LEGEND: What defines a Manchester United Legend?

[topper]

I never implied they were on par football-wise. I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to understand that the Best reference was intended to highlight the fact that personal flaws are forgiven when some "legends" are concerned.

the point being that compared to Best - Beckham was a journeyman player and never a legend

 

[EricaNo7]

holyland red displays some real ignorance about United´s real legends -Beckham a great player a media whore a lapdog to Posh but never a United legend

ffs how can anybody be if they admit to wearing his missus knickers

my son ( 17 ) is a huge beckham fan - to the point that we actually become quite heated in discussing his merits.
he thinks he deserves all these england caps - i tell him he maybe deserved 70 or 80 at best, but he is completely deluded by " brand beckham "

 

[topper]

my son ( 17 ) is a huge beckham fan - to the point that we actually become quite heated in discussing his merits.
he thinks he deserves all these england caps - i tell him he maybe deserved 70 or 80 at best, but he is completely deluded by " brand beckham "

does he know that Beckham was fond of wearing Posh knickers quite frankly the image of Beckham in Posh knicks is enough to reduce a so called legend to the level of a farce

 

[holyland red]

holyland red displays some real ignorance about United´s real legends -Beckham a great player a media whore a lapdog to Posh but never a United legend

ffs how can anybody be if they admit to wearing his missus knickers

The easiest, most top-reddish reply to the topic would be Best, Law, Charlton, Edwards and a Meredith to boot. Makes one sound a real walking encyclopedia of the club. However, when trying to analyze objectively the criteria you find some inconsistencies and that's when all sort of smilies start piling up in the thread.

That's unless legends need to be in their 70's or dead.

 

[EricaNo7]

does he know that Beckham was fond of wearing Posh knickers quite frankly the image of Beckham in Posh knicks is enough to reduce a so called legend to the level of a farce

i've told him about all the ludicrous things the big pansy has done
inc. his plucked eyebrows and botox injections.
bobby moore must be revolving in his grave

mind you- these are the same generation who worship creatures like jade goody, kerry katona etc

 

[holyland red]

holyland red displays some real ignorance about United´s real legends -Beckham a great player a media whore a lapdog to Posh but never a United legend

ffs how can anybody be if they admit to wearing his missus knickers

the point being that compared to Best - Beckham was a journeyman player and never a legend

 

[Ixion]

my son ( 17 ) is a huge beckham fan - to the point that we actually become quite heated in discussing his merits.
he thinks he deserves all these england caps - i tell him he maybe deserved 70 or 80 at best, but he is completely deluded by " brand beckham "

Why does Beckham not deserve his caps? Its not like theres been a better right winger in England during his career.

 

[EricaNo7]

Why does Beckham not deserve his caps? Its not like theres been a better right winger in England during his career.

i said ALL these england caps

 

[holyland red]

my son ( 17 ) is a huge beckham fan - to the point that we actually become quite heated in discussing his merits.
he thinks he deserves all these england caps - i tell him he maybe deserved 70 or 80 at best, but he is completely deluded by " brand beckham "

You see, I don't give a feck about his England caps, nor about his career after he left United. I have never been a "Beckham fan", and as far as I was concerned it was "good luck and thanks for the memories" when he left. It's only his daft admirers and haters who are bothered with what he wears at home.

 

[EricaNo7]

You see, I don't give a feck about his England caps, nor about his career after he left United. I have never been a "Beckham fan", and as far as I was concerned it was "good luck and thanks for the memories" when he left. It's only his daft admirers and haters who are bothered with what he wears at home.[/quote]

i don't give a flying fig what he wears at home.
i do care however that he's still getting caps for 5 minute cameos and may go down in the record books as the most capped player EVER -
which i don't think he deserves even remotely.

let's not forget his illustrious campaigns in the 2002 world cup and 2004 euro championships - when he patently wasn't fit

 

[holyland red]

You see, I don't give a feck about his England caps, nor about his career after he left United. I have never been a "Beckham fan", and as far as I was concerned it was "good luck and thanks for the memories" when he left. It's only his daft admirers and haters who are bothered with what he wears at home.[/quote]

i don't give a flying fig what he wears at home.
i do care however that he's still getting caps for 5 minute cameos and may go down in the record books as the most capped player EVER -
which i don't think he deserves even remotely.

let's not forget his illustrious campaigns in the 2002 world cup and 2004 euro championships - when he patently wasn't fit

As I said, I wouldn't mind it if he scored an OG to prevent England from qualifying to the WC in his record-breaking appearance. In fact, for me that would make him a true legend.

 

[EricaNo7]

As I said, I wouldn't mind it if he scored an OG to prevent England from qualifying to the WC in his record-breaking appearance. In fact, for me that would make him a true legend.

what?

 

[The Law of Denis]

the point being that compared to Best - Beckham was a journeyman player and never a legend

You do realize that Best has played for more clubs than Becks ?

Another one I dont understand is Schmeichel, I think it was more supporting his kid than City. Schmeichel was probably as important as Keane/Cantona during the 90's if not more so. You won't realize because many of the crucial saves he made will go unnoticed - how many of you remember his save against Leeds when Cantona returned to Yorkshire for the first time ?

 

[Chris H]

United aren't an ordinary club and most players at United are very good players. Yes contribution matters a lot but if they're a fantastic player then they'd be making that contribution anyway. For instance a player like Gary Neville contributed greatly to our club but could you call him a legend because of the service he's given us?

No. He'll be fondly remembered, but not good enough to be a legend. But some of the players others have been turning down have been, in my opinion, quite a bit better than Gary. Not many right backs are remembered as legends of any club, unless their defending was truly heroic.

 

[MUFCgal]

No. He'll be fondly remembered, but not good enough to be a legend. But some of the players others have been turning down have been, in my opinion, quite a bit better than Gary. Not many right backs are remembered as legends of any club, unless their defending was truly heroic.

You don't think Gary Neville is a United legend?

 

[holyland red]

What does his number of England caps have to do with the topic of United legends. I stopped worrying about his career 5 years ago, let alone bothering how many England caps he ends up with.

 

[EricaNo7]

What does his number of England caps have to do with the topic of United legends. I stopped worrying about his career 5 years ago, let alone bothering how many England caps he ends up with.

because basically his career has been based mainly on spin rather than talent

 

[holyland red]

You do realize that Best has played for more clubs than Becks ?

Another one I dont understand is Schmeichel, I think it was more supporting his kid than City. Schmeichel was probably as important as Keane/Cantona during the 90's if not more so. You won't realize because many of the crucial saves he made will go unnoticed - how many of you remember his save against Leeds when Cantona returned to Yorkshire for the first time ?

I was referring to a derby when Peter Scmeichel played for City.

 

[holyland red]

because basically his career has been based mainly on spin rather than talent

What a bizzare comment. I'd be surprised if any player managed to fool Fergie for 7 long years.

 

[The Law of Denis]

I was referring to a derby when Peter Scmeichel played for City.

Considering his competitive edge I dont think United fans expected any less, plus he did phone Sir Alex before moving back to Aston Villa and City I do think. Many people get caught up in the heat of the moment, how many times in the past have you seen United fan players celebrating a goal against us ? It's very obvious that Schmeichel loves this club.

 

[Ixion]

If Beckham was an average footballler he wouldn't have become the media darling he is, regardless of who his wife was.

Beckham at his best was one of the best players in the world, he didn't recieve all the plaudits and accolades after we won the Treble (and the next few years) because he was married to a Spice Girl, it was because his performances on the pitch were amazing. He deserves all the recogition and success hes had.

 

[MUFCgal]

If Beckham was an average footballler he wouldn't have become the media darling he is, regardless of who his wife was.

Beckham at his best was one of the best players in the world, he didn't recieve all the plaudits and accolades after we won the Treble (and the next few years) because he was married to a Spice Girl, it was because his performances on the pitch were amazing. He deserves all the recogition and success hes had.

Well said

 

[EricaNo7]

If Beckham was an average footballler he wouldn't have become the media darling he is, regardless of who his wife was.

Beckham at his best was one of the best players in the world, he didn't recieve all the plaudits and accolades after we won the Treble (and the next few years) because he was married to a Spice Girl, it was because his performances on the pitch were amazing. He deserves all the recogition and success hes had.

you mean if beckham was average looking surely

 

[EricaNo7]

What a bizzare comment. I'd be surprised if any player managed to fool Fergie for 7 long years.

i would think it's bizarre that he can be mentioned in the same breath as robson or keane

 

[Ixion]

you mean if beckham was average looking surely

If he was average looking then he probably wouldn't be the media star he is, but he'd still be the same great player and would have helped us to the Treble and the rest. He didn't get carried by a great team, he played his part and it was nothing to do with his looks, wife, lifestyle, etc.

 

[EricaNo7]

If he was average looking then he probably wouldn't be the media star he is, but he'd still be the same great player and would have helped us to the Treble and the rest. He didn't get carried by a great team, he played his part and it was nothing to do with his looks, wife, lifestyle, etc.

who is the better player for you - scholes or beckham?

 

[Ixion]

who is the better player for you - scholes or beckham?

I'm biased because I've had Scholes' name on the back of my shirts for the past 10 years But they are completely different players, Scholes has a touch of genius about him that Beckham obviously doesn't, but Beckham at his best was still the best right winger in the world regardless.

What I will say though is Beckham was probably the better player (i.e. more consistant, bigger impact, not skill wise) for the majority of his United career till he left, he has since gone downhill a bit whereas Scholes has gotten better with age.

 

[GodlovesUnited]

If Beckham was an average footballler he wouldn't have become the media darling he is, regardless of who his wife was.

Beckham at his best was one of the best players in the world, he didn't recieve all the plaudits and accolades after we won the Treble (and the next few years) because he was married to a Spice Girl, it was because his performances on the pitch were amazing. He deserves all the recogition and success hes had.

I agree. He was the best winger, bar figo and giggs, of his time. The English never warmed up to him because they prefer the hardman, lion-heart player ( see John terry). Because becks is soft-spoken, has fashion sense (this could be posh's/his media consultant's doing), and embraced his celebrity status, he is disliked by many united supporters as being a sellout pretty-boy. I can't blame him for playing up his stardom and making his money off of it.

 

[vijay]

If he was average looking then he probably wouldn't be the media star he is, but he'd still be the same great player and would have helped us to the Treble and the rest. He didn't get carried by a great team, he played his part and it was nothing to do with his looks, wife, lifestyle, etc.

Whether he's born with good looks or not, had he curbed his media antics, he would've been an United legend, a better footballer, calling it a day from internationals before few years yet continuing to captain United but less on popularity charts.

He could've been more like Del Piero of today and respected.

 

[vijay]

I agree. He was the best winger, bar figo and giggs, of his time. The English never warmed up to him because they prefer the hardman, lion-heart player ( see John terry). Because becks is soft-spoken, has fashion sense (this could be posh's/his media consultant's doing), and embraced his celebrity status, he is disliked by many united supporters as being a sellout pretty-boy. I can't blame him for playing up his stardom and making his money off of it.

Bollocks.

Unfortunately it was only after he started captaining England, his footballing career went on a downward spiral when he started to beleive in his own hype. His performances in Euro 2000 and prior to that were far more better than 2002, 2004 and 2006 when he was totally rubbish, just the media wank and Japanese fans carrying him over.

But clueless English fans still adore him more than any one else. Big Man Terry is useless, should never get near the national team forget about captaining it.

 

[Ixion]

Whether he's born with good looks or not, had he curbed his media antics, he would've been an United legend, a better footballer, calling it a day from internationals before few years yet continuing to captain United but less on popularity charts.

He could've been like Del Piero of today and respected.

Thats probably true but its these flaws/traits that make these players who they are. In a perfect world the likes of Beckham, Best, Cantona etc. would all have remained at United till well into their thirties like Giggs and Scholes but for whatever reason it didn't work out that way. (And before anyone starts I am not comparing Beckham to Best or Cantona as a footballer, just using them as examples as their United careers ended earlier than they could have.)

Funny thing is I was never one of these huge Beckham fans and I've always said he isn't a legend, but I somehow always end up defending him on here because I just think you should give the devil his due and he was a cracking player for us.

 

[GodlovesUnited]

Bollocks.

Unfortunately it was only after he started captaining England, his footballing career went on a downward spiral when he started to beleive in his own hype. His performances in Euro 2000 and prior to that were far more better than 2002, 2004 and 2006 when he was totally rubbish, just the media wank and Japanese fans carrying him over.

But clueless English fans still adore him more than any one else. Big Man Terry is useless, should never get near the national team forget about captaining it.

I never said terry was worthy of being captain; I said that the british prefer a hardman-type player like him. Becks is a media icon in england, but from what I've seen he isn't too well liked. He is probably still liked by some england fans because of his heroics against greece, and is probably the best option on the right wing for the england team. But in general, england doesn't seem to like him, in part because of he's too "posh."

 

[VidaRed]

Vidic.

but unfortunately he doesn't get noticed by many utd fans.

 

[dileno]

According to me and the players I've witnessed and read about so far;

Duncan Edwards
Pat Crerand
Bobby Charlton
George Best
Dennis Law

Bryan Robson
Eric Cantona
Dennis Irwin
Steve Bruce
Gary Pallister
Peter Schmeichel
Ole Gunnar Solskjaer
Ryan Giggs
Roy Keane
Gary Neville
Paul Scholes

I will read my new United book I got this christmas and see what I might come up with except the excellent names above.

 

[sammsky1]

Why is Bryan Robson considered a United legend?

Wilkins was better than him before he was sold to Milan. McGrath was far superior (anyone who watched the side during that period of time will tell you that McGrath was the class act in the team). By the time we won the league under Sir Alex, Robbo was irrelevant. So in essence you are looking at his contribution towards a few cup successes. Most of Robson's heroics came playing for England not United.

Add in his drinking and more importantly, the terrible example he set to others in the squad with their lengthy sessions in the pubs of Hale and Altrincham and I'm really struggling to see how Robson qualifies to be a legend.

(I had a season ticket for practically the whole Robson era at United - think I missed his first year)

with respect, possibly the worst ever post on the RedCafe! Unbelelievable!

 

[sammsky1]

Dont see any reason to bring some personal circus to ridicule Bestie.

As for Beckham do you agree to the manner he negotiated his final two contracts at United? I dont berate over personality clashes of a particular player with Fergie. From Schmeichel, Cantona to Stam or Keane all self styled cnuts in their own rights, whilst Beckham's only personality clash was being thick, full to himself and isolating himself in the dressing room, unleashing the media whorishness through that dirty woman and above all he would also keep the good "Iam a true red and humble" side of the argument ticking through the media.
I cannot see anything good about him especially in his last couple of seasons with us, had Fergie not bridled him he would've dragged United down to England's level.

great piece of analysis. well put.

 

[sammsky1]

Interesting to see what the official club website has to say on this matter. The definition and criteria seems to be matches played for the club. ManUtd.Com lists the following players as legends:


Ryan Giggs Appearances: 778 Goals Scored: 146
Sir Bobby Charlton Appearances: 758 Goals Scored: 249
Bill Foulkes Appearances: 688 Goals Scored: 9
Paul Scholes Appearances: 582 Goals Scored: 139
Gary Neville Appearances: 554 Goals Scored: 7
Alex Stepney Appearances: 539 Goals Scored: 2
Tony Dunne Appearances: 536 Goals Scored: 2
Denis Irwin Appearances: 529 Goals Scored: 33
Joe Spence Appearances: 510 Goals Scored: 168
Arthur Albiston Appearances: 485 Goals Scored: 7
Roy Keane Appearances: 480 Goals Scored: 51
Brian McClair Appearances: 471 Goals Scored: 127
George Best Appearances: 470 Goals Scored: 179
Mark Hughes Appearances: 466 Goals Scored: 164
Bryan Robson Appearances: 461 Goals Scored: 98
Martin Buchan Appearances: 456 Goals Scored: 4
Jack Silcock Appearances: 449 Goals Scored: 2
Gary Pallister Appearances: 437 Goals Scored: 15
Jack Rowley Appearances: 424 Goals Scored: 212
Sammy McIlroy Appearances: 419 Goals Scored: 72
Steve Bruce Appearances: 414 Goals Scored: 51

Source:

http://www.manutd.com/default.sps?pagegid={12B35B6C-4309-4553-AEF4-050A3B899C97}&section=appearances&teamid=1445

 

[sammsky1]

I don't understand why anyone would have a problem with the media attention Beckham got/gets. While he was at United did it really affect the team at all? I don't think wasn't detrimental to the team and his performances while he was at the club were consistantly excellent.

Rose tinted glasses. Lets not forget that whilst he was saving Engerluung with lung busting last minute heroics, OGS had effectively played Beckham out of the team in the Right Midfield position. Ole was playing a blinder nad our beloved GoldenBalls couldn't get a look in. And on form, that was the right decision and backed by the faithful at Old Trafford. His performance against Madrid in the CL 1/4 final infuriated me. Playing his heart heart out like his life depended on it .... why was he not doing that week in week out? Well as time would tell ... it was a blatent piece of window dressing to market himself to the cnuts in Madrid. As I've written above, It was very evident to anyone who cared to notice that we were a lowly 4th in his priorities after his family, brand and international career.

His circus was one of the key reasons both SAF AND the squad began to fall out with him. FFS, imgaine what Roy Keane and the others must have thought when this over hyped player strutted around with his PA, security and hangers on. Preferential treatment, i'm different to you ... that does not rub at Manchester United, either with the manager or with the fans.

Compare and contrast that to Ryan Giggs. I remmeber being at University in Manchester when the young guns came onto the scene. If you remember correctly, Giggsy was a bit of a young playboy and had loads of media attention. We used to see him out and about alot at all the clubs and bars. I think SAF must have had a word (the famous night at Lee Sharpe's house) because suddenly he dissappeared from the scene. And then Becks came in and filled the void.

If Ryan Giggs, our most decorated player ever can adjust his life to fit that of his employer, then so could have David Beckham.

It really is as simple as that.

 

[holyland red]

If Ryan Giggs, our most decorated player ever can adjust his life to fit that of his employer, then so could have David Beckham.

It really is as simple as that.

Wrong.

The fact they were wearing the same shirt on a Saturday afternoon does not mean they had the same personalities. Obviously, Giggsy did better in handling the fame that goes along with being a football megastar which possibly explains why he didn't end up in the MLS. What me and a few others are trying to say that Beckham had a major contribution to our success during his time here.

Bobby Charlton didn't get drunk or disappear in Marbella, yet people are quite happy to refer to both him and George Best as legends for their contribution on the pitch during their time with us. If it wasn't for his troubled personality, Best would have played more games for the club.

 

[sammsky1]

Wrong.

The fact they were wearing the same shirt on a Saturday afternoon does not mean they had the same personalities. Obviously, Giggsy did better in handling the fame that goes along with being a football megastar which possibly explains why he didn't end up in the MLS. What me and a few others are trying to say that Beckham had a major contribution to our success during his time here.

Bobby Charlton didn't get drunk or disappear in Marbella, yet people are quite happy to refer to both him and George Best as legends for their contribution on the pitch during their time with us. If it wasn't for his troubled personality, Best would have played more games for the club.

if you read my posts, and the posts of many others who say the same thing, you will see that we are all IN AGREEMENT with this point.

Beckham was a fantastic player for us and made a huge contribution. And I salute him for that. He is just not a legend, rather joins a band of supremely gifted players whom we will remember with fondness.

This thread is trying to establish who the real legends are, and there is enough debate here from many for me to conclude that GoldenBalls does not deserve that status - for all the various reasons that are being shared.