Keane x Vieira x Rodri aka The Main Midfield Men thread

Desert Eagle

Punjabi Dude
Joined
Sep 25, 2006
Messages
17,227
Complete midfielders who are leaders and winners. None were prolific on the stat sheet but still arguably the most important player in those great teams. A rare breed of midfielder that can anchor a side defensively and offensively. In an ideal world we get someone of this profile to partner Kobbe and become his Shaq. Arsenal will be hoping Rice can get on their level.

Who else in the modern game fits into this elite mould and how would you rate the three I named?
 

Hammondo

Full Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2015
Messages
6,871
Rodri really isn't like the other 2, he's a DM + deep lying playmaker. Closer to Carrick.
 

Mike Smalling

Full Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2018
Messages
11,044
Rodri is a really impressive player. Physical, intelligent, has a high technical level, and has scored some important goals for his team, even if that's not his main skill. He gets away with a ton of fouls, but why wouldn't he, when the refs always fail to punish him?

But yeah, like others have pointed out, he is quite different from Keane and Vieira in their primes. In terms of style, I think Declan Rice might be the midfielder at a top PL side that reminds me most of those two. Box-to-box and influential without necessarily scoring or assisting in high numbers.
 

TenonTen

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 16, 2022
Messages
874
Supports
Neutral
I think this is what they call the "Midfield General" type. They're not pure destroyers/DMs. I think Ngolo Kante had absolutely ridiculous influence on the game in his pomp. Does he fit into this mould?
 

adexkola

Doesn't understand sportswashing.
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
48,443
Location
The CL is a glorified FA Cup set to music
Supports
orderly disembarking on planes
TenonTen said:
I think this is what they call the "Midfield General" type. They're not pure destroyers/DMs. I think Ngolo Kante had absolutely ridiculous influence on the game in his pomp. Does he fit into this mould?
Click to expand...
No he did not, and no he does not belong in this conversation

It's debatable whether you can even include Rodri in this conversation because until midway last season, he played more like a pure DM. Vieira and Keane were proper box to box midfielders at their respective peaks
 

tomaldinho1

Full Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2015
Messages
17,806
Rodri should be compared to Busquets, Carrick, Pirlo, latter years Scholes etc. he's not really like the other two.

Keane/Viera were the ultimate form of all round CMs that were essential for the days of 442. Viera a bit more of a dribbler, Keane was actually a superb passer but people forget as he played along with Scholes etc. and you tend to remember the long highlight reel passes.
 

Pascal Quiff

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jul 8, 2022
Messages
361
Supports
Liverpool
Often forgotten, but I always thought that Essien was a much better player than he got credit for
 

FrankDrebin

Don't call me Shirley
Joined
Aug 25, 2019
Messages
20,461
Location
Police Squad
Supports
USA Manchester Red Socks
Essien had all the tools to be one of the worlds best midfielders but I always felt something was holding him back.
 

LawCharltonBest

Enjoys watching fox porn
Joined
May 17, 2012
Messages
15,320
Location
Salford
Rodri could be the best player the world has ever seen. I still couldn’t put him in the same league as Veira or Keane because nothing he does matters
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

I pity the poor fool who stinks like I do!
Joined
Apr 15, 2015
Messages
10,252
Location
Blitztown
He’s standing out so much as - much with Haaland - there aren’t many players like him about.

He’s streets ahead of everyone at the minute as he’s got the lot, but the Keane/Vieira era had loads of footballers that could do what he’s doing. That he’s doing it so consistently and always in the biggest matches is the most impressive thing about him.

World Class player but he’s lauded for being an outlier in his time.
 

P-Ro

"Full Member"
Joined
Nov 21, 2014
Messages
11,356
Location
Salford
Supports
Chelsea and AFC Wimbledon
adexkola said:
No he did not, and no he does not belong in this conversation
Click to expand...
He did not have 'absolutely ridiculous influence'? Modric, Kroos and Casemiro say hello. He single handedly tore them to shreds in our champions league semi final and was the most important player in the build up to both goals. It was the greatest midfield performance ever for a player in a Chelsea shirt.

And before you say those 3 were past it..they won the Champions League the season after.
 

giorno

boob novice
Joined
Jul 20, 2016
Messages
26,625
Supports
Real Madrid
P-Ro said:
He did not have 'absolutely ridiculous influence'? Modric, Kroos and Casemiro say hello. He single handedly tore them to shreds in our champions league semi final and was the most important player in the build up to both goals. It was the greatest midfield performance ever for a player in a Chelsea shirt.

And before you say those 3 were past it..they won the Champions League the season after.
Click to expand...
I agree with you on Kante in general terms but that semi-final does come with the caveat that Real Madrid were physically and mentally shot by that point
 

Mainoonited

Full Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2023
Messages
211
P-Ro said:
He did not have 'absolutely ridiculous influence'? Modric, Kroos and Casemiro say hello. He single handedly tore them to shreds in our champions league semi final and was the most important player in the build up to both goals. It was the greatest midfield performance ever for a player in a Chelsea shirt.

And before you say those 3 were past it..they won the Champions League the season after.
Click to expand...
I think the conversation should be about about a career rather than a match or a season.

If you're going to look at small windows then Wilshire bossed peak Barcelona once too.
 

adexkola

Doesn't understand sportswashing.
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
48,443
Location
The CL is a glorified FA Cup set to music
Supports
orderly disembarking on planes
P-Ro said:
He did not have 'absolutely ridiculous influence'? Modric, Kroos and Casemiro say hello. He single handedly tore them to shreds in our champions league semi final and was the most important player in the build up to both goals. It was the greatest midfield performance ever for a player in a Chelsea shirt.

And before you say those 3 were past it..they won the Champions League the season after.
Click to expand...
As a destroyer? Yes. And I'm not saying he was a scrub or that those 3 were past it.

I'm saying that his ridiculous influence was limited to destroying play. It didn't extend to facilitating, like Vieira and Keane could, and displayed consistently over multiple seasons for United/Arsenal.

You can't point to a single game as proof to the contrary. Otherwise Eder is the greatest goal scorer of all time

Excellent player of course.
 

P-Ro

"Full Member"
Joined
Nov 21, 2014
Messages
11,356
Location
Salford
Supports
Chelsea and AFC Wimbledon
Mainoonited said:
I think the conversation should be about about a career rather than a match or a season.

If you're going to look at small windows then Wilshire bossed peak Barcelona once too.
Click to expand...
I just used that one match as an example. Kante's window was hardly small..he was the best player for Leicester and Chelsea in their respective Premier League title wins. And he was the best midfielder on the planet in 2022. A few seasons with injury struggles and one year of being completely mismanaged by Sarri in-between shouldn't really factor into the conversation of how influential he was when he was when fit. It's hardly comparable to Wheelchair who had a handful of good games one year.
 

P-Ro

"Full Member"
Joined
Nov 21, 2014
Messages
11,356
Location
Salford
Supports
Chelsea and AFC Wimbledon
adexkola said:
As a destroyer? Yes. And I'm not saying he was a scrub or that those 3 were past it.

I'm saying that his ridiculous influence was limited to destroying play. It didn't extend to facilitating, like Vieira and Keane could, and displayed consistently over multiple seasons for United/Arsenal.

You can't point to a single game as proof to the contrary. Otherwise Eder is the greatest goal scorer of all time

Excellent player of course.
Click to expand...
I'm not arguing that. You made the blanket statement that he wasn't absolutely influential. And he clearly was. Now you've clarified that you meant he wasn't as consistently 'facilitating' as Keane and Vieira which is true. But that's not what you originally said.
 

Desert Eagle

Punjabi Dude
Joined
Sep 25, 2006
Messages
17,227
P-Ro said:
I'm not arguing that. You made the blanket statement that he wasn't absolutely influential. And he clearly was. Now you've clarified that you meant he wasn't as consistently 'facilitating' as Keane and Vieira which is true. But that's not what you originally said.
Click to expand...
I thought about Kante when making the thread too but felt his influence on the attacking side of the game was a little less than the three in the op. Could easily see a case where he is included in the group though. I think peak Essien or Ballack is more the mold I was thinking of but others have said they don't see Rodri as the same as the other two so it's all subjective.
 

KeanoMagicHat

Full Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2019
Messages
4,034
Hammondo said:
Rodri really isn't like the other 2, he's a DM + deep lying playmaker. Closer to Carrick.
Click to expand...
Not really this season, been getting forward plenty, been more like Keane and Vieira than Carrick. Carrick was never as dynamic going forward as Rodri is this season. He already has 4 more Premier League goals for City than Carrick had for United, in 151 fewer games.
 

adexkola

Doesn't understand sportswashing.
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
48,443
Location
The CL is a glorified FA Cup set to music
Supports
orderly disembarking on planes
P-Ro said:
I'm not arguing that. You made the blanket statement that he wasn't absolutely influential. And he clearly was. Now you've clarified that you meant he wasn't as consistently 'facilitating' as Keane and Vieira which is true. But that's not what you originally said.
Click to expand...
Fair. He was absolutely influential. But Keane and Vieira could do what Kante did, and more

I don't know why my phone keeps correcting Kante to Kanye
 

Oranges038

Full Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2020
Messages
12,224
tomaldinho1 said:
Rodri should be compared to Busquets, Carrick, Pirlo, latter years Scholes etc. he's not really like the other two.

Keane/Viera were the ultimate form of all round CMs that were essential for the days of 442. Viera a bit more of a dribbler, Keane was actually a superb passer but people forget as he played along with Scholes etc. and you tend to remember the long highlight reel passes.
Click to expand...
Off both feet as well, it's a quality that is so often overlooked with him. Those forward passes fired through the lines into feet were crucial to so many Utd attacks when he played.
 

bond19821982

Last Man Standing champion 2019/20
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
10,426
Location
Nnc
I doubt all 3 of them together would make a great midfield. Rodri isn't like other two and so he would fit in. But Keane and Viera ? No way !
 

Righteous Steps

Full Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2016
Messages
2,348
giorno said:
except they couldn't. Not at his level
Click to expand...
Players of the past get attached with ridiculous hyperbole. Viera could probably do some of what Kante did, but I’m not sure even he had the tireless workrate and force when driving forward even if he was technically superior. Keane would affect the game more with his passing than Kante did but he most certainly couldn’t carry the ball as affectively as Kante.

Kantes short peak is up there with those players, but overall he is a level below.
 

Hammondo

Full Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2015
Messages
6,871
KeanoMagicHat said:
Not really this season, been getting forward plenty, been more like Keane and Vieira than Carrick. Carrick was never as dynamic going forward as Rodri is this season. He already has 4 more Premier League goals for City than Carrick had for United, in 151 fewer games.
Click to expand...
Very true but City play a very different style, deep players have much more of a chance to get forward and Rodri is a better goal scorer
 

DWelbz19

Correctly predicted Portugal to win Euro 2016
Joined
Oct 31, 2012
Messages
34,044
Righteous Steps said:
Players of the past get attached with ridiculous hyperbole. Viera could probably do some of what Kante did, but I’m not sure even he had the tireless workrate and force when driving forward even if he was technically superior. Keane would affect the game more with his passing than Kante did but he most certainly couldn’t carry the ball as affectively as Kante.

Kantes short peak is up there with those players, but overall he is a level below.
Click to expand...
Kante's ball carrying is definitely something that goes understated.
 

Irwin99

Full Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2018
Messages
9,379
bond19821982 said:
I doubt all 3 of them together would make a great midfield. Rodri isn't like other two and so he would fit in. But Keane and Viera ? No way !
Click to expand...
A lot of the 90s had midfields that had two box to box players like Keane and Ince, Keane and Butt, Vieira and Petit, I think Keane and Vieria would be an unstoppable midfield.

All due respect to Nicky Butt and Paul Scholes but I would love to have seen a clash between Keane and Ince vs Vieira and Petit. The aggression :drool:
 

bond19821982

Last Man Standing champion 2019/20
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
10,426
Location
Nnc
Irwin99 said:
A lot of the 90s had midfields that had two box to box players like Keane and Ince, Keane and Butt, Vieira and Petit, I think Keane and Vieria would be an unstoppable midfield.

All due respect to Nicky Butt and Paul Scholes but I would love to have seen a clash between Keane and Ince vs Vieira and Petit. The aggression :drool:
Click to expand...
That's kind of my point too. If we had both Keane and Viera I would be worried about a fight between them than with others.
 

FrankDrebin

Don't call me Shirley
Joined
Aug 25, 2019
Messages
20,461
Location
Police Squad
Supports
USA Manchester Red Socks
Keane and Viera may have actually been a midfield for us in the 2001 season had Viera accepted the move.
But he didnt and a month down the line we signed Veron.
 

JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

Full Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
1,739
Location
Norn Iron
I'm glad Keane and Viera never played together as they were wonderful rivals.

People laughably underrated Keanes passing. He had a 88-90% career pass percentage and he was forever driving forward. Those are insane numbers
 

Irwin99

Full Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2018
Messages
9,379
JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo said:
I'm glad Keane and Viera never played together as they were wonderful rivals.

People laughably underrated Keanes passing. He had a 88-90% career pass percentage and he was forever driving forward. Those are insane numbers
Click to expand...
Yeah, I remember seeing Keane's opta stats for his last 5 seasons at the club and his passing stats were always that level. Such a consistent player. His stats for his final full season were very impressive as well.

I'd love to see Vieira's opta stats from his days at Arsenal. I'd be interested to see how his overall passing accuracy compared to Keane's.
 

al.gabiru

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jul 4, 2014
Messages
86
Casemiro's peak is comparable to that of Rodri. But Casemiro was in the shadow of Kroos and Modric (but who wouldn't be?)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.