LEGEND: What defines a Manchester United Legend?

[Sultan]

More than footballing abilities some players just have something about their personalities which creates a bonding with the fans, maybe it's a personal thing...Denis Law, Paul McGrath, Ole has this effect on myself till this day.

Many others on the list although great footballers, like Beckham, Smikes, Hughes, Ruud, and even Keane served the club with great dedication and distinction, and given me so many more amazing times, yet the heart just does not have the same personal connection.

Basically everyone's definition of a legend is different.

 

[Ixion]

I would say Charlton and Giggs are the two yardsticks for legends, if a player can be spoken about in the same breath as those two they're probably a legend.

(And I don't think its even up for debate about if Giggs is a United legend, hes right up there with the greatest players in the club's history.)

 

[SharkyMcShark]

How is Scholes' legend status even up for debate? I can understand the whole debate over someone who was fantastic for us but didn't have an amazingly deep connection to the club (Ruud etc), or someone who turned in a good extended shift and loved the club (Ole, Beckham, Irwin), but how Scholes doesn't make some people's list is mind boggling.

A bunch of fecking mugs we have on this forum I'm telling you.

Also I should point out that point 6 of the OP's legend criteria negates the first five.

Anyway, I agree that it is getting over used, but Scholes should definately be in there. And Ruud too for my money, but then saying that has probably already lost me most of my credibility that I'd built up.

 

[MancFanFromManc]

Its pretty simple really.......

play well, in a lot of games, for a lot of seasons

Not naming any names but..... If you're an arrogant gobby git, then you have to play REALLY well, and win the European Cup and the Ballon D'Or

Oh and some well placed "I love the fans, they've been great to me, best fans in the world" comments dont do any harm

 

[MUFCgal]

Being a 'MUFCgal', who do you think is the hottest/sexist ever player we have had?

TBH, I don't really give much thought as to who's the sexiest/hottest player we've ever had, I much prefer to think about who's the greatest player we've ever had

My all time favourite is Roy Keane, just love the man to death

 

[Chris H]

I would say Charlton and Giggs are the two yardsticks for legends, if a player can be spoken about in the same breath as those two they're probably a legend.

Which means there are about ten "legends" in all of English football in the years since WW2. Tough standard.

 

[Xander45]

Which means there are about ten "legends" in all of English football in the years since WW2. Tough standard.

To be honest, that does sound about right. If we're talking true football legends, the term can't be given to every bloke to play football for 20 years.

 

[sammsky1]

Fantastic thread bro!

thanks bro! Eid Mubaruk BTW! And Happy Holidays too!

 

[sammsky1]

I can't believe you left Rooney, Vidic and Tevez off that list.

Typo, or accurate (though grammatically flawed) assessment of Beckham's marriage? Bravo if it's the latter, very subtly put.

you indeed are truely refined gent with and have the art of interpreting subtlety to a tee!

 

[stevetheskier]

You left David Beckham, Kevin Moran and Stuart Pearson (and probably more names will follow) out of your lists.

As the stories surrounding Ruud's departure were made public I suppose his place among the legends is questionable now.

While Stuart Pearson and Kevin Moran are from my era of consistantly watching United and 'Pancho' is probably my all time favourite player, I don't think either are true legends. Pearson was a great player for United and his goal in the 77 Cup Final means he will always have a place in the hearts of United fans, but the title legend should be reserved for just a few very special players.

 

[stevetheskier]

It takes something else apart from being a great footballer to fall in to the bracket.

Legends, only Schmeichel, Keane, Cantona, Robbo and Moran fall in the barrier, may be Ole for the reason he was a **** figure, one player who epotimizes the measure of success under Fergie was all about.

Giggs and especially Scholes inspite being a better footballer than all those legendary names, falls short of the mark but can be regarded as Legends more to their longevity than any anything else.

Of the current only Ronaldo can cut it through, may be in future if he pledges his future with us, he has all the arrogance and cuntishness apart from being a great footballer whilst Rooney and co can end up there on their longevity with the club like Giggs.



Even in the post munich-Busby-PreSAF era not more than five or six players can have the legendary status.

What is it about Kevin Moran that makes you rate him so highly Vijay ?

 

[Forever Red]

What is it about Kevin Moran that makes you rate him so highly Vijay ?

Was thinking the same thing too

 

[FlawlessThaw]

I don't understand how anyone could not count Giggs as a legend. He is the epitome of an United legend for me. Look it up and you'll see Giggs's face there. He is more of an United legend than the likes of Schmeichel etc.

First of all he left City to be with us. Second he has been with us his entire career. Thirdly he's the leading appearance record holder and I could go on further if needs be.

In terms of United players past and present, only Bobby Charlton defines the club more the Giggsy. Put it this way; what Charlton was to Busby, Giggs is to Ferguson.

 

[Spoony]

What is it about Kevin Moran that makes you rate him so highly Vijay ?

Vijay was watching live first division football in downtown Bangalore in the early 80's. He was tough as nails, was Moran. Not a legend by any stretch, but not many are, are they.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

Oh right, I thought he was a big fan of hurling

 

[Spoony]

Could've been. I bet there was as much live coverage.

 

[stevetheskier]

What defines a Manchester United Legend?​

​

I’m currently reading ‘Manchester United – The Biography’ by Jim White. For those who don’t know anything about Untied pre SAF, it’s a great read and helps put into context all the major phases of our clubs history and evolution.

I now understand what older fans mean about Busby when they say that he a took a provincial club, probably no stronger than today’s Sunderland or Newcastle and turned them into the best club in the world. Along the way, he instilled certain values like being a family and backing youth that still resonate and flourish in our culture today.

Likewise, I never knew too much about the post Busby - pre Atkinson phase either and the way the club nose dived after 1968. For me, this makes SAF’s achievements post 1999 even more amazing.

One of the recurring themes of this book is 'what defines a Manchester United legend'? We have not had a proper debate on this for a while so I wanted to get one started over the holiday season.

My definition of a United Legend has several key attributes:

1. He must have tenure at the club
2. He must have played in a significant amount of games
3. He must have made a major contribution to United winning honors
4. His contributions should be for United and NOT what he has achieved at other clubs or within his international career
5. He must be loved by the fans
6. There cannot be any debate that he is a legend

Please do comment on any additional attributes you think exist.

I’ve split my list into 2: Pre SAF and post SAF.

Likewise please give your opinions on the players I have proposed and any that you think are missing with reasons why.


Pre SAF

Billy Meredith
Dennis Violett
Alex Stepney
Duncan Edwards
Pat Crerand
Johnny Morris
Bobby Charlton
George Best
Dennis Law
Steve Coppell
Arthur Albiston
Gary Bailey

Post SAF:

Bryan Robson
Eric Cantona
Mark Hughes
Dennis Irwin
Steve Bruce
Gary Pallister
Peter Schmeichel
Ruud van Nistelrooy
Ole Gunnar Soslkjaer
Ryan Giggs
Roy Keane
Gary Neville
Paul Scholes

Candidates from current squad:

Rio Ferdinand
Cristiano Ronaldo
Wayne Rooney
Carlos Tevez

Pre SAF list :-
I think you should add Bill Foulkes, he achieves all 6 of your key attributes.
I would omit Coppell, Albiston & Bailey. Coppell and Albiston were great players, Bailey was a good player at best.

Post SAF list :-
I would omit Bruce, Pallister, RVN - all great players but not legends.

Candidates :-
I would omit Tevez

 

[Yassir]

More than footballing abilities some players just have something about their personalities which creates a bonding with the fans, maybe it's a personal thing...Denis Law, Paul McGrath, Ole has this effect on myself till this day.

Many others on the list although great footballers, like Beckham, Smikes, Hughes, Ruud, and even Keane served the club with great dedication and distinction, and given me so many more amazing times, yet the heart just does not have the same personal connection.

Basically everyone's definition of a legend is different.

Completely agree.

For me the legends are (based on who I've grown up seeing):

Robson, McGrath, Cantona, Keane, Giggs, Ole and Scholes


And I really recommend the book by Jim White; a really good read.

 

[reelworld]

Giggs and Scholes shouldn't be up for debate.

I can't really imagine United without both of them to be honest.

 

[Chris H]

To be honest, that does sound about right. If we're talking true football legends, the term can't be given to every bloke to play football for 20 years.

The problem with that though is we're not talking about legends of the game - Maradona, Pele, Puskas and the like - we're talking legends of the club, or any other club. Matt Le Tissier for example would have no business being mentioned in the first group, but Southampton fans would probably be happy to put him in the second. And they'd have every right to, I think. Even a club like the Massives is entitled to a legend or two.

 

[Red For Ever]

What defines a Manchester United Legend?​

​

I’m currently reading ‘Manchester United – The Biography’ by Jim White. For those who don’t know anything about Untied pre SAF, it’s a great read and helps put into context all the major phases of our clubs history and evolution.

I now understand what older fans mean about Busby when they say that he a took a provincial club, probably no stronger than today’s Sunderland or Newcastle and turned them into the best club in the world. Along the way, he instilled certain values like being a family and backing youth that still resonate and flourish in our culture today.

Likewise, I never knew too much about the post Busby - pre Atkinson phase either and the way the club nose dived after 1968. For me, this makes SAF’s achievements post 1999 even more amazing.

One of the recurring themes of this book is 'what defines a Manchester United legend'? We have not had a proper debate on this for a while so I wanted to get one started over the holiday season.

My definition of a United Legend has several key attributes:

1. He must have tenure at the club
2. He must have played in a significant amount of games
3. He must have made a major contribution to United winning honors
4. His contributions should be for United and NOT what he has achieved at other clubs or within his international career
5. He must be loved by the fans
6. There cannot be any debate that he is a legend

Please do comment on any additional attributes you think exist.

I’ve split my list into 2: Pre SAF and post SAF.

Likewise please give your opinions on the players I have proposed and any that you think are missing with reasons why.


Pre SAF

Billy Meredith
Dennis Violett
Alex Stepney
Duncan Edwards
Pat Crerand
Johnny Morris
Bobby Charlton
George Best
Dennis Law
Steve Coppell
Arthur Albiston
Gary Bailey

Post SAF:

Bryan Robson
Eric Cantona
Mark Hughes
Dennis Irwin
Steve Bruce
Gary Pallister
Peter Schmeichel
Ruud van Nistelrooy
Ole Gunnar Soslkjaer
Ryan Giggs
Roy Keane
Gary Neville
Paul Scholes

Candidates from current squad:

Rio Ferdinand
Cristiano Ronaldo
Wayne Rooney
Carlos Tevez

There are a lot of "Greats" in that list but not a lot of Legends

Pre SAF I would go for
Edwards, Charlton, Best and Law and I was lucky to see 3 of them

Post SAF I would go for
Cantona, Robson and Keane

From the current squad
Nobody yet, but I hope that in time we will look back and see all 4 classed as legends, I think two are very likely but time will tell on Ronaldo and Tevez

Everyone on your list are great United players past and present, but by its nature a Legend has to be the best of the best, and for me its not just being the best player, its much more than that.

A list of this type is about opinions, and they will depend on each of our experiences, they will all be different. The best thing is that at United, over the years we have had a lot of players worthy of the debate.

 

[kundalini]

Why is Bryan Robson considered a United legend?

Wilkins was better than him before he was sold to Milan. McGrath was far superior (anyone who watched the side during that period of time will tell you that McGrath was the class act in the team). By the time we won the league under Sir Alex, Robbo was irrelevant. So in essence you are looking at his contribution towards a few cup successes. Most of Robson's heroics came playing for England not United.

Add in his drinking and more importantly, the terrible example he set to others in the squad with their lengthy sessions in the pubs of Hale and Altrincham and I'm really struggling to see how Robson qualifies to be a legend.

(I had a season ticket for practically the whole Robson era at United - think I missed his first year)

 

[vijay]

Vijay was watching live first division football in downtown Bangalore in the early 80's. He was tough as nails, was Moran. Not a legend by any stretch, but not many are, are they.

Not in Banglore then but more in Bombay and occasionaly in Singapore. Telecast of Serie A was more those days and as for big league football the highlights were few and far between, so whatever little of United seen during that period still remains fresh.

 

[Brwned]

Candidates from current squad:

Rio Ferdinand
Cristiano Ronaldo
Wayne Rooney
Carlos Tevez

Tevez really shouldn't be in there at all. Vidic and Evra have as much chance, if not more, to be a legend.

Which isn't much by the way, IMO.

 

[vijay]

What is it about Kevin Moran that makes you rate him so highly Vijay ?

As for Moran and legendry status, its just like Beckham and Sparky fans arguing they are all legends, when you get impressed with a player when you're a kid its easy to stick with them.

 

[Vidicious]

3. His best season for us was 1999 and he was amazing in the 1st half, silencing all the world cup boo boys. But our success in 1999 was also for so many other reasons, be it the heriocs of Stam or the dynamism of Yorke and Cole. And he did not 'play a blinder' in any of the lasy 3 matches that secured us the treble. And so he cant be credited for that success.

I agree Beckham is not a United legend but i disagree with this. Football is a team sport, he takes as much credit for our treble winning season as any of our regular starters that year. I dare you to name one single player who stood out from that season. You cant, we had the best GK in the world, rock solid defence, the best midfield in the world at the time and we had four quality strikers. Beckham takes as much credit as Yorke, Cole or Stam.

 

[Vidicious]

Tevez has a long way to go to become a United Legend. I think the situation he is in now is going to be the turning point in his United career, he needs to step up into next gear. Ronaldo, Rooney, Ferdinand, Vidic and Evra are the top 5 candidates at this moment in time, no one else comes close.

 

[sammsky1]

I agree Beckham is not a United legend but i disagree with this. Football is a team sport, he takes as much credit for our treble winning season as any of our regular starters that year. I dare you to name one single player who stood out from that season. You cant, we had the best GK in the world, rock solid defence, the best midfield in the world at the time and we had four quality strikers. Beckham takes as much credit as Yorke, Cole or Stam.

and in my list and legend candidates (asnd thats all it is, an opinion on legend 'candidates'), neither Yorke, Cole or Stam is considered either.

So in a roundabout kind of way, we are in agreement!

 

[Ixion]

3. His best season for us was 1999 and he was amazing in the 1st half, silencing all the world cup boo boys. But our success in 1999 was also for so many other reasons, be it the heriocs of Stam or the dynamism of Yorke and Cole. And he did not 'play a blinder' in any of the lasy 3 matches that secured us the treble. And so he cant be credited for that success.

I don't think Beckham is a legend but I don't agree with the last point, how many of our players did play a blinder in the last 3 games in 99?

Although I have to say if anyone was our man of the match in the Champions League final and did play a blinder it was Beckham, he won us the corner we equalised from and set up the winner with another. And he did equlise against Spurs in the league game, so its not like he went missing in those matches.

 

[hurstafus]

To me, a Legend is somebody who will still be remember by the fans in 20, 30, 40, 50 years time. Somebody who has had an effect on the fans, and who will technically be remember as long as the club goes on for.

Take what you want from it, but that's the way I see it. It goes with the actual definition of Legend, bar the mythical aspect, although it could be argued that the mythical aspect was in which the way they played.

I would list names, but the way I see it, everybody knows who their own Legends are, and that's good enough for me. They'll be lots of names who feature in everybody's list.

As for Giggs, he's been the best left winger of his time, and I wish he had decided to play for England when he was younger.

 

[VP]

By that standard, most clubs wouldn't have any "legends". How a player compared to others at his position during his career means less to me than the service a player gave his club, and the connection the supporters had with the player. That's the standard at every other club, and I don't see why it should be any different at ours. What matters is what he gave to the team not how good he was, in the lists we compile in our heads, compared to others at his position.

United aren't an ordinary club and most players at United are very good players. Yes contribution matters a lot but if they're a fantastic player then they'd be making that contribution anyway. For instance a player like Gary Neville contributed greatly to our club but could you call him a legend because of the service he's given us?

 

[Ole_Gunnar]

...People saying Beckham can't be a legend because of the way he treated the club during his last days, yet won't name Paul Scholes a legend, a top player who hasn't even got an agent ..

 

[MUFC07]

I don't believe there's a list of things to achieve to become a legend. No such thing as achievements in xbox that give you legendary status.
Circumstances help, the players you have arround, the manager, the other teams, etc.
Of course if you keep playing at the top level for some seasons you will have more chances of being a legend as the chances of doing important things grow.
The fact that you remember a player and say: Wow do you remember that goal/skill/assist/save?? Yeah and I also remember when he....fact here... or else. And of course being loved by the fans for what you can do inside the pitch is helpful as well.

But it is really difficult to become a legend especially for our club nowadays, you really have to be brilliant and loved, and keep it for years.

 

[Vidicious]

It may not seem it now, but I think in many years to come Van Der Sar will be looked back on as a legend for the penalty save which led to our 3rd European Cup.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

It may not seem it now, but I think in many years to come Van Der Sar will be looked back on as a legend for the penalty save which led to our 3rd European Cup.

I doubt it. Alex Stepney isn't remembered as a legend even though he made a fantastic last minute save to stop Eusebio from clinching the European Cup in 1968. If Van Der Sar had basically repeated his Community Shield performance last season then maybe.

 

[Spoony]

Why is Bryan Robson considered a United legend?

Wilkins was better than him before he was sold to Milan. McGrath was far superior (anyone who watched the side during that period of time will tell you that McGrath was the class act in the team). By the time we won the league under Sir Alex, Robbo was irrelevant. So in essence you are looking at his contribution towards a few cup successes. Most of Robson's heroics came playing for England not United.

Add in his drinking and more importantly, the terrible example he set to others in the squad with their lengthy sessions in the pubs of Hale and Altrincham and I'm really struggling to see how Robson qualifies to be a legend.

(I had a season ticket for practically the whole Robson era at United - think I missed his first year)

 

[EricaNo7]

couldn't have put it better myself

 

[FlawlessThaw]

Robson, Cantona, Keane, Giggs - Undisputable legends during SAF's reign.

The rest is all subjective and some have a stronger case than others.

 

[EricaNo7]

Robson, Cantona, Keane, Giggs - Undisputable legends during SAF's reign.

The rest is all subjective and some have a stronger case than others.

as long as pansy beckham isn't included

 

[holyland red]

Pearson & Moran perhaps. and I'm looking forward to the debate on Ruud.

I have deliberatly left out Beckham and imagine that will be one of the most contenscious and cause alot of debate. My views on GoldenBalls are as follows:

1. Towards the end of his United career, we were a lowly third or forth in his list of priorities after his family, his brand and his England career. His family I can live with of course but none of the others. His game suffered as a result.

2. the fame he has acquired post 2003 does not have any input into his status as a United legend.

He had still played longer for United than some of the players on your list

3. His best season for us was 1999 and he was amazing in the 1st half, silencing all the world cup boo boys. But our success in 1999 was also for so many other reasons, be it the heriocs of Stam or the dynamism of Yorke and Cole. And he did not 'play a blinder' in any of the lasy 3 matches that secured us the treble. And so he cant be credited for that success.

That's a load of tosh. Keane didn't play in Camp Nuo, and only played 6 minuted at Wembley so he doesn't deserve credit either? It was a team effort over a season and Beckham played a major part.

4. His fall out with SAF was spectacular and I will never forgive him for his 'me or SAF' charade and the alice band. Ultimatley, for him to be a legend for me, he should have made compromises within his lifestyle for the club. But he chose not to and that forced a parting of ways. He put personal glory above the club and for me, that is not United Legend behaviour which is exemplified within all the players I have listed.

George Best still found his way into to the list despite not meeting the criterion.

5. People like Law, Meridith and Crerand never even dared ask the club for a pay raise, despite being underpaid and achieveing considerable success because they respected what the club stood for. I'm not saying the club was right to have those policies, but they made huge sacrifices to play for Manchester United. David Beckham did not make any. Indeed he wanted it all his way.

TBH, I'm not sure Meredith didn't ask for another pack o fags a week. I still remember Keane grabbing the club by the balls. Rio and the Portuguese cnut have both made their financial worries public and you still have them with a shout for a legend status.

For all those reasons and a few more, I'd put Beckham into the bracket of 'great players' to have played for us: similar to Andy Cole, Paul Parker, Frank Stapleton, Jimmy Greenhoff, Ray Wilkins, Nicky Butt, Paul Ince, etc, but he fails to get into th top bracket.

He has been a legend to English football and possibly to world football for his entire contribution throughout his career, but does not get quite into the top bracket at Manchester United for me.

David Beckham is a Manchester United legend in every sense of the word. there was a clash of personalities between him and SAF and unfortunately one had to leave.
It's a pity he couldn't see out his career with us like Scholes and Giggs will have done which puts both on a different level- super legends...