How far off is this squad from a title challenge?

Ole was not terrible in his early days. He had a plan and knew what he was doing (and there were a mix of tangible and intangible results to show for it). Some of us could see it, some of us couldn't. That's all.

Not too far

The most important things are the sales.

Do you remember when we had darmian, sanchez...

Getting rid of rojo, jones, lingard, mata, dalot, anderson, ighalo, romero would let spaces for other improvements

Personnel wise? Not too far, we have a very talented squad. Maybe need an actual star striker, a CDM, an attacking RB and a CB. Coaching wise? Don't think we'll be able to bridge the gap.Ole is doing a great job, but you just have to see how City are playing, without their best players to know there's a discrepancy there.

::sonny:: said:

Getting rid of rojo, jones, lingard, mata, dalot, anderson, ighalo, romero would let spaces for other improvements

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Anderson still here?? Hiding in the kitchen I bet.

RUCK4444 said:

Anderson still here?? Hiding in the kitchen I bet.

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Pereira, unfortunately Lazio would not sign him

We are currently challenging so...

Maybe it should be ‘how far off the title are we’

JJ12 said:

We are currently challenging so...

Maybe it should be ‘how far off the title are we’

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Watching this under strength City team tonight, I think the answer to that question is ‘a while yet unfortunately’.

::sonny:: said:

Pereira, unfortunately Lazio would not sign him

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Ahh Andreas. Cant blame Lazio really.

Somebody should be interested though. Lower level PL clubs could grab a deal.

Womp said:

Personnel wise? Not too far, we have a very talented squad. Maybe need an actual star striker, a CDM, an attacking RB and a CB. Coaching wise? Don't think we'll be able to bridge the gap.Ole is doing a great job, but you just have to see how City are playing, without their best players to know there's a discrepancy there.

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City have always had the best squad in the league on paper and are mostly their own worst enemies. They seem to over complicate things sometimes but when they get going they can really destroy teams and put long winning streaks together. Put a top class striker in and I don’t know if anyone in this league can live with them this or next season. I hope I’m wrong but that’s what I’m starting to see. Their defence has been the best in Europe over the last 10 games supposedly? Cancelo and Dias look great. Feckers.

We still don't play like a team comfortably enough to establish ourselves as the best in the country. I largely feel like performance and results merit the trajectory of Mourinho finishing 2nd our position doesn't reflect our displays but despite it all results are he most important element.

Player wise I think this squad is good enough now maybe with a fixing the defence but we will have to see how Solskjaer fairs with another 100 million, in the expectation should be from one more lucrative signing that we need to challenge.

Ali Dia said:

City have always had the best squad in the league on paper and are mostly their own worst enemies. They seem to over complicate things sometimes but when they get going they can really destroy teams and put long winning streaks together. Put a top class striker in and I don’t know if anyone in this league can live with them this or next season. I hope I’m wrong but that’s what I’m starting to see. Their defence has been the best in Europe over the last 10 games supposedly? Cancelo and Dias look great. Feckers.

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Yep, it's not down to just the personnel though. They have lost KDB and Aguero, arguably their two most important players from an offensive standpoint and their offensive game seems to still be incredible. The one touch passes, the movement etc. it's not something I don't think we'll be able to match over the course of the season. Ole has done great, but the difference in the two sides when we take off our red-tinted glasses is quite clear to me.

Womp said:

Yep, it's not down to just the personnel though. They have lost KDB and Aguero, arguably their two most important players from an offensive standpoint and their offensive game seems to still be incredible. The one touch passes, the movement etc. it's not something I don't think we'll be able to match over the course of the season. Ole has done great, but the difference in the two sides when we take off our red-tinted glasses is quite clear to me.

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Im confident we will score a few and play well tomorrow night against Sheffield United but yeah city have a bit more experienced quality in depth. They’ve recruited very well this time around it seems but I feel like we are also getting it right a bit more often again. Our team spirit might just see us through this season and we can beat anyone on our day but we are still lacking a bit of quality and depth in certain positions compared to other top clubs

Ali Dia said:

Im confident we will score a few and play well tomorrow night against Sheffield United but yeah city have a bit more experienced quality in depth. They’ve recruited very well this time around it seems but I feel like we are also getting it right a bit more often again. Our team spirit might just see us through this season and we can beat anyone on our day but we are still lacking a bit of quality and depth in certain positions compared to other top clubs

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Yep, I agree. We are very clearly improving and the shift in the mentality is clear too. It's a very weird season though, so who knows, but I just don't see how City slows down or gets beat currently. Seems like no matter who they lose, they don't lose a step.

City is looking ridiculous right now, here's hoping they start slipping

We won't win the title with this defense. City have conceded half the goals we have while scoring the same. Now, if Ole stops with the playing out from the back horseshit, we might have a chance.

City is back to their superb consistent form which in a normal season would finish near 100 points. Man Utd really have to step up to challenge them.

Gotta now have that winner’s ruthless mentality for rest of the season. We can sniff the trophy but each player in the squad has to up their levels ever so slightly.

Dias is their Van Dijk this season. He will have a blinder of a season and will probably be the reason they win the league.

DeGea said:

Dias is their Van Dijk this season. He will have a blinder of a season and will probably be the reason they win the league.

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Frustrating we didn't sign him

peridigm said:

We won't win the title with this defense. City have conceded half the goals we have while scoring the same. Now, if Ole stops with the playing out from the back horseshit, we might have a chance.

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But our attacks will be different then. Will we score as many goals while hoofing it out?

peridigm said:

We won't win the title with this defense. City have conceded half the goals we have while scoring the same. Now, if Ole stops with the playing out from the back horseshit, we might have a chance.

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"Stops with the playing out from the back horseshit" being exactly what Pep didn't do as he built title winning sides and indeed the very defence that have conceded half as many goals as ours.

sullydnl said:

"Stops with the playing out from the back horseshit" being exactly what Pep didn't do as he built title winning sides and indeed the very defence that have conceded half as many goals as ours.

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You need players that don't shit themselves when the ball is at their feet whilst being pressed by opposition. Or, at the very least, you need defenders that can pass accurately on a pass and actually get it where it needs to go instead of to the opposition where they turn it into a chance or a goal.

peridigm said:

We won't win the title with this defense. City have conceded half the goals we have while scoring the same. Now, if Ole stops with the playing out from the back horseshit, we might have a chance.

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Yeah no we should forget all the hard work Ole has done in improving this aspect of our game, forget the playing out from the back and go back to bypassing the midfield and smashing balls into the channel for our wingers to chase or perhaps we should re-sign fellani and launch balls forward to him and try and work of second balls.

That's definitely the way forward.

jamesjimmybyrondean said:

Seen this argument come around from time to time so would be interesting to know the Caf's thoughts

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This special edition ’case study’ news letter has been drawn up in response to a request from members of the Senior Officers Group. It tells the story of five families and their CAF experience along with comments by the worker involved. The first two have been provided by a voluntary sector worker based in a school setting, the third by a Behaviour Support Teacher, the fourth jointly by a school nurse, school staff and Behaviour Support Workers and the fifth is provided by an Educational Welfare Officer. Where possible we have used the exact words of the workers and parents taken from transcripts of discussions with them. The first two are exactly as submitted to us by the worker.

In a "normal" year where VVD isn't injured and City don't have that hiccup that they had, I'd agree with the people saying we're probably still a ST, RW and DM off.

Personally I believe that had we signed Haaland twelve months ago we'd be only be missing the DM. (I think Diallo will largely solve the right wing issue and in six months' time we'll hear a lot of 'Do we really want Sancho when he'll cut into Diallo's game time')

From there you get the CB and RB issue that eight billion caftards have pointed out but I don't think those are as crucial as the first three.

City have to go to Anfield next week then have Spurs and Arsenal plus Champions League restarts so as good as City have been lately they’ve got a lot of games coming up in an already congested fixture list.

I don’t think for a second we’re going to play full strength teams in the Europa League as it’s nowhere near as important as the league and I’d say Ole fancies winning the FA Cup too, are we as good as City squad wise ? No but we’ve not got the fixture list either and one bad result at Anfield in a game Liverpool HAVE to win could change a lot.

We've improved massively, we've got good squad depth and this is the first transfer window in a while where i don't feel we'll lose ground if we don't make a signing. Ole's plan is coming together and, while I have been Ole out, I have to concede that giving him time has been beneficial for the club at large (especially when you see Chelsea being back to square one post Frank). Its the best team and squad post SAF and I think we're an exciting proposition to a lot of players now.

With that being said, i still think our position on the table owes a lot to injuries and COVID impacts and I think its going to take a huge effort to win it. It wont be a failure if we come second to a team as developed and settled as they are but if we push them all the way then it would hopefully mean that we'd be assured of second or third with games to spare and I'd bite the hand off you for that right now.

Foxbatt said:

I agree with you. This is exactly why this has become toxic. Ole was terrible in his early days. He seems to have learned from his past experiences and doing a fantastic job now. It doesn't matter who the manager is at United as we all want him to win. Be it Moyes, LVG, Jose or Ole. At least for me. I am a supporter of Manchester United.

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Its toxic now that the team is winning ? What about when the team, players, manager needed the support when things are not going well?

Weren't you toxic then?

We are enjoying a prolonged bit of consistency and we have had this before then lost it. I still feel if we lost our best player, Bruno, we would struggle badly. When Liverpool upped their game second half we couldn't get anywhere near them until we brought Bruno on. I absolutely believe we will get top 4 again and Ole will achieve the minimum requirement to keep his job, provided Bruno stays fit. Will the glazers then provide the cash for strengthening in the summer? It's a big ask when the club are losing money.

jamesjimmybyrondean said:

How far off is this squad from a title challenge?

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One good transfer window, world class RW,CB maybe a DM too imo.

In summary, "Klopp and Pep both need to leave for us to win."
Pep and Klopp are the best two managers in the world. For us to win the title, both Liverpool and City need to have a bad season. Ole has done a great job and deserves to continue at United. But give all of Pep, Klopp and Ole the same team and we finish third every time unless injuries like Liverpool have had this season happen.

Dr. StrangeHate said:

In summary, "Klopp and Pep both need to leave for us to win."
Pep and Klopp are the best two managers in the world. For us to win the title, both Liverpool and City need to have a bad season. Ole has done a great job and deserves to continue at United. But give all of Pep, Klopp and Ole the same team and we finish third every time unless injuries like Liverpool have had this season happen.

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That's not exactly true.

If you give Pep a team that is not to his standard, I do not think he will win the league. Again, unlike injuries like Liverpool have had this season?

Why does everyone keep saying Liverpool have had it bad? they lost 2 CB's. City played majority of last season with Rodri and Fernandinho at CB.

Last season, we had Pogba, Rashford, Martial, Shaw, McTominay out for large parts of the season, the narrative was Ole is crap.

Dr. StrangeHate said:

In summary, "Klopp and Pep both need to leave for us to win."
Pep and Klopp are the best two managers in the world. For us to win the title, both Liverpool and City need to have a bad season. Ole has done a great job and deserves to continue at United. But give all of Pep, Klopp and Ole the same team and we finish third every time unless injuries like Liverpool have had this season happen.

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Love it.

The disrespect for Ole is strong on this forum.

Sure he's no Klopp and he's no Pep, but the way the team is playing now, with some togetherness and an eagerness to win is a joy to see.

I bet if we do win the league there'll be no congratulations to Ole and the coaching team but an excuse as to why he won not because we were the best team.

Oh the reason Ole won it is because Pep and Klopp had a poor season! Nothing to do with the players at all! It's all Pep and Klopps fault!

Not like Ole has got a rather good record against Pep and Klopp at all noooo, we can't include that!

Vs Klopp - P5 W1 D3 L1

Vs Pep P7 W3 D1 L3

Fairly even stevens if you ask me......not exactly a thumping the "Klopp and Pep both need to leave for us to win." would expect you to believe. Not a huge swing either way. But on the CAF we expect a 100% record otherwise you're a poor manager.

Just because they are the best managers in the world doesn't mean that they are unbeatable. No amount of excuses can give you the reason as to why a team won the league. The team wins the league because they are the best team over the course of a season.

We're top of the league (or at least we should go back top after tonight) let's be patient and see where this run of form takes us, you never know.....

Mike Oxard said:

Watching this under strength City team tonight, I think the answer to that question is ‘a while yet unfortunately’.

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I’d feel that way if they had thumped somebody other than a championship outfit.

Even though I still think City are rightful favourites for the title.

City are clearly the team to beat.

We can’t be beating the likes of Sheffield United by the odd goal.

We really need to be scoring four or five and conceding none.

Think a few months ago I posted (a slight knee-jerk post) that we were still 4 or 5 players short. Clearly anything I say should be taken with a pinch of salt! I would reserve my judgement as title challengers just yet, I think if we get to 30 games and we're still in the mix, then I would consider that a genuine challenge.

Looking at the team, we probably still need a top CB, a quality ball playing CDM, and a top CF. We need a right winger also, but we've bought Pellestri and Diallo so it's possible we won't look to strengthen there. Maybe Ole is content to leave Greenwood on the right, and gradually move him centeal when when Diallo is making an impact?

It's really hard to know, what I've learnt over the last few years watching United is that saying we need X and Y, and that only this system is the best, just isn't realistic. Maybe we only need one more player to have a Bruno-esque impact? Cavani was definitely not at the top of anyone's wishlist over the summer, and was Sancho really what we needed?

I think we have tried to fill too many gaps over the years each summer window, buying too many players. I would take one top class signing over 3/4 'quality' players any day. Those are the real difference makers. If we have 2/3 targets and only 2 are available this summer, then the squad is at a place right now where I think we can afford to wait for the right ones.

UnitedSofa said:

Love it.

The disrespect for Ole is strong on this forum.

Sure he's no Klopp and he's no Pep, but the way the team is playing now, with some togetherness and an eagerness to win is a joy to see.

I bet if we do win the league there'll be no congratulations to Ole and the coaching team but an excuse as to why he won not because we were the best team.

Oh the reason Ole won it is because Pep and Klopp had a poor season! Nothing to do with the players at all! It's all Pep and Klopps fault!

Not like Ole has got a rather good record against Pep and Klopp at all noooo, we can't include that!

Vs Klopp - P5 W1 D3 L1

Vs Pep P7 W3 D1 L3

Fairly even stevens if you ask me......not exactly a thumping the "Klopp and Pep both need to leave for us to win." would expect you to believe. Not a huge swing either way. But on the CAF we expect a 100% record otherwise you're a poor manager.

Just because they are the best managers in the world doesn't mean that they are unbeatable. No amount of excuses can give you the reason as to why a team won the league. The team wins the league because they are the best team over the course of a season.

We're top of the league (or at least we should go back top after tonight) let's be patient and see where this run of form takes us, you never know.....

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Ole has done very well, we are playing well, I expect us to win now even after going behind and if we win the league that means that Ole can reach Klopp and Pep's level. No one will be arguing about Ole if we win the league. He would have proven himself beyond all expectations.

There is no shame in not being as good as Klopp and Pep. There is no disrespect here. I just personally don't see us beating both Pep and Klopp over the course of a whole season. Although this might be an over reaction on my part to how City have been playing over the past month.

Are we not already in a title challenge?

romufc said:

That's not exactly true.

If you give Pep a team that is not to his standard, I do not think he will win the league. Again, unlike injuries like Liverpool have had this season?

Why does everyone keep saying Liverpool have had it bad? they lost 2 CB's. City played majority of last season with Rodri and Fernandinho at CB.

Last season, we had Pogba, Rashford, Martial, Shaw, McTominay out for large parts of the season, the narrative was Ole is crap.

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Lets change it to if all three were given top level teams as I agree if you give Pep a Newcastle he will struggle more than the other two.

Liverpool lost the best CB in the whole world who is also very handy on the attack. And if we lost both Maguire and Lindelof we won't be where we are at the moment.

Ole has proven most people including me wrong. He has grown into a good manager. I don't think he can take the next step because we don't play the way of the top European teams but I have been proven well wrong on Ole before.

Andrew Richmond said:

City are clearly the team to beat.

We can’t be beating the likes of Sheffield United by the odd goal.

We really need to be scoring four or five and conceding none.

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You get three points no matter how much you win by, very very rare for a title to be decided by goal difference. Win the game that's all that matters doesn't matter if we win 1-0 with a scabby goal or put 6 past them in a mauling. Its three points on the board and it keeps us top.

Dont worry about city slapping 5 past West Brom who are pretty poor really, the way big sam sets his team up is generally cannon fodder for pep(much like burnley).

Just keep winning games and keep the pressure on city and hopefully they come unstuck at some point and we dont.