25

Something something they aren't Messi/Ronaldo level worldbeaters by 18 ergo they're shit something something.

Interesting thread. Henderson is only 23 too. (24 on Friday)

Saw the title and thought of my man Tony V.

You're right though, so much potential in this squad.

We've had great players in the past = our players need to be as great as them it's the united way.. and all that jazz

Not a big fan of Adele to be honest, but I'm sure it's a fine album.

Anyway, yeah... think people do forget that 25-28 is still when many (most?) footballers will peak.

Good point, but I think the arrival of Telles lit a fire under Shaw, thank goodness, rather than Shaw just getting better with age.

For me it shows how important competition is... you not only get better performances from the players whose places are under threat, you also have a backup player who isn't far off the main player.

Add to that Dalot (22 soon) and Pereira+Lingard (25) who all will return in the summer and bolster the squad.

I honestly thought he was in his late 20's. Superb LB at the moment and so happy he's found his form back after all the criticism he was receiving early on.

With Shaw to me it's simple - people talk about Ole, Telles etc and they will have played a part

But for the first time ever he's stayed injury free for a sustained period - the talent was always there but he's basically not been fully fit and in a settled team ever before for us

But yes we have a young squad so inconsistencies are normal

You could be right, someone like AWB hasn't really played a lot of senior football before joining the club.

I still think Shaw is a special case. His 2018/2019 was basically his 1st season with us, he got better in 2019/2020 and reached his peak this season.

The leg break in 2015 messed up the timeline of his development. Remember how he started that season, he was also our best player. Those couple of runs he made yesterday were a constant feature back then. Even now at times, he seems careful of not going at full speed with the ball but the ability has been there from the beginning.

There's no doubt he needed a more gentle approach after coming back from his injury.

Jesus is he only 25 years old? It feels like he's been here forever, I keep thinking he's kicking on for 30.

Rood said:

With Shaw to me it's simple - people talk about Ole, Telles etc and they will have played a part

But for the first time ever he's stayed injury free for a sustained period - the talent was always there but he's basically not been fully fit and in a settled team ever before for us

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Yeah agree and was about to post similar. Whenever he's has a sustained period in the team his quality has shone through. Prior to the leg break he was playing as well as he is now, in fact going forward he was perhaps a tad even more dynamic, he was on absolute fire in that period, like now.

Excellent player for us. Integral to the threat down that left side as well.

He came to us very young..

Aside from Mourinho I think the biggest problem he had was all the injuries he'd constantly pick up. He won player of the season that one season where he managed to get to 40 appearances for us but elsewise there's been a lot of niggling injuries.

It's the one thing that's stopped him from dribbling like he did for his goal yesterday - he avoids it because it tends to get him injured. Even yesterday he went down once or twice after a dribble.

He's always been a very good player - in his first season with us he'd regularly dribble like he did yesterday. But the big leg break and the constant injuries made him stop playing like that - I'm hoping he can sort of get used to his body as he gets older and avoid getting the injuries as much. People talk about Telles but it's the injuries that are the biggest thing with Shaw. Remember that last season Williams played a lot at LB.

With the right signings this squad is primed to challenge for titles, reminds me of 2005 to 2007.

Question is whether we have the manager to challenge, and whether he will be backed like his counterparts at City and Chelsea

Fair point, no doubt.

There have always been outliers who hit the ground running before they turned 20, but in general footballers take some years to mature. I don't think that has changed, really.

People are blinded by the likes of Haaland and Mbappé - but they too are outliers. Possibly even Rooney style players - who knows - who might slow down prematurely down the line.

Shaw was considered a super talent when we purchased him. Then he had his share of problems with injuries. Was basically written off entirely at one point.

But he's 25 years of age. Evra was 25 when he came to United - as a nobody, relatively speaking, as a punt on the highest level.

Players like Mbappe and Haaland really skew how far developed football players generally are at this stage in their careers. MOST professional football players are squad players around that age, or they are out on loan in lower divisions or on loan to lower quality teams than the one they are trying to break through to.

Idxomer said:

You could be right, someone like AWB hasn't really played a lot of senior football before joining the club.

I still think Shaw is a special case. His 2018/2019 was basically his 1st season with us, he got better in 2019/2020 and reached his peak this season.

The leg break in 2015 messed up the timeline of his development. Remember how he started that season, he was also our best player. Those couple of runs he made yesterday were a constant feature back then. Even now at times, he seems careful of not going at full speed with the ball but the ability has been there from the beginning.

There's no doubt he needed a more gentle approach after coming back from his injury.

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Depay also looked way better before Shaw got injured. Sucky state of affairs.

Shaw is about of a special case in that he was highly touted at 17/18, so expectations have long been over the top, despite him showing very good glimpses in between injuries.

The fact he is still only 25 is great, I don’t think many would bat an eyelid if you’d said he was 4/5 years older and we’d already experienced his peak years. But he actually has all that ahead of him.

Hope to see some of the other talented but sometimes inconsistent players come into their own in the same way.

We have a very young squad. I actually think a big part of Shaws improvement has been him maturing as a person and becoming a father.

When he was younger you'd hear reports about his lifestyle, blaming his mum for him not waking him up so he's late for training, and basically living like a student.

Samid said:

Add to that Dalot (22 soon) and Pereira+Lingard (25) who all will return in the summer and bolster the squad.

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yeah so Lingard is actually 28

Pogue Mahone said:

He has had a muscular injury this season, though. Excellent up until that injury and picked up right where he left off as soon as he recovered.

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I think he only missed a week or two IIRC? So not a big issue like always before

Also creating a settled partnership with Rashford makes a big difference, one of the other reasons I wasn't happy when Ole shifted Marcus central and even right side

There is still something in your original point though

It’s true and something that is often overlooked. We do have a team that should hopefully peak together. I mentioned elsewhere today on this forum that Michael Edward deliberately pursued this strategy and it worked, but it’s also the reason they have just plummeted overnight...because several players are trending down together at the same time and it’s making the difference between 1-0 wins and 0-1 defeats right now.

The trick for sustaining a challenge is making sure you don’t just let all of your players peak together without having adequate players waiting to take over. It sounds crazy but a great club who plan to stay great should be looking at the situation now already and thinking about what comes next after Shaw, Maguire, Lindelof, De Gea, Fred, Fernandes etc...

I do actually believe we are thinking that way now and that’s another reason I believe Ole is doing a better job than he gets credit for.

I can see a scenario whereby we add one or maybe two young Adacemy players to the squad every season and buy one or two quality players every Summer and if we do that right, I guarantee we will start to win trophies again. It’s obvious there is a plan now, unlike under the previous management

Counterfactual said:

Good point, but I think the arrival of Telles lit a fire under Shaw, thank goodness, rather than Shaw just getting better with age.

For me it shows how important competition is... you not only get better performances from the players whose places are under threat, you also have a backup player who isn't far off the main player.

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don’t think it’s just that, Telles allows Shaw to be managed - especially earlier in the season, this has likely deducted the probability of niggling injuries that kept knocking him back.

Telles provides adequate cover and a level of competition, that I don’t think he’s ever had at United.

Martial just turned 25. Henderson is 23. Diallo is just a kid.

Bruno, Lindelof and Bailly are 26, so they are probably in the beginning of their prime.

Maguire, Fred, Pogba and Telles just turned/soon turns 28 so they are probably in the middle of their prime.

We're a very young side for sure.

Zen86 said:

Jesus is he only 25 years old? It feels like he's been here forever, I keep thinking he's kicking on for 30.

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He was a baby when he joined. Like 18 or so.

Pogue Mahone said:

Here’s a thing.

Anthony Martial only turned 25 three months ago.

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Yeah - that too.

But even more to the point - Rashford is only 23.

Before he got clobbered by Moreno back in 2015 he was playing lights out as well. He was on fire back then as he is now.

Pogue Mahone said:

I’d say that all of that is part of the reason why footballers tend to hit their peak in their late 20s. It’s not just physical development. It’s also about becoming more mature, mentally. Having that focus, drive and professionalism is difficult when you’re only just out of your teens. We’re all basically self-absorbed idiots at that age.

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Professionalism is important. Staying up to 4am playing Call of Duty tends to dampen your real world performance.

Pinning Shaw's performances on Jose is purely ridiculous.
And to be honest I am not a fan of "He has arrived" talk for someone who has been underwhelming for several years. We need to see how his game goes in next season. But at least he has decent substitute in Telles.

If we sign a couple of young classy attackers like Sancho, Buendia, St-maximin we can continue in the same young vein.

We really have the chance to build a strong team that'll compete for the next 5 years or so. The summer window will be crucial. Unfortunately whoever scouted Van De Beek got it badly wrong.

Average age in terms of starting XIs could be misleading - but we're certainly younger in that regard than all of City, Liverpool, Leicester and Spurs.

Possibly also Chelsea - haven't looked closely at the numbers there.

Solius said:

Yep, nobody has the patience any more.

Growing up watching football it was almost always said and agreed that:

- Players peaked around 25-28.
- Goalkeepers peaked a bit later on and played until they were 36-37.
- Younger players will be inconsistent.
- Players coming from another country need a year at least, to settle.

Now it's all reactionary bollocks. A player has even one bad game and they're called shit and abused. Micro moments in games are analysed to death and everyone is under the brightest possible spotlight.

It took Didier Drogba til he was 26 to start playing at the top level. It's all relative. Unfortunately I can't see it ever going back to the way it was with social media the way it is.

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This, but everybody now works in extremes. We want to the next big thing and they do usually burst through at a young age. R9 was unstoppable at 18, Messi and CR7 were both well on the way at the end of their teens, as are Mbappe and Haaland now. Even slightly lesser players like Rooney came through at a young age.

Shaw is not going to turn into Roberto Carlos but he can be a very good player. We should be happy with that.

Shaw seemed a lot more physically developed for his age than your average player. Rooney-esque physique from a young age (120kg bench press with ease and without any real weight training) and has been built that way for a long time. I think his development in the last few years has been mainly mental, not physical. He's playing with a maturity and confidence now which is combined with more belief in himself physically; a trait he hasn't had since the leg break. He's an absolute tank and he's playing like he knows it now.

He also seems to respond much better to positive man-management with a coach who puts their faith in him. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that his best form came at Southampton under Poch and then here under Ole - two very affable and sanguine managers. A direct contrast to the defensive megalomaniacs that preceded Solsjkaer who used criticism to try and derive good performances.

The idea of growing pains affecting a player's season is most relevant to Greenwood I think. He's clearly a bit bigger and a lot more muscular than he was at the start of last season. A pretty dramatic change in physique over a short period of time can completely feck up your muscle memory and the learned mechanics involved in a high-level physical activity. Fully expect him to bounce back next season as he acclimatises to it all.

While improvement is definitely not linear, most people would have to admit that the penny drops for most players in that 24-26 age range.

By that, I mean its a culmination of all the hard work you've put in, a bit of maturity, and that experience on how to actually influence games on a consistent basis.

Players tend to try a bit too much when they're younger, it's finding that balance of knowing your team and who you are as a player, and what you do best. Salah is one of the best examples, we saw the potential that was there at Chelsea, versus the simplicity and consistency in his game for Liverpool.