothing anybody on here would disagree with, from my point of view. I just don't get how you use that fact against Amorim - ETH and especially Amorim build their (even if limited) reputation based on such modern principles.Let's compare it with PSG for instance who have underperformed relative to the credentials of the coaches they have hired:
Enrique
Galtier
Pochettino
Tuchel
Emery
Blanc
Ancelotti.
Now in contrast to United's:
Erik Ten Hag
Van Gaal
Amorim
Moyes
Solskjaer
Ragnick
Mourinho
There's only one individual who fits the criteria of that PSG list and coincidentally he's been United's most successful manager since SAF retiring (competitively) which is Jose. So yes United have underperformed relative to money spent but on the basis of coaches hired the trend has continued and it's summarised in putting average managers in elite club positions. Amorim is more of the same.
The thing with that is he really has no room for error next year, the club have to sign well, but the team has to show improvement.
Ah, the old ‘set up’ causing problems again. How would you have set the team up today?If it were a one off yes, but it’s a repeated problem. Whilst the team is average, its not quite as bad as this, and the set up combined with the lack of a good goalscorer is causing this lack of goals, which then it only takes one moment to punish.
Havertz has 15 goals 5 assists this season, despite being injured half of it
Trossard has 9 goals 8 assists
Last year:
Trossard had 17 goals 3 assists
Havertz had 14 goals 8 assists
No United forward is close to this output and these two aren't even our best attackers.
I agree, I actually think our general play is better than under ETH. Can't win games if you don't score goals though and our attacking players are dreadful. Ipswich have a better forward line than us, that's mental.Everything is reducible to scoring goals next year. If we score them in abundance, we win a lot more games and points, and the higher table position will resolve all the anxieties we're seeing this year.
Sort ofYou are correct that no United forward is close to that output buts thats down to the coaching and more-so the tactics that have starved the forward's of oppurtunities under both Ten Hag and Amorim.
ETH played WW in the 10 role and Bruno on the right. That was complete madness.ETH did manage two cups heh. So the squad wasn't shit, in fact players like Ugarte, Mazraoui, DeLigt, Yoro et al have been very good. Obviously the money spent on Hojlund, Zirkzee, and Mount could've been spent better. Let's remember, ETH's idea of a striker was Weghorst, so its not suprising Amorim has been made to suffer with an obvious lack of quality from what ETH left him at #9.
From his first interview...The mistake you're making in the above is presuming football would make you happy this year. With rare exception (such as Thu night), this season was always going to be a very bad one. Even Amorim has repeatedly said as much over the past six months to lower fan expecations.
Quote from November 24th, 2024
"I know it is frustrating for the fans but we are changing so much in this moment with a lot of games," he said. "We are going to suffer for a long period. We will try to win games but this will take time.
"We have to risk it a little bit [now] and in the next year we will be better [otherwise] next year at the same stage we will be here with the same problems."
---
Therefore if the manager is telling you its going to get far worse before it gets better, then there's no point complaining about this year. Next year is truly when the rubber will meet the road.
Yeah with a bit of Arsenal's coaching I'd be a prolific PL striker too.You are correct that no United forward is close to that output buts thats down to the coaching and more-so the tactics that have starved the forward's of oppurtunities under both Ten Hag and Amorim.
You're overrating coaching. It comes down to quality of the individual more than anything else. If a goalkeeper makes lots of mistakes is it the coaches fault? If players are missing simple 5 yard passes under no pressure is it the passing drills and rondo's at fault?You are correct that no United forward is close to that output buts thats down to the coaching and more-so the tactics that have starved the forward's of oppurtunities under both Ten Hag and Amorim.
It’s incredible how a Manchester United manager managed to get a free ride for an entire season just by telling the fans and media they couldn’t reasonably expect anything of him. I can’t believe how many fans just bought into that. I’ll try the same next time my boss complains about my performance.---
Therefore if the manager is telling you its going to get far worse before it gets better, then there's no point complaining about this year. Next year is truly when the rubber will meet the road.
Sort of
Rashford doesn't prove it's all down to coaching, he had an amazing season under EtH and then not so under the same manager. That proves coaching/tactics alone doesn't mean players turn into consistent goals.
What about the season before under Ole and Rangnick ?Rashford wasnt given a proper chance by Amorim despite scoring twice in 2 consecutive games under him and clearly didnt go from scoring 30 goals in a single season to stuggling to score 10 in a season for no reason, that's clearly down either issues between him and Ten Hag or with the way he was being used and coached.
Sorry, one thing you cannot point at is the effort the players are putting in for this manager, you could with Rashford while he was here. He couldn't be bothered.Rashford wasnt given a proper chance by Amorim despite scoring twice in 2 consecutive games under him and clearly didnt go from scoring 30 goals in a single season to stuggling to score 10 in a season for no reason, that's clearly down either issues between him and Ten Hag or with the way he was being used and coached.
ETH played WW in the 10 role and Bruno on the right. That was complete madness.
Come on you can't be giving excuses to players like Rashford who have been hot and cold in most of their career to put blame on the managers, that's just far-fetched.Rashford wasnt given a proper chance by Amorim despite scoring twice in 2 consecutive games under him and clearly didnt go from scoring 30 goals in a single season to stuggling to score 10 in a season for no reason, that's clearly down either issues between him and Ten Hag or with the way he was being used and coached.
