Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach | Thread locked during matches

DJ Jeff said:
My worry about the 3-4-3 is that we're going to turf out Garnacho and Mainoo for not fitting into any role in it and they're going to go elsewhere and be good, then Amorim will flop anyway and we'll sack him in October for a manager who goes back to playing a back 4.
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The huge worry.
Ship out everyone even vaguely suited to wide positions, then the next manager will suddenly have to buy two.

It's a funny one. We have on one hand, people rightly saying we don't have the players to make this formation work. But then on the other hand you have a manager stubbornly insisting on playing it come what may.

Unless we have an absolutely incredible transfer window, we could easily be in a position next January where we need a new manager, have no wide attackers and again need a major rethink.
 
astracrazy said:
And have we seen any improvement in this change of play?
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We're conceding less chances and look to have more control in games than we did under ETH so yes. We still have moments of stupidity and we look still toothless in the final third. But our chance creation is better, we just have shite options up top. No matter who came in and took over this club we would have the same problems, we don't have the firepower. We might do better playing on the break and sticking with Oleball but I thought all of us on the Caf wanted to take control of games and play a more progressive, modern type of football?

Ultimately, we started this season with crap options up top and that was down to ETH and the people in charge for signing off on that. It was also their decision to sack ETH and bring in a Manager who made it clear wanted to change the way we played and that would mean short term pain. Ultimately, this isn't on Amorim, he's doing what he was brought here to do. Anyone thinking it was going to be plain sailing with our forward options is frankly a fool. The majority of us here in the CAF even during the Summer said we didn't have the goal scoring ability up top and that was before the Season even began. What has followed was and has been entirely predictable.

Stick with Amorim, if we're still shite come Christmas, then the fans will be justified. It's a weird day for people to be critising the Manager when we actually played well and should have won despite fielding a very weakened team. It's just agenda posting by the usual suspects.
 
Raoul said:
A strange thing to say given that a club like Forest are top 4, and they're not much better (if at all) than the big 3 in Portugal.
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Adapting to the EPL is a shock for most players, that team would find they don’t have the space to play that way in the EPL. They would not be anywhere near the Top 5 and its highly unlikely Forrest will finish in the top 5 when the season finishes they’ll be 6th or 7th then next year bottom 5/6 playing Europa and PL twice per week.

Plus Forrest are an adaptable team where they switch 343, 3421, 433, 4231, our Manager who is a rookie is the most one dimensional inflexible coach United football fans have ever seen?
 
Raoul said:
Believe his Sporting side beat City 4-1 this year. City are obviously not their usual selves, but it was a good result nonetheless.
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Take your point, but we beat City away! In an absolutely cataclysmically appalling league season where we're on course to lose half our games!
 
Garethw said:
Is that too much to ask? Or am I terrible fan for wanting my team to have the best chance of winning?

His tactical setup is never going to work in the PL.
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Yes it is. The PL means nothing. You would have gone ape shit if we started Bruno and he got injured in a meaningless game. Strikes me as he's in a no win situation with you.
 
It’s easy to blame the players and the strengths of the squad alone, but we’ve fallen so far behind even what Ten Hag had us playing at.

I don’t see what other big club would put up with this.
 
Posh Red said:
He won’t be sacked this season of at least half way into next. I saw a poster earlier in this thread suggesting he would have already been sacked if not for the Europa league. Even if we had been knocked out, he would still be in a job.
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So after a summer window and he still losing 50% of his games losing/drawing 75% you think he should still be here in gone October?
 
RedSky said:
We're conceding less chances and look to have more control in games than we did under ETH so yes. We still have moments of stupidity and we look still toothless in the final third. But our chance creation is better, we just have shite options up top. No matter who came in and took over this club we would have the same problems, we don't have the firepower. We might do better playing on the break and sticking with Oleball but I thought all of us on the Caf wanted to take control of games and play a more progressive, modern type of football?

Ultimately, we started this season with crap options up top and that was down to ETH and the people in charge for signing off on that. It was also their decision to sack ETH and bring in a Manager who made it clear wanted to change the way we played and that would mean short term pain. Ultimately, this isn't on Amorim, he's doing what he was brought here to do. Anyone thinking it was going to be plain sailing with our forward options is frankly a fool. The majority of us here in the CAF even during the Summer said we didn't have the goal scoring ability up top and that was before the Season even began. What has followed was and has been entirely predictable.

Stick with Amorim, if we're still shite come Christmas, then the fans will be justified. It's a weird day for people to be critising the Manager when we actually played well and should have won despite fielding a very weakened team. It's just agenda posting by the usual suspects.
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While in one way it doesn't really matter how the rest of the league games go, as long as we win the Europa, it's quite disturbing how many losses we've racked up this season.

We've never had a worse set of options in attack in 40 years and it's a bit of a worry how much we'll have to spend and how / if we'll rectify it.

We need at least 2 starter options in the front 3. Then the likes of Amad and Garnacho as rotationals.
Although there's every chance we'll sell Garnacho.
 
Cathy Ferguson said:
And why on earth didn't he bring in a striker on loan in January after losing Rashford?
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That's the million dollar question. We lost Rashford, Antony and Sancho all on loans. But the only offensive player we brought in this Season was Zirkzee. I would love to know what we have been thinking this year. Whoever made the transfer decisions needs taking out back and throwing off a cliff.
 
Bwuk said:
It’s easy to blame the players and the strengths of the squad alone, but we’ve fallen so far behind even what Ten Hag had us playing at.

I don’t see what other big club would put up with this.
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I don't think any big club would sack a manager 5months in though would they? Not one they've known plays a certain system, and is picking up a squad with many weaknesses, that doesn't suit the formation.

He's only Dorgu into the rebuild, and has 2 of his already limited set of attacking options out. Plus has only been able to use Shaw for about an hour in his time here, and barely been able to use Mount either.
No guarantee either offer anything more next season, but they might.
 
TsuWave said:
It’s a relatively drop off. Nowhere near the “oh look! Even Madrid are struggling without” thing that people are trying to point to in an attempt to justify Amorim’s shortcomings
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The situation is also not that straightforward, as Real Madrid also had defensive injuries last season (Militao, Alaba, Courtois). Kroos is missing but he did not start in 1/3rd of games last season and RM won most of those.
 
astracrazy said:
So after a summer window and he still losing 50% of his games losing/drawing 75% you think he should still be here in gone October?
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Maybe just wait and see what happens in the games, instead of the incessant moaning and whinging that this thread seems to consist of.
 
RedSky said:
We're conceding less chances and look to have more control in games than we did under ETH so yes. We still have moments of stupidity and we look still toothless in the final third. But our chance creation is better, we just have shite options up top. No matter who came in and took over this club we would have the same problems, we don't have the firepower. We might do better playing on the break and sticking with Oleball but I thought all of us on the Caf wanted to take control of games and play a more progressive, modern type of football?

Ultimately, we started this season with crap options up top and that was down to ETH and the people in charge for signing off on that. It was also their decision to sack ETH and bring in a Manager who made it clear wanted to change the way we played and that would mean short term pain. Ultimately, this isn't on Amorim, he's doing what he was brought here to do. Anyone thinking it was going to be plain sailing with our forward options is frankly a fool. The majority of us here in the CAF even during the Summer said we didn't have the goal scoring ability up top and that was before the Season even began. What has followed was and has been entirely predictable.

Stick with Amorim, if we're still shite come Christmas, then the fans will be justified. It's a weird day for people to be critising the Manager when we actually played well and should have won despite fielding a very weakened team. It's just agenda posting by the usual suspects.
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He won’t get to Xmas 2025, without European Football he’ll get 8-10 PL matches at most. The fans are starting to turn, I was at Old Trafford today and we probably deserved to win, but the lack of real desire in the EPL and the coach just looks nervous and clueless.

He’s lost 11 PL games, 5 lucky draws and he’s won 6 games, he had one decent result 4-0 Everton then he fell out with Rashford., yes Marcus needs to go but Ruben showed just how clueless he is with the GK coach statement and the worst United team in history. He’s got 8-10 Games next season, at this point, most United fans are starting to lose faith, he said it would be pain before the gain but all I see is a team not improving but instead getting worse!
 
RedSky said:
We're conceding less chances and look to have more control in games than we did under ETH so yes. We still have moments of stupidity and we look still toothless in the final third. But our chance creation is better, we just have shite options up top. No matter who came in and took over this club we would have the same problems, we don't have the firepower. We might do better playing on the break and sticking with Oleball but I thought all of us on the Caf wanted to take control of games and play a more progressive, modern type of football?

Ultimately, we started this season with crap options up top and that was down to ETH and the people in charge for signing off on that. It was also their decision to sack ETH and bring in a Manager who made it clear wanted to change the way we played and that would mean short term pain. Ultimately, this isn't on Amorim, he's doing what he was brought here to do. Anyone thinking it was going to be plain sailing with our forward options is frankly a fool. The majority of us here in the CAF even during the Summer said we didn't have the goal scoring ability up top and that was before the Season even began. What has followed was and has been entirely predictable.

Stick with Amorim, if we're still shite come Christmas, then the fans will be justified. It's a weird day for people to be critising the Manager when we actually played well and should have won despite fielding a very weakened team. It's just agenda posting by the usual suspects.
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But I am going to presume that where is actually matters Amorim is down on a lot of metrics?

The latest comparison I can find was at 15 games. EtH 29 points and Amorim 15. I can only imagine as time has gone on this will have increased.

At 11 games, Amorim scored 2 more but conceded 7 more. Again, going by the results I doubt things have inproved.
 
Sandikan said:
I don't think any big club would sack a manager 5months in though would they? Not one they've known plays a certain system, and is picking up a squad with many weaknesses, that doesn't suit the formation.

He's only Dorgu into the rebuild, and has 2 of his already limited set of attacking options out. Plus has only been able to use Shaw for about an hour in his time here, and barely been able to use Mount either.
No guarantee either offer anything more next season, but they might.
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Just sounds like excuses to me.

I really hope I’m wrong and that he’s a success but I can’t help but feel he’ll be gone November/December next season and it’ll be rinse and repeat.
 
Posh Red said:
Maybe just wait and see what happens in the games, instead of the incessant moaning and whinging that this thread seems to consist of.
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People aren't allowed an opinion if it doesn't match yours?

If you can't justify a statement you made then just don't answer. No need to revert to degrading others posts who aren't of the same view as you.
 
Woziak said:
He won’t get to Xmas 2025, without European Football he’ll get 8-10 PL matches at most. The fans are starting to turn, I was at Old Trafford today and we probably deserved to win, but the lack of real desire in the EPL and the coach just looks nervous and clueless.

He’s lost 11 PL games, 5 lucky draws and he’s won 6 games, he had one decent result 4-0 Everton then he fell out with Rashford., yes Marcus needs to go but Ruben showed just how clueless he is with the GK coach statement and the worst United team in history. He’s got 8-10 Games next season, at this point, most United fans are starting to lose faith, he said it would be pain before the gain but all I see is a team not improving but instead getting worse!
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Most match going fans absolutely haven't turned on the manager
 
Bwuk said:
It’s easy to blame the players and the strengths of the squad alone, but we’ve fallen so far behind even what Ten Hag had us playing at.

I don’t see what other big club would put up with this.
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Ten Hag had us getting humiliated 7-0 and conceding 20+ shots a game. Not sure we've fallen behind that level yet somehow.
 
hellhunter said:
We weren't terrible yeah. But we created an xG of 1.1. People act as if we blew Wolves away. We should've won with what both teams created, but it wasn't this daylight robbery people paint it to be
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GaryLifo said:
You do realise that teams that win 5-0 don't have an xg of 5 right?

Most non penalty goals come from situations that have an xg less than 0.5 and often even smaller than that.
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You also don't get any any XG unless the ball is touched for a shot at goal so the sitters where Garnacho is flashing across the box for a tap in or Dorgu is dropping into the danger zone for someone to anticipate a free header from a few yards out count as 0 XG when an average/decent striker like Chris Wood or Welbeck gets you a few goals from those situations.

For example, Hojlunds XG today was a measly 0.07 but he definitely should have scored at least one.
 
Sandikan said:
The huge worry.
Ship out everyone even vaguely suited to wide positions, then the next manager will suddenly have to buy two.

It's a funny one. We have on one hand, people rightly saying we don't have the players to make this formation work. But then on the other hand you have a manager stubbornly insisting on playing it come what may.

Unless we have an absolutely incredible transfer window, we could easily be in a position next January where we need a new manager, have no wide attackers and again need a major rethink.
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We'll get that Wolves manager in. He plays the same set up (according to my app anyway)
 
astracrazy said:
People aren't allowed an opinion if it doesn't match yours?

If you can't justify a statement you made then just don't answer. No need to revert to degrading others posts who aren't of the same view as you.
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There have been several posts questioning why he hasn’t been sacked already, when it has been obvious to many of us that he won’t be sacked this season, and will be given a chance next season after he has time with the squad. In spite of this, the thread is constantly polluted by incessant complaining and negativity, which, in my opinion, really spoils the experience of using the thread for actual interesting discussion.
 
He's got himself into a right mess. Failed to win back to back games in the PL. Abysmal. The fact he has shoehorned himself into this is quite stark to be honest. To not be flexible with his formation when setting up is madness. He never had the players to play the system. I know he said that there will be a lot of pain on the way, but this league form is absolutely unacceptable. INEOS have created a giant shit show in hiring him. If he doesn't win the EL, can you really trust him next season? Not from what I have seen so far.
 
Bwuk said:
Just sounds like excuses to me.

I really hope I’m wrong and that he’s a success but I can’t help but feel he’ll be gone November/December next season and it’ll be rinse and repeat.
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He's got this half a season as an absolute freebie.
But a couple of poor signings in the summer and starting next season with a few poor defeats and he will definitely do well to get to January.

We've made so many mistakes over the last decade but for some reason people were seduced that a few new "football" people coming in would sort things out.
We then had the absolute farcical Ashworth saga, so I wouldn't put it past our club to have totally overlooked that Amorim plays a style of football that is very difficult to apply in the premier league, or even notice what he plays!
 
JakeC said:
Most match going fans absolutely haven't turned on the manager
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Just listen to the away fans week in, week out. The lifeblood of the club that dedicate their time and money to following the team home and away across Europe. They are still backing the manager, fortunately.
 
Posh Red said:
There have been several posts questioning why he hasn’t been sacked already, when it has been obvious to many of us that he won’t be sacked this season, and will be given a chance next season after he has time with the squad. In spite of this, the thread is constantly polluted by incessant complaining and negativity, which, in my opinion, really spoils the experience of using the thread for actual interesting discussion.
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Fair enough about this season, although I don't think he has shown anything to warrant not getting the sack, but we were talking about next season and your suggestion he will get half a season.

I don't think he will last very long at all if he starts next season in this manner.
 
Bobski said:
I agree, Amorin has been very poor in the main but the season was a guaranteed 100% disaster from the moment Ten Hag was not shot into the sun after the FA Cup final. The inevitability of what would happen was painfully obvious.
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Also looking 75% likely to happen next season too.
 
TrueRed79 said:
He's got himself into a right mess. Failed to win back to back games in the PL. Abysmal. The fact he has shoehorned himself into this is quite stark to be honest. To not be flexible with his formation when setting up is madness. He never had the players to play the system. I know he said that there will be a lot of pain on the way, but this league form is absolutely unacceptable. INEOS have created a giant shit show in hiring him. If he doesn't win the EL, can you really trust him next season? Not from what I have seen so far.
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Unless the club properly pull off some effective transfers in the summer and Amorim works wonders to make a really strong team outfit, it's very difficult to see an enjoyable season coming.

Top half suddenly looks a stretch, when we thought finishing 8th and the FA cup win, was absolutely disastrous last season - and that was with the injury excuse.

On the eternally optimistic side though, if we can actually keep what we do have fit, we do have plenty of strong defensive options, and some good mids. It's just utterly let down by the weakest attack in memory and players like Garnacho, Zirkzee, Hojlund and Amad pre injury having to take the whole weight on their shoulders.
When none of them should really even be starters at a United level club.
 
LordSpud said:
We'll get that Wolves manager in. He plays the same set up (according to my app anyway)
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More like we'll go for some big name past his best (Ancelotti?) who will revert to the standard 4-3-3 type formation, just after we've binned off all the wingers and sold Mainoo too.
 
Raoul said:
We hired him for a reason, which we properly deduced would take multiple seasons to achieve, which is why we gave him a 3 year contract. If at the end of year two, we (the club) assess there hasn't been sufficient improvement, then that would be the time to consider a change. Now would be completely nonsensical because he hasn't even had a single summer window, which in addition to the litany of other reasons, would be insanely counterproductive.
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We gave him a two and half year contract, come this summer he’s got two years left. When he play 3421 with your front three being a narrow arrowhead type formation, you instantly allow most teams that play 433 or 4231 an immense amount of space.

For those of us who go every week, you can see the biggest issue, opposing teams push their full backs high and they then push our wing backs into back defensive 5. They overload full back and inverted striker to find huge gaps in our back 5.

The two DM’s and Number 10’s form a narrow box midfield so this allows the opposing team to step up 30 yards their two CB’s are not worried by Rasmus or Zirzkee so they pick up the 10’s and then the opposing team midfield three over run our two sixes.

The football is the worst I’ve seen in over a decade , because the defensive Five is far too deep and we have no width or outlet to create passing lanes, hence opposing teams press us high up the pitch and our defenders look to hit a ball long and invariably give possession away and then we invite pressure again.

Most United fans know the issue the 3421 always reverts to 5221 and we end up defending far too deep in nearly every game. If you spend most of your time giving your opponents the ball and then defend on your penalty area, you inevitable invite pressure and then end up losing an awful lot of football matches.

Ruben Amorim coaching career at Man United all competitions;

Played Won Drawn Lost GF GA GD
34 13 8. 13 54 50 +4
Win 38%
Loss 38%

Premier Leagie Matches
22. 6. 5. 11. 26. 33 -7
Win 27%
Loss 50%


Those stats suggest he’s massively out of his depth and he might need to win the Europa League to even keep his job past the 8-10 PL games he will be on trial for at the start ofnext season.

If Ancelotti or Zidane becomes available, United will jettison Amorim without even a blink of an eye!
 
Raoul said:
Believe his Sporting side beat City 4-1 this year. City are obviously not their usual selves, but it was a good result nonetheless.
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Perhaps shows how dependent he could be on a striker.

Sporting also lost 5-0 at home to City under Amorim in a previous season.

Amorim's record in the CL before Gyokeres joined was quite poor against teams of a similar level to Sporting if we're to think Amorim is a top coach.
Won 2 out 6, scored 8 conceded 9
Won 3 out of 8, scored 14, conceded 17. PPM 1.17-1.25

We also have to take into account before Amorim joined Sporting they we're 3rd multiple seasons and off the top 2 by around 3-11 points.

PL teams really have our number with this setup. I struggle to see how we can get and keep the players fit to really challenge in the top of the PL and CL.
 
TrueRed79 said:
He's got himself into a right mess. Failed to win back to back games in the PL. Abysmal. The fact he has shoehorned himself into this is quite stark to be honest. To not be flexible with his formation when setting up is madness. He never had the players to play the system. I know he said that there will be a lot of pain on the way, but this league form is absolutely unacceptable. INEOS have created a giant shit show in hiring him. If he doesn't win the EL, can you really trust him next season? Not from what I have seen so far.
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Quiet a unique situation INEOs have got themselves into really. Second season in a row where they have an under performerming manager and need to decide to stick or twist.

Imagine they stick twice and sack again a few months in.
 
Sandikan said:
Unless the club properly pull off some effective transfers in the summer and Amorim works wonders to make a really strong team outfit, it's very difficult to see an enjoyable season coming.

Top half suddenly looks a stretch, when we thought finishing 8th and the FA cup win, was absolutely disastrous last season - and that was with the injury excuse.

On the eternally optimistic side though, if we can actually keep what we do have fit, we do have plenty of strong defensive options, and some good mids. It's just utterly let down by the weakest attack in memory and players like Garnacho, Zirkzee, Hojlund and Amad pre injury having to take the whole weight on their shoulders.
When none of them should really even be starters at a United level club.
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The only way that can see him turning it around is by winning the EL. And your point on our glaring lack of attacking talent is why I don't see us winning it either. Hope I'm wrong on that, obviously.
 
One thing's for sure either way the club need to be ready to act either way this summer, and if we do give him the chance they actually need to stick with it for a whole season as wrecking the squad for this esoteric formation experiment and then expecting someone else to be able to put something together from the bones of it we will be in the same situation next season where for 8 months people will just be like well another season right off as they have been so speedily to do this season
 
astracrazy said:
Quiet a unique situation INEOs have got themselves into really. Second season in a row where they have an under performerming manager and need to decide to stick or twist.

Imagine they stick twice and sack again a few months in.
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That's how I see it playing out.
 
Posh Red said:
There have been several posts questioning why he hasn’t been sacked already, when it has been obvious to many of us that he won’t be sacked this season, and will be given a chance next season after he has time with the squad. In spite of this, the thread is constantly polluted by incessant complaining and negativity, which, in my opinion, really spoils the experience of using the thread for actual interesting discussion.
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Completely agree. It was the same during ten Hag's second season. They were never sacking him before the end of that season, but hundreds of posts a week all calling for it.

Amorim is their choice for someone to build something over time with what they hope will be a better recruitment model that is data driven. They are never in a million years sacking him before the end of next season in my opinion unless we are in the bottom half of the table come February 2026. What I mean by this is that they aren't sacking him if we're day 6th-8th at that point. Yet if we are, you watch all the sack him posts in this thread.
 
Woziak said:
We gave him a two and half year contract, come this summer he’s got two years left. When he play 3421 with your front three being a narrow arrowhead type formation, you instantly allow most teams that play 433 or 4231 an immense amount of space.

For those of us who go every week, you can see the biggest issue, opposing teams push their full backs high and they then push our wing backs into back defensive 5. They overload full back and inverted striker to find huge gaps in our back 5.

The two DM’s and Number 10’s form a narrow box so this allows the opposing team to step up 30 yards their two CB’s are not worried by Rasmus or Zirzkee so they pick up the 10’s and then the opposing team midfield three over run the two sixes.

The football is the worst I’ve seen in over a decade , because the defensive Five is far too deep and we have no width or outlet to create passing lines, hence while opposing teams press us high and our defenders look to hit a ball long and invariably give possession away and then we invite pressure again.

Most United fans know the issue the 3421 always reverts to 5221 and we end up defending far too deep in nearly every game. If you spend most of your time giving your opponents the ball and then defend on your penalty area, you inevitable invite pressure and then end up losing an awful lot of football matches.

Ruben Amorim coaching career at Man United all competitions
Played Won Drawn Lost GF GA GD
34 13 8. 13 54 50 +4
Win 38%
Loss 38%

Premier Leagie Matches
22. 6. 5. 11. 26. 33 -7
Win 27%
Loss 50%


Those stats suggest he’s massively out of his depth and he might need to win the Europa League to even keep his job past the 8-10 PL games he will be on trial for at the start ofnext season.
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I don’t think he is out of his depth. He’s shown this season that he can go head to head with the best teams in the league. What other manager have we had after Fergie that goes to Anfield and looks like the team most likely to win. Get him a ST and creative 10 and we’ll be miles better next season.
 
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