Should players with defibs be allowed to play Premier League or should we ban them like Serie A?

SilentWitness

ShoelessWitness
Staff
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
30,608
Supports
Everton
Serie A bans players who have them as any contact could damage or break the defib. There are many factors at risk regarding people who play with them. I wouldn't say you need to be a medical expert to consider that as a risk you may not want to have in your sport or league.

Also when it comes to impact you don't need to have to be a medical expert when considering the mental side of the game regarding the player themselves and the people in the stadium when someone collapses.
 

Baneofthegame

Full Member
Joined
May 15, 2019
Messages
3,015
bosnian_red said:
No. But I've watched football my whole life and have played football at some level my whole life. So I can say "an opinion", on a football forum, with some backing.

I'm not a physician (though my brother and father in law is). Actually my in law is a cardiologist. So I could probably get a worthwhile opinion on this topic by a simple convo.

Let me clarify. You're allowed to give your opinion even if it's uneducated. It's just a pointless discussion as it's probably entirely made up of completely uneducated comments on the topic. So it's a waste of time.
Click to expand...
Bit of an odd stance regarding opinions, I would assume you just don’t engage in any talking unless you’re an expert on the matter with the required background in the field as well.

Personally with my own “pointless opinion” on the matter, it’s not just Lockyear but also the mental side of fans/players who might potentially watch him die in front of him that is also troubling, especially after it’s his second time in the past year?
 

bosnian_red

Worst scout to ever exist
Joined
Aug 13, 2011
Messages
58,077
Location
Canada
Baneofthegame said:
Bit of an odd stance regarding opinions, I would assume you just don’t engage in any talking unless you’re an expert on the matter with the required background in the field as well.

Personally with my own “pointless opinion” on the matter, it’s not just Lockyear but also the mental side of fans/players who might potentially watch him die in front of him that is also troubling, especially after it’s his second time in the past year?
Click to expand...
It's a specific stance on medical things. The opinions of the masses are usually shit, so I'll stick to the educated opinion of the experts. In this instance, the expert has cleared him to play, explained the risks to the player and his family and they've decided to go forward with it. Nobody else's opinion matters. I'm not going to sit in the stands and tell somebody they can't do what they love because some random bloke might be worried about what they see.
 

SilentWitness

ShoelessWitness
Staff
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
30,608
Supports
Everton
bosnian_red said:
It's a specific stance on medical things. The opinions of the masses are usually shit, so I'll stick to the educated opinion of the experts. In this instance, the expert has cleared him to play, explained the risks to the player and his family and they've decided to go forward with it. Nobody else's opinion matters. I'm not going to sit in the stands and tell somebody they can't do what they love because some random bloke might be worried about what they see.
Click to expand...
So why do you listen to the PL experts and not the Serie A ones?
 

bosnian_red

Worst scout to ever exist
Joined
Aug 13, 2011
Messages
58,077
Location
Canada
SilentWitness said:
So why do you listen to the PL experts and not the Serie A ones?
Click to expand...
Serie A choosing to do it is a bit pointless given it doesn't prevent players from playing or going to another league. It seems to me like a wanting to dodge liability decision more than anything. It's not PL experts. It's just something that is between the player and their doctor, and their specific individual case. If the doctor clears them and they accept their own risks, then it is nobody elses business. It doesn't mean it won't happen again. It just means the player is making a conscious choice and knowing what his risks are if he wants to go through with them. Why should my opinion count for anything?
 

SilentWitness

ShoelessWitness
Staff
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
30,608
Supports
Everton
bosnian_red said:
Serie A choosing to do it is a bit pointless given it doesn't prevent players from playing or going to another league. It seems to me like a wanting to dodge liability decision more than anything. It's not PL experts. It's just something that is between the player and their doctor, and their specific individual case. If the doctor clears them and they accept their own risks, then it is nobody elses business. It doesn't mean it won't happen again. It just means the player is making a conscious choice and knowing what his risks are if he wants to go through with them. Why should my opinion count for anything?
Click to expand...
It just seems like a weird stance. Why have an opinion on anything then.
 

bosnian_red

Worst scout to ever exist
Joined
Aug 13, 2011
Messages
58,077
Location
Canada
SilentWitness said:
It just seems like a weird stance. Why have an opinion on anything then.
Click to expand...
Healthcare is between the physician, the individual it affects and their family. Nobody else. Is that not a pretty reasonable stance? Why does my uneducated opinion count for somebody else's heart issues if the specialist said it was fine?

There are plenty of things to have an opinion on. Somebody else's healthcare shouldn't be one of them.
 

SilentWitness

ShoelessWitness
Staff
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
30,608
Supports
Everton
bosnian_red said:
Healthcare is between the physician, the individual it affects and their family. Nobody else. Is that not a pretty reasonable stance? Why does my uneducated opinion count for somebody else's heart issues if the specialist said it was fine?

There are plenty of things to have an opinion on. Somebody else's healthcare shouldn't be one of them.
Click to expand...
As said before, there is risk in contact sport of the defib being damaged, there is the mental side of stuff to the situation. There are loads of other factors external to the one you're giving.

It's not just about the individual player considering and opponent or teammate can be directly responsible for the damage.
 

Lynty

Full Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2014
Messages
3,094
Murder on Zidane's Floor said:
I think a person being willing to die isn't enough of a reason to allow it and the welfare of the players is paramount, regardless whether they're OK with the risks.
Click to expand...
There were 57 deaths as a result of skiing last year in the US. Should skiing be banned?

To some players, competing in football at the highest level is literally their life. If they’ve had sound medical advice and receive the best possible care to reduce the risk - they should absolutely be allowed to continue playing.

Not everyone is afraid of death.
 

Murder on Zidane's Floor

You'd better not kill Giroud
Joined
Jun 11, 2015
Messages
28,677
Lynty said:
There were 57 deaths as a result of skiing last year in the US. Should skiing be banned?

To some players, competing in football at the highest level is literally their life. If they’ve had sound medical advice and receive the best possible care to reduce the risk - they should absolutely be allowed to continue playing.

Not everyone is afraid of death.
Click to expand...
Not quite the same thing is it. Like, a false equivalency.

I'm talking about players with preexisting conditions playing and potentially dying on the pitch during televised entertainment.
 

Murder on Zidane's Floor

You'd better not kill Giroud
Joined
Jun 11, 2015
Messages
28,677
bosnian_red said:
It's a specific stance on medical things. The opinions of the masses are usually shit, so I'll stick to the educated opinion of the experts. In this instance, the expert has cleared him to play, explained the risks to the player and his family and they've decided to go forward with it. Nobody else's opinion matters. I'm not going to sit in the stands and tell somebody they can't do what they love because some random bloke might be worried about what they see.
Click to expand...
Cleared him to play and yet he had a cardiac arrest again.

You know sometimes the medical experts also have opinions, sometimes quite varied from colleagues in the same field, pray tell, which one do you listen too?
 

Murder on Zidane's Floor

You'd better not kill Giroud
Joined
Jun 11, 2015
Messages
28,677
Scarlett Dracarys said:
If he's cleared by medical professionals and it's not affecting his performance I don't see why he shouldn't be allowed to play. The defibrillator was installed as a safety precaution to prevent death so he should be fine.
Click to expand...
If I recall, he had a cardiac arrest, came back to life, was cleared to play, played, had another cardiac arrest and now a defib has been installed.
 

Murder on Zidane's Floor

You'd better not kill Giroud
Joined
Jun 11, 2015
Messages
28,677
bosnian_red said:
Serie A choosing to do it is a bit pointless given it doesn't prevent players from playing or going to another league. It seems to me like a wanting to dodge liability decision more than anything. It's not PL experts. It's just something that is between the player and their doctor, and their specific individual case. If the doctor clears them and they accept their own risks, then it is nobody elses business. It doesn't mean it won't happen again. It just means the player is making a conscious choice and knowing what his risks are if he wants to go through with them. Why should my opinion count for anything?
Click to expand...
Are you a legal liability expert?
 

Reapersoul20

Can Anderson score? No.
Joined
Aug 13, 2006
Messages
12,153
Location
Jog on
Murder on Zidane's Floor said:
That's odd, I take it you don't comment on the NHS/Healthcare of your country? It's an opinion and we are allowed to have these, given this is a "football forum".

Secondly, Serie A have a policy that is different to ours, do their medical teams have too small a knowledge?
Click to expand...
Commenting about the your local healthcare system is NOT the same as commenting about an individuals ability to continue on following a health-scare. Comparison of such is completely clueless.

Close members of my family have suffered from cardiac arrests and been subject to arseholes commenting about their chances of survival, and viability for future work positions because of the brain damage they suffered due to lack of oxygen. These comments were made by unqualified people without requisite knowledge of an almost always completely unique situation. People who don't know the damage they do by making ham-fisted, idiotic assumptions.
 

Lynty

Full Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2014
Messages
3,094
Murder on Zidane's Floor said:
Not quite the same thing is it. Like, a false equivalency.

I'm talking about players with preexisting conditions playing and potentially dying on the pitch during televised entertainment.
Click to expand...
I understand your argument, but skiing comes with obvious risks and you need to consider your own pre-existing conditions before taking to the slopes. It’s not up to anyone else to make that decision for you. The impact on your mental health alone, to have football taken from you - can’t really be considered by anyone but the individual.

My original argument was that it’s unnatural that so many of the world fittest athletes have pre-existing heart conditions- hence the root cause needs to be addressed.

Death really isn’t that big of a deal for many people, it sounds like you have an anxious viewpoint on death, but that isn’t the norm. Perhaps it’s because I work in medicine where people are more numb to it?

Whenever my time comes, I’ll welcome the break :lol:
 

adexkola

Doesn't understand sportswashing.
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
48,477
Location
The CL is a glorified FA Cup set to music
Supports
orderly disembarking on planes
Murder on Zidane's Floor said:
Not quite the same thing is it. Like, a false equivalency.

I'm talking about players with preexisting conditions playing and potentially dying on the pitch during televised entertainment.
Click to expand...
So your concern isn't for them, but for those watching?

I think those watching will be fine. People die everyday
 

Murder on Zidane's Floor

You'd better not kill Giroud
Joined
Jun 11, 2015
Messages
28,677
Reapersoul20 said:
Commenting about the your local healthcare system is NOT the same as commenting about an individuals ability to continue on following a health-scare. Comparison of such is completely clueless.

Close members of my family have suffered from cardiac arrests and been subject to arseholes commenting about their chances of survival, and viability for future work positions because of the brain damage they suffered due to lack of oxygen. These comments were made by unqualified people without requisite knowledge of an almost always completely unique situation. People who don't know the damage they do by making ham-fisted, idiotic assumptions.
Click to expand...
We're they a public facing athlete who went on national TV to show their defibs?

Sorry but what have your family got to do with me questioning whether Tom should keep playing a contact sport with a machine inside him?

I've had family die by heart attack. By stroke. By cancer. I don't say that unless someone is a doctor, they can't have an opinion on these conditions.
 

Murder on Zidane's Floor

You'd better not kill Giroud
Joined
Jun 11, 2015
Messages
28,677
adexkola said:
So your concern isn't for them, but for those watching?

I think those watching will be fine. People die everyday
Click to expand...
Imagine reading what I said and concluding I don't care about Tom Lockyer.

Also, possibly the worst statement in here so far, people die everyday so it's fine for a player to die on the pitch in front of 50,000 people? What is this, ancient Rome?!
 

Reapersoul20

Can Anderson score? No.
Joined
Aug 13, 2006
Messages
12,153
Location
Jog on
Murder on Zidane's Floor said:
We're they a public facing athlete who went on national TV to show their defibs?

Sorry but what have your family got to do with me questioning whether Tom should keep playing a contact sport with a machine inside him?

I've had family die by heart attack. By stroke. By cancer. I don't say that unless someone is a doctor, they can't have an opinion on these conditions.
Click to expand...
You can have an opinion, I guess. It doesn't mean anyone should pay any mind to it though.

On that note, g'luck.
 

noodlehair

"It's like..."
Joined
Apr 1, 2004
Messages
16,370
Location
Flagg
If a professionally qualified doctor with the necessary expertise says they are ok to play I don't think I'm in a position to argue otherwise. Especially as I had to google how to spell defibrillator and have also just learned I've been pronouncing it wrong.

It should be an independent doctor though not one employed by the club, or rather should need independent ratification. Partly to ensure the assessment is done correctly and partly so one person doesn't end up getting rightly or wrongly being blamed if something does go wrong.

My feeling though is someone will collapse and not wake up at some point and that will be the end of it. I just don't have any informed reasoning to base that on
 

AndySmith1990

Full Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2021
Messages
6,255
If the player feels fit enough to play and the medical advise he receives states he's OK to play, why is it anyone else's place to prevent him?
 

AbusementPark

Operates the Unfairest Wheel
Joined
Jul 27, 2014
Messages
2,619
Location
Belfast
What happens if hes tackled or the ball is hit against his side? Any chance of breaking the device inside?
 

bosnian_red

Worst scout to ever exist
Joined
Aug 13, 2011
Messages
58,077
Location
Canada
Murder on Zidane's Floor said:
Cleared him to play and yet he had a cardiac arrest again.

You know sometimes the medical experts also have opinions, sometimes quite varied from colleagues in the same field, pray tell, which one do you listen too?
Click to expand...
Everyone is entitled to go to their own doctor and make decisions on their own life. Somebody else's anxiety means feck all to them.

If you are uncomfortable with Tom playing football with a defib machine in him, then that sounds like your problem, not his.

This is the exact same argument as random old white men in politics who tell women they aren't allowed to get abortions. It's their body, they can make whatever decision they want with it. They should listen to independent doctors and advice of course. But it's their decision to make, not somebody else's. The premier league should have an independent medical consult to determine if somebody should be cleared to play. If they clear it, then everyone else's opinion means feck all. Even if it leads to future issues. It's all about likelihoods of something happening and what risks the current situation poses. Some players might choose to retire. Others will choose to play on. That is their choice.
 

Murder on Zidane's Floor

You'd better not kill Giroud
Joined
Jun 11, 2015
Messages
28,677
bosnian_red said:
Everyone is entitled to go to their own doctor and make decisions on their own life. Somebody else's anxiety means feck all to them.

If you are uncomfortable with Tom playing football with a defib machine in him, then that sounds like your problem, not his.

This is the exact same argument as random old white men in politics who tell women they aren't allowed to get abortions. It's their body, they can make whatever decision they want with it. They should listen to independent doctors and advice of course. But it's their decision to make, not somebody else's. The premier league should have an independent medical consult to determine if somebody should be cleared to play. If they clear it, then everyone else's opinion means feck all. Even if it leads to future issues. It's all about likelihoods of something happening and what risks the current situation poses. Some players might choose to retire. Others will choose to play on. That is their choice.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it is my problem, hence why I posted. This is all so weird.

Secondly, your next paragraph is absolutely bobbins. Me speaking about a player with a history of cardiac arrest continuing playing is the same as random old white men banning abortion? Just ridiculous.
 

bosnian_red

Worst scout to ever exist
Joined
Aug 13, 2011
Messages
58,077
Location
Canada
Murder on Zidane's Floor said:
Yeah, it is my problem, hence why I posted. This is all so weird.

Secondly, your next paragraph is absolutely bobbins. Me speaking about a player with a history of cardiac arrest continuing playing is the same as random old white men banning abortion? Just ridiculous.
Click to expand...
It all falls under people can make decisions about themselves, for themselves, with their own medical input. Nobody else should be able tell somebody they aren't allowed because of their own (uneducated) opinion on the matter.

If a medical panel from a certain league decides to implement it, then that's on them, but the player will just move to a league that allows it anyway.
 

NICanRed

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Oct 3, 2018
Messages
266
Can anyone tell me if there is a case where a player has collapsed/died while using a defibrillator?
Maybe it is players without the device who are more likely to die in combat!
 

Murder on Zidane's Floor

You'd better not kill Giroud
Joined
Jun 11, 2015
Messages
28,677
bosnian_red said:
It all falls under people can make decisions about themselves, for themselves, with their own medical input. Nobody else should be able tell somebody they aren't allowed because of their own (uneducated) opinion on the matter.

If a medical panel from a certain league decides to implement it, then that's on them, but the player will just move to a league that allows it anyway.
Click to expand...
No one is telling him he cannot play. It's a conversation about the wider point, in part because this has just happened. Should the premier league step is the question?
 

Pogue Mahone

The caf's Camus.
Joined
Feb 22, 2006
Messages
134,029
Location
"like a man in silk pyjamas shooting pigeons
I don’t really get the premise of this thread. The decision to play is made between the player and the cardiologist advising him. He certainly shouldn’t be stopped from continuing with his dream job to spare the sensibilities of anyone watching.

I don’t know anything about the Serie A rationale for not allowing players to continue playing with these devices fitted but the PL approach certainly seems like a better/fairer one to me.
 

bosnian_red

Worst scout to ever exist
Joined
Aug 13, 2011
Messages
58,077
Location
Canada
Murder on Zidane's Floor said:
No one is telling him he cannot play. It's a conversation about the wider point, in part because this has just happened. Should the premier league step is the question?
Click to expand...
And the question to that is why would the prem step in if the physician told him of the risks and likelihoods, and the player himself made the choice for himself? Why should anybody else come into play?
 

Murder on Zidane's Floor

You'd better not kill Giroud
Joined
Jun 11, 2015
Messages
28,677
Pogue Mahone said:
I don’t really get the premise of this thread. The decision to play is made between the player and the cardiologist advising him. He certainly shouldn’t be stopped from continuing with his dream job to spare the sensibilities of anyone watching.

I don’t know anything about the Serie A rationale for not allowing players to continue playing with these devices fitted but the PL approach certainly seems like a better/fairer one to me.
Click to expand...
I find these responses exceptionally weird. Just all-around odd. I imagine his previous cardiologist advised him he could return to football and yet he then almost died on the pitch inside of six months? Does this not seem weird to people? Like, the next cardiologist will tell him he can go back to football. What happens if he collapses again? What if he dies this time?

My post: Given he has collapsed twice now and was cleared by the club's medical staff to play again, I think we have to have a rule, similar to Serie A that the players with defibs cannot play in the league. No one wants to see young men dying on the pitch surrounded by advertisements for betting companies and tires.

ITALY:
La Gazzetta dello Sport explains that in Italy, it’s forbidden to play with a heart defibrillator implanted, as per the Cardiological Organizational Committee for Sports Fitness protocol, which was updated in 2017.

Any contact sport is forbidden in Italy with such a device implanted, while it is possible to continue playing in other leagues, such as the Eredivisie or the Premier League. Ajax and the Netherlands defender Daley Blind is an example as the Dutch centre-back has a heart starter implanted.

Former Inter midfielder Khalilou Fadiga was diagnosed with heart disease upon his arrival to Inter in 2002 and never played in a Nerazzurri shirt, but continued his career in the Premier League.

Italian authorities do not allow play any contact sport with a heart defibrillator implanted as any contact or hit could break the device.
Click to expand...
 

Pogue Mahone

The caf's Camus.
Joined
Feb 22, 2006
Messages
134,029
Location
"like a man in silk pyjamas shooting pigeons
Murder on Zidane's Floor said:
I find these responses exceptionally weird. Just all-around odd. I imagine his previous cardiologist advised him he could return to football and yet he then almost died on the pitch inside of six months? Does this not seem weird to people? Like, the next cardiologist will tell him he can go back to football. What happens if he collapses again? What if he dies this time?

My post: Given he has collapsed twice now and was cleared by the club's medical staff to play again, I think we have to have a rule, similar to Serie A that the players with defibs cannot play in the league. No one wants to see young men dying on the pitch surrounded by advertisements for betting companies and tires.

ITALY:
Click to expand...
The fact he has collapsed twice has nothing to do with the rationale for the ban in Italy, which is around concerns that the device might break during a collision. I’m sure the technology has moved on since then (2017) and it’s possible to make them much stronger. His device certainly looks unusually big. They’re usually tucked away behind the clavicle. So it may well be a souped up, bomb proof version.

As for the risk of an individual collapsing and dying for reasons that have nothing to do with a collision they face that risk whatever they choose to do. Why not let them take that risk doing the sport they love? (and provides for their family) I doubt there’s any evidence that physical exertion increases the risk of these sort of sudden cardiac arrhythmias. And if there is, I’d rather do any serious exertion with one of these devices on when I have an expert medical team on standby (which is the case for PL footballer) rather than on a treadmill in some random gym. The guy in the OP would probably be dead now if he hadn’t been allowed to continue playing PL football.
 

Murder on Zidane's Floor

You'd better not kill Giroud
Joined
Jun 11, 2015
Messages
28,677
Pogue Mahone said:
The fact he has collapsed twice has nothing to do with the rationale for the ban in Italy, which is around concerns that the device might break during a collision. I’m sure the technology has moved on since then (2017) and it’s possible to make them much stronger. His device certainly looks unusually big. They’re usually tucked away behind the clavicle. So it may well be a souped up, bomb proof version.

As for the risk of an individual collapsing and dying for reasons that have nothing to do with a collision they face that risk whatever they choose to do. Why not let them take that risk doing the sport they love? (and provides for their family) I doubt there’s any evidence that physical exertion increases the risk of these sort of sudden cardiac arrhythmias. And if there is, I’d rather do any serious exertion with one of these devices on when I have an expert medical team on standby (which is the case for PL footballer) rather than on a treadmill in some random gym. The guy in the OP would probably be dead now if he hadn’t been allowed to continue playing PL football.
Click to expand...
Bold is a good point, would probably be dead or maybe he'd of never put himself under the strain required of a PL footballer. Who knows. But your argument kind of implies, that it's fine for him because he plays at a level with world-class medical care on hand. So what, he must always play at this level so the best medical care is always on standby for him. If he drops down two leagues, what then? I just don't get this kinda of argument, seems kinda of strange and well, not thought out.

"The fact he has collapsed twice has nothing to do with the rationale for the ban in Italy"
No, my rationale was the fact he has collapsed twice, nothing to do with Italy, you misunderstood. I was also showing you why, in answer to your question, Italy banned it in the quote.

"I doubt there’s any evidence that physical exertion increases the risk of these sort of sudden cardiac arrhythmias"
These data suggest that a blanket recommendation against competitive sports for all patients with ICDs is not warranted. There are risks and benefits of sports participation. However, neither do these data suggest that all sports are safe for all patients. How best to evaluate individual risk is an important avenue of future research. Stress testing is important to evaluate for the propensity of frequent exercise-induced ventricular arrhythmias, as well as for CPVT or ischemia, as clinically relevant. In addition, for patients with arrhythmogenic right ventricular cardiomyopathy, preliminary data37–39 suggest that exercise could accelerate the progression of the underlying disease. How physical activity might affect the phenotype in other cardiomyopathies such as hypertrophic cardiomyopathy has not been studied.

You're a medical guy, I am not, I'll leave this with you to understand. Interestingly, I have found the below studies, both with different conclusions/lots of detail - really quite interesting either way so thought I'd share :):

Third, with the increased employment of the implantable cardioverter-defibrillator (ICD) it is inevitable that increasing numbers of high-risk athletes with defibrillators will come to recognition. Although differences of opinion exist and little direct evidence is available, the panel asserts that the presence of an ICD (whether for primary or secondary prevention of sudden death) should disqualify athletes from most competitive sports (with the exception of low-intensity, class IA), including those that potentially involve bodily trauma. The presence of an implantable device in high-risk patients with cardiovascular disease should not be regarded as protective therapy and therefore a justification for permitting participation in competitive sports that would otherwise be restricted. This conservative but prudent posture is justified on the basis of the uncertainties associated with ICDs during intense competitive sports, including the possibility that the device will not perform effectively at peak exercise, the likelihood of a sinus tachycardia-triggered inappropriate shock or an appropriate discharge, and the risk for physical injury to the athlete or other competitors as the result of an ICD shock. Also, pacemaker-dependent athletes should not participate in most competitive sports that potentially involve bodily trauma.


Whereas more inappropriate and appropriate shocks occurred during physical activity (although not differing between competition/practice and other physical activity), overall rates of individuals receiving shocks in this population are similar to those reported for less active, more typical ICD populations, both adult and pediatric.24,29 Exercise exacerbates arrhythmias in apparently healthy individuals,30 in multiple disorders,31–33 and in ICD patients.34 The paradox of exercise is well described35: Although exercise can immediately trigger life-threatening ventricular arrhythmias, even in the physically fit, the better conditioned the individual, the less likely overall he or she is to die suddenly. Whether a similar phenomenon exists in younger patients with arrhythmogenic conditions is unknown, and whether shocks would have been less or more common in these relatively healthier patients had they abandoned vigorous physical activity cannot be determined.
Another rationale for recommending against sports participation for individuals with ICDs is concern that loss of control caused by syncopal arrhythmia or shock could result in injury.1,2 In this study, shocks occurring during competition or practice did not result in injury. The possibility of damage to leads or generator has been stated1 as another theoretical reason to recommend against sports participation. Lead survival rates in this study were similar to the previously described rates of 85% to 98% at 5 years in more typical ICD populations.36
These data suggest that a blanket recommendation against competitive sports for all patients with ICDs is not warranted. There are risks and benefits of sports participation. However, neither do these data suggest that all sports are safe for all patients. How best to evaluate individual risk is an important avenue of future research. Stress testing is important to evaluate for the propensity of frequent exercise-induced ventricular arrhythmias, as well as for CPVT or ischemia, as clinically relevant. In addition, for patients with arrhythmogenic right ventricular cardiomyopathy, preliminary data37–39 suggest that exercise could accelerate the progression of the underlying disease. How physical activity might affect the phenotype in other cardiomyopathies such as hypertrophic cardiomyopathy has not been studied.
Clinical management of ICD patients participating in sports remains to be defined, such as how best to prevent shocks in athletes, which may include stress testing and appropriate ICD programming.40,41 Half of the athletes in this study had rate cutoffs higher than that documented to be safe in unselected populations.41 However, although 2 participants had VT below the rate cutoffs, they were minimally symptomatic. It is possible that VT may be better tolerated given the preserved ejection fractions of these athletes. The optimum programming of ICDs in patients participating in sports is an important avenue of future research. Increased frequency of interrogation (in person or remotely) may detect early warning of changes in lead performance. β-Blocker use was not associated with decreased likelihood of appropriate shocks during competition/practice. However, because use of β-blockers was not randomized, their impact cannot be determined. β-Blockers may also protect against shocks for sinus tachycardia

The Bethesda guidelines state that patients with an ICD can participate only in “Class IA” activities, such as bowling or golf, restricting competition in sports such as track, basketball, lacrosse, and field hockey, as well as sports with a likelihood of severe impact to the ICD, such as football and hockey.
 

adexkola

Doesn't understand sportswashing.
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
48,477
Location
The CL is a glorified FA Cup set to music
Supports
orderly disembarking on planes
Murder on Zidane's Floor said:
Imagine reading what I said and concluding I don't care about Tom Lockyer.

Also, possibly the worst statement in here so far, people die everyday so it's fine for a player to die on the pitch in front of 50,000 people? What is this, ancient Rome?!
Click to expand...
Relax I was joking

But seriously though. He and his cardiologist has had a discussion and concluded that he can continue to play, and it seems he has had the conversation with his family. As long as they are all in concurrence, if you have any further reservations (without being a cardiologist or doctor), then your concerns most likely lie elsewhere.

It's not fine for a player to die on the pitch, but that is a risk we have accepted (high levels of physical exertion increase the chances we see unfortunate events like what happened to Eriksen and Lockyer) to watch high quality football. It's a risk the players accept as well. Why does that change now?

The only caveat worth noting is that insurance may charge him and the club higher rates and the club has every right to weigh that into the pros and cons of keeping him as an active player.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.