Diogo Dalot

Valencia Shin Crosses said:

Thank you for this. Honestly Dalot seems to have become the litmus test for football knowledge in our fan base. So many still think he’s crap based on some horror shows from seasons past when the truth is he’s massively upgraded the defensive side of his game and learned how to impact it going forward as well even while still being a horrid crosser of the ball. But because he isn’t AWB spider tackling constantly or whipping in TAA crosses people think he doesn’t do anything.

No he’s not “world class” but he’s a very solid starter and would be for a majority of teams in Europe.

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Maybe some discussion behaviour seem to have become the litmus test for general intelligence for some posters. Try to get your superiority complex in check, we are talking about laymans perception of football players here, there can be different standpoint than yours, don't you think? And I haven't seen many calling him crap in here in while, just people thinking that his overall level might not be all that.

You yourself are saying he isn't worldclass - so it is in line with for example my point of view when I say United should at least aspire to bring in somebody with a potentially higher ceiling. Have you failed the litmus test as well then?

Lets be happy that right now, RB doesn't seem to be that much of a priority and Dalot is establishing himself and stabilizing his output. I still would be tempted to bring in somebody like Frimpong, a player known for his attacking contribution. But granted, the football world currently isn't filled with great prospects for the fullback position - but the rarity alone doesn't raise the level of the available ones on itself.

stevoc said:

Which one out of Evra and Rafael was the latter?

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Exceptions confirm the hypothesis.

Plus I think, when those two played in the same team, Evra was already slowing down to a degree. But I guess if Fergie had access to players who were as good as Evra and Rafael (in theory) on and against the ball, than he was ready to use it. Doesn't really matter in respect to todays situation as the point was that I think it would be good to have at least one Fullback who really adds something to the attack, which Dalot only does in glimpses and Shaw only when he has a really good game.

NZT-One said:

Exceptions confirm the hypothesis.

Plus I think, when those two played in the same team, Evra was already slowing down to a degree. But I guess if Fergie had access to players who were as good as Evra and Rafael (in theory) on and against the ball, than he was ready to use it. Doesn't really matter in respect to todays situation as the point was that I think it would be good to have at least one Fullback who really adds something to the attack, which Dalot only does in glimpses and Shaw only when he has a really good game.

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Indeed mate, SAF often played OShea or Brown at Fullback for a bit of extra height against certain teams. Certainly when Rafael was a regular as teams like Stoke tended to target him aerially.

But yeah these days you definitely need one of your fullbacks a bit more defensively minded with the ability to tuck into midfield.

stevoc said:

Indeed mate, SAF often played OShea or Brown at Fullback for a bit of extra height against certain teams. Certainly when Rafael was a regular as teams like Stoke tended to target him aerially.

But yeah these days you definitely need one of your fullbacks a bit more defensively minded with the ability to tuck into midfield.

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Yeah at least with ETH that seems to be the case. It is a formation thing, would we play a "traditional 4-2-3-1" with two holding players, that wouldn't be as necessary. But certainly, for the more recent fluid formations, it is good to have fullbacks who can join the midfield.

Not a big fan of him, but I feel like he’s stepped up recently

NZT-One said:

Maybe some discussion behaviour seem to have become the litmus test for general intelligence for some posters. Try to get your superiority complex in check, we are talking about laymans perception of football players here, there can be different standpoint than yours, don't you think? And I haven't seen many calling him crap in here in while, just people thinking that his overall level might not be all that.

You yourself are saying he isn't worldclass - so it is in line with for example my point of view when I say United should at least aspire to bring in somebody with a potentially higher ceiling. Have you failed the litmus test as well then?

Lets be happy that right now, RB doesn't seem to be that much of a priority and Dalot is establishing himself and stabilizing his output. I still would be tempted to bring in somebody like Frimpong, a player known for his attacking contribution. But granted, the football world currently isn't filled with great prospects for the fullback position - but the rarity alone doesn't raise the level of the available ones on itself.

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Superiority complex

Literally majority of posts in this thread range from "he's crap needs replacing" to a begrudging "eh I don't like him but he was alright today. I'm sure he'll feck up again though". People make up their minds and then it's impossible to change them, and many made their minds up on him years ago when he was getting torched for fun. You want to bring in somebody with a "higher ceiling" but there's not really a player out there that fits the bill besides the aformentioned Frimpong, who himself is far more of a flying wingback that gets torched defensively but is excellent in the final third and plays in 5atb system. So no I haven't "failed the litmus test" by saying a good player is playing good for us. Not every player in the XI will be world class and this year it's quite clear he's been on of our best players as a whole on the season compared to how awful some more notable names have been for the majority of it.

Valencia Shin Crosses said:

Superiority complex

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Thats how it comes across if somebody talks about other peoples capabilities in terms of "football knowledge".

Valencia Shin Crosses said:

Literally majority of posts in this thread range from "he's crap needs replacing" to a begrudging "eh I don't like him but he was alright today. I'm sure he'll feck up again though". People make up their minds and then it's impossible to change them, and many made their minds up on him years ago when he was getting torched for fun.

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Ah and because you know better than all of them, they are wrong. Got it.

Valencia Shin Crosses said:

You want to bring in somebody with a "higher ceiling" but there's not really a player out there that fits the bill

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Ah so you are a scout, that explains the level of football knowledge then.

Valencia Shin Crosses said:

besides the aformentioned Frimpong, who himself is far more of a flying wingback that gets torched defensively but is excellent in the final third and plays in 5atb system. So no I haven't "failed the litmus test" by saying a good player is playing good for us. Not every player in the XI will be world class and this year it's quite clear he's been on of our best players as a whole on the season compared to how awful some more notable names have been for the majority of it.

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Yeah he was fantastic in what is a rather disappointing season for us. That obviously means a lot - you surely backed up your take then. Thank god, sometimes people like you take the time to explain stuff to us minors on here

NZT-One said:

Thats how it comes across if somebody talks about other peoples capabilities in terms of "football knowledge".


Ah and because you know better than all of them, they are wrong. Got it.


Ah so you are a scout, that explains the level of football knowledge then.


Yeah we was fantastic in what is a rather disappointing season for us. That obviously means a lot - you surely backed up your take then. Thanks god, sometimes people like you take the time to explain stuff to us minors on here

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Ah yes according to you then no one is allowed to have any sort of knowledge of the sport unless they are paid to do so Why the feck are any of us here if it's not to discuss/debate United and football in general? By your logic we should all just watch MOTD and just repeat what the pundits say since they were pros so clearly they must be right about everything compared to the rest of us who aren't.

And according to you, a player playing well while the team doesn't means nothing? How the feck does that make any sense?

Valencia Shin Crosses said:

Ah yes according to you then no one is allowed to have any sort of knowledge of the sport unless they are paid to do so

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Who said that? You were the one starting to talk about this supposed knowledge, that apparently you have and the critics of Dalot do not. Sorry mate, you put yourself in that spot.

Valencia Shin Crosses said:

Why the feck are any of us here if it's not to discuss/debate United and football in general? By your logic we should all just watch MOTD and just repeat what the pundits say since they were pros so clearly they must be right about everything compared to the rest of us who aren't.

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Is there a chance, that there are some dialogues happening in your head? Because I implied none of that. At all.

Valencia Shin Crosses said:

And according to you, a player playing well while the team doesn't means nothing? How the feck does that make any sense?

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You sure you read my posts? Who said that him playing well means nothing? I said that I don't see any glimpse of potential world class. And provided I want United to be the best team in the world, I want United to have the best possible players in the world. Which means, if the time comes, there is (as of now) no reason not to question Dalot. Doesn't mean I think hes crap, should be sold asap or anything.

NZT-One said:

Who said that? You were the one starting to talk about this supposed knowledge, that apparently you have and the critics of Dalot do not. Sorry mate, you put yourself in that spot.

You literally implied it by spewing sarcasm that I was a football scout! Jesus the contradictions are incredible at this point. Your entire response was just straight sarcasm

Is there a chance, that there are some dialogues happening in your head? Because I implied none of that. At all.

Might want to re-read basically anything you post then.

You sure you read my posts? Who said that him playing well means nothing? I said that I don't see any glimpse of potential world class. And provided I want United to be the best team in the world, I want United to have the best possible players in the world. Which means, if the time comes, there is (as of now) no reason not to question Dalot. Doesn't mean I think hes crap, should be sold asap or anything.

“Yeah we was fantastic in what is a rather disappointing season for us. That obviously means a lot - you surely backed up your take then.” Go ahead and tell me that isn’t you being sarcastic

This is all pointless, I don’t disagree that we should look to get the best players in the world at each position, I never disagreed with that in the first place. The rest of the argument is just you being a bit cnutish because you’re upset I called out posters repeatedly slagging him or refusing to admit he’s good this season and stated that if they are doing so they don’t know what they are talking about. And yeah I stand by that. He’s not world class but he’s a pretty good fullback now, and hugely improved from early years with us.

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you guys.

Within certain caveats i.e no derailing injuries and we actually start to play in a properly coached way and become a dominant team, I'm gonna double down and say Dalot's individual potential as a right back is as high the league's best and arguably in Europe too.

So one big if (injuries) and the other an even bigger one (we actually improve as a team under ETH or someone else). If the latter stays as is, then yeah forget Dalot, nobody is going to look world class in this team.

TsuWave said:

Not a big fan of him, but I feel like he’s stepped up recently

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Same.

Well I've never had issue with his ability, just his brain/positioning. I still think this is an issue. He can't seem to differentiate coming inside with literally just playing in midfield, which is fine until we lose the ball or an attack breaks down because he isn't a midfielder and has pretty poor decision making (second goal last week he played an absolutely god awful crossfield pass behind everyone and got lucky)...but he has cut out a lot of the errors that used to happen 4-5 times a game, and has been making positive contributions instead. I think its his best spell of form for us, or will be if he can keep it up for a bit.

I think Garnacho being on that side helps him. As would Antony if he wasn't in such poor form. It means there is still someone there to occupy the opposition when he goes wandering, so he doesn't end up needing to be in two places at once 90% of the time.

he is really beginning to play like Mazaroui did at Ajax. When we are attacking he becomes a midfileder giving Casemiro and Mainoo more freedom

dutchred said:

he is really beginning to play like Mazaroui did at Ajax. When we are attacking he becomes a midfileder giving Casemiro and Mainoo more freedom

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There is an issue with that tactic. Him playing as a midfielder leaves acres of space out wide, and we have repeatedly struggled with that. You either have a CDM that can cover that ground or centre backs with pace. We look much better with Varane and Martinez because they are the fastest duo we have, and they have great anticipation. With Maguire, it becomes much more an issue.

Magnificent performance. World class.

MOTM for me, he's hit his pre World Cup form again when he was playing brilliantly. Hard to see AWB getting back into the team when he plays like this, I might suggest its AWB that goes in the summer

Magnificent cross today. Been said many times he has a great right peg.

Lovely cross for the winner today, if he can introduce that to his game consistently then there won't be many better than him.

Playing extremely well and has the potential to be even better once we hopefully sign a midfielder and CBs who are adept at controlling large space.

Monster today, can’t wait to argue some more this week with those who “aren’t convinced” until he puts in another top performance next week and we do it all over again

I don't care what anyone says, performances like today are exactly why I've said he's got immense potential and have tried to provide context to those, who don't see the talent in him.

Almost a one man right wing at times.

Think he was really good until the 70' minute or so where he had a few jammy situations. Remedied with his cross though, well done.

I’ve always rated and defender him but he wasn’t as good today as some of you are making out. They found a lot of space between him and the CB in the first half and he gifted Villa a golden chance with a terrible clearance.

I think he is our best RB option and has been playing well, but I thought he was shaly defensively today.

Great ball in for the winner looks soo comfortable on the ball a proper technician and improving all the time.

He's a ridiculousy talented 'with the ball' defender. That cross today is nothing surprising for me I've seen him strike the ball enough times to know he is capable of it.

Couple of superb crosses, one for the winner and other for the diving heading attempt by Hojlund.

Defensively it was a nightmare on his side, the space between him and Varane was too big and Ramsey had too many great chances on that side. It was like replay, same move so many times. Looks like we adapted and shut down that gap.

Funny how things change so quickly. His blunder clearance could have made him villain today but Villa player missed, his beautiful cross made him hero.

Superb performance. One mistake that could have been costly but otherwise brilliant

Excellent today, crucial assist as well.

If you were to draw a venn diagram with the circles 'fit and available,' 'reliable,' and 'does the job that we need him to do and does it pretty well', he would be at the centre of those circles. Other left/right backs might do certain elements better, but he is greater than the sum of his parts.

Very very good today.

criticalanalysis said:

I don't care what anyone says, performances like today are exactly why I've said he's got immense potential and have tried to provide context to those, who don't see the talent in him.

Almost a one man right wing at times.

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He’s a strange player

I agree that he’s got huge potential. And he is playing well and returning to pre World Cup form…which is great.

I don’t trust thought it’s a constant because we just see so many ups and back downs again.

If he could maintain he’d be a strong player for us. Let’s hope as he matures he can become consistently good. Only time will tell.

Another 12 months of ups and downs though and I also wouldn’t be bothered seeing him replaced. If he can’t be trusted to regularly hit the levels he’s capable of, we can’t rely on him. (Rashford says hello)

What a cross......

Adnan said:

Playing extremely well and has the potential to be even better once we hopefully sign a midfielder and CBs who are adept at controlling large space.

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He is enjoy the space on the right and a forward that expects him to overlap. Him, Bruno and Onana were the best on the field today.

MoTM for me and one of players of the season. He's got better and better this season.

Raven said:

Lovely cross for the winner today, if he can introduce that to his game consistently then there won't be many better than him.

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He usually hits those ones way too high but got it perfect. Hopefully he’s been working on it as he’s been pushing on a lot in the last few months.

Defensively shaky, but what a cross!

He’s turning into a monster for us - so good on the overlap or even running the wing on his own. Fantastic crosses in the second half.

Had one tricky clearance at the back post that he didn’t get good contact on but 2 years ago that’s the type of run he wasn’t good at tracking - now he’s much more consistent on covering those.

I thought we did a bad job bringing him into the attack and possession during the first half, but ultimately made a telling contribution.