Yeah what's he done since signing really
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach | Thread locked during matches
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
-
Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) discuss United's fantastic win away against Athletic Club in the semi-final of the Europa League.
They also pick out the positives of United's 4-3 loss away at Brentford, and Nik reviews a day out at Old Trafford watching Manchester United Women qualify for the Champions League.
Not true.
our defence is also worse than ever.
Amorim's Man Utd concede comfortably the most goals per game of any manager since Sir Alex Ferguson
Amorim's Man Utd side are comfortably the leakiest of any iteration since Sir Alex Ferguson left the club 12 years ago.
Conceding more than 1.5 goals a game puts him even ahead of Rangnick's sorry interim reign in 2022
Good point. You could even add Greenwood to that list since he would be a staple in our attack by if he hadn't done what he did. That issue is why I often say we are riddled with bad recruitment but also with a bit of bad luck. I might still come down to bad recruitment but for all the cash we invested into our attack, to not have at least one player to really be up for it, is statistically noteworthy (i.e. I would consider it that at least).
Many complaints about the individuals in attack which is totally justifiable but it's not the sole issue. United revamp the front three in summer and it's almost a guarantee the team will still lose considerable games next season. The biggest problem this season has been the defence and it's not a personnel issue, it's generally one of the most well covered areas for depth and quality.
It's the systems weakness in exposing the inside of the wingback and the space outside of wider central defender. The opposition / attacking team immeasurably offer a threat whenever the ball is in that segment of the pitch. That is 100% a coaching issue.
So in the event (hypothetically) United sign a winger and striker contributing 40 goals between themselves, the fixture against Lyon will be the catalyst. Whereby, the team scores goals and then concede equal or greater than the sum scored.
The defence is a bigger issue because it can't / won't be resolved with spending.
It's the systems weakness in exposing the inside of the wingback and the space outside of wider central defender. The opposition / attacking team immeasurably offer a threat whenever the ball is in that segment of the pitch. That is 100% a coaching issue.
So in the event (hypothetically) United sign a winger and striker contributing 40 goals between themselves, the fixture against Lyon will be the catalyst. Whereby, the team scores goals and then concede equal or greater than the sum scored.
The defence is a bigger issue because it can't / won't be resolved with spending.
Go back and look how well Onana was playing the first 10 or 11 games of the season when he was had more clean sheets than any other keeper then look how much his form has dropped off in the subsequant games under Amorim.
Wouldn't agree. The set of players we have is at least on a good level but they often have a big job ahead of them because a) the midfield doesn't do the greatest job of shielding them (often) and the more than problematic state of the attack makes every conceded goal borderline a loss as we don't score enough. I think, the poster has a point, the attack is a big issue right now, but the midfield is as well so we have to invest there as well. Investing into defense is something I'd try to avoid this year. We have enough players to play there as we speak. We extended Maguire for a lot of money. As long as we don't sell a starter (and I certainly don't see that happening) we shouldn't spend money in that area because the other areas have way more urgent needs.
I agree, my biggest criticism of Amorim this season is in this aspect of the teams play because it's the area where he as a coach is the most accountable.
Right and it's not unfair to say this leakiness is, in part, Amorim's fault.
People will argue that Onana's ricks are not his fault, Dorgu having a brain fart isn't his fault. That's true. However, he is watching these things happen over and over and demanding our players risk situations where their flaws will be showcased.
The way we play out, the shape, the approach, that's not our players deciding off the cuff how they are going to try and play out. That's Amorim's tactical setup.
He sees our players' weaknesses and demands they keep doing things that will expose those weaknesses. So can he be absolved of any responsibility when, inevitably, one of the back three dribbles down a blind alley or plays someone a hospital pass?
Wouldn't you agree that this might be connected with teething issues with the new system in place? Thats my take on the matter, it probably would have happened no matter to what system we would have shifted but yes, switching that "big" has certainly made that switch more difficult. I'd still say it is a bit about individuals as well. Our midfields aren't really balanced and for the most part, our wingbacks aren't good when it comes keeping a balance between attacking and defending. I'd also say, we are looking okay'ish defending wise most of the time, but there is a trend of getting punished even for one lapse of concentration.
Think, the whole team moved a step down, but thats probably down to switching formations.
A very good striker and a very good goalkeeper will surely help you (and any team, see Forest, i.e.) climb the table, yet this "cult" of Amorim promising otherwordly future success after a terrible present life is plainly awkward and a bit worrysome maybe? 
I'd agree to the observation and to put Amorim in the spotlight but what would be the alternative? Another year of Ole ball? Trying to grind results by keeping it compact and hitting teams on the counter? Its not a trick question, I guess, it would bring more results but we have been there a couple of times in the last years and it was never enough to finally evolve as a team to a point, where most of our rivals already are.
Only problem is, it's not actually his side, is it?
It does not make any sense if you think he's improved the whole of the first XI that the results are worse. I could make a spurious argument like Amorim has made Onana worse for example (he was actually top for clean sheets at one point, making big saves) but I'm trying not to just shoehorn a narrative.
Hoped he'd learnt something from the 5-4 against Lyon.
We were meandering again today to another 1-0 loss, and it's frankly unacceptable in my mind for a United manager to play this way. If you're going to lose at least give it a go and chuck on Obi at 60 minutes, don't care if you lose 2-0 or 3-0, at least give it a shot.
We were meandering again today to another 1-0 loss, and it's frankly unacceptable in my mind for a United manager to play this way. If you're going to lose at least give it a go and chuck on Obi at 60 minutes, don't care if you lose 2-0 or 3-0, at least give it a shot.
He's largely been given something of a free pass from the press and most fans because of how messy the club is off the pitch.
However, I'll maintain that if he doesn't with the Europa, the pressure will build very very quickly next season.
It's all well and good having a long term vision/project but very few managers ever get to that vision through when results go this bad. A trophy and Champions League qualification gives him something to cling onto over the summer. I fear for him if he doesn't have that.
However, I'll maintain that if he doesn't with the Europa, the pressure will build very very quickly next season.
It's all well and good having a long term vision/project but very few managers ever get to that vision through when results go this bad. A trophy and Champions League qualification gives him something to cling onto over the summer. I fear for him if he doesn't have that.
How standards have dropped.
I really don't understand the disparaging of previous managers. People talk about Ole ball with disdain because he didn't challenge win titles, yet Amorim gets elevated despite having a 50 percent PL loss ratio to date. Ole got us back to back CL qualification and was unlucky not to win the Europa. Even some people were trying to make out SAF was some sort of tactical dinosaur months ago. The same people will be lauding Amorim next season even if he does 80 percent of what Ole was criticised for.
This is an interesting point. It's kind of his side though isn't it?
He made the (probably) correct decision to bin Rashford and Antony.
He made the decision (presumably) to spend what little money we had on Dorgu rather than an attacking player.
He's made the decision to play 343 rather than be pragmatic and play something that the players (as bad as they are) are more familiar to get us a few points and maybe get us in the top 8 which would get at us some form of European football (the absolute bare minimum) and more prize money at a time when the club are cancelling staff Christmas parties to save a small amount of money.
Ole took over a considerably better side than Amorim that was temporarily failing because Mourinho had one of his customary meltdowns.
In hindsight, I don't even necessarily disagree that by and large Ole wasn't quite as crap as some make him out to be, but the fact remains that the squad that was handed to him was much better than the one we have now.
Yes, also individual mistakes isn't proportional to balance of play. United are not vulnerable at the back because of mistakes but because of the oppositions threat in the attacking third. The inside forwards / wingers United come up against have ample amounts of space if they drift 2-3 yards inside the space that is on the peripheral of the wider central defender. The goal today from Bournemouth was a direct consequence of this in the system. Bournemouth initiated the press to repossess the ball, but if you freeze frame that overturn the average positions of the United defenders emphasises the problem.
I don't think fans are noticing how detrimental this is. Dalot / Maz are two defensively responsible players and the system even when they have featured is still not catering to their positions when transitioning defensively. So if it's bad now with Amorim playing defensive orientated players, what's it going to look like with more attacking players in those positions?
The defence will undermine Amorim's tenure at United. Its solely his responsibility. I have no idea if he naively thinks five across the backline by numbers alone gives a team solidarity, it means absolutely nothing if he's not articulating to the players how to adequately cover those spaces.
Getting 80 percent of Ole’s results would be statue territory for Amorim.
Ole actually got us closer to winning the Premier League than any manager post Sir Alex and is the only one other than Jose to lead us out in a European final
No. It’s obviously not his side. One player doesn’t make it his side. Why on earth would you think it does?
Big decision for the club potentially coming. If he doesn't win the Europa the league form has to be considered. It's been horrific and whether people rate this squad or not it did win an Fa cup and finish top half last season. To sit close the relegation zone with only 6 league wins is totally unacceptable.
To allow him to rebuild off the back of such a blatant pig headed attitude is a scary thought. Why he didn't adapt to his squad until the summer is beyond me. You also have to look at the Rashford situation and ask yourself if he could have tried to work with him until the summer. Having him in our squad I'd be far more confident going into these final few Europa games.
To allow him to rebuild off the back of such a blatant pig headed attitude is a scary thought. Why he didn't adapt to his squad until the summer is beyond me. You also have to look at the Rashford situation and ask yourself if he could have tried to work with him until the summer. Having him in our squad I'd be far more confident going into these final few Europa games.
Thought it’d be interesting to look at Glasners statistics when he first went to Palace and compare to Amorim.
He plays 343, he went there half way through last season. Palace previously always played a 433. He also never got a window of new players.
So from his first 14 games , 7 wins, 3 draws and 4 defeats.
For contrast, Amorim has managed 23 league games and has yet to even get to 7 wins.
It doesn’t matter how much you try and spin things or give mitigating factors, overall his reign has been surprisingly quite bad so far.
My optimism for him being a success here has definitely decreased significantly with every passing game.
And very mitigating factor can be applied to other managers who’ve gone in at worse clubs with worse squads yet they’ve been far more successful.
He plays 343, he went there half way through last season. Palace previously always played a 433. He also never got a window of new players.
So from his first 14 games , 7 wins, 3 draws and 4 defeats.
For contrast, Amorim has managed 23 league games and has yet to even get to 7 wins.
It doesn’t matter how much you try and spin things or give mitigating factors, overall his reign has been surprisingly quite bad so far.
My optimism for him being a success here has definitely decreased significantly with every passing game.
And very mitigating factor can be applied to other managers who’ve gone in at worse clubs with worse squads yet they’ve been far more successful.
Its a bit obvious why he didn’t adapt though isn’t it? The previous 2 managers did and the club have decided to go in another direction
Whether he makes it here or not its clear the remit is not to revert back to previous ply style and to try and move forward to another.
Wait till some tell you Palace had/have better players and he didn’t have to contend with such an unbalanced squad.
I still want Amorim to be a success but so many are not even questioning why he’s not been able to improve us at all so far.
Managers are head coaches now. They're not given the luxury of building "their" sides. I thought we've already learned this lesson multiple times.
Yes, we need to get better players in, but at the end of the day, the head coach is tasked with getting results with what he's got.
I mean it’s just a basic fact that Ole had much better players to work with, especially in attack. People loved to shit on Pogba and Martial back then but they lap the likes of Garnacho/Zirkzee/Hojlund etc. Not to mention Rashford, Cavani, Greenwood all producing as well in the final third.
That difference in an attack is a fecking gulf in how results turn out.
Mate he was working with fecking Olise/Mateta/Eze. So yeah his players were better. Amad is the only player we have on that level attacking wise and he’s been out for two months. My goodness people wake up
Amad played on a regular basis for the first time. I'd say he would have "improved" even if would have been the manager. Maguire well, I'd say he hasn't improved at all, he is forced to play mostly by injuries and achieved a decent to good level. He was on that trajectory under ETH as well.
Casemiro is doing alright, nothing more than that. I don't think what purpose it serves to call that improvement. We found ways to make use of him, thats good and yes, he popped up with a few good moments here or there but overall, he hasn't had a good season just like everybody else in the team.
Thing is, fullbacks are required to chip in with the attack so there were always lacking. Becoming wingbacks emphasized an issue that was there before as well.
Was inconsistent before and is still inconsistent. I am also not sure how much of the 10 talk is really warranted since he appears to play pretty wide most games he plays.
Agreed. Although I'd say he had a subpar start of the season, he at least found form halfway through it and is the only consistent good performer the team has.
If Amorim continues on the trajectory he is on, he has to go as well. The thing is, Amorim has already shown he is able to oversee a rebuild and to create a very functional and modern team that was able to significantly punch above their weight class. Ole had nothing of that and it became apparent quickly, that he wasn't going to be able to evolve the team. Talk about past results is all fun and interesting but it doesn't really matter since most underlying metrics have already shown us to be on the way down. As happy as many on here were with him (and don't get me wrong, he is a likable guy and I am not resentful towards him) the time he had and the resources he used were time and money wasted. Us repeating that infamous feat under ETH doesn't change that since the goal shouldn't be to find something less bad but to finally find something good.
Good managers adapt. Slot is using different tactics at Liverpool than he did at Feyenoord, he's building on the pressing and quick transitions he inherited rather than patient build up he'd used previously.
You think we had a better front 3 than Palace last season or even this season?
Point is it's not the just attack that's the problem. It's everything. I swear Amorim gets easiest ride ever. Whenever we lose its the players. Whenever we win it's Amorim
Last edited:
It clearly is the attack that is the problem
Exactly - for Ole it was feasible to employ a basic game plan that relied on individual moments since he had that kind of talent available to him. Since that level dwindled, we weren't able to show such moments and subsequently the results fell short.
Mateta was woeful previously so did Glasner help improve him? Or was he just lucky? Do you seriously think Palace had a better squad than us at the start of the season?
I don't have the feeling it is that to be honest. I also read often that people would be happy with what is served at the moment. But that isn't the case isn't it? There is a impatient part of the fanbase who is already down to pull the trigger (no judgement) and there is another part of the fanbase that thinks that this would be a bit too soon. The players have been problematic for multiple managers by now, they are the problem - doesn't mean that Amorim isn't one as well.
100%. Just hoping when (if) we fix it that something else in the team doesn’t break completely. As it has been for years.
I don’t think it will. We’re not exactly over compensating like we used to