g = window.googletag || {}; googletag.cmd = googletag.cmd || []; window.googletag = googletag; googletag.cmd.push(function() { var interstitialSlot = googletag.defineOutOfPageSlot('/17085479/redcafe_gam_interstitial', googletag.enums.OutOfPageFormat.INTERSTITIAL); if (interstitialSlot) { interstitialSlot.addService(googletag.pubads()); } });

Today analyzing : The main reasons and factors that lead to Tuchel sacking and main reasons behind Alonso success with Leverkusen

LuckyScout78

Full Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2018
Messages
999
First I want to mention that I will only try to just focus on the managers, owner expectations and the qualities of the players. So it will not too become much to write about. Only main reasons behind big and small clubs sacking managers.


I will start the analysis of big clubs first. And starting with example of hiring managers that has lead to success.

And with a manager that has lead to both really successful manager’s career and many times got sacking. I am hoping it is ok I use the “special one” as an example.


As we all know. Before Mourinho came to Chelsea. He won champion league with Porto. With a really strong and good Porto side. With many really good and top class players.

And it here is the “first main reason “ I will mention is. When a big club first hire and appoint a manager. They shall NOT only hire the manager and his coaching staff. BUT they have to buy the top players/the top soldiers of that Porto/winning/champion team too. And Chelsea did it right. After Mourinho’s transfer wishes and plan of course.

A top class player Chelsea and Mourinho bought from Porto :

+ Top class CB = Ricardo Carvalho. 26 of age in 2004.

A Portuguese top class CB joining and partnered with another top class CB in John Terry. And having a top class attack destroyer and DM in Claude Makelele from France.

A top class central line/spine like this :

GK: Cech + CBs: Terry and Carvalho + DM/CM Makele + AMC Lampard + CF Drogba. And adding with the flair, pace and skills of Robben, Duff and Cole.

This team were meant to be champion and premier league winning team. Full of world class players.

In other words a premier league champion team require and demand top and world class players and managers, at theirs peak of theirs career.

Not only did Mourinho and Chelsea bought top players from his previous club Porto, Drogba to join a really good Chelsea team with many top players already. A recipe to success. He and Chelsea got all the ingredients that lead to success and premier league title.

A complete team with really really few weakness. From GK to CF.



Now. We will analyze why big clubs sacking managers. Like above. I will still use Mourinho as example. Who has faced both side of the football and managers career/game.

And the example is when Mourinho joined United. There were a lot of difference here. Compare to the first time he joined Chelsea.

Manchester United was at the time Mourinho joined them. Didn’t had one or many top and world class players in the squad and if I don’t remember wrong. I don’t think Mourinho bought many top world class players from Chelsea. Not from the first time squad, but with his second spell at Chelsea. Players like Hazard, Costa.

Matic was the only player that joined him I remember. And that time I rate and think Matic wasn’t at his top level and peak. And joining a Manchester United, a team still with so many weakness and area to strength. It wasn’t meant and has ingredients, reasons and factors that lead to a premier league champion team. Compare United to Mourinho’s first and second spell Chelsea. Not a chance that will happen. That United will win premier league under Mourinho.

In other words Manchester United didn’t do like Chelsea did at first time. Not only hire and appoint the manager. But United shall try to buy and appoint some of the top class players from Chelsea too. Main reasons that will lead to success. Or at least buy top class players that a premier league winning team demand. Buy Drogba, Fabregas or Kante from Leicester. If you can’t top players from the managers previous team, then top players from others clubs.



Others examples were Louis Van Gaal and David Moyes.



First with David Moyes. From Everton. With no top players to buy from Everton at that time. Only Fellaini + joining a Manchester United team with many players that were on theirs downfall of theirs career. In other words not a top team.

Sum of those ingredients and reasons/factors. Moyes is just a human, not a super man. It will just lead to all the second rate ingredients and factors will lead = middle table team.


Louis Van Gaal. A big name manager. But did he and United bought really top and world class players? He bought a sharp CF at that time in Falcao and Di Maria in midfield/winger. Joining a unsteady and not top and ideal function team. And with LVG and those really good players. If was not enough to lead United ship steady on right direction.



And to today Manchester United manager. Erik Ten Hag. Did Ten Hag and United bought any top or world class player from Ajax or top players from others clubs? Martinez, Casemiro Antony.

How did we rate Martinez to Ricardco Carvalho. Casemiro to Makelele level. Antony to Robben or Hazard level. Then we will might figure out why United are still not a top team yet.

The level that matches Chelsea, United’s 90 and Arsenal invisible is today Manchester City central spine. Like this:

CB : Dias + CDM Rodri, RCM/LCM Bruyne/Foden + CF Haaland. Adding with flair and skills in Bernardo Silva. So that are the main reasons and factors behind a successful and dominating team.



So to sum up. Hiring manager is like buying a top class car. Every units of the car get to be top class too.

Top engine + Top wheels + Others important units = top car

A top team = Top defend + top midfield + top attack + a top manager


In other words if you have what it require to become a top team. Your team will become top 4 or top 8. After the weapons and quality of the units your team is having.


And we all know. Manager for a top team. The owner demand top 4 or playing consistent good football. If not you get sack. Like LVG, Mourinho.



+ And now bottom team sacking managers.


Example are. Instead of getting top players to join them. Those small teams are doing the opposite of the top teams. They are selling theirs best players to the top teams.


+ Leicester sold Mahrez, Kante, Maguire and others key players. They slowly and slowly fall down to the bottom and got relegated. Sacked Ranieri.


+ And others bottom team keep selling theirs best players and most important players. Like Brennan Johnson from Notthingham to Spurs. Nottingham might survive this season, but maybe next year or year after. The become lower and might get relegate.


So for me. It is really hard to survive the premier league, when you still selling your best, key and important players. It will soon or later you will sack your managers, because of relegation danger or got relegate.

Selling your best players and still keep your manager. Those things are just not in common.

Just look at Chelsea with Tuchel. From champion league winning team. Rudiger decided to join Real Madrid on free transfer and Kante got injury from the start to end season. Without those 2 players. Chelsea became a middle table team and Tuchel got sacked.

The owner of those bottom teams had to take the blame too. You can’t got both = still selling most important players + still survive or keep the same good result before those important players left. It is just impossible. Then you have to lower your expectations. If not you will keep sacking managers.



So the key move and decisions would be. For top clubs. If another top club is hiring Pep from City. It will might look expensive. But over time will benefit your team and club more.

Like not only hiring Pep. You have to buy Rodri for 100 mill £ + Haaland for 150 mill £ + Diaz for 80 £. The price tag are just example. Could me more or less.

The point is you are willing to spend money/spend big for top and world class players.

Instead of buying second best and rate players. Players at 50 – 80 mill £ price tag. Second rate quality that not full guarantee you for success, premier league title or at least top 4.

So instead of buying 4,5,6 second rate quality players. You end at 5 + 70 = around 350 mill £. So you might end up spending more than buying fewer, but more and top and higher level player.



In the end. There are others reasons behind a manager got sacked. But I will not focus really much on those factors. Like a manager ran out of luck or problems with the players.

Luck is a key ingredients and factors. Like playing poker. For those who know the game. When you are in the run of back luck. You will only get bad cards. And bad cards will make it difficult to winning hands. Compare opposite good luck.



But it all come down to a conclusion. Peoples are saying :

If your team have the best weapons and know how to use those weapons. Both attack and defend weapon. You will rise the chance a lot to win the battle and premier league/champion league.
And to have the best weapons = you get to have a lot of money.
And to have get a lot of money? Where does it come from? Luck or good karma?



Keeping and sacking managers does has theirs reasons. And hopefully I haven’t forgot the most and main reasons behind it.

Hope you have enjoy mine analysis and writing
 

Solius

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Staff
Joined
Dec 31, 2007
Messages
87,068
I'm genuinely going to go make a tea and get a snack before I dive into this. Get in.
 

Big Ben Foster

Correctly predicted Portugal to win Euro 2016
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
13,150
Location
BR -> MI -> TX
Supports
Also support Vasco da Gama
Thanks. Definitely something worth pondering and discussing.
 
Joined
Jul 13, 2002
Messages
52,809
Location
Founder of IhateMakeleles.org and Gourcufffanboysa
First I want to mention that I will only try to just focus on the managers, owner expectations and the qualities of the players. So it will not too become much to write about. Only main reasons behind big and small clubs sacking managers.


I will start the analysis of big clubs first. And starting with example of hiring managers that has lead to success.

And with a manager that has lead to both really successful manager’s career and many times got sacking. I am hoping it is ok I use the “special one” as an example.


As we all know. Before Mourinho came to Chelsea. He won champion league with Porto. With a really strong and good Porto side. With many really good and top class players.

And it here is the “first main reason “ I will mention is. When a big club first hire and appoint a manager. They shall NOT only hire the manager and his coaching staff. BUT they have to buy the top players/the top soldiers of that Porto/winning/champion team too. And Chelsea did it right. After Mourinho’s transfer wishes and plan of course.

A top class player Chelsea and Mourinho bought from Porto :

+ Top class CB = Ricardo Carvalho. 26 of age in 2004.

A Portuguese top class CB joining and partnered with another top class CB in John Terry. And having a top class attack destroyer and DM in Claude Makelele from France.

A top class central line/spine like this :

GK: Cech + CBs: Terry and Carvalho + DM/CM Makele + AMC Lampard + CF Drogba. And adding with the flair, pace and skills of Robben, Duff and Cole.

This team were meant to be champion and premier league winning team. Full of world class players.

In other words a premier league champion team require and demand top and world class players and managers, at theirs peak of theirs career.

Not only did Mourinho and Chelsea bought top players from his previous club Porto, Drogba to join a really good Chelsea team with many top players already. A recipe to success. He and Chelsea got all the ingredients that lead to success and premier league title.

A complete team with really really few weakness. From GK to CF.



Now. We will analyze why big clubs sacking managers. Like above. I will still use Mourinho as example. Who has faced both side of the football and managers career/game.

And the example is when Mourinho joined United. There were a lot of difference here. Compare to the first time he joined Chelsea.

Manchester United was at the time Mourinho joined them. Didn’t had one or many top and world class players in the squad and if I don’t remember wrong. I don’t think Mourinho bought many top world class players from Chelsea. Not from the first time squad, but with his second spell at Chelsea. Players like Hazard, Costa.

Matic was the only player that joined him I remember. And that time I rate and think Matic wasn’t at his top level and peak. And joining a Manchester United, a team still with so many weakness and area to strength. It wasn’t meant and has ingredients, reasons and factors that lead to a premier league champion team. Compare United to Mourinho’s first and second spell Chelsea. Not a chance that will happen. That United will win premier league under Mourinho.

In other words Manchester United didn’t do like Chelsea did at first time. Not only hire and appoint the manager. But United shall try to buy and appoint some of the top class players from Chelsea too. Main reasons that will lead to success. Or at least buy top class players that a premier league winning team demand. Buy Drogba, Fabregas or Kante from Leicester. If you can’t top players from the managers previous team, then top players from others clubs.



Others examples were Louis Van Gaal and David Moyes.



First with David Moyes. From Everton. With no top players to buy from Everton at that time. Only Fellaini + joining a Manchester United team with many players that were on theirs downfall of theirs career. In other words not a top team.

Sum of those ingredients and reasons/factors. Moyes is just a human, not a super man. It will just lead to all the second rate ingredients and factors will lead = middle table team.


Louis Van Gaal. A big name manager. But did he and United bought really top and world class players? He bought a sharp CF at that time in Falcao and Di Maria in midfield/winger. Joining a unsteady and not top and ideal function team. And with LVG and those really good players. If was not enough to lead United ship steady on right direction.



And to today Manchester United manager. Erik Ten Hag. Did Ten Hag and United bought any top or world class player from Ajax or top players from others clubs? Martinez, Casemiro Antony.

How did we rate Martinez to Ricardco Carvalho. Casemiro to Makelele level. Antony to Robben or Hazard level. Then we will might figure out why United are still not a top team yet.

The level that matches Chelsea, United’s 90 and Arsenal invisible is today Manchester City central spine. Like this:

CB : Dias + CDM Rodri, RCM/LCM Bruyne/Foden + CF Haaland. Adding with flair and skills in Bernardo Silva. So that are the main reasons and factors behind a successful and dominating team.



So to sum up. Hiring manager is like buying a top class car. Every units of the car get to be top class too.

Top engine + Top wheels + Others important units = top car

A top team = Top defend + top midfield + top attack + a top manager


In other words if you have what it require to become a top team. Your team will become top 4 or top 8. After the weapons and quality of the units your team is having.


And we all know. Manager for a top team. The owner demand top 4 or playing consistent good football. If not you get sack. Like LVG, Mourinho.



+ And now bottom team sacking managers.


Example are. Instead of getting top players to join them. Those small teams are doing the opposite of the top teams. They are selling theirs best players to the top teams.


+ Leicester sold Mahrez, Kante, Maguire and others key players. They slowly and slowly fall down to the bottom and got relegated. Sacked Ranieri.


+ And others bottom team keep selling theirs best players and most important players. Like Brennan Johnson from Notthingham to Spurs. Nottingham might survive this season, but maybe next year or year after. The become lower and might get relegate.


So for me. It is really hard to survive the premier league, when you still selling your best, key and important players. It will soon or later you will sack your managers, because of relegation danger or got relegate.

Selling your best players and still keep your manager. Those things are just not in common.

Just look at Chelsea with Tuchel. From champion league winning team. Rudiger decided to join Real Madrid on free transfer and Kante got injury from the start to end season. Without those 2 players. Chelsea became a middle table team and Tuchel got sacked.

The owner of those bottom teams had to take the blame too. You can’t got both = still selling most important players + still survive or keep the same good result before those important players left. It is just impossible. Then you have to lower your expectations. If not you will keep sacking managers.



So the key move and decisions would be. For top clubs. If another top club is hiring Pep from City. It will might look expensive. But over time will benefit your team and club more.

Like not only hiring Pep. You have to buy Rodri for 100 mill £ + Haaland for 150 mill £ + Diaz for 80 £. The price tag are just example. Could me more or less.

The point is you are willing to spend money/spend big for top and world class players.

Instead of buying second best and rate players. Players at 50 – 80 mill £ price tag. Second rate quality that not full guarantee you for success, premier league title or at least top 4.

So instead of buying 4,5,6 second rate quality players. You end at 5 + 70 = around 350 mill £. So you might end up spending more than buying fewer, but more and top and higher level player.



In the end. There are others reasons behind a manager got sacked. But I will not focus really much on those factors. Like a manager ran out of luck or problems with the players.

Luck is a key ingredients and factors. Like playing poker. For those who know the game. When you are in the run of back luck. You will only get bad cards. And bad cards will make it difficult to winning hands. Compare opposite good luck.



But it all come down to a conclusion. Peoples are saying :

If your team have the best weapons and know how to use those weapons. Both attack and defend weapon. You will rise the chance a lot to win the battle and premier league/champion league.
And to have the best weapons = you get to have a lot of money.
And to have get a lot of money? Where does it come from? Luck or good karma?



Keeping and sacking managers does has theirs reasons. And hopefully I haven’t forgot the most and main reasons behind it.

Hope you have enjoy mine analysis and writing
We done.


Personally I feel nothing beats excellent planning and having the grit to stick to an excellent 3-5 year plan inspite of outside noise. Especially from fans and the media.
 

LuckyScout78

Full Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2018
Messages
999
Warning warning. It gonna to become a really really long post. Read by your own responsibility.


First I will start of analyze Chelsea and Bayern Munich sacking of Tuchel

Like I have analyzed in the first post. We have to find the reasons and ingredients behind the Tuchel edition “Champion league champion with Chelsea”. Leading him got named as The Best FIFA football coach.

Now. Let us take a look of the Chelsea final line up against City. Chelsea were really tight and aggressive. Set up to counterattack.

Line up: Mendy + Azplicueta – Silva – Rudiger – James + Kante – Jorginho – Chilwell – Havertz – Mount + Werner

In this line up. I observed, believe and rate that Rudiger and Kante were the two most aggressive, best ball winner, hardest to pass. And 2 of the most key and important players in that line up against City.

Season after 22/23.

  • Rudiger joined Real Madrid June 2022. And now Rudiger is helping RM to lead la liga and top of the table.
About Kante info season 22/23:

  • Kante only played 7 matches = 517 minutes. He was nearly injury whole season for Chelsea.
Without those 2 monster of a players. Tuchel and Chelsea totally collapsed. Mendy, Azza, Thiago Silva, James, Jorginho, Chilwell, Havertz, Mount and Werner were still there with Tuchel.

But they were lacking a top badass of a player. Top beast that will stop City and other teams attackings.

In other words master chef Tuchel were lacking top quality ingredients to create a best meal and top performance. Then result of it. Chelsea performance slowly and slowly get worse and worse. Leading to Chelsea sacking.

Now, to Bayern Munich sacking :

First Bayern bosses thought Tuchel was still a top coach and right man for them. But they might forgot behind Tuchel success as managers. Special with Chelsea or Dortmund. That his success were relied on top quality players like Rudiger and Kante.

So Bayern appointed Tuchel without appointing Rudiger and Kante too. It is like you buy a Tesla or Apple. Like you have a engine of Tesla, but wheels or other units from a totally different brand. Then it will not guarantees that it will optimal if everything are from Tesla. Bayer was buying a top version and edition of Tuchel. And if They want and expect Tuchel to deliver champion performance. CL or Bundesliga champion. They got to buy and get the top ingredients too. Same and top quality and level. To get the same result.

Bayer and Tuchel bought Kim Min Jae from Napoli and Kane from Spurs. In central midfield Bayern have Kimmich and Goretzka. But Rudiger and Kante were build up different. Jae as CB and Goretzka and Kimmich doesn’t have the same top acceleration and explosiveness as Rudiger and Kante. So we will never see that Tuchel again. The champion edition with Chelsea.

  • But other big and main factors are. The high high expecations of the Bayern Munich bosses. They always want the coach helping to win Bundesliga and the biggest trophies.
They are second in the table. Compare to Chelsea 10-12 place.

And when Tuchel and his Bayern team could match those expectations they got sacked. Same for previous coaches.

  • Another reason is that your opponent teams and rivals are doing so so good and better your team. It lead you team to second on the table of loosing matches in champion league. Simple your opponents teams are doing better.




Now, I will analyze reasons and factors behind Alonso success

Then I will take us back to Bayer Leverkusen last season. When they ended 6 th on the table. Where they were at the bottom of the table in the start of the season. Where they lost 4 of the 5 matches.

Alonso got appointed 5 Oct 2022. But still Florian Wirtz were out of long time injury. And when Wirtz was back. Leverkusen still lost here and there.

  • Florian Wirtz only played 1089 minutes season 22/23
  • Now let us move forward to season 23/24. It was that summer transfer 23 the chef and coach Alonso got a higher level and quality of ingredients to create a top teams that will deliver performances on a more consistent high level.
Here are some of the key and main changes Alonso, his staff and Bayer Leverkusen did :

  • Xhaka. On 6 July 2023. Signed from Arsenal for 21.4 mill £. Now Alonso and Leverkusen got a really good and quality central midfield playmaker. Who control and dictate Leverkusen attack and build up.
  • Grimaldo. 21 May 2023 signed from Benfica. Who turn out to help Leverkusen a lot. He has 8 goals and 9 assists as left wing back/left midfielder
  • Victor Boniface. CF. On 22 July 2023 sign from Union SG for 20.50 mill Euros. A beast of a CF. A right foot Lukaku. Who has 10 goals and 7 assist this season
  • Josip Stanisic on loan from Bayern Munich. 20 August 2023. A defender for squad depth.
  • Nathan Tella. 27. August 2023 from Southampton for 20 mill £. 4 goals and 1 assist in 308 Bundesliga minutes.
So from those info and stats above. I would believe Xhaka, Boniface and Grimaldo were the most key and important changes. With the most impact.

Like early. We all can see. All best coaches and master chef at restaurant need top quality ingredients to create top quality meals and performances. That will make peoples really enjoy and coming back for more. On a top, highest and consistent level.



+ Other factors are that Bayern Munich has dropped more points than Leverkusen in Bundesliga. Not only lost 3-0 to Leverkusen.



+ Invisible factors/ingredients :

Now. I will write a bit about invisible factors like : Get and have most luck + Have most karma. And why luck belong to invisible factor? Because can we weight or count luck?

All the factors above and in the first section of the analyzing belong to physical and visible factors.

Because if you have most and more luck and the opponent teams and rivals. This factor lead and help things go your way. In your team favor.

We all have experience bottom teams used doesn’t have the margin, luck and things doesn’t use to go their ways.

So luck does play a big impact. A important factors. Because don’t tell me that bottom team players do not work hard? They works theirs socks off too. But the money involved and everything. It is really hard for bottom teams to battle against the top teams.

But I will not go deeper in to luck. Like how and why someone and group are more lucky than others. It belong to belief. We can’t see luck. It is invisible. We get to belief. That luck is a key and important factor and ingredients.

Just like you have rich uncles and dad to support and buy everything you want and need. Like born into rich and wealthy. But it does has reasons and factors lead to it. To that result.

Someone calling and quote “You make your own luck”. We all are our own creator and architect behind all results. So I do agree with it. But no more analyzing about “luck”





+ Now for Bayern Munich after sacking of Tuchel. Hiring and appoint a new head coach. How to avoid to do the same mistake. Special if BM want to appoint Alonso. Then like the analyzing above.

They have to analyzing what lead and what were behind Alonso success? What ingredients and factors that lead to Alonso success. What is the recipe behind Alonso and Bayer Leverkusen top quality performances and meals on a top consistent level.

Then top and right players in theirs position, theirs role and what they are doing on the football pitch. Like what is the effects of the ingredients in that top quality meal.



And in the end.

Consistent success performances = result of We. Not because of only 1 person or unit.

Like and example :


A top successful formel one driver = We = A top car/vehicle + opponents level + luck + team staff + top bed to sleep on + a lot more others factors = A top formel 1 driver.


A winning successful team/player/coach are the same = top ingredient + top ingredient + top ingredient


Second rate ingredients will leads to = second rate meals and result.


Why I think most master chef at restaurant always seek for best, fresh and top quality ingredients to create their meals.

Same for head coaches in football. They always want the best hard working players and talents.

Football like everything, is part of life and this Universe. It get to be reasons and factors behind everything.



So I have tried to analyze and write about the most key and important factors. Like advisor for Billionaire and club owners.

And of course. There are many ways and path to the top of the mountain. But to reach the top of the mountain. Like Everest or others tops mountain. It require best quality clothes, guidance, top physical condition.

And because in competition world. You are fighting and battle against rivals and opponent with the best ingredients. You come with second best ingredients. It is really really hard to compete against your opponents teams and rivals.



Everything collective or everything is result of we or many units gel together. It means. We have to see thing with a wider perspective. Not a narrow perspective. Like because only of ME&I.

The chance to succeed more is. To have a wider, wider and right perspective on things in life. They most important key to success. How we see things = Perspective.

Then we find the best teammates, helpers and guidances. Best factors & Ingredients.
 

rimaldo

All about the essence
Joined
Jan 10, 2008
Messages
41,145
Supports
arse
no!!! they’re not ready for this level of insight.