Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

4bars

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That_Bloke said:
Does it? I've must been intoxicated by my own brainfarts and got sidetracked then.

Aside from getting one over the US you previously mentioned "posturing and preening on the world stage being exclusive to the US" which is factually wrong. Russia and China (and many other countries) do the very same thing. They truly are up to something, which is feck the US over at every chance they get. Just like the US does. They also love gaslighting, just like the US does.

It's not so much about the validity of their reasons to veto the resolution as to why they really vetoed it. Palestine just comes in handy at the moment. It could've been anything.

I hold the utmost contempt about US foreign policy. I personally think that the US has been a blight on this planet since the end of WWII and call for a multipolar world where every superpower is kept in check by other ones. But let's not kid ourselves and think that Russia or China are suddenly okay just because they happen to have a stance that coincidentally aligns with your view of the Israel-Palestine conflict.


That's why they didn't lift so much of a pinkie in the past five decades and only opened their mouth in the last months.

There's no such thing as fairness in international matters, especially when it involves major powers deciding the fate of plebs. You can bet your ass that if voting for the resolution would serve Russia's or China's interests, they'd have done it.

That will sell in the US and some parts of the Western world, which is the point. They are all baddies.
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Oh, I agree that they are all baddies. But in this instance, the Israel - Palestine conflict the baddy is US. Bringing China and Russia as a baddy to vote against a shitty resolution is whataboutism to deflect blame

China and Russia are none actors in this conflict and they are spectators eating popcorn seeing how US is destroying its reputation alone. Then they will fill the space that US is leaving in the region without an effort
 

That_Bloke

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Demyanenko_square_jaw said:
Has there been any recent update on the status of the tunnel network? Considering how big a deal was made of it by the Israeli government as being the key to defeating Hamas and one of the big reasons there would likely be "unavoidable collateral damage," I would have thought that the IDF would have wanted to announce regularly any substantial gains there...regions taken/destroyed, command centres found, Hamas being penned into certain areas etc...Maybe I've just not been reading the right articles/accounts, but there doesn't seem to have been much at all for a long time. Vital need for operational secrecy? Personally, I suspect they just realised quite early on that they weren't going to need to justify wide-scale, surface destruction and civilian casualties too much with the "but the entrances to the tunnels and Hamas soldiers were in the basement of the housing block" stuff. Any focused military campaign on the network has long become a distant secondary objective to the collective punishment on the surface.
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They are where Israel deems them to be fit. That means hospitals, mosques, churches, schools, universities, banks, cemetaries, (future) beachfront properties, journalists or UNRWA workers houses, or even behind a child's puppet. The list isn't exhaustive.

The reality is that the IDF is scared shitless of going in and frankly never had any real interest in doing so. You can bet your house if they found a major tunnel/Hamas underground command center, they'd be thrumpetting it ad nauseam. Hell, they even staged showed how Hamas militants have been operating from a tunnel beneath Al-Shifa hospital, proof being the five AK-47s placed hidden behind the MRT-Scanner.

After nearly six months, there's been next to nothing to be heard about the tunnels, unless it was an excuse to destroy a vital civilian infrastructure. No one with more than two brain cells believes in it and normal people already forgot that that there's about 500 km of these tunnels.
 
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the_cliff

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RedDevilQuebecois said:
If there was any supporting argument against torching the United Nations, as a body, down to the ground before today, it just vanished today.



The Russians and the Chinese already shot themselves in the face a long time ago. I'm not even talking about how much of a joke whatever "aid" they send is.
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Here's the thing bro. Usually when I post I give the general outlook of what the actual people in the Middle East and Arabs are thinking and what I see from the general consensus and in the media (Middle Eastern) media. My father is from the Middle East and I live between the Middle East and Manchester. Right now even US allies in the Middle East are openly questioning the US and their openly hypocritical views/bias in the media on the issue and it's something I've never seen before. Russia and China sense this and are trying to gain favour. Whether they're good or bad isn't the issue here. The issue is with the US backing Israel over every single other key ally in the Middle East that they've built relationships with over the years they will end up alienating them. The longer this goes on the more chance Russia and China will get a hold.
 

Idxomer

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Not sure what was wrong with the tweet before but that was it.
 

Idxomer

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The IOF always increases their depravity around the same time as one of the US circuses diplomatically.
 

Idxomer

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19 starving Palestinians have been killed by the IOF while receiving aid today.
 

Idxomer

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Torching homes with people inside has been happening for a few days now.
 

frostbite

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Hamas says that there is no Hamas inside the hospital but there is Hamas around the hospital!

How can any logical person believe this? Why would Hamas have gunmen OUTSIDE the hospital, if there have none of their people INSIDE the hospital? Makes no sense whatsoever!


https://www.reuters.com/world/middl...-gaza-gunmen-killed-hospital-raid-2024-03-23/


CAIRO/GAZA, March 23 (Reuters) - Fighting raged on Saturday around Gaza's main hospital where Israel says it has so far killed more than 170 gunmen in an extensive raid, which the Palestinian Health Ministry says has also resulted in the deaths of five patients.

The armed wing of Hamas and the Islamic Jihad said their fighters were engaged in battles with the Israeli forces outside and around the vicinity of Al Shifa hospital in Gaza City. Hamas denies any presence inside the facility.
 

Idxomer

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https://theintercept.com/2024/03/23/intercepted-doctor-gaza-interview/

“MAN-MADE HELL ON EARTH”: A CANADIAN DOCTOR ON HIS MEDICAL MISSION TO GAZA

I had one girl who basically lost all her siblings, 8-year-old beautiful girl, lost her siblings. She came in for a leg fracture, was under the rubble for 12 hours. And her mother died, all her siblings gone. And all her family [were] gone, her aunts and uncles. As you know, it’s a generational killing, like slaughter. Generations. There’s about 2,000 families that have been erased now completely, are gone. Nonexistent. So it’s generational trauma or death or slaughter, and so her father was out burying his wife and his killed children while she was by herself getting her leg fracture repaired. And while she was under there for 12 hours, this 8-year-old girl, next to her was her grandmother and her aunt, dead, lying next to her for 12 hours.

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It’s a well-known fact that the Israeli forces are experimenting [with] weapons in Gaza to boost their weapon manufacturing industry. Because if a weapon is battle-tested, it’s more valuable, isn’t it? It’s got a higher value. So basically they’re using these weapons, these missiles that purposely, intently create these large shrapnel fragments that go everywhere. And they cause amputations that are unusual.
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So the injuries I saw were — I mean, I saw people with their eyes blown apart. And when I was there, and this is my experience, I treated all children when I was there the first time. It was kids that [were aged] 2, 6, 9, 10, 13, 15, and 16, and 17 were the ones that I treated. And their eyes unfortunately had to be removed. They had shrapnel in their eye sockets that I had to remove and, of course, remove the eye. There’s many patients, many children who had shrapnel in both their eyes. And you can only do so much because right now, because of the aid blockade and because of the destruction of most of Gaza, there’s no equipment available to take shrapnel that’s in the eye out. And so we just leave them alone and they eventually go blind.
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VorZakone

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Hasbara means being too busy with coming up for excuses for #Israel instead of asking why it's been getting so many things wrong.
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ManUtd1999

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For how long will Biden wait before saying ENOUGH?!

What does Biden want to achieve with this approach? He’s the only person who can end this insanity, and he doesn’t really try. I never expected him to be this stone-hearted.
 
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langster

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ManUtd1999 said:
For how long will Biden wait before saying ENOUGH?!

What does Biden want to achieve with this approach? He’s the only person who can end this insanity, and he doesn’t really try. I never expected him to be this stone-hearted.
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I felt and thought the same but if you go back in this thread where I posted similar you will see why I (we) are wrong. It's sad reading but Biden has and always will be on Israel's side. Coupled with comments made in the past it really does seem as he's more than happy for Israel to rid the area of Palestinians. The only reason he's speaking out is due to political pressure and wanting to stop losing votes in the upcoming election.
 

langster

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VorZakone said:
Crazy...

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More like absolutely fecking disgusting. They really are going to wipe the Palestinians out while the world watches on, aren't they? I mean they have been slowly doing that for years anyway, it's just now it's there for all to see and on an unprecedented scale.

But yeah, defund UNRWA or something.....
 

ManUtd1999

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langster said:
I felt and thought the same but if you go back in this thread where I posted similar you will see why I (we) are wrong. It's sad reading but Biden has and always will be on Israel's side. Coupled with comments made in the past it really does seem as he's more than happy for Israel to rid the area of Palestinians. The only reason he's speaking out is due to political pressure and wanting to stop losing votes in the upcoming election.
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That’s probably true. Arab/Muslim lives don’t matter. BLM, yes (and rightly so). ALM/MLM: not really.

I will vote for him— mainly because of Trump. Biden did well overall, until October 7. Since then he has been terrible.
 

Kaos

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VorZakone said:
Crazy...

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They've been doing this for decades.

All this hyperbolic talk about Israel fighting an existential war against Hamas, its the Palestinians facing an existential threat with Israel squeezing them out to the sea or the Sinai desert, and have been since the Nakba.
 

Amir

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4bars said:
@Amir , @Giggsy PO, @gfactor86

What is your opinion on that?
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That the extreme right is controlling the govenment because Netanyahu is bowing to them as he needs them in order to remain as PM, which is the most important thing for him. They are loving it, and enjoy sticking fingers into the eyes of everyone. They don't care about the consequences. They'd love for the middle east to burn.
 
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