Fine. So he’s for sale.
I didn’t say he would negotiate (and I don’t care what he wants), just that we should.
Let's say INEOS go full fire sale this summer: Who are your untouchables?
- Thread starter Valencia Shin Crosses
- Start date
I didn’t say he would negotiate (and I don’t care what he wants), just that we should.
tomaldinho1
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He only didn’t leave because of money though.He had the opportunity to leave last summer knowing that staying would mean a backup role so what's changed?
daba
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What’s funny is that you start this off with we don’t need to do a huge fire sale and then proceed to list 8 players that we should look to sell, whilst missing off some of the more absolute departures in Sancho, Greenwood, Martial, DVB, maybe also Alvaro, Hannibal, Evans if we don’t extend, maybe Amad if ETH stays.I don't think it is realistic to do a huge fire sale with FFP.
The club benefits most from the sale of homegrown players, or those who's amortization period is over - i.e. off their initial contracts.
For that reason, I would be looking to shift Rashford, Lindelof and McTominay. If there are decent offers for AWB, Casemiro, Varane, Shaw and Maguire, they should be sold. Past their best and taking up a lot of space on the wage bill.
The issue will be trying to replace this number of players.
A fire sale is absolutely needed because we’re in a shocking position with a squad full of players not suited to dominate games of football in this modern era (eg. Our assortment of slow, passive CBs who aren’t great on the ball). We also have players OOC probably leaving for free this summer and players with only a year left that we either sell now, extend to protect their value (a la Woodward) and continue down this hole we are in or lose them for nothing in a year which won’t help FFP. We also have problem players like Sancho and Greenwood that will leave.
All in all, I don’t see how we avoid a firesale given our current predicament. I also don’t think replacing these players should be that difficult. We just need to be wise and make smart investments with young players in the £25-50m category, rather than the £60-80m category (eg. Todibo instead of Antonio Silva, Lucumi instead of Branthwaite), whilst picking up a free signing or two (eg. Doughty from Luton as LB cover).
I think we’ve been scarred by incompetency under the previous regime, thinking that it’s impossible to sign more than 4 players in a summer or sell any of our players full stop. I’m confident this will be completely different under Jim.
RedCoffee
Rants that backfired
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Agreed. If we are going to spend this summer then we can only realistically sell players who have a market value considerably higher than there accounting book value. That would beI don't think it is realistic to do a huge fire sale with FFP.
The club benefits most from the sale of homegrown players, or those who's amortization period is over - i.e. off their initial contracts.
For that reason, I would be looking to shift Rashford, Lindelof and McTominay. If there are decent offers for AWB, Casemiro, Varane, Shaw and Maguire, they should be sold. Past their best and taking up a lot of space on the wage bill.
The issue will be trying to replace this number of players.
Rashford MV 80m BV 0m Profit 80m
Bruno MV 65m BV 15m Profit 50m
Don't think we'd get decent offers for any other players due to high wages and poor performances. Perhaps 30m for the likes of Shaw and McTominay.
daba
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Not sure how / cba to work out the actual book value of players, but all of the below are other players that should yield at least a small profit:Agreed. If we are going to spend this summer then we can only realistically sell players who have a market value considerably higher than there accounting book value. That would be
Rashford MV 80m BV 0m Profit 80m
Bruno MV 65m BV 15m Profit 50m
Don't think we'd get decent offers for any other players due to high wages and poor performances. Perhaps 30m for the likes of Shaw and McTominay.
McTominay
Greenwood
Lindelof
AWB
Casemiro
Hannibal
Alvaro
Pellistri
More difficult ones are probably:
Maguire
Sancho
Antony
With those more difficult ones, we should either loan them out or cut our losses and sell for a negative, provided we make up for it by selling the likes of McT, Greenwood etc we should be alright.
Red in STL
Turnover not takeover
So you think United should negotiate, with who exactly?Fine. So he’s for sale.
I didn’t say he would negotiate (and I don’t care what he wants), just that we should.
SecondFig
Full Member
Add Bruno and that'd pretty much be mine. I'd probably not include Dalot though, not because I don't think we should keep him, but I wouldn't call him untouchableMy list:
Hojlund- promising striker prospect perhaps coming into his own recently. Far too much potential to ditch after 1 year though especially with how dry the market is
Garnacho- obvious choice. Has carried our attack at times this season as a teenager.
Mainoo- Again another obvious choice. Build the entire midfield around him.
Shaw - Getting up there in age but it's very hard to find fullbacks as complete as he is when fit.
Martinez- the injury issues give me pause, but he's far too good when fit.
Dalot- Not very well liked by the Cafe but he has a very solid skillset and is quietly having his best season so far with the club.
Valencia Shin Crosses
Full Member
I think Dalot is far more important to the future of the club at this point than BrunoAdd Bruno and that'd pretty much be mine. I'd probably not include Dalot though, not because I don't think we should keep him, but I wouldn't call him untouchable
Waynne
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Keep:
McTominay
Rashford
Martial
Bruno
Maguire
Lindelof
Antony
Amrabat
Casemiro
Get Rid:
Hojlund
Licha
Onana
Evans
Garnacho
Mainoo
Dalot
Shaw
Garner
McTominay
Rashford
Martial
Bruno
Maguire
Lindelof
Antony
Amrabat
Casemiro
Get Rid:
Hojlund
Licha
Onana
Evans
Garnacho
Mainoo
Dalot
Shaw
Garner
Remember the geese
Full Member
Agree on all, but Garner. He should be kept. LolKeep:
McTominay
Rashford
Martial
Bruno
Maguire
Lindelof
Antony
Amrabat
Casemiro
Get Rid:
Hojlund
Licha
Onana
Evans
Garnacho
Mainoo
Dalot
Shaw
Garner
mav_9me
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Very few untouchables for me. Martinez, mainoo, Hojlund, Garnacho.
Players I'd like to keep: dalot, Shaw, Mount.
Players I'd like to keep: dalot, Shaw, Mount.
Ali Dia
Full Member
Keep Rashford
Sell everyone else
Sell everyone else
Ali Dia
Full Member
this is a wild list man! I like it!Keep:
McTominay
Rashford
Martial
Bruno
Maguire
Lindelof
Antony
Amrabat
Casemiro
Get Rid:
Hojlund
Licha
Onana
Evans
Garnacho
Mainoo
Dalot
Shaw
Garner
bringbackbebe
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I also feel Elanga, Lingard, Pogba and Tuanzebe have a great future. Should be kept.Agree on all, but Garner. He should be kept. Lol
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Won't happen but in that scenario
Mainoo
Martinez
Hojlund
All the others can be sold for the right price.
Mainoo
Martinez
Hojlund
All the others can be sold for the right price.
BeforeKeanetherewasRobson
Full Member
With Rashford and his agent. Obviously. Who else?So you think United should negotiate, with who exactly?
I think the club should try to renegotiate deals (should try). If players don’t want to, fine, they have a contract. So I then think the club should try to sell them (should try).
It’s a simple concept (and one Berrada has demonstrated before). Just because something might not work, doesn’t mean we don’t try it
saivet
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Just these players for me should be untouchable: Hojlund, Mainoo, Shaw, Martinez and Dalot. There are a few players I wouldn't actively sell but if a good offer came in for the likes of Varane, Casemiro, Garnacho, Onana, Mount and Amad (under a new manager) I'd consider them.
Waynne
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Fear is the mind killerthis is a wild list man! I like it!
gaffs
Full Member
And why would a player on a 5 year contract take a salary cut?Not that I’m arsed if he goes personally but if he stays, club should be renegotiating.
Offer him a much reduced wage… as I wish we’d done with De Gea (and not spent that £50m)
gaffs
Full Member
I didn't say we don't need to have a fire sale.What’s funny is that you start this off with we don’t need to do a huge fire sale and then proceed to list 8 players that we should look to sell, whilst missing off some of the more absolute departures in Sancho, Greenwood, Martial, DVB, maybe also Alvaro, Hannibal, Evans if we don’t extend, maybe Amad if ETH stays.
A fire sale is absolutely needed because we’re in a shocking position with a squad full of players not suited to dominate games of football in this modern era (eg. Our assortment of slow, passive CBs who aren’t great on the ball). We also have players OOC probably leaving for free this summer and players with only a year left that we either sell now, extend to protect their value (a la Woodward) and continue down this hole we are in or lose them for nothing in a year which won’t help FFP. We also have problem players like Sancho and Greenwood that will leave.
All in all, I don’t see how we avoid a firesale given our current predicament. I also don’t think replacing these players should be that difficult. We just need to be wise and make smart investments with young players in the £25-50m category, rather than the £60-80m category (eg. Todibo instead of Antonio Silva, Lucumi instead of Branthwaite), whilst picking up a free signing or two (eg. Doughty from Luton as LB cover).
I think we’ve been scarred by incompetency under the previous regime, thinking that it’s impossible to sign more than 4 players in a summer or sell any of our players full stop. I’m confident this will be completely different under Jim.
I said it wasn't realistic due to FFP.
Lets say you bring in 5 players on 5 year contracts, you are carrying both salary and amortized transfer fee over the 5 years of the contract - that is a double FFP hit. It is why the club prefer to keep extending existing players as there is a much lower cap hit.
A fire sale wont work because there are enough enough sellable assets to balance the books. Even if you sell Casemiro for 30mil, we get his wages off the books, but we are still carrying 3 more years of his 60mil transfer fee.
gaffs
Full Member
Agree. Im glad someone understands how this works.Agreed. If we are going to spend this summer then we can only realistically sell players who have a market value considerably higher than there accounting book value. That would be
Rashford MV 80m BV 0m Profit 80m
Bruno MV 65m BV 15m Profit 50m
Don't think we'd get decent offers for any other players due to high wages and poor performances. Perhaps 30m for the likes of Shaw and McTominay.
You could add McTominay to that list too.
Im not sure if we would get 80mil for Rashford. Salary too high and it would seem PSG are the only suiters. Just a hunch, but i think PSG will buy Khvicha Kvaratskhelia.
If the club really want room to rip it up and start again, they have to make sure really tough decisions and maybe let someone like Garnacho go.
For me, it's these guys too, plus Bruno. Wouldn't consider anyone else to be untouchable however there are some that I'd like to keep a little longer, even if it's out on loan somewhere, like Amad and Pellistri.Hojlund- promising striker prospect perhaps coming into his own recently. Far too much potential to ditch after 1 year though especially with how dry the market is
Garnacho- obvious choice. Has carried our attack at times this season as a teenager.
Mainoo- Again another obvious choice. Build the entire midfield around him.
Shaw - Getting up there in age but it's very hard to find fullbacks as complete as he is when fit.
Martinez- the injury issues give me pause, but he's far too good when fit.
Dalot- Not very well liked by the Cafe but he has a very solid skillset and is quietly having his best season so far with the club.
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I feel there's a big difference between their injuries. Martinez has had 2 bad injuries. His metatarsal injury was poorly handled by the club, which resulted in him missing more games than he should have. When he finally returned, he had a player fall directly on his knee, which put him out for another long period. Fingers crossed that'll be the end of his bad luck.The same accusation could be levelled at Martinez, this is his 2nd season, he must have missed around 40 games now through injury. Great player and been unlucky but that's a lot of missed games.
On the other hand, Shaw misses games every season with muscle injuries. He walked off the pitch unaided against Luton, then we were told he's going to miss the rest of the season with yet another muscle injury. Unfortunately, he's the Martial of our defenders.
Any idea of Martinez's injury record at Ajax? Because in his three season at Ajax he made 24,26 & 24 appearances respectively in the Eredivisie. That's a lot of missed games for a central defender, who usually aren't rotated a lot.The same accusation could be levelled at Martinez, this is his 2nd season, he must have missed around 40 games now through injury. Great player and been unlucky but that's a lot of missed games.
Zed 101
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INJURY HISTORYAny idea of Martinez's injury record at Ajax? Because in his three season at Ajax he made 24,26 & 24 appearances respectively in the Eredivisie. That's a lot of missed games for a central defender, who usually aren't rotated a lot.
| Season | Injury | from | until | Days | Games missed |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 23/24 | Knee injury | Feb 4, 2024 | Mar 31, 2024 | 56 days | 10 |
| 23/24 | Foot injury | Sep 21, 2023 | Jan 4, 2024 | 105 days | 22 |
| 22/23 | Metatarsal fracture | Apr 14, 2023 | Jun 30, 2023 | 77 days | 12 |
| 21/22 | Muscle injury | Mar 21, 2022 | May 22, 2022 | 62 days | 10 |
| 21/22 | unknown injury | Dec 21, 2021 | Dec 31, 2021 | 10 days | 1 |
| 20/21 | Knock | Sep 13, 2020 | Sep 19, 2020 | 6 days | 1 |
| 19/20 | Hamstring injury | Jul 5, 2019 | Jul 25, 2019 | 20 days | 1 |
| Season | Days | Injuries | Games missed |
|---|---|---|---|
| 23/24 | 161 days | 2 | 32 |
| 22/23 | 77 days | 1 | 12 |
| 21/22 | 72 days | 2 | 11 |
| 20/21 | 6 days | 1 | 1 |
| 19/20 | 20 days | 1 | 1 |
elmo
Can never have too many Eevees
Huddlestone is a player-coach for the under 21s. Not sure why you’re listing him in a bunch of first team players to remove.Untouchable - Garnacho, Mainoo, Hojlund.
Take or leave (partly due to injury/lack of reliability) - Martinez, Bruno, AWB, Erikson, Bayindir, Heaton, Evans, Amad
Should go - Rashford, Anthony, Sancho, McTominay, Onana, Varane, Amrabat, Shaw, Maguire, Lindelof, Malacia, Martial, VanDeBeek, Williams, Dalot, Casemiro, Huddlestone(!), Mount, Number 11.
Entire medical staff, entire physio staff, set piece coach, throw in coach, PR Team, social media team... probably left a few out but it's a start!
I'd get rid of Ten Hag too but the thought of Potter being Utd manager makes me.physically ill. The English Moyes. Southgate 2.0. A disaster in waiting.
The reality is we're stuck with underperforming, huge waged egos for the foreseeable.
onemanarmy
Full Member
There are only 34 games in the Eredivisie to begin with.Any idea of Martinez's injury record at Ajax? Because in his three season at Ajax he made 24,26 & 24 appearances respectively in the Eredivisie. That's a lot of missed games for a central defender, who usually aren't rotated a lot.
First season it was the Covid season, last game was played beginning of March. He played all games bar 1.
Second season, he was benched for a game or 4-5 in a row. He didn't miss a single game because of injury.
Last season he played there, he missed 7 games in a row because of a muscle injury.
zenith
Full Member
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- 1,787
Only mainoo, garnacho, Dalot, Rasmus and Martinez as untouchable.
Rest everyone should be deemed dispensable, if we plan to build for the future
Rest everyone should be deemed dispensable, if we plan to build for the future
P-Nut
fan of well-known French footballer Fabinho
Missing out on Europe altogether could be a blessing in disguise with regards to squad management.
We'd be able to go into next season with a much smaller squad, and players are less likely to hang around if they know there are less games for rotation.
We've got an absolutely humongous squad at the moment, so being able to cut that down would provide some much needed funds, and mean that the money could be better allocated to better players rather than having 30 something first teamers of nowhere near the quality required.
We'd be able to go into next season with a much smaller squad, and players are less likely to hang around if they know there are less games for rotation.
We've got an absolutely humongous squad at the moment, so being able to cut that down would provide some much needed funds, and mean that the money could be better allocated to better players rather than having 30 something first teamers of nowhere near the quality required.
Ikon
Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018
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Untouchables?
Absolutely nobody, not one.
Although younger players should obviously be given a bit of leeway here, and I'm sure we'd all love to see Garnacho, Mainoo & Hoijlund hit the heights.
Absolutely nobody, not one.
Although younger players should obviously be given a bit of leeway here, and I'm sure we'd all love to see Garnacho, Mainoo & Hoijlund hit the heights.
P-Nut
fan of well-known French footballer Fabinho
Just thought I'd check our squad to see the joke of it in full...
GK
Onana, Bayindir, Heaton
DEFENCE
Dalot, Varane, Martinez, Shaw, Lindelof, Maguire, Malacia, AWB, Williams, Evans, Fernandez, Kambwala
MIDFIELD
Casemiro, Mainoo, Fernandes, Mount, Eriksen, DvB, McTominay, Gore, Hannibal (Amrabat on loan)
WINGERS
Rashford, Garnacho, Amad, Forson, Pellistri, Sancho, Antony, Shoretire
STRIKERS
Hojlund, Martial
Bolded the ones that I think everyone is in agreement about not being here next year. Still leaves you with a 25 man squad without any reinforcements coming in. In an ideal world you'd probably want to cut that by a further 5 by adding the likes of Antony, Lindelof, McTominay and bringing in 5 starting 11 players, but selling 12 and releasing 3 players seems like fifa/fm level of fire sale.
GK
Onana, Bayindir, Heaton
DEFENCE
Dalot, Varane, Martinez, Shaw, Lindelof, Maguire, Malacia, AWB, Williams, Evans, Fernandez, Kambwala
MIDFIELD
Casemiro, Mainoo, Fernandes, Mount, Eriksen, DvB, McTominay, Gore, Hannibal (Amrabat on loan)
WINGERS
Rashford, Garnacho, Amad, Forson, Pellistri, Sancho, Antony, Shoretire
STRIKERS
Hojlund, Martial
Bolded the ones that I think everyone is in agreement about not being here next year. Still leaves you with a 25 man squad without any reinforcements coming in. In an ideal world you'd probably want to cut that by a further 5 by adding the likes of Antony, Lindelof, McTominay and bringing in 5 starting 11 players, but selling 12 and releasing 3 players seems like fifa/fm level of fire sale.
Red00012
Full Member
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- Jan 18, 2018
- Messages
- 12,229
You’re just too funny on here maybe you just do stand upKeep:
McTominay
Rashford
Martial
Bruno
Maguire
Lindelof
Antony
Amrabat
Casemiro
Get Rid:
Hojlund
Licha
Onana
Evans
Garnacho
Mainoo
Dalot
Shaw
Garner
Cheers!There are only 34 games in the Eredivisie to begin with.
First season it was the Covid season, last game was played beginning of March. He played all games bar 1.
Second season, he was benched for a game or 4-5 in a row. He didn't miss a single game because of injury.
Last season he played there, he missed 7 games in a row because of a muscle injury.
Thanks, bud!INJURY HISTORY
TOTAL
Season Injury from until Days Games missed 23/24 Knee injury Feb 4, 2024 Mar 31, 2024 56 days 10 23/24 Foot injury Sep 21, 2023 Jan 4, 2024 105 days 22 22/23 Metatarsal fracture Apr 14, 2023 Jun 30, 2023 77 days 12 21/22 Muscle injury Mar 21, 2022 May 22, 2022 62 days 10 21/22 unknown injury Dec 21, 2021 Dec 31, 2021 10 days 1 20/21 Knock Sep 13, 2020 Sep 19, 2020 6 days 1 19/20 Hamstring injury Jul 5, 2019 Jul 25, 2019 20 days 1
Season Days Injuries Games missed 23/24 161 days 2 32 22/23 77 days 1 12 21/22 72 days 2 11 20/21 6 days 1 1 19/20 20 days 1 1
Offsideagain
Full Member
With Ineos, nobody is untouchable. I suggested a while back that SJR will introduce a new wage structure which will include incentive payments. This will be on a take it or leave basis to encourage some of them to run around a bit more. They have a motto at Ineos, FIFO. Fit In or F*** Off. This works in the Chemical business but maybe not in the rarified world of spoilt professional footballers and their agents. We'll see. My view on who to keep are similar to most. I love watching Martinez playing, but if you're injured for half a season what's the point? He is just another example of the piss poor recruitment by ETH and the former board. I would certainly be looking to promote some youngsters too. Rashford can go and boost the transfer kitty.
iKeano
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Standards.Huddlestone is a player-coach for the under 21s. Not sure why you’re listing him in a bunch of first team players to remove.
Adamsk7
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- Aug 17, 2014
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- 2,706
Hojlund
Martinez
Mainoo
Anyone else is expendable
Martinez
Mainoo
Anyone else is expendable
Carl
has permanently erect nipples
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- 45,373
Surprised to see Shaw making so many lists. Has been a regular fixture for years under various managers. Blows hot and cold too frequently, and picks up too many injuries.
When he's fit and on form he's one of the best left backs in the world. We don't see it often enough though.
When he's fit and on form he's one of the best left backs in the world. We don't see it often enough though.
Rossa
Full Member
I can’t understand the mentions of Shaw either. Great at his best, but his best is not nearly often enough, and seeing he is our first choice lb, his injuries are massive concern.Surprised to see Shaw making so many lists. Has been a regular fixture for years under various managers. Blows hot and cold too frequently, and picks up too many injuries.
When he's fit and on form he's one of the best left backs in the world. We don't see it often enough though.
Cutch
Full Member
I think Shaw's minutes need to be managed a bit better. No rushing him back from injury or playing him constantly until he breaks down which has both happened this season. Last season he apparently only missed 3 games through injury when we could rotate him with Malacia.
I'd think of him as much as a centre half these days. If Martinez isn't playing I'd want him coming in for him to give us similar ball playing ability out, so we're not completely changing our style like this season when Maguire, Evans or Lindelof comes in instead. Also might protect him from injuries with less running. Id therefore sign a top young left back and have Shaw rotating for both him and for Martinez.
I'd think of him as much as a centre half these days. If Martinez isn't playing I'd want him coming in for him to give us similar ball playing ability out, so we're not completely changing our style like this season when Maguire, Evans or Lindelof comes in instead. Also might protect him from injuries with less running. Id therefore sign a top young left back and have Shaw rotating for both him and for Martinez.