What’s the dilemma with Donny’s playing time & Ole?

I think he's been massively average for us, hasn't shown much at all in the majority of his chances here, but still feel he deserves better than the role he seemingly has under Ole. It's just a waste, and we'll never see the best of him being used as he is.

Quite simply let the lad go if he's not going to be used regularly.

It's been a bizarre signing from day one, and that's continuing.

A really strange situation that leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Play him or sell him, but don't destroy his career by chaining him to the bench.

I have no idea why this situation is ‘a complete mystery’ to some fans.

He’s been bang average in starts and is not better defensively than Matic.

Wolves have created more chances going forward than any team in the league so far, with an injury to Scott why would Ole play a player who is worse defensively than Matic?

The only time he’s getting minutes is to rotate with Bruno, who here wants to see DVB start ahead of Bruno? Nobody? I’m sure Ole feels the same. Simple really.

It's not weird, this is Manchester United, there are players ahead of him.

Fred was a bit part player when he first came, I'm sure this season we will see a lot of Donny if he really acclimatized to the premier league.

I want Donny to play because he is the only player I think can connect with Sancho's one twos.

After the midfield performance on the weekend I really cannot see what he has to lose by starting Donny on the weekend.
He said it was so close between him or Matic starting against Southampton then he must have impressed him at some stage so if he has a bad first half he can hook him but if he is an improvement on Fred then it is a bonus for Ole.....seems quite logical to me.

I'm generally not a fan of keeping players who wants to leave, but the fact is:

1. If Donny leaves, then we only have 4 CMs left. One of them is a slow 33 year old and one of them is so attacking by nature that he's a better winger than CM. Had we been able to sign a proper CM/DM this summer, then things would have been different.

2. Donny has only been at the club for a year. I can understand that the club don't want to write him off completely just yet. Fred's first year in United was even worse than Donny's and he turned out to be a pretty decent option.

luke511 said:

His best performance for us, and one of utd's best performances of the season, was when he played alongside Fred in the double pivot with Bruno in front vs Basaksehir at home. That was the only time it's been used, I've no idea why it wasn't given another go soon after given how good the performance was. Another similar mystery is Amad only getting 10 minutes of playing time in the space of 2 months after scoring vs AC Milan. It's a complete guess but I wonder if it has anything to do with them not being his personal choices, and more the heads of recruitment, who knows.

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He had some decent games, all of them were when he played midfield. Which is funny because that's where we struggle now. I have no doubts, if he makes it here it will be in deeper position rather than AM.

kps88 said:

He'll get his chance once the midweek games start up. Will probably start in the league cup and against Young Boys. Up to him to make the most of it.

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We keep saying this and Ole keeps playing Pogba out of position, Fred in poor form, and Matic (almost as third CB).

Champ said:

Agree with this.

Not sure why there is the obsession with VDBs playing time on here really.
He isn't a defensive minded midfielder, so won't get in ahead of Matic, Fred or McT. He isn't better than Bruno so won't get in ahead of him, and he hasn't shown he can play off the left or right side.

So currently for me until Bruno is unfit or needs a rest badly I won't think we'll be seeing him, which suits me fine.

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From my perspective, we don't have any functional midfield setup apart from McFred. With McTominay injured, we can just try random setups (won't be worse than Fred-Pogba).
My problem with Ole is he's trying the same things which aren't working. But it certainly looks like we will continue playing non-functional 2 man midfield because we have 8 players for 4 positions up front. Can van de Beek be useful in midfield? I don't know. I'd like to find out, but I doubt I will considering how stubborn Ole is not to play him.

I agree with the consensus that he's been average whenever he's played. But it still should be enough to get some more gametime, considering the alternatives in CM right now are Matic who can barely move, and Fred who is continually awful. When VDB is on the pitch, he doesn't really do a whole lot wrong, and he's not going to get any better by not playing. His value will also continue to drop if he's not on show.

Unless he really is stinking up the place in training, but if that was the case, he'd have been pushed out the door this summer.

Have Donny and McTominay played in a 2 together yet? Might be worth a try...

In a way, Van De Beek is suffering from Bruno's success. I think Ole viewed it as a rotation between Donny, Bruno and Pogba for the two attacking midfield slots but Bruno's productivity means he ended up being the first name on the team sheet every time.

I just want to see him get a run of 4 or 5 games, see how he does. I dont think anyone would have a real problem with the way he's been used so far if he had top players in front of him doing the business, but he doesnt.
So give him a chance.

I assume he was bought with two purposes. Back up if something happened with Bruno and to cover Pogba if Pogba was to leave. I suspect they expected Pogba to be going before Covid really hit. Meaning that Donny would just take his position in the squad.

I think it’s two things:

1. He’s just that far down in the pecking order. Hasn’t played well given the chances and probably hasn’t carried out the Manager’s instructions and hasn’t trained well enough to earn a string of performances to convince them otherwise.

2. We are short of midfielders. He might be down the order but the chances are that we will need him at some point and Ole isn’t going to sell a midfielder until he’s signed one.

Red_Aaron said:

What do you suggest?
How many games should he get to play regardless of his performances? And if our results are terrible in those games do we just ignore them because Donny is more important than our results?

I really don't see how anyone justifies playing this guy 'just because' It's not how team sports work, meritocracy is fundamental. He'll get chances in lesser games, should he perform well it'll improve his chances of playing in the bigger games, it's not a difficult concept

Having forced his way into the team he'll be a better player for it btw

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Our result was good vs Wolves, do you think we should stick to Fred-Pogba midfield?
I think you're missing the point of building a team. It's not like we have some very good midfield options and Donny can't get ahead of them. Not going into details, but we could really use somebody who can offer support from central areas. The problem is, you NEED to give some regular chances to get him going and see what he really is. Do you seriously think he got any serious time to prove himself? I think the treatment he's getting is abysmal.

I could probably name 2-3 games where he played devent to good. I don't think he was rewarded with more game time afterwards.

Counterfactual said:

Pogba's replacement, but Pogba hasn't gone or committed to staying, so Donny's in limbo.

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That's what I think as well.

Is he named in the Holland squad for this international break?

Borys said:

We keep saying this and Ole keeps playing Pogba out of position, Fred in poor form, and Matic (almost as third CB).

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Yeah in league games. Because, like it or not, they've done more to earn his trust. I think Matic is finished but he actually had a better preseason than Donny. He will play cup and CL games soon enough and then it's up to him to earn some of that trust.

Borys said:

He had some decent games, all of them were when he played midfield. Which is funny because that's where we struggle now. I have no doubts, if he makes it here it will be in deeper position rather than AM.


We keep saying this and Ole keeps playing Pogba out of position, Fred in poor form, and Matic (almost as third CB).


From my perspective, we don't have any functional midfield setup apart from McFred. With McTominay injured, we can just try random setups (won't be worse than Fred-Pogba).
My problem with Ole is he's trying the same things which aren't working. But it certainly looks like we will continue playing non-functional 2 man midfield because we have 8 players for 4 positions up front. Can van de Beek be useful in midfield? I don't know. I'd like to find out, but I doubt I will considering how stubborn Ole is not to play him.

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I think the main issue is that the pressure is on Ole to win something this year more than ever, especially with the signings we have made. That means that playing around with players he doesn't trust so much (VDB) in unfamiliar positions may not be something he is comfortable with.

Obviously I am only guessing this to be the case, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is too far from the truth given his trust of Fred and McT, which as you say is fuctional but unspectacular.

SATA said:

Is he named in the Holland squad for this international break?

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No, I don't think so.

There's only one holding midfielder in this team, Matic, and he isn't good enough. McTominay, Fred, Pogba, none of them have the discipline to cover the defence. But Fred gets a lot of unfair criticism IMO. McFred works somewhat because the two of them at least share the workload of running around and closing down.

Against Wolves, Fred was chasing players all by himself across the width of the pitch. So of course he's going to get knackered and make mistakes. Chasing players like a rabid dog is what he does, and he does it well. But he can't do it alone with no one covering the spaces he leaves behind, and then get blamed for the midfield being open.

Skills said:

Wasn't having a long term visionary like Solksjaer meant to avoid this kind of situation?

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As someone who thinks Donny will eventually get enough playingtime: When in gods name have all transfers worked out for every club? We're still memeing about fecking Bebe here.

The whole situation is fecking bizarre! I also see a lot of people also saying he wasn’t Ole’s signing but if that’s the case then why did he phone him up personally to convince him to join?

I will say the whole Donny thing is a conundrum, it is a genuinely confusing sequence of events. Everything from the style of the player to his limited appearances to his transfer fee does not make much sense so in a way the speculation is understandable.

However, the way some people go on about it as if Donny absolutely deserves a chance, or that he's some poor prisoner at Manchester United is total nonsense. Is it really plausible that he's looking a good player worthy of game time and Ole is somehow blind to his abilities? That makes no sense, it's Ole and his transfer department who are on the hook for the signing. The only thing that makes sense is that he is not performing within a meritocracy, and given he's not been good when picked I am not fascinated by the idea of seeing him.

As for letting him go, maybe we should, maybe he's here for an unlikely eventuality where we have many injuries. The point is, we bought the player, we have a contract, he's not a prisoner, he's a well paid footballer and he still has the option to say to the manager that he deserves to be picked by working all hours in conjunction with what the coaches are saying - thankfully he appeared to do that over the summer. It's not the ideal situation for a player, but he's spoken about as if he's a uncared for stray rather than a footballer that has to earn a spot.

There isnt a spot for Donny.

What I don't get is why not just sell or loan him and then buy or loan a DM that we are more likely to use?

Strange one.

Syphon Wallet said:

VDB just isn't good enough, he doesn't have enough about him, other than neat and tidy player.
Didn't think he was that good for Ajax either when we signed him.
He would probably work better alongside a proper CDM.
He will never be good enough in the CAM position for Manchester United.

He would have been sold if we got a CDM in, seems obvious when you read the agents quotes.
We have kept him selfishly for cover, he won't get much playing time if everyone stays fit.

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I never thought he was that good either but I knew there would be interest in Donny so we would have recouped money and signed a DMC but I keep telling people it is a decision to not sign one because maybe the guys we wanted at DMC are not available at a good price in this moment.

Josep Dowling said:

That’s why I always thought the transfer was odd. He’s a CAM. Why sign him when you had Bruno and Pogba? The assumption is Pogba was going to be sold last season is my guess. Yet again a case of buying a player and then trying to force him into a different position. We do this all the time. It’s not exactly difficult to buy players for positions we need.

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Thats my guess too. Madrid sniffed around him and we were forced to act on our Pogba replacement before Pogba was confirmed out. But now that Pogba is still here, he's caught in limbo as he's simply not as good as Pogba.

If Pogba renews his contract then DvB will be sold. It's unfortunate for DvB as he's wasting his career here, in an ideal world he probably should have been loaned last year but who's going to loan out a new 50m euro signing?

I have to say it is looking like a strange signing, especially when you consider the £35m could have been used on a DM or pure 6. The only explanation can be he was picked up due to the uncertainty around Pogba and the fear we might go into the season short. Obviously Pogba stayed, and is still here, so he's not seeing minutes and when he has its not been in his natural position.

It's a shame as I do think there's a good player in there and I do think he has something to give the team. Just a case of a square peg in a round hole but questions surely have to be asked about our planning.

I've followed Ole's coaching career since Molde.

He's a weird fella. It's strange how poorly understood he is (though of course with time that changes) in England.

Let's just say he's very far from being "a saint", this good guy who always does the right thing. He's a wolf in sheep's clothing. And he holds a grudge. He boycotts norwegian media for years simply for referencing legitimate questions about the many dodgy things he's been involved with. The media that actually reports on it stands no chance ever of getting anything from him.

So back to the Donny situation. Ole is stubborn and not very flexible and in some cases not very reasonable (see f.ex. the Sarr situation).

He clearly doesn't rate Donny. The reasonable thing would be to let him go and recoup the losses. However that means losing an option in midfield. Rest assured that Ole doesn't want to lose options unless he absolutely needs to. Hence Donny stays. And this is not so strange.

The next reasonable event in this sequence would be that Donny gets to play more, at least in low risk situations. Yet, that doesn't happen either, because again Ole is not very flexible.

If Donny was a scout signing, it could factor in the way he's being treated. It's a bit speculative yes, but Ole holds a grudge. If he's had disagreements with the scouts, which is not far fetched to assume, or is still bitter over his Haaland recommendation that wasn't picked up, then that could factor in. Is he that much of an asshole? I don't know, but it's hard to find explanations for why such an expensive signing has been given so little time. Usually it's not even a question about it, even if the player is truly shitty, he's given time to prove himself when he costs 40 million.

Even if that is the case, it's not that Ole won't use him ever out of principle, but he won't get anything for free either. And I don't think it's personal - I'm sure he's trying to build up Donny on the training ground, he's just used as a pawn, to hammer in the message that Ole knows best. Donny will be used when he's truly needed and that's it.

Anyway, speculation and all, but this is my best guess of the situation.

We probably still expect for Pogba to go in January or next summer and then DvB will get more game time.

I'd rather we sold him though if we're not going to increase his game time. The spot of infrequent games is only really suitable for youth or someone like Matic at the end of his career. No player with any drive or self respect is going to happily go along with his role.

He’s an interesting player, but as I’m being told on here everyday that Ole doesn’t like passing the ball in midfield, you have to wonder if his qualities match with our vision.

Personally, I think his profile is what I would like to see in the midfield, and I think it will make us a better team, enable us to build play, pass through a press and progress the ball from area to area.

11101 said:

He must not be training well, and he has hardly done much to change perceptions in the games he has played. However, I've never seen him anywhere near as bad as Matic vs Southampton and that was hardly a one off. DVB has to be ahead of him in the pecking order now. If not then you've really got to question what Ole is seeing out on the pitch.

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This is the part that I find Itf hard to justify. Yes he might be low in the pecking order, but he has specific qualities that are valuable in certain circumstances. When Matic was poor for an hour against Southampton, we were crying out for someone who could pass through the press, and yet DVB remained unused while a half-fit McTominay was brought on and aggravated his injury.

The same again against Wolves. We were rocking, being pressed relentlessly, and being outnumbered in midfield because Fred didn't know where to be, Bruno was virtually playing as a striker, and Pogba had to do it all on his own. We were desperate for a player to play short, simple passes and regain control of the game. DVB has been criticised (rightly) in the past for being too risk-averse, but there are times when that's exactly what you need, and our past two games were prime examples.

I don't think DVB should be a starter by any means. But not using him when he can be a solution to problems in-game makes you seriously question Ole's decision-making.

kps88 said:

Yeah in league games. Because, like it or not, they've done more to earn his trust. I think Matic is finished but he actually had a better preseason than Donny. He will play cup and CL games soon enough and then it's up to him to earn some of that trust.

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I don't think so, I think Donny was not a direct competition for midfielders. He was supposed to be the Bruno understudy, with Pogba playing deeper. Which is bizarre when you watch them play as they should be swapped. I though Ole saw that in late stage of previous season. Maybe he did, I guess Pogba entered this season in good form so I can understand why he trusted him more than Donny.

Champ said:

I think the main issue is that the pressure is on Ole to win something this year more than ever, especially with the signings we have made. That means that playing around with players he doesn't trust so much (VDB) in unfamiliar positions may not be something he is comfortable with.

Obviously I am only guessing this to be the case, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is too far from the truth given his trust of Fred and McT, which as you say is fuctional but unspectacular.

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I agree and I can understand that approach, however the point is we're using solutions which we know aren't working. Therefore I advocate trying something new, especially with McTominay being injured and Fred being in poor form.

Borys said:

I don't think so, I think Donny was not a direct competition for midfielders. He was supposed to be the Bruno understudy, with Pogba playing deeper. Which is bizarre when you watch them play as they should be swapped. I though Ole saw that in late stage of previous season. Maybe he did, I guess Pogba entered this season in good form so I can understand why he trusted him more than Donny.


I agree and I can understand that approach, however the point is we're using solutions which we know aren't working. Therefore I advocate trying something new, especially with McTominay being injured and Fred being in poor form.

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I can get behind that for sure.

As you say, sometimes new ideas and a gamble is needed in order to find solutions.

An interesting and talented player who we bought with no real plan on how to use him, and upon buying him have realised there is no real requirement for him - at least that's how it appears Ole's thinking is. The puzzling thing is why he is still here, given he would have been easy to shift in the transfer window, even it was just on loan. All I can think of is that Ole is not ready to cut his losses/admit his mistake yet. I don't see him getting much playing time other than what people have already said - cup games, some CL - and the feeling now is even if he played well in those, assisted, scored etc, he still wouldn't be starting the next PL game.

I find the whole thing around him bizarre to be honest.

I think he slept with Moyes daughter.

SirMattlives said:

I have to believe there is a plan, that maybe Donny is just not showing enough in training yet for how Ole wants to use him but will be phased in over this season. It must be annoying for Ole to have to explain every single decision and I trust he and the staff have determined the player as sufficient potential that they want to keep him for a bit longer. Much talk about how he came back this season in strong shape and ready to push on, so let's see.

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I feel like Ole can clearly see he’s a good player but hasn’t got a clue how he fits into our tactics. This would normally means he’d just be sold but I also feel Ole is under pressure for the first time to be more adventurous and adapt his gameplan (hence the 433 rumours) and so I think it’s like a chicken and egg scenario of him knowing VdB could be useful but also being scared to change a setup that usually delivers, despite how ugly the football can be.

I think the answer is pretty simple, every time he played he was bang average.
He needs a string of 5-10 games, but he will never get that while we're trying to build a team to challenge City and Chelsea.

There are a few things he could do though:
- ask his agent to shut the feck up
- grab his next chance with 8 hands
- stop being a fecking pussy when he gets his next chance ; in all games he played now he looked scared and soft like a dick waiting for an injection

Lynty said:

I think he slept with Moyes daughter.

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Dennis Bergkamp will not be happy about that

A weird situation all round. He’s been non-existent in most of the games he’s played but then he’s never really had an opportunity to get into any sort of rhythm. It’s something of a vicious circle, really.

I’d like to see him play some games in midfield alongside Fred or McTominay. Pogba is better further upfield and Matic should be nowhere near the first team.

Lynty said:

I think he slept with Moyes daughter.

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I heard a rumour after scoring against Palace he said "heh, i'm the new baby faced assassin" and Ole didn't take it lightly.

youmeletsfly said:

I think the answer is pretty simple, every time he played he was bang average.
He needs a string of 5-10 games, but he will never get that while we're trying to build a team to challenge City and Chelsea.

There are a few things he could do though:
- ask his agent to shut the feck up
- grab his next chance with 8 hands
- stop being a fecking pussy when he gets his next chance ; in all games he played now he looked scared and soft like a dick waiting for an injection

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I would like to see a player grab a chance with 8 hands once every 6 months of playing. He gets 45 mins max in a game, what do you expect him to do from CM? Score a Hat trick and get hat trick of assists whilst having 100% interceptions and tackle rate?

His agent has said nothing that isn't true, he has been patient for a year, he has been promised game time and in 3 games after having a decent pre season has 0 minutes in the league.

The reason people are calling for him to start is because Fred, Matic, Pogba have been putting up stinkers in the middle of the park. Pogba on the weekend had a poor game as CM.

He can't get the chance over Fred who is allowed to make 10 mistakes a game yet keeps getting the managers vote of confidence?