Nordic Ghost Yeti | Haaland at City

hasanejaz88 said:

That's not true. He was scoring consistently against Bayern for Dortmund, 5 goals in 7 games. Similarly he had an incredible record in the UCL for them, goals against Napoli, Sevilla and PSG while against Bayern for City.

He's come up with goals against the bigger teams in England as well (20 in 32 matches v Bayern, Chelsea, Liverpool, United, Arsenal and Spurs). Is his record against them as good as it is against other teams? Ofcourse not, but then name me one striker who has a better record against the top teams versus everyone else. From Aguero I see he had 54 goals in 98 matches v the same clubs minus Bayern.

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His record in Germany isn't overly relevant in my opinion. Plenty of players have performed in Germany and struggled in England, which is generally a stronger league.

Also, he filled his boots against a poor Man Utd and Chelsea side so his goal record against bigger sides can be considered somewhat skewed. I'm pretty sure he is yet to score in a semi-final or final for a team that has won the treble .

I don't think it is unfair to point out he has definitely been less effective in the bigger moments and games for Man City. He is a phenomenal goalscorer but it is an aspect of his game, at least right now, that is worth discussing.

Maluco said:

I agree, football can change very quickly! But in both those cases, the players improved very quickly with game time at the top level. Haaland has had several seasons of top level football now and there is no sign that he could develop those aspects of his game.

It could happen, of course, but his career, in terms of minutes at the top table, is far more advanced than Drogba or Henry at the same age.

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As far as I'm aware, this is the first 'real' adversity of his entire career? The first time where he looks 'normal', that is to say, not like some kind of prototype from the future. How much of that is down to injuries and growing pains compared to being "found out", I cannot say, but this is the first season he has been looked upon as truly fallible as opposed to someone who hasn't done so well solely in the biggest games.

If this turns out to be his bottom level, when then, he's assured of being something very special as a goalscorer, if not, and he levels out where he is, then the criticisms and assessments of him will change, but for now, there's really not enough sample size to write him off or mark him down, outside of saying he's not the [goalscoring] messiah, anyway.

I'd just err on the side of caution in terms of absolutes for a 23-year old. Definitive notions of this is all he is and all he ever will be are short-sighted, especially so when his trajectory and standing is above so many who went on to be special with the exact starting point of his age now.

He doesn't look like he'll ever have silken touches and ability, but he can be a couple of rungs down from that and still be devastatingly effective against all and sundry. A big part of greatness is waiting to see how adversity is handled and what the player works on and comes back with. This is a chapter in Haaland's story, but at 23, the book's not even out of the first quarter!

Hammondo said:

Yea their recent attacking buys are just not that impressive for their general football. Less technical and more physical and 1 dimensional.

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Yeah. Doku, Alvarez, Nunes, Kovacic. More physical than technical.

Remains to be seen whether they are more cohesive as an attacking unit next season, or Pep just goes full Pulis. But as of now they are in-between, and their general play is suffering for it. And Haaland is being impacted by that.

Now, it's lazier and easier to say, "Haaland introduced. City worse. Haaland bad striker. Drogba do better".

KiD MoYeS said:

His record in Germany isn't overly relevant in my opinion. Plenty of players have performed in Germany and struggled in England, which is generally a stronger league.

Also, he filled his boots against a poor Man Utd and Chelsea side so his goal record against bigger sides can be considered somewhat skewed. I'm pretty sure he is yet to score in a semi-final or final for a team that has won the treble .

I don't think it is unfair to point out he has definitely been less effective in the bigger moments and games for Man City. He is a phenomenal goalscorer but it is an aspect of his game, at least right now, that is worth discussing.

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I'm talking about Bayern, not any other BL team, are you saying Bayern are weaker than EPL teams?

What I'm saying is every striker will be less effective against better teams, I just pointed out Aguero's weaker goalscoring record against the same teams (if you count assists even then Haaland has a better record I believe), which is over a longer span and therefore would include seasons of those teams having individually poor seasons like United is having this time.

Haaland didn't score against Chelsea in their last match and I'm sure there were similar posts about how he was ineffective in a big game again etc etc, but then if he scores against them it doesn't count because Chelsea aren't doing well this season.

I'm not arguing against him not being less effective against bigger teams, my point is every striker will be to some extent but people will want to jump on Haaland because of his playing style.

hasanejaz88 said:

I'm talking about Bayern, not any other BL team, are you saying Bayern are weaker than EPL teams?

What I'm saying is every striker will be less effective against better teams, I just pointed out Aguero's weaker goalscoring record against the same teams (if you count assists even then Haaland has a better record I believe), which is over a longer span and therefore would include seasons of those teams having individually poor seasons like United is having this time.

Haaland didn't score against Chelsea in their last match and I'm sure there were similar posts about how he was ineffective in a big game again etc etc, but then if he scores against them it doesn't count because Chelsea aren't doing well this season.

I'm not arguing against him not being less effective against bigger teams, my point is every striker will be to some extent but people will want to jump on Haaland because of his playing style.

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Agreed, most players are less likely to be effective in the bigger games against the better opponents but it is what separates the great players from the truly special.
Haaland is undoubtedly a great player, but he is not in the same bracket as some of the top players in the world, in my opinion.
It does feel strange to have a player score so many goals yet divide such opinion, but I think that in itself is an indication of the player and his overall contribution.
Would City be much weaker with Alvarez in their team over Haaland? I'm not so sure. Whereas the truly special players who deliver on the big stage in recent years like De Bruyne, Rodri, and Gundogan have been more important.

The people defending Haaland eg @adexkola . The question is why??

Either you're: a Norwegian, a closet or open City fan, a fan of one of his previous teams or just downright weird. This is a United forum.

adexkola said:

Yeah. Doku, Alvarez, Nunes, Kovacic. More physical than technical.

Remains to be seen whether they are more cohesive as an attacking unit next season, or Pep just goes full Pulis. But as of now they are in-between, and their general play is suffering for it. And Haaland is being impacted by that.

Now, it's lazier and easier to say, "Haaland introduced. City worse. Haaland bad striker. Drogba do better".

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Well I think they will need to change their approach to attack, I don't think the slower building and breaking down their opponent will work, I think they will need to be faster and more direct.

hasanejaz88 said:

I'm talking about Bayern, not any other BL team, are you saying Bayern are weaker than EPL teams?

What I'm saying is every striker will be less effective against better teams, I just pointed out Aguero's weaker goalscoring record against the same teams (if you count assists even then Haaland has a better record I believe), which is over a longer span and therefore would include seasons of those teams having individually poor seasons like United is having this time.

Haaland didn't score against Chelsea in their last match and I'm sure there were similar posts about how he was ineffective in a big game again etc etc, but then if he scores against them it doesn't count because Chelsea aren't doing well this season.

I'm not arguing against him not being less effective against bigger teams, my point is every striker will be to some extent but people will want to jump on Haaland because of his playing style.

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You miss the whole context about Haaland. Below is his embarrassing stats in semi finals & finals for City in the treble winning season.

• 7 games
• 0 goals
• 0 assists
• 7 big chances missed

Mind you his teammates scored 12 goals in these 7 games bailing him out so that some can say he singlehandedly "carried his team" to treble.

hasanejaz88 said:

I'm not arguing against him not being less effective against bigger teams, my point is every striker will be to some extent but people will want to jump on Haaland because of his playing style.

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When he doesn't score, he is almost always a ghost with 6/10 ratings, that's why people talk about him that much. Not only that, sometimes, when he scores a tap-in, he is still a ghost, see his game against United. The guy is a disaster all around play-wise finishing games with 10-20 touches per game. The greatest strikers shine even when they don't score.

It's a crime against football to put his name next to R9, Van Basten as a striker and mentioning his name in the Ballon D'or conversation because of "tap-in" stats.

Roy Keane just said what I and many people here have been saying for so long:
'He's almost like a LEAGUE TWO player'
"The levels of his general play are so poor. And not just today but in general,"

www.talksport.com/football/1809339/roy-keane-erling-haaland-league-two-player/

Alpha 1 said:

The people defending Haaland eg @adexkola . The question is why??

Either you're: a Norwegian, a closet or open City fan, a fan of one of his previous teams or just downright weird. This is a United forum.

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No, the United forum is here actually: https://www.redcafe.net/forums/manchester-united-forum.6/

This is the football forum, where people can discuss issues and topics not specific to United

And it's not about defending Haaland; there are a number of interesting takes here generated by people/bot's preconceived notions of what a striker should be, getting in the way of logical discussion. Or certain types of strikers being beat up by impossible standards failed by every other striker in history bar maybe the 2 freaks of recent times.

I've created a thread about RvN before, because his name nowadays is an epithet for strikers who "only score". So it's not just about Haaland.

heraklion said:

You miss the whole context about Haaland. Below is his embarrassing stats in semi finals & finals for City in the treble winning season.

• 7 games
• 0 goals
• 0 assists
• 7 big chances missed

Mind you his teammates scored 12 goals in these 7 games bailing him out so that some can say he singlehandedly "carried his team" to treble.



When he doesn't score, he is almost always a ghost with 6/10 ratings, that's why people talk about him that much. Not only that, sometimes, when he scores a tap-in, he is still a ghost, see his game against United. The guy is a disaster all around play-wise finishing games with 10-20 touches per game. The greatest strikers shine even when they don't score.

It's a crime against football to put his name next to R9, Van Basten as a striker and mentioning his name in the Ballon D'or conversation because of "tap-in" stats.

Roy Keane just said what I and many people here have been saying for so long:
'He's almost like a LEAGUE TWO player'
"The levels of his general play are so poor. And not just today but in general,"

www.talksport.com/football/1809339/roy-keane-erling-haaland-league-two-player/

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Why are you restricting it at semi finals? He scored two goals against Bayern in the quarterfinal of the UCL and 3 against Burnley in the FA Cup (before you deride Burnley, the semi final was against Sheff United so that's hardly a big game).

This is what I mean by narrative, 'big game' is a purely objective label that people will maneuver to fit what they want to say.

Him being a ghost is based on his play style and not purely ability. If he is required to play a different way then he might see a different player, though not one as good as he is now. There have been many legends before him that have had similar styles, G.Muller, RVN, Inzaghi.

It's stupid to deride a tap-in. A goal is a goal, whether from 30 yards or 2 and it takes skill to do both at the amount Haaland scores them.

hasanejaz88 said:

Why are you restricting it at semi finals? He scored two goals against Bayern in the quarterfinal of the UCL and 3 against Burnley in the FA Cup (before you deride Burnley, the semi final was against Sheff United so that's hardly a big game).

This is what I mean by narrative, 'big game' is a purely objective label that people will maneuver to fit what they want to say.

Him being a ghost is based on his play style and not purely ability. If he is required to play a different way then he might see a different player, though not one as good as he is now. There have been many legends before him that have had similar styles, G.Muller, RVN, Inzaghi.

It's stupid to deride a tap-in. A goal is a goal, whether from 30 yards or 2 and it takes skill to do both at the amount Haaland scores them.

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Exactly.

"Haaland scores against United"

Oh, well we're shit, anyone would score against us

"Haaland scores against Chelsea"

Have you seen them this season? Doesn't count

"Haaland doesn't score against Chelsea"

See? Can't do it in the big games

Maluco said:

You can still have a good idea based on his touch and contribution to games. It would take a massive leap in his overall game.

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2 goals 1 assists against Bayern, against Real Madrid he could have had a hat trick, and even in the final despite an old racist pos playing the game of his life marking him he still had the one big chance of the first half

Better finishing on his part and he's be The Guy Who Won City The Treble

So no, he doesn't need to improve anything. He just needs to finish better in those big games

hasanejaz88 said:

Why are you restricting it at semi finals? He scored two goals against Bayern in the quarterfinal of the UCL and 3 against Burnley in the FA Cup (before you deride Burnley, the semi final was against Sheff United so that's hardly a big game).

This is what I mean by narrative, 'big game' is a purely objective label that people will maneuver to fit what they want to say.

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What are you talking about? Of course, a final or SF is way more important than the other games in any other tournament, these are the games City tends to fail especially in the UCL. These are the games where the competition intensifies, these are the games where legends are made.

City bought this ghost so that he could make a difference in those games rather than being carried by his poor teammates who had to score 12 on his behalf so that he can have a treble selfie.

You cannot ignore these games and also say ""but but Haaland won the treble for City by being the worst player on the pitch with the lowest ratings in 7 semi-final & final", it doesn't work like that..

hasanejaz88 said:

Him being a ghost is based on his play style and not purely ability.

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That's your own conclusion, he is widely acknowledged as a player severely lacking in link-up, hold-up, dribbling, dropping deep skills etc. as Keane said a below average player outside goalscoring.

At this point, he is a global meme.
www.twitter.com/AbdulAL97/status/1774510651374711092

hasanejaz88 said:

If he is required to play a different way then he might see a different player, though not one as good as he is now.

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He isn't required to play like that, because he can't. Imagine thinking he will transform into R9, Van Basten, Mbappe, Kane etc. the moment "he's required to play in a different way"

hasanejaz88 said:

There have been many legends before him that have had similar styles, G.Muller, RVN, Inzaghi.
It's stupid to deride a tap-in. A goal is a goal, whether from 30 yards or 2 and it takes skill to do both at the amount Haaland scores them.

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Gerd Muller and RVN are way above Haaland in terms of overall play. I don't think you have any idea on what Gerd Muller is capable of on and off the ball.

hasanejaz88 said:

It's stupid to deride a tap-in. A goal is a goal, whether from 30 yards or 2 and it takes skill to do both at the amount Haaland scores them.

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It's stupid to portray a player as City's savior and Ballon D'or worthy player just because he scores a lot of tap-ins with out of this world ghosting habits. There're at least 4 players last year above him at City including KDB, Rodri, Gundogan, Silva etc. last year and even more this year.

football is not = number of tap-ins..

adexkola said:

No, the United forum is here actually: https://www.redcafe.net/forums/manchester-united-forum.6/

This is the football forum, where people can discuss issues and topics not specific to United

And it's not about defending Haaland; there are a number of interesting takes here generated by people/bot's preconceived notions of what a striker should be, getting in the way of logical discussion. Or certain types of strikers being beat up by impossible standards failed by every other striker in history bar maybe the 2 freaks of recent times.

I've created a thread about RvN before, because his name nowadays is an epithet for strikers who "only score". So it's not just about Haaland.

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I understand defending Ruud because he was our player but to go so far to defend Haaland is downright weird unless there is some link.

BTW I'm of the opinion that some of the criticism is over the top but so is/was some of the praise especially last season. I remember watching a skysports show where they were talking about him surpassing Messi and Ronaldo which was absurd. They were both way beyond goals moreso Messi.

For me he can never be a player in the 'goat' conversation due mainly to his limited allround game but he can be in the greatest goalscorer conversation. When it comes to the ballond'or, he can win it and could have won it if it weren't for the world cup but there will always be that doubt.

giorno said:

2 goals 1 assists against Bayern, against Real Madrid he could have had a hat trick, and even in the final despite an old racist pos playing the game of his life marking him he still had the one big chance of the first half

Better finishing on his part and he's be The Guy Who Won City The Treble

So no, he doesn't need to improve anything. He just needs to finish better in those big games

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Against Madrid Courtois made some massive saves.

I'm not that fond of the big fella style, but he was trully important in the CL even if not scoring in the semis or final.

His record in Germany isn't overly relevant in my opinion. Plenty of players have performed in Germany and struggled in England

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The over the top statements surrounding the EPL in strict football terms it's at times fecking annoying. No one can deny that the EPL nowadays it's the richiest, best infraestructure, lots of invesment from foreigners and a global phenom, but even before these days, the islands live in a constant self praise bubble.
There is a list bigger than then Everest from any major traditional European League players going to other traditional League and not performing to their full potential, largely it's more due to the particular moment of the player, the team, the coach in charge etc than the League itself.

In the way it's constantly portrait since ages, those poor Krauts playing day in day out in their shyte league, they would never achieve anything in the NT nor produce any decent footballer...

giorno said:

2 goals 1 assists against Bayern, against Real Madrid he could have had a hat trick, and even in the final despite an old racist pos playing the game of his life marking him he still had the one big chance of the first half

Better finishing on his part and he's be The Guy Who Won City The Treble

So no, he doesn't need to improve anything. He just needs to finish better in those big games

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Completely disagree. There is no point saying he nearly did this and nearly did that. He doesn’t contribute enough in big games. His control isn’t good enough, for one, and you can clearly see it watching any clips of City training and rondos etc…

If the attitude is like this one, that he doesn’t need to, he won’t. But I doubt a coach like Guardiola will have him resting on what he can do. He will want a better overall player and that is probably his best chance at getting there.

“Doesn’t need to improve anything” is a crazy take.

Maluco said:

“Doesn’t need to improve anything” is a crazy take.

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He obviously needs to improve. Specifically, he needs to start scoring consistently in those games. Anything else is a bonus

I swear the Messi-Ronaldo years has broken football fans. Nigh on 20 years of pissing and shitting at each other, having to pick a side.

Haaland is not a world class footballer. He is a world class goal scorer. It’s ok to accept both of those things in your head at the same time.

I doubt that Pep would have wanted him if Aguero had been 4 years younger. But he’s probably very glad that he had him last season. The fellas impact is like nothing the league has ever seen.

The guy is a freak of nature, and will always score a shit-ton of goals. But he’s also getting worked out. That’s completely normal. If a team cuts out his supply line, he won’t score as many goals. He’ll still score some mad half chances and he’ll keep getting them. But he’s never going to be a player that’s heavily involved in build up and I don’t think he, or any of his managers or teams mates will care.

Apart from Pep, because the fella is a football pervert and may decide he wants to do it differently yet again.

Roy with his Haaland league two remark, nicely played, should score some goals now

royboy16 said:

Roy with his Haaland league two remark, nicely played, should score some goals now

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Im starting to get itchy trigger finger in FPL at this point

I honestly don't understand the argument over Haaland. It seems like nobody is really contradicting the other side. No one in their right mind can claim that he is not one of the greatest goalscorers we have ever seen in European football with a record that would make the greats proud. But also no one can claim that he does much more than that. If the argument is whether he needs to do more than that, well that depends on what he wants from his career. If he wants to be in the conversation with the Ronaldos and Messis, then most definitely he needs to do more than that. Even if he wants to be in the bracket of Henry, Suarez, Benzema, Salah or Lewa and potentially Mbappé, he needs to do more than that. Those players won their teams the biggest games and at the end of those game, you felt, the only difference was them. They changed the course of a match and were the decisive factor when everything was locked. So in order to be in the conversation with them, it just makes sense that you have to match that and no one can argue that Haaland has shown that quality on a consistent basic yet or ever actually...

If he wants to be viewed as a great number 9 and the ultimate goalscorer, then if anything, he can do 70 or 80% of what he's been doing so far and that would be more than enough because what he's been doing is freakish. As for the Balon d'Or conversation, that's not really indicative of much when you consider that Michael Owen has one. The Balon d'Or just means you're viewed as the highest performer of a specific year, so if there is a year when no one else stands out, plenty can win it like Owen did. It's like winning the league, you don't actually need to tick every box, you just need to be better than 19 other teams. The quality of those 19 teams vary every year, hence the quality required to win varies.

The second Haaland was left out, City won a league game by their biggest margin in 6 months.

With an xG even higher than when they beat Bournemouth 6-1. And this was against a top 4 team.

But I'm sure it's just a coincidence.

Saffron said:

The second Haaland was left out of the team, City won a league game by their biggest margin in 6 months.

With an xG even higher than when they beat Bournemouth 6-1.

But I'm sure it's just a coincidence.

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Villa didn't have Pau Torres, Martinez or Moreno to be fair and Alvarez had a few opportunities where I could see Haaland scoring them (he could have missed them too of course, as he has done at times this season). But they did play very well without him, Foden stepped into the void. Doku and Grealish also played as traditional wide wingers which helped. With Haaland and KDB in the team, Pep often shuffles it around with CBs and weird enough configurations to make it work. Whereas today it seemed more like a 'simple' 4-2-3-1/4-3-3, which worked great.

Saffron said:

The second Haaland was left out, City won a league game by their biggest margin in 6 months.

With an xG even higher than when they beat Bournemouth 6-1. And this was against a top 4 team.

But I'm sure it's just a coincidence.

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Aye, ditto for KDB, and Stones, and Walker, and Ederson.

adexkola said:

Aye, ditto for KDB, and Stones, and Walker, and Ederson.

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Ederson? Legitimately yes. The most overrated keeper in the Premiership.

Remember how 2-3 seasons ago City would spend entire second halves just mucking about after having utterly decided the game by halftime?

Some would commend them for showing restraint whereas others wished they would just go for it and make it 10-0 for the hell of it. Funny how we never hear those discussions anymore.

Haaland the ghost leading his team to another CL title, the ultimate difference maker..

Hold-up play is still very poor. He needs the ball crossed to him and played as a through ball to run onto.

This is what Neville meant when he coined the term 'silent domination'.

Did City really need to sign him?

How many touches has he had all game?

I haven’t really seen him tbh, rudiger owned him a bit at the start and he won a feeekick from backing in in the second half. Ummm oh he chased back once

John Cena returns

Not sure why city play those long balls without having anyone around him. What is he supposed to do with those balls? Bad game still, but that is a difficult spot to be in.

Haaland to me shows the folly of focusing so much on Hojlunds goal total rather his all round game. Haaland is a generational goalscorer that often doesn't make the team better, can't be one dimensional even if that dimension is the the elite of the elite.

tap-in merchant.

He will absolutely give Luton a hiding at the weekend though, so there.

I'd take a player like Vinicius Jr over him any day regardless of how many more tap-ins he scores..

If City wins b2b UCL, which they probably will, i guess it doesn't matter if he doesn't score.

Don’t worry guys, he’ll probably bang in 7 against Luton at the weekend and he’ll be a world class generational talent again.

Stat padding fraud.

Average Haaland performance