Park's cross to Berbatov was brilliant because it should and did end in goal. That's the difference between a good and a poor cross. Mockney's quite right that the parametres for good football are far more objective than those for good music, so your analogy fails.
Music Mockney's Classical Music Thread
- Thread starter esmufc07
- Start date
Regarding the discussion upthread --
Both in football & in musical interpretation there are some things which are more difficult to accomplish than others - it's just a pure objective fact.
It's quite another issue whether those accomplishments leave you as a listener/viewer cold or turn you on -- *that* is the subjective part of the equation.
To use myself as an example, I do hear that Fischer-Dieskau is singing many lieder much better than Hotter, from a technical standpoint. But I do not care, as Hotter's *interpretation* is reaching so much deeper into my soul.
To use a footballing analogy, it's like admitting Ronaldo was a better player than Cantona, while still saying Cantona made me 10.000 times happier.
Here's Hotter singing Brahms' Vier Ernste Gesänge -
Especially 'Wenn ich mit Menschen und mit Engelszungen redete' is brilliant beyond belief --
Both in football & in musical interpretation there are some things which are more difficult to accomplish than others - it's just a pure objective fact.
It's quite another issue whether those accomplishments leave you as a listener/viewer cold or turn you on -- *that* is the subjective part of the equation.
To use myself as an example, I do hear that Fischer-Dieskau is singing many lieder much better than Hotter, from a technical standpoint. But I do not care, as Hotter's *interpretation* is reaching so much deeper into my soul.
To use a footballing analogy, it's like admitting Ronaldo was a better player than Cantona, while still saying Cantona made me 10.000 times happier.
Here's Hotter singing Brahms' Vier Ernste Gesänge -
Especially 'Wenn ich mit Menschen und mit Engelszungen redete' is brilliant beyond belief --
Just a quick bump with some Easter music --
The opening of the St John Passion by Bach ('Herr, unser Herrscher...');
The English Baroque Soloists & the Monteverdi Choir under Sir John Eliot Gardiner --
(The entire work can be found on that YouTube Channel)
The opening of the St Matthew Passion by Bach ('Kommt, ihr Töchter...');
The English Baroque Soloists, the Monteverdi Choir & The London Oratory Junior Choir under Sir John Eliot Gardiner --
Hans Hotter singing 'Wehvolles Erbe...' from Wagner's Parsifal under Hans Knappertsbusch (at Bayreuth '54) --
The end of Wagner's Parsifal ('Erlösung dem Erlöser') under Hans Knappertsbusch (at Bayreuth '51) --
The opening of the St John Passion by Bach ('Herr, unser Herrscher...');
The English Baroque Soloists & the Monteverdi Choir under Sir John Eliot Gardiner --
(The entire work can be found on that YouTube Channel)
The opening of the St Matthew Passion by Bach ('Kommt, ihr Töchter...');
The English Baroque Soloists, the Monteverdi Choir & The London Oratory Junior Choir under Sir John Eliot Gardiner --
Hans Hotter singing 'Wehvolles Erbe...' from Wagner's Parsifal under Hans Knappertsbusch (at Bayreuth '54) --
The end of Wagner's Parsifal ('Erlösung dem Erlöser') under Hans Knappertsbusch (at Bayreuth '51) --
More Easter music --
'Gebt mir meinem Jesum wieder', bass aria from the St Matthew passion by Bach;
Cornelius Hauptmann & the EBS under Sir John Eliot Gardiner
My all time favourite version is by Erik Sædén under Eric Ericson, but sadly I couldn't find it online to share it.
'Gebt mir meinem Jesum wieder', bass aria from the St Matthew passion by Bach;
Cornelius Hauptmann & the EBS under Sir John Eliot Gardiner
My all time favourite version is by Erik Sædén under Eric Ericson, but sadly I couldn't find it online to share it.
Some music to match the current mood of the Caf 
--
March from Music for the Funeral of Queen Mary by Purcell;
Baroque Brass of London under David Hill
Brünnhilde's Immolation from Götterdämmerung by Wagner;
Birgit Nilsson & The Sydney Symphony Orchestra under Sir Charles Mackerras
--March from Music for the Funeral of Queen Mary by Purcell;
Baroque Brass of London under David Hill
Birgit Nilsson & The Sydney Symphony Orchestra under Sir Charles Mackerras
Some music to match the current mood of the Caf
March from Music for the Funeral of Queen Mary by Purcell;
Baroque Brass of London under David Hill
Nani Nana - so perfect!
Wonderful suggestions, holyland red!
Here's Hans Hotter singing Mondnacht (Schumann/Eichendorff); acc. Gerald Moore --
A good night to everyone!
We'll win tomorrow!
ETA --
Es war, als hätt der Himmel
Die Erde still geküßt,
Daß sie im Blütenschimmer
Von ihm nun träumen müßt.
Die Luft ging durch die Felder,
Die Ähren wogten sacht,
Es rauschten leis die Wälder,
So sternklar war die Nacht.
Und meine Seele spannte
Weit ihre Flügel aus,
Flog durch die stillen Lande,
Als flöge sie nach Haus.
Wonderful suggestions, holyland red!
Here's Hans Hotter singing Mondnacht (Schumann/Eichendorff); acc. Gerald Moore --
A good night to everyone!
We'll win tomorrow!
ETA --
Es war, als hätt der Himmel
Die Erde still geküßt,
Daß sie im Blütenschimmer
Von ihm nun träumen müßt.
Die Luft ging durch die Felder,
Die Ähren wogten sacht,
Es rauschten leis die Wälder,
So sternklar war die Nacht.
Und meine Seele spannte
Weit ihre Flügel aus,
Flog durch die stillen Lande,
Als flöge sie nach Haus.
Some music to match the current mood of the Caf
This one fits better the current mood on Blue Moon
Very belated
I love 'Ich habe genug' with every fibre of my being.
Here's Allan Pettersson's Symphony No. 7.
"Teaser"
--Another Koopman/Mertens combination to bump the thread.
Wonderful!
Here's Jussi Björling with an absolutely heartbreaking rendition of 'Ombra mai fu' (from Händel's Serse (Xerxes)). It's as far from HIP (historically informed performance) as you'll ever get, but I love it with all my heart & soul.
Makes me want to launch into RAWKesque purple prose, so I'll put a sock in it.
Just listen...I only know the more modern version to Haendel's "Ombra mai fu" sung by Andreas Scholl. Never needed looking any further
Scholl's version is breathtaking, and so much more true to the intentions of Händel (as far as they can be ascertained). I just love that old dinosaur-Björling-recital-version with a fierce irrational love.I only know the more modern version to Haendel's "Ombra mai fu" sung by Andreas Scholl. Never needed looking any further
Here's Furtwängler & the Bayreuth Festival Orchestra in the Lohengrin Prelude --
Waltraute, was Furtwangler the best conductor ever? Who's your favourite?
Mine is Stokowski
Mine is Stokowski
I'm the worst person in the world to ask 'Who is the best?' because I'm so much of a fence-sitter. That's why I'm a joke on a football forum, too.
I can see the brilliance in X, and the good things in Y -- I do appreciate Z, but then again X did so well, given the circumstances...
But, yes, Furtwängler was bloody brilliant, especially in Wagner, Beethoven & Bruckner.
My favourite conductors will have to wait a bit, just as my reaction to that interesting article you PMed me (We're eating, then drinking, then arguing about United's season, then smoking, then drinking...
), but Furtwängler is up there, absolutely.Stokowski's great! Here's his Meistersinger Prelude with the London Symphony Orchestra, 1972 --
Might as well start before I go to bed.
Alongside Furtwängler, my favourite Wagner conductor is Knappertsbusch.
Here's his 'Verachtet mir die Meister nicht...' from Die Meistersinger, Bayreuth '60.
Josef Greindl as Sachs.
Absolutely shattering.
Alongside Furtwängler, my favourite Wagner conductor is Knappertsbusch.
Here's his 'Verachtet mir die Meister nicht...' from Die Meistersinger, Bayreuth '60.
Josef Greindl as Sachs.
Absolutely shattering.
Don't know if you could count this as classical, but it's an awesome piece.
From Solyaris.
Hans Hotter (acc. Gerald Moore) sings Brahms' Botschaft --
Not looked at this thread for a while but I am shocked that Gesualdo's Tenebrae was not mentioned in the Easter posts.
Does this count as classical?
Don't know if this counts but it is a mixture of classical and jazz. Absolutely stunning. The clarinet solo in the beginning is just perfect.
oh dear
I hope this improves someone's life as much as it improved mine
Nikolai Rimski-Korsakov
Nikolai Rimski-Korsakov
Time for some Walter Berry!
'Gebt mir meinen Jesum wieder' from Bach's St. Matthew Passion -- Walter Berry under Karl Richter
Walter Berry as Pizarro in Beethoven's Fidelio - 'Ha! Welch ein Augenblick!'
'Gebt mir meinen Jesum wieder' from Bach's St. Matthew Passion -- Walter Berry under Karl Richter
Walter Berry as Pizarro in Beethoven's Fidelio - 'Ha! Welch ein Augenblick!'
A great clip of Hotter as Don Basilio singing 'La calunnia' from Rossini's Il Barbiere di Siviglia. Sadly it's in German ('Die Verleumdung'). It's still absolutely brilliant!
I always thought mockney was more down with hoes and broes , stab , shank, pow pow gangsta rap.
Ok, so I'm trying to expand my musical horizons, and I'm leaning towards classical music
There are just so many pieces and styles out there, one gets lost. Look at Beethoven for example, the mofo has more than 500 sonatas and singles out on the internet, not to mention the remakes and covers and adaptations by other composers. That's only Beethoven. Then Bach, Mozart, and the other old legends, and the new prodigies, etc...
To cut to the point, are there any "Classical Music for dummies" compilations out there that introduce one to classical music? Or what method would you guys recommend?
There are just so many pieces and styles out there, one gets lost. Look at Beethoven for example, the mofo has more than 500 sonatas and singles out on the internet, not to mention the remakes and covers and adaptations by other composers. That's only Beethoven. Then Bach, Mozart, and the other old legends, and the new prodigies, etc...
To cut to the point, are there any "Classical Music for dummies" compilations out there that introduce one to classical music? Or what method would you guys recommend?
Your post makes me joyful! And yes, there are lots & lots of 'Classical for Dummies' compilations out there, but I'd say you're much better off listening through the clips in this thread. It's more or less impossible to assemble a canon to recommend to the newbie, but at least here you've got favourites posted from the heart instead of the definition of mediocre boredom ('Get to know football - Bolton!') presented in most 'Classical Introduction' compilations.
I'd love to post suggestions, and I probably will, but I honestly think the best thing for you would be listening through this thread.
In other news - pure harpsichord pwnage!
Thanks mate
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I've been listening to a lot of Beethoven and Mozart the last couple of days. I'm going to start slowly making my way through this thread soon. I love Moonlight Sonata.
So the proms begins this evening, one of our great and understated institutions.
Anyone around London going?
Anyone around London going?
what is it?