Rooney has to be in tier1.
OK so who are the united legends?
- Thread starter simplyared
- Start date
He wasn’t all that much more instrumental than a bunch of other players in that squad. Hence we won the league and made the CL final two seasons after replacing Ronaldo with Valencia and Michael fecking Owen. Ronaldo’s contribution to our success in that era is being inflated more and more with each year that goes by. He was an incredibly exciting young talent who was only just starting to develop into the player he would finally become when his head was turned by Madrid. That team was about so much more than Cristiano Ronaldo.
Carrick has to be on that list. Not tier 1 but a legend for us and still part of the staff after he retired.
Of course other players were instrumental, but none more so than Ronaldo.
In 07/08 he scored as many goals (42) as Tevez (19), Rooney (18) and Saha (5) combined - sure they contributed to his goals through assists.
In 08/09 only VDS and Vidic played more. Ronaldo played 9 more games than Rooney and 12 more than Berba, scoring 6 and 12 more goals than them respectively.
You say that people are inflating his contribution, but i'd argue you're diluting his importance. We were an absolute monster of a team in 07-09 and Ronaldo more than any other player was leading that charge.
Where would you guys put players like Butt, Phil Neville, Fletcher, O'Shea, Wes Brown? Obviously not top players quality wise but all of them spent 10-15 years at club, were part of great 99 and/or 08 teams and United's academy products.
See that’s what I mean about the rose tinted spectacles applied to Ronaldo’s time at the club. We were only between 4 and 7 points ahead of the team in third place in both those seasons. Not exactly total dominance. Nothing like Liverpool managed last season (or United managed in genuinely dominant seasons in the past)
In 2010/11 we were 9 points clear of second and third placed teams. I’m not seeing anything like the drop off you’d expect from losing such a hugely important player. Especially when you consider the players we signed to replace him.
Genuine question how is Ronaldo not a legend ? Hes possibly the greatest player to play for us recently at least im not old enough to of seen Charlton Best and so on but heres my list.
Ronaldo
Beckham
Giggs
Schmiechel
Keane
Scholes
Charlton
Best
Vidic
Ferdinand
Rooney
Ronaldo
Beckham
Giggs
Schmiechel
Keane
Scholes
Charlton
Best
Vidic
Ferdinand
Rooney
This is a dangerously accurate list imho. I'd put Hughes in T2 if I was being picky (mainly cos he was my favourite player I watched live as a kid)
McGrath and Coppell deserve a shout too. Kanchelskis anyone?
Nominating Fletcher and O’Shea yet omitting Law, 
who was not only club captain, extraordinary striker, best player Scotland ever produced and European Footballer of the Year, but The King. Charisma and a United legend before Eric was even born. Had the same effect on the club as Eric did 30 years later. Should never be out of anybody’s top 5.
this place.
who was not only club captain, extraordinary striker, best player Scotland ever produced and European Footballer of the Year, but The King. Charisma and a United legend before Eric was even born. Had the same effect on the club as Eric did 30 years later. Should never be out of anybody’s top 5.this place.
of course he did because they did all the fecking leg work for him. Never tracked back or even recovered lost possession like those others. Check out how many goals Rooney scored the season after CR fecked off to Madrid.
I think your T1 is pretty close. I'd add Carey and Whiteside to that list.
T2 - I'd take out Evra, Irwin and Bruce and add Ronaldo.
T3 - I'd take out VdS and add Rowley, Byrne, Taylor, Irwin, Dunne, Stepney. The last three played over 500 games.
Then there's a T4 which would include all those pre-war players that wrote chapters in our history Stafford, Roberts, Meredith, Spence, Silcock...
Wouldn’t bother, the guys a tool. I don’t think he likes talented players. Anyone who says Ronaldo was no more influential in those seasons ffs, is prejudiced.
You only need to look at the amount of goals he scored, the amount of first goals and winning goals. Vital goals in CL. To suggest any player came close to his contribution or that he was easily replaced by fecking Valencia well that’s absurd logic. SAF has him as the greatest player he’s every managed.
Roger Byrne, United captain at the beginning of Busby era.
Tommy Taylor - goalscoring machine, Di Stefano was praising him for his ability.
Jack Rowley - 211 goals in 424 games.
Dennis Viollet - 179 goals in 293 appearances.
Paddy Crerand - Sir Bobby Charlton's feeder of assists.
George Wall - Winger, helped big time (19 goals) in first successful title campaign (1908).
Tommy Taylor - goalscoring machine, Di Stefano was praising him for his ability.
Jack Rowley - 211 goals in 424 games.
Dennis Viollet - 179 goals in 293 appearances.
Paddy Crerand - Sir Bobby Charlton's feeder of assists.
George Wall - Winger, helped big time (19 goals) in first successful title campaign (1908).
Anyone who played a major part of winning multiple league titles, anyone who played a key role in a champions league victory. Anyone who excelled in the clubs barren years.
I'd then have a select few above the legends tier that are Icons of the club that are fewer in number (Fergie, Busby. Best, Cantona, Charlton, Giggs, Beckham, Scholes, Robbo, Keane)
I'd then have a select few above the legends tier that are Icons of the club that are fewer in number (Fergie, Busby. Best, Cantona, Charlton, Giggs, Beckham, Scholes, Robbo, Keane)
Isn't that because the other teams got significantly worse? 2010-11 United walked the league despite not being as good as the 2006-09 United teams that won it by very few points. Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool were regularly making CL finals and semifinals when Ronaldo was at United but they all dropped off significantly in the following years.
United after Ronaldo left is similar to Madrid now that Ronaldo left imo, both teams went down a level but the internal competition became easier since Barca have become weaker just like Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool did.
I don't think you can use points totals from SAFs winning seasons as a measuring stick. SAF never chased record point totals, he managed the squad adequately to get over the line in 1st and compete on all other fronts, too. We would always drop off big time after winning the league before the final week(s) of the season.
You also have to factor in the level of competition. Chelsea were also a genuine top team during those Ronaldo years and pushed us all the way.
You are right, the PL was the strongest between 2007 and 2009 with 3 PL semi finalists in all 3 seasons.
However United was far from being a team just inspired by Ronaldo. The main reason we won the CL in 2008 was that we added key players to an already strong team that won the PL the previous season. Especially Tevez and Hargreaves - yes they both left or failed later but in that season they were crucial to our success.
We had a great goal keeper, great defence, great midfield and great attack and it all klicked that season.
Ronaldo had a lot of great performances for us and scored some incredibly important goals for us in our best seasons, but let’s take 2007/08: He didn’t score in 17 league games. And in a few more he scored the 3rd or last goal when the game was already won.
In the CL in the same season Tevez saved us away to Lyon, otherwise who knows what would have happened. Ronaldo also missed the penalty away to Barcelona. He scored in the final but missed his penalty in the shoot-out whereas all out other 6 players scored and VdS saved the last penalty.
I have always liked Ronaldo and I wouldn’t have swapped him with ANY player while he was here, but he was far from being the only saviour of United’s successes as some of our fans seem to believe.
And for all the abuse his “replacement” Valencia has received or United in general for not properly replacing him, in the 4 years after Ronaldo left until SAF’s retirement we won the league twice, lost it once to Chelsea by 1 point and once to City by goal difference. Yes the league as well as United wasn’t as strong anymore but you can’t get more consistency than that over a period of 4 years.
What's legendary about Michael Carrick?
From a non Man Utd fan perspective...
Henrik
Charlton
Best
Giggs
Cantona
Rooney
Ronaldo
Gary Neville
Keane
Henrik
Charlton
Best
Giggs
Cantona
Rooney
Ronaldo
Gary Neville
Keane
I am far from bitter.. Every second he played for us was pure joy, and i for one cherish every moment of it. But i just can't call a player that left right before his prime a club legend. I just cant. It cant be just ability this is judged on.
Loved that guy bombing down the right wing and first winger we had since the horrible lost of Coppell to injury that really had me on the edge of my seat watching him play.
As for legends, as proven here, these are just popular contest among fans, as you have a guy who set out his 3 tier list in Harms and then another comes along and (not because I'm Irish) but adds "add whiteside to the list in tier 1 and take out Irwin for 2 and add him into tier 3" what ?
Do you even seen whiteside play, Irwin play ? As Irwin did what some fans here cream themselves over what TTA offers, well going forward anyway, as yes he (whiteside)had a couple of ok seasons, but nothing to say he's one of our top legends, as we were prepared to sell him to AC in 83/84 and not long after that his decline started just as AF arrived.
Now compare that to a player who can play both feet, score open play, free kicks, penos and still do his #1 job in defending and won all there is at club level and oh yeah, kept a class of 92 member becoming a regular like was being sprouted at the time by the english rags who claimed, neville will take Irwins place (snigger), please.
Like I said, these types of threads are just really what people personally feel about certain players. Point in case and while now it will be frown upon among some, I don't consider Rooney to be a legend.
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I don't know. My top ten might look like this (but then again, if you ask me again tomorrow it might be different):
(In no particular order):
Edwards *, Charlton, Best, Law, Robson, Cantona, Giggs, Scholes, Keane...yeah, that's nine. As for the last - Foulkes or Byrne, probably.
* The ultimate legend - for all sorts of reasons.
(In no particular order):
Edwards *, Charlton, Best, Law, Robson, Cantona, Giggs, Scholes, Keane...yeah, that's nine. As for the last - Foulkes or Byrne, probably.
* The ultimate legend - for all sorts of reasons.
I missed Paddy Crerand. He should be on everybody's list. Legend!
12 years in the first team, with him being a sure starter for most of that time, including the most successful period in the club's history. Cherry on top: Manchester United Players' Player of the Year: 2012–13.
I'm not saying that he belongs in the same sub-category as George Best, but he's undoubtedly a club legend.
Rubbish, there's a load more (and Ronaldo isn't one).
That’s some spin there around the league and CL in 2008. Here’s some stats :-
Scored in 21 league games, that alone, if he had scored just 1 goal in each game would have put him comfortably as our top scorer that season. Even without CL, FA Cup etc. Yet you try to make a negative of that ?
In 15 out of 38 league games scored opening goal. We went on to win 12 of those games.
In 8 league games he was our only goal scorer. We won 7 of those games. This amounts to 21 points. A minimum of 14 points extra.
Scored crucial penalty in last league game Wigan. Since you want to mention penalties he missed?
Top scorer in the premier league that season with 31 goals. 7 ahead of his nearest rival. Benjani scored more than any other united player. John Carew scored more league goals than Rooney who mustered 12 goals.
In CL group stage scored only goal away to sporting and 5 in total in group stage.
Laughably you mention Tevez scoring a crucial goal vs Lyon but fail to mention that was the first leg? And Ronaldo scoring the only goal in the second leg to win the tie. Jesus.
Scored the crucial first goal once again away to Roma with a brilliant header. Scored our only goal in the final with yet another brilliant header. Top Scorer in CL that season with eight goals. Yet you want to mention the one tie he didn’t score in ? Dirk Kuyt scored more goals than any of our other players in the CL that season.
In his six seasons at the club we won 3 league titles, 1 champions league, 1 fa cup, 2 league cups, 1 club World Cup.
In 11 seasons since he left we’ve won 2 league titles, 1 fa cup, 2 league cups, 1 europa league.
In The three seasons where he matured he scored a phenomenal 91 goals. Our second highest scorer in that period scored 61 goals.
You can try to downplay his contribution by putting a negative slant on it for some reason but the reality is, like SAF said, he’s the best player in Uniteds recent history by a distance and we won more in the six years he was at the club than in the eleven since. He won more points in the league for us in those seasons than any other player by far. Scored more crucial goals in CL matches than any other player. Scored the first goal in the fa cup final. Scored the first goal and only goal in CL final. Scored in both league cup finals he played in.
Football for sure is a team sport. That doesn’t mean however that all parts are equal and Ronaldo was definitely our most important player in that period by some distance. It took RVP to come in and have a similar impact for 1 season to ensure another league title, otherwise we’d have won only 1 league title without Ronaldo.
Only Best could be considered better. That’s debatable massively. No one else is close.Not even close
The other three are legends, CR7 isn't.
RVP is not a legend, nor is Andy Cole really. Sparky Hughes is.That legend term is a tricky thing. It is highly highly subjective so you can't say "he is and he isn't". You must take everything in consideration. And even that you can argue all day is he or not. For me things which i look are:
1) When you (or some neutral fan) mention player's name, is Man Utd first name which comes on your mind.
2) Was that player just quality player who we bought to help us to achieve our goals or he was much more.
3) Can that player after career say "We" for Man Utd?
4) Results in club
5) How he left our club
6) x factor
Some examples; Zlatan and RVP. Both have one excellent season for us but i treat RVP as our legend. Zlatan i don't. RVP's impact and aura around him was something special for me.
Phil Neville, Butt, Carrick and O'Shea. They were nearly whole career here and won everything. Only O'shea i rate as a legend. Don't ask me why, i didn't even liked him or rated him much.
Yorke, Teddy and Ole. Only Ole is. (Note; see, i don't hate the guy. Just don't want him as a manager.)
Stam and Bruce. Stam was world class defender and among our best in history. Bruce was just a very good defender. But Stam is not a legend. Bruce is.
Hughes and Cole. Both scored a lot. But i don't think that Hughes is a legend. Andy Cole (of course) is.
I can't talk about older players (of course that sir Bobby, Edwards, Best... are legends) but in my era i would say;
Rooney as no1. Others would be Rio, Vida, big Pete, Gary Neville, Scholes, Giggs, Becks, Keano, Bruce, Evra, Irwin, Cole, Ole, Wes, O'Shea, VdS, Rvp, Eric, Robson. Some are bigger legends some smaller but i rate them as legends.
From current players only De Gea.
And Martial
From your list of 'modern' players, I agree with most but these are not legends; Wes, O'Shea and RVP. De Gea is not even close.
I want to pose a hypothetical case. Let’s say United wasn’t as big as it is and let’s say it was closer to Barcelona pre Messi. If a player came along, like Messi, and literally made the team an all time great and then left because his personal dream was to play for some other club. Would he be less of a legend than someone else who absolutely loved the club, his dream as a kid was to play for the club etc etc, but did significantly less?
If you can't reach a consensus on what a legend is and how to define one, then you'll never reach one on who the legends are.
You are entitled to your opinion, but I’d like to know who you think is so much better than Cristiano that he’s “not even close” to being the best player.Not even close
The other three are legends, CR7 isn't.
Certainly nobody in the PL era, so we are going back to when footballers were playing against fat alcoholics.
George Best? A bit before my time, but from what people say- he went anonymous quite a lot but was capable of fantastic things, albeit against far inferior defenders.
Charlton? From the Best era but not as good.
Edwards? A lot of people mention his name, but I wasn’t around then and there’s barely even any footage from those days.
Cantona is a legend too, but nowhere near as good at football as Cristiano.
As i said, it is subjective and for Wes, O'shea and Rvp i can agree in some part. But Cole and Dave? How they are not legends? How in your criteria Hughes is and Cole isn't? How VDS is and Dave isn't? Is Ole legend for you? If he is then why Cole isn't?
I am not saying that either of us is right or wrong; just curious about your criteria
/thread
100% facts
I am not downplaying his contribution but just stating as it is. You say if he scored 1 goal in every game, but he didn’t. A player who scores 5 goals in 5 wins (1-0) has contributed way more than a player scoring 5 goals in 2 high scoring games.
Yes I didn’t mention some of Ronaldo’s important goals, but I didn’t mention Tevez’ goal against Roma at OT either and I didn’t even mention Scholes’ very important goal which put us in the CL final. Because I am not here to mention all of our players’ successes otherwise the list for a few players (including our defence) would be as long in those successful years.
And just for you:
I mentioned Tevez’ goal against Lyon because we were behind 0-1 in our first knockout game away until very late and were struggling. Tevez put us out of our misery and in the return leg knowing that we had already scored the away goal at OT even without Ronaldo’s goal we would have gone through.
I sometimes wonder how people can just look at stats without putting them into context and without taking into consideration that some goals are much more important than the goals which put your team 3-0 up.
I also clearly wrote that Ronaldo did very well for us, but it is equally clear that he was part of a very good and well functioning team.
Robson
Keane
Scholes
Carrick
Whiteside
VdS
Schmeichel
Neville
Beckham
Charlton
Law
Best
Ferdinand
Vidic
Giggs
Rooney
Keane
Scholes
Carrick
Whiteside
VdS
Schmeichel
Neville
Beckham
Charlton
Law
Best
Ferdinand
Vidic
Giggs
Rooney
Pre-1960s
Undoubted: Edwards
Yes: Carey, Taylor, Viollet, Colman, Byrne, Gregg
Borderline: Meredith, any other Busby Babe
1960s-90s
Undoubted: Best, Charlton, Robson
Yes: Law
Borderline: Foulkes, Stiles, Stepney, Crerand
PL era
Undoubted: Giggs, Scholes, Cantona
Yes: Neville, Schmeichel, Keane, Irwin, Evra, Vidic, Ferdinand, Rooney, Solskjaer
Borderline: Ronaldo, Van der Sar, Van Nistelrooy, Beckham, De Gea
Undoubted: Edwards
Yes: Carey, Taylor, Viollet, Colman, Byrne, Gregg
Borderline: Meredith, any other Busby Babe
1960s-90s
Undoubted: Best, Charlton, Robson
Yes: Law
Borderline: Foulkes, Stiles, Stepney, Crerand
PL era
Undoubted: Giggs, Scholes, Cantona
Yes: Neville, Schmeichel, Keane, Irwin, Evra, Vidic, Ferdinand, Rooney, Solskjaer
Borderline: Ronaldo, Van der Sar, Van Nistelrooy, Beckham, De Gea
Who is better? He’s been the only balon d’or for United in 50-60 years. He has been the player at the highest individual level at the club in this generation by quite some distance.Not even close
The other three are legends, CR7 isn't.