Yes, he's 100% correct. An easy way to look at it is to go back to the transfer threads of most of the players we signed. Most of signings we made were players we wanted and were excited to have join the club - Mata, Herrera, di Maria, Depay, Schneiderlin, Pogba, Mkhi, Bailly Lukaku, Ibra, Sanchez and Fred. The fact that none of them have improved is down to the coaching or rather lack of it. Most of these players started quite well only to follow the same path of decline. It can't be a coincidence that we all tend to agree that our signings are bad?
Fact or Fiction: Jamie Redknapp "Man Utd turning good players into bad ones"
- Thread starter meamth
- Start date
It is easy to see negativity but never see the positive side. Like few people around here. So while I can accept talking about some players nobody can deny that we are making players good to. It is just easy to talk now when United are not on top. As I said in another thread, there is lot of anti-United news and people love to see us failing. So what Redknapp says is just one more of those stupid comments that we see today that has no thinking behind.
Ibra was good before his injury. Fred has taken a large step forwards this season. It's the clubs and managements fault Bailly is made of glass? Some of the players you mentioned I could say okay but then you talk some pure bs right here.
Bailly may well be made of glass. But again, when almost everyone of our players gets injured for a lengthy period, you have to ask if there is an underlying issue behind these injuries?
Oh yeah but that's a completely different topic. This year has def been worse and that, I agree with you is 100% down to mismanagement if that's where your trying to go.
Rashford has improved beyond recognition since Ole took over. Jose used to love saying how terrified Rashford looked after a bad game, without admitting the reason was because his orders were to mostly defend rather than attack.
Greenwood, Williams, Scott McT, Martial, Fred have all improved under Ole.
We are a work in progress. Next transfer window is key.
I think hiring the wrong type of managers was our biggest mistake. You can't hire a defensive manager who has no interest in developing kids, at a club that likes to attack and develop kids.
Jose is hilarious. He hands Troy Parrot the match ball in front of the cameras, at the end of a Spurs game at the start of December, as if to show the world how great he is with kids. Then for the next 2 months, doesn't even give him a 5 minute run out in any game, despite Spurs struggling for goals.
Greenwood, Williams, Scott McT, Martial, Fred have all improved under Ole.
We are a work in progress. Next transfer window is key.
I think hiring the wrong type of managers was our biggest mistake. You can't hire a defensive manager who has no interest in developing kids, at a club that likes to attack and develop kids.
Jose is hilarious. He hands Troy Parrot the match ball in front of the cameras, at the end of a Spurs game at the start of December, as if to show the world how great he is with kids. Then for the next 2 months, doesn't even give him a 5 minute run out in any game, despite Spurs struggling for goals.
Agree, to suggest otherwise is daft.
Who?
Yeah I know what you mean though. It only takes one person then it spreads like wild fire. For instance Pogba will always be a virus even without Mourinho attached to him.
As for Kagawa that was more the Dortmund syndrome which will soon become the Liverpool one. Where players look better than they actually are because of Klopp.
More fiction than fact, I would say.
The most obvious (and damning) trait of United in the Woodward era is that we have targeted, and overpaid horribly for, players we never should have gone for in the first place.
Our most high-profile flops have not been brilliant players who went on to show their true worth elsewhere.
The most obvious (and damning) trait of United in the Woodward era is that we have targeted, and overpaid horribly for, players we never should have gone for in the first place.
Our most high-profile flops have not been brilliant players who went on to show their true worth elsewhere.
I do agree with him. I just remember United buy the likes of kagawa and mkhitaryan as the perfect role of no.10 we desperately needed, only to stick them on the wing and be surprised why they weren't performing. Every player we bought. Stick them on the wing hah. Even pogba is being positioned to be a 5th defender. So far down the pitch when he's so effective in attacking.
On the whole he has a point. The truth hurts.
But Redknapp can still feck off.
But Redknapp can still feck off.
Best edit that word out!
The ones ones are Di Maria and Lukaku - none of those were particularly awful with us either.
Di Maria is the most annoying, he was actually quite good for us but we played stupid 3-5-2 formations and had a very slow front line and defensive wing backs.
I wish he stayed 1 more year as he could have played with Rashford and Martial. That front 3 would have been awesome.
Di Maria is the most annoying, he was actually quite good for us but we played stupid 3-5-2 formations and had a very slow front line and defensive wing backs.
I wish he stayed 1 more year as he could have played with Rashford and Martial. That front 3 would have been awesome.
I disagree with at least half of what you said about each player. Prime example would be James. I would say "worse than expected, becoming worse". [SHIT]
It’s a bit lazy from Redknapp but there’s an element of truth to it, I guess. Depending on how pedantic you want to be. If our team has vastly underperformed in terms of the investment that has been made on it, it is 1 of 2 things or a combination of both - we’ve either overpaid for the players or the players/manager has underperformed/turned to shit for various reasons at untied.
Our scattergun approach to signings and employing managers with different football philosophies post SAF have often left our squad unbalanced, lopsided and underperforming.
So depending on what you classify as “turning players to shit”, Redknapp could easily have a point as we’ve burnt and wasted through a shit load of cash (second highest transfer spend and wage bill iirc?) for a squad/team that’s been performing at a Europa league level. There’s no denying that.
The semantics of who wanted to be here, or not, or who/which manager is to be blamed, is irrelevant. Personally, I’d just say that we’ve overpaid for a lot of players which have essentially “inflated” their football value and that coupled with a non-fit to the team/manager....recipe for disaster.
Just a quick look through our highest transfers (just calling this from memory so excuse me if I’m missing anyone)
Pogba - fan base seem split on him, I like him but I’d be lying if I said he’s improved with us, or even performed at the same level as before.
Martial - ditto Pogba (but he was a “talent” we bought and doesn’t have much to compare him to
Di Maria - flop
Mata - never lived up to his Chelsea form (whether we gave him the platform to perform is another matter)
Lukaku - flop
AWB - early but I like
Maguire - fan base seem a bit split, but early
Fred - flopped but pulling it back nicely
then there’s lots others.
Not one really outstanding high profile signing, is there? Or someone we can categorically say was better with us then before us
Our scattergun approach to signings and employing managers with different football philosophies post SAF have often left our squad unbalanced, lopsided and underperforming.
So depending on what you classify as “turning players to shit”, Redknapp could easily have a point as we’ve burnt and wasted through a shit load of cash (second highest transfer spend and wage bill iirc?) for a squad/team that’s been performing at a Europa league level. There’s no denying that.
The semantics of who wanted to be here, or not, or who/which manager is to be blamed, is irrelevant. Personally, I’d just say that we’ve overpaid for a lot of players which have essentially “inflated” their football value and that coupled with a non-fit to the team/manager....recipe for disaster.
Just a quick look through our highest transfers (just calling this from memory so excuse me if I’m missing anyone)
Pogba - fan base seem split on him, I like him but I’d be lying if I said he’s improved with us, or even performed at the same level as before.
Martial - ditto Pogba (but he was a “talent” we bought and doesn’t have much to compare him to
Di Maria - flop
Mata - never lived up to his Chelsea form (whether we gave him the platform to perform is another matter)
Lukaku - flop
AWB - early but I like
Maguire - fan base seem a bit split, but early
Fred - flopped but pulling it back nicely
then there’s lots others.
Not one really outstanding high profile signing, is there? Or someone we can categorically say was better with us then before us
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Abit harsh but identifies the problem. I don’t believe he’s that bad he just hasn’t been embedded correctly expect for go out and play son.Yes, this is what I think (or hope) too.
Anyway, Kagawa - yes. In a hypothetical scenario where Fergie doesn't retire but stays on to build another side, I can see Kagawa working out eventually (Fergie rated him highly). He likely would have shipped out Rooney - for one thing, setting up things differently.
Might have been the wrong fit regardless, but - again - Fergie rated him highly and allegedly told Klopp privately that he was sorry for how things worked out for Kagawa at United.
I hate that such a comment should come from Jamie Redknapp, but its got some truth in it.
Its not we turn them into 'bad players' its that we get them to play 'the United way' (but not the title winning ways) its seems whoever we bring in, nothing changes in the patterns of play/predictability we slip into and that we and have been doing at times, even before Fergie left.
The glaring weakness for me has always been mainly in midfield this has been a problem for a while, even Carrick (on his own) wasn't enough. I can count on one hand the number of times Carrick broke forward and carried the ball into the opponents box and on two occasions scored himself. Since Carrick left and with the exception of the cover Matic provided in his first season, our defence is/has been prone to getting rolled on the counter attack because we very often have no cover in front of them.
Apart from Pogba (when he felt like it) can anyone remember the last time a United mid-fielder regularly broke into the box beyond our strikers? Herrera once or twice, even Fellaini trying to get on the end of a long ball, but no one with the regularity of a Scholes, Keane, or (further back) Bryan Robson.
Our sideward movements wouldn't be so bad if almost every player didn't take at least three touches, rarely do we see one and two touch movements, but when we do deign to play like this we rock!
In short we seem to have (collectively) a lot of bad habits, example; scoring direct from corners is almost unheard of, the Jones goal against Tranmere will be placed in the Hall of Fame (or should it be Shame). New players coming into the club as well as many of our youngsters seem to slip into or sleep walk into these habits. Don't think it makes them 'bad players', but somewhere someone is not doing their job on this!
Its not we turn them into 'bad players' its that we get them to play 'the United way' (but not the title winning ways) its seems whoever we bring in, nothing changes in the patterns of play/predictability we slip into and that we and have been doing at times, even before Fergie left.
The glaring weakness for me has always been mainly in midfield this has been a problem for a while, even Carrick (on his own) wasn't enough. I can count on one hand the number of times Carrick broke forward and carried the ball into the opponents box and on two occasions scored himself. Since Carrick left and with the exception of the cover Matic provided in his first season, our defence is/has been prone to getting rolled on the counter attack because we very often have no cover in front of them.
Apart from Pogba (when he felt like it) can anyone remember the last time a United mid-fielder regularly broke into the box beyond our strikers? Herrera once or twice, even Fellaini trying to get on the end of a long ball, but no one with the regularity of a Scholes, Keane, or (further back) Bryan Robson.
Our sideward movements wouldn't be so bad if almost every player didn't take at least three touches, rarely do we see one and two touch movements, but when we do deign to play like this we rock!
In short we seem to have (collectively) a lot of bad habits, example; scoring direct from corners is almost unheard of, the Jones goal against Tranmere will be placed in the Hall of Fame (or should it be Shame). New players coming into the club as well as many of our youngsters seem to slip into or sleep walk into these habits. Don't think it makes them 'bad players', but somewhere someone is not doing their job on this!
Total none sense of a comment, if we make every player worse what are the other 15 teams in the league doing?
Most pundits are loving the opportunity to stick the knife in simply because we dominated them when they were playing. They know it’s not going to last forever so they are filling their boots to keep the media agenda against us going.
For me I think they are worried about us again, they can see what we are trying to do but won’t be positive about it, hence the mainly positive praise for Lampard being in 4th playing the kids and hardly and praise for us doing the same.
Most pundits are loving the opportunity to stick the knife in simply because we dominated them when they were playing. They know it’s not going to last forever so they are filling their boots to keep the media agenda against us going.
For me I think they are worried about us again, they can see what we are trying to do but won’t be positive about it, hence the mainly positive praise for Lampard being in 4th playing the kids and hardly and praise for us doing the same.
Hindsight is very convenient. Fact is most here usually wanted whoever the manager is wanted and Woodward got the manager his man.
We do turn good players into bad one. A club that is mismanaged tends to do that. Look at Johnny Evans starting now for a top 3 club whereas we pay 80 million for the CB they didn't know they didn't need.
I think Lukaku is the perfect example of mismanagement which fundamentally falls on Jose here in trying to turn the Belgium international into a hold-up striker in the Diego Costa mold.
Watching United lump ball after ball up to Lukaku in our away game to Liverpool in 2018 was an absolute travesty.
Watching United lump ball after ball up to Lukaku in our away game to Liverpool in 2018 was an absolute travesty.
I have to laugh at this place sometimes. Every single day of the year, I read someone posting that we turn good players into crap. If I had a dollar for every time I read someone say "even Messi would be crap here if we bought him." But now, because Rednapp said it, people are offended and their "blood is boiling." Lighten up.
Agree with this,some of it is players not being able to handle playing for the club and the constant scrutiny that comes with it. I certainly don’t think it could be said of Ole’s signings because he knows the pressure of playing here so I think he can identify the type of character, it’s just whether they have the skill to go with it and improve us.
Angel Di Maria but he just didn't like it in Manchester, had his home burgled and what have you. Lukaku is doing all right for Inter, still early days. Pretty much playing the same as always. Evans has played well since leaving, Smalling for Roma. Blind at Ajax.
Usually it's the squad rotation players that leave for first team football that play well, not the big names. We usually get the peak out of players (Ronaldo excluded).
Redknapp has a point that could be debated, he just didnt communicate it particularly well. Hes paid to be a pundit and create discussion and controversy, take with large dose of salt.
He has always come across anti man united to me and a bit of a slimy twunt. Ex Liverpool player - say no more. No wonder Louise fecked him off.
He has always come across anti man united to me and a bit of a slimy twunt. Ex Liverpool player - say no more. No wonder Louise fecked him off.
I personally don't think Evans would survive here. United is not a nice environment, there is a totally different level of pressure in comparison to Leicester and whilst this is my opinion - even as a fan of the club I'm not a fan of the support of the club (not talking about situations at the moment with Ed etc).
If half the fan club were partying a over Smalling leaving the club I really doubt that they would be happy that Evans was still here. As you say hindsight can be convenient because Evans was already here.
Meant players we bought post SAF and players under us.
Evans grew up at the club and played some big games which he handled fine. He's survive here as well as any CB at the club.
Don't read of click on this sh*t. Don't encourage them!
Load of cobblers. What does he know?! He knows as much about that as his Dad knows about opening bank accounts and paying tax!
Unbelievable that people are paid to say stuff like this. Essentially, "players not thriving & sometimes not achieving their potential in a team that doesn't fully function with lots of challenges". A much better angle is that it's something specific to do with United! Lol!
Load of cobblers. What does he know?! He knows as much about that as his Dad knows about opening bank accounts and paying tax!
Unbelievable that people are paid to say stuff like this. Essentially, "players not thriving & sometimes not achieving their potential in a team that doesn't fully function with lots of challenges". A much better angle is that it's something specific to do with United! Lol!
There's obviously an element of truth to it. Doesn't apply to players like Sanchez or Matic obviously.
It's Jamie redknapp ffs, don't listen to his nonsense.
I don’t think many players have thrived with us over the last say 18 months (we did have good periods with Van Gaal and Jose) but I don’t think we’re actively making footballers worse.
At one point I might have thought that, but I don’t anymore.
The only players I can think of that didn’t seem to recover from being here are Kagawa and Schneiderlin, but that’s all really.
Plus Redknapp is a buffoon, it was only a year or two ago he was saying Rashford should go to a Crystal Palace type club to develop; he knows as much about football as all of us do.
At one point I might have thought that, but I don’t anymore.
The only players I can think of that didn’t seem to recover from being here are Kagawa and Schneiderlin, but that’s all really.
Plus Redknapp is a buffoon, it was only a year or two ago he was saying Rashford should go to a Crystal Palace type club to develop; he knows as much about football as all of us do.
I've long subscribed to the theory that Ole's early success was partly due to the residual effects of Mourinho's coaching and by that I mean as miserable and as out of form the players were when Solskjaer took over, they were still a relatively well drilled side defensively speaking, arguably too much so.
Solskjaer came in and took the handbrake off, giving them far more attacking impetus and freedom which was great for a while but as the season progressed and they spent more and more time unlearning what came before, we became less and less organised.
So while I disagree with the idea that we are somehow making individuals worse as players, we have gotten worse as a collective. Sure we'll occasionally pull a rabbit out against sides that leave space in behind them but that's more of a product of individuals having good games than some overarching masterplan.
That's not to say it will be like this forever but it's something to consider.
Solskjaer came in and took the handbrake off, giving them far more attacking impetus and freedom which was great for a while but as the season progressed and they spent more and more time unlearning what came before, we became less and less organised.
So while I disagree with the idea that we are somehow making individuals worse as players, we have gotten worse as a collective. Sure we'll occasionally pull a rabbit out against sides that leave space in behind them but that's more of a product of individuals having good games than some overarching masterplan.
That's not to say it will be like this forever but it's something to consider.
Plenty of good players came here whilst Fergie was the manager and couldn't cut it, Veron perhaps being the most famous of them.
There's definitely been an element of mismanagement where a few of our recent recruits are concerned, and it's always harder to shine in a struggling team. However, other players have improved in that same period, which he conveniently overlooked, so I think it's a massive generalisation from Redknapp. Not surprising, since he obviously wants us to stay shit and for Fernandes to fail.
Maybe you should ask the question whether every player who joins our rivals has definitely improved? For instance, John Stones hasn't at City, does that make Pep a bad manager and City a toxic club? Of course not, that would be a mental conclusion to draw from his example.
It's a legitimate point of discussion as there are plenty of variables to consider, but Redknapp isn't that clever, he was just being a twat because it's open season on United at the moment.
There's definitely been an element of mismanagement where a few of our recent recruits are concerned, and it's always harder to shine in a struggling team. However, other players have improved in that same period, which he conveniently overlooked, so I think it's a massive generalisation from Redknapp. Not surprising, since he obviously wants us to stay shit and for Fernandes to fail.
Maybe you should ask the question whether every player who joins our rivals has definitely improved? For instance, John Stones hasn't at City, does that make Pep a bad manager and City a toxic club? Of course not, that would be a mental conclusion to draw from his example.
It's a legitimate point of discussion as there are plenty of variables to consider, but Redknapp isn't that clever, he was just being a twat because it's open season on United at the moment.
Fact.
Every player we sign looks great for their former club, starts off well at United then the longer they are exposed to our sub-par coaching team they visibly regress and within 6months, they're being criticised and verging on being considered deadwood. It's a concrete pattern, and unless we improve our coaching staff Bruno will go down the same route.
Fans may not like what he says but Redknapp is 100% spot on.
Every player we sign looks great for their former club, starts off well at United then the longer they are exposed to our sub-par coaching team they visibly regress and within 6months, they're being criticised and verging on being considered deadwood. It's a concrete pattern, and unless we improve our coaching staff Bruno will go down the same route.
Fans may not like what he says but Redknapp is 100% spot on.
To be fair Redknapp would know, he went from half decent to absolute dog shit in about 12 months.
I think that many of the players we bought had a lot of talent but the pressure of having to perform was too much for some of them. We always (Since 2013) needed our new signings to instantly deliver, we didn't have the good results or depth in our squad to relieve that pressure put on our new signings, unlike the other top teams.
We went through a period of having no leaders in the team and then added to the problem by signing more players who also were not leaders. This appears to be changing. Bruno, Maguire, McTominay, Rashford now and to a lesser extent Fred and Lindelof all have leadership qualities that we lacked under the previous managers.
Players who have failed here should look at their own deficiences.
Players who have failed here should look at their own deficiences.
Yes, good players have played badly here over the last few years.
It is harder to perform well in a dysfunctional team. Redknapp with another astute bit of insight that he gets payed millions of pounds a year for.
It is harder to perform well in a dysfunctional team. Redknapp with another astute bit of insight that he gets payed millions of pounds a year for.
There is an element of truth to it, but people will turn a blind eye due to who is saying that.
We've signed some absolutely top quality talent in last 5 years, none of them have even come close to matching the ceiling or consistency they showed at previous club which made us pay that money. Maguire, Sanchez, Pogba, Mkhi, Schneiderlin, Depay, Di Maria, Mata etc. The list is way too long, then you have likes of Lukaku, Matic and Ibra who did well but never reached the heights as shown earlier. Then there are signings who just haven't developed see Bailly, Dalot, Lindelof or those who have regressed like Martial.
If you compare the players which we have improved in the last 6 years compared to ones who have regressed, it's going to be horribly one-sided in favor of those who have regressed.
We've signed some absolutely top quality talent in last 5 years, none of them have even come close to matching the ceiling or consistency they showed at previous club which made us pay that money. Maguire, Sanchez, Pogba, Mkhi, Schneiderlin, Depay, Di Maria, Mata etc. The list is way too long, then you have likes of Lukaku, Matic and Ibra who did well but never reached the heights as shown earlier. Then there are signings who just haven't developed see Bailly, Dalot, Lindelof or those who have regressed like Martial.
If you compare the players which we have improved in the last 6 years compared to ones who have regressed, it's going to be horribly one-sided in favor of those who have regressed.