Are all-round midfielders back in fashion?

Brightonian

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...or were reports of their demise greatly exaggerated?

Gareth Southgate has the pleasant responsibility of picking a central midfield from a pool containing:

Declan Rice
Jude Bellingham
Conor Gallagher
Kobbie Mainoo
and alleged footballer Jordan Henderson.

All have played at times at the base of midfield, at times in more advanced positions scoring goals, and most of all as so-called #8s, box-to-box. All are arguably best used by giving them free rein to do all the midfield things at once.

Is this a wider trend in football? If so, will it at some point be reflected in a move away from formations that require more specialised DMs and AMs, towards formations that allow midfielders to move more freely. Might we even see 442 come back into fashion?
 

amolbhatia50k

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Don’t see how they’re more “all round” than their predecessors. Bellingham is more AM / SS than a midfielder. He should be compared to KDB and co

How complete did we think Xavi, Modric. Schweinsteiger, were? And would any of the teams these players play for have Busquets at his peak on the bench?
 

André Dominguez

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They never went out of fashion, but there is a difference between an all-round midfielder that performs average in every position he plays, and the rare ones that will excel in basically any position you place him.
 

Brightonian

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amolbhatia50k said:
Don’t see how they’re more “all round” than their predecessors. Bellingham is more AM / SS than a midfielder. He should be compared to KDB and co

How complete did we think Xavi, Modric. Schweinsteiger, were? And would any of the teams these players play for have Busquets at his peak on the bench?
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That's how Ancelotti plays him, and was always likely to because he needed another source of goals. But at Dortmund he was a #8 and even part of a double-pivot under Terzic for a while. And excelled in both roles.
 

tenpoless

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Since Hazard (and Sneijder before that) none of them are truly all-round anymore.
 

amolbhatia50k

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Brightonian said:
That's how Ancelotti plays him, and was always likely to because he needed another source of goals. But at Dortmund he was a #8 and even part of a double-pivot under Terzic for a while. And excelled in both roles.
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Which era then lacked these all round midfielders? Feels a very Barcelona under Pep centric argument . A lot of players who may have played in a specific system would also work if used in a different manner.
 

MegadrivePerson

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Yes.

I don't think you can really make it at the very top level now as a midfielder if you can't do a bit of everything. I'd say it goes even further than that and all players on the pitch are expected to be all rounders. In an era where most teams want to play out from the back, even goalkeepers and defenders need to be good on the ball.
 

tomaldinho1

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Are the examples good all rounders? I think Bellingham could legitimately play DM, CM and AM but can the others?

All rounders would be players in Pool's old midfield setup like Wijnaldum or Can, I'd say Mount is another, players who can do everything without being elite at anything. You can even stick them wide and they'll be ok.
 

Plant0x84

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Brightonian said:
...or were reports of their demise greatly exaggerated?

Gareth Southgate has the pleasant responsibility of picking a central midfield from a pool containing:

Declan Rice
Jude Bellingham
Conor Gallagher
Kobbie Mainoo
and alleged footballer Jordan Henderson.

All have played at times at the base of midfield, at times in more advanced positions scoring goals, and most of all as so-called #8s, box-to-box. All are arguably best used by giving them free rein to do all the midfield things at once.

Is this a wider trend in football? If so, will it at some point be reflected in a move away from formations that require more specialised DMs and AMs, towards formations that allow midfielders to move more freely. Might we even see 442 come back into fashion?
Click to expand...
Declan, Jude and Kobbie sounds like a filthy midfield! :drool:
 

Brightonian

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VP89 said:
It does, but I bet it'll be Declan, Jude, Connor
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I don't think we should be so disappointed about that. Overplaying an 18/19 year old is a bad idea. Kobbie's got time. And maybe being rushed into a Euros is not as good an intro to international football than spending a full two years embedding with the side then going to a World Cup where on paper we should be a serious contender (perhaps by then we will have a more ambitious manager).

I really like Gallagher, and outside of Chelsea (and maybe Palace) fans he's quite underrated. But if Mainoo fulfils anything like his full potential he'll be the better player pretty quickly.
 

Brightonian

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tomaldinho1 said:
Are the examples good all rounders? I think Bellingham could legitimately play DM, CM and AM but can the others?

All rounders would be players in Pool's old midfield setup like Wijnaldum or Can, I'd say Mount is another, players who can do everything without being elite at anything. You can even stick them wide and they'll be ok.
Click to expand...
I'm talking about midfielders whose best way of playing might be to be in a set-up where they do everything in midfield. If they're all right players, like Wijnaldum, then they'll probably be all right at doing it. If they're world class players, like Keane, then they'll be world-class at it.

As I said in the OP, all the others have played #6, #8 and #10, and you can find games where they have done so and got praise. Where there's the option, most of them have also been complimented for the fact they do a bit of everything.
However because most midfields these days clearly divide the different roles between the players, each of them is currently being played in a more limited position (Bellingham very AM, for example). The exception here is maybe Rice, who does now seem to have been given a more roaming role that suits him. He tackles and shields alongside Jorginho but you also see him popping up with pretty regular goals, assists and shots on goal.
 

stefan92

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tomaldinho1 said:
Are the examples good all rounders? I think Bellingham could legitimately play DM, CM and AM but can the others?

All rounders would be players in Pool's old midfield setup like Wijnaldum or Can, I'd say Mount is another, players who can do everything without being elite at anything. You can even stick them wide and they'll be ok.
Click to expand...
Bellingham isn't a very good DM I think. He isn't really one who provides the structure to a team, that doesn't suit him. Using his energy and mobility is much more useful in CM/AM positions where someone else can cover his movement, but he isn't the one to do that on his own.
 

tomaldinho1

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stefan92 said:
Bellingham isn't a very good DM I think. He isn't really one who provides the structure to a team, that doesn't suit him. Using his energy and mobility is much more useful in CM/AM positions where someone else can cover his movement, but he isn't the one to do that on his own.
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Yeah I don’t think he could play a Rodri like role but he would be good at the role we thought Fred would do for us, the ball carrying CM in a double pivot. He’d probably be about the level of Phillips when he was at Leeds as a lone DM (by no means bad).
 

DWelbz19

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Even at Dortmund it seemed like Bellingham’s best role would be furthest forward in the midfield. Quite a few of us said it at the time in his thread on the forum too.

Gallagher and Henderson more just excel at nothing specifically, so I guess that makes them all-rounders(?)
 

Scandi Red

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Much like big asses they never go out of fashion. They just have long periods of silent appreciation from cultured people such as myself. And then someone drops Anaconda and ruin the whole thing, forcing the cultured to move on to feet instead.
 

DWelbz19

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Scandi Red said:
Much like big asses they never go out of fashion. They just have long periods of silent appreciation from cultured people such as myself. And then someone drops Anaconda and ruin the whole thing, forcing the cultured to move on to feet instead.
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Reported for being into feet
 

giorno

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DWelbz19 said:
Even at Dortmund it seemed like Bellingham’s best role would be furthest forward in the midfield. Quite a few of us said it at the time in his thread on the forum too.
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Yep. There's probably posts of mine dating back to 2020 talking about how Bellingham would obviously develop as a pure attacking midfielder
 

RG77

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giorno said:
Cross Jude out
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Fede is right there but gets overlooked. He literally played all three of those positions, this season alone. And RW in previous seasons. Even RB once or twice.

But those players are incredibly rare.
 

tomaldinho1

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Brightonian said:
I'm talking about midfielders whose best way of playing might be to be in a set-up where they do everything in midfield. If they're all right players, like Wijnaldum, then they'll probably be all right at doing it. If they're world class players, like Keane, then they'll be world-class at it.

As I said in the OP, all the others have played #6, #8 and #10, and you can find games where they have done so and got praise. Where there's the option, most of them have also been complimented for the fact they do a bit of everything.
However because most midfields these days clearly divide the different roles between the players, each of them is currently being played in a more limited position (Bellingham very AM, for example). The exception here is maybe Rice, who does now seem to have been given a more roaming role that suits him. He tackles and shields alongside Jorginho but you also see him popping up with pretty regular goals, assists and shots on goal.
Click to expand...
In that case it's true for the DM role if you look at how it's evolved. You don't really see a copy cat Busquets role now because no one plays tiki taka and you need the overload in the CMs of the DM coming up, so you have the next progression of that in very physically fit DMs (Rice/Rodri) who cover huge amounts of ground, are still good technically and sit as a pivot at the base of the midfield but have a lot more offensive responsibilities. Busquets scored less than 20 goals in over 700 apps for Barca, Rodri already has more than him and Rice is averaging a goal every 4.5 games with Arsenal. Different roles and responsibilities.

That's not to say either is better than him, Busquets is probably my No1 of all time, but just how football has/is changing.
 

Borys

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Maybe it feels that way because not so many DLP/classic #10s in modern game? If you can get a Rodri/Busquets level of player to perform the DM and connector role, then you build the team around them easily, whether with #8s or #10s. Otherwise you need very competent, all-round #8s.
 
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