Weren't they always on the Mandela boat? since the beginning?
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Exactly, horrible cnuts.Weren't they always on the Mandela boat? since the beginning?
Giggsyking
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I snapped in anger when he mocked the Innocent civilians with his quotation gesture. Racist sh*t.Tweet
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That_Bloke
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It's the chance of a lifetime for Israel to definitely get rid of Gaza. Beyond the appalling human cost, they've effectively destroyed every relevant infrastructure for a normal country or city to function. It's not nearly enough talked about but that's a crucial fact. The question is will they manage to push the Gazans into the Sinai Desert or wherever. All lies on the Rafah offensive.Sorry for the slow response. Fully hear with what you're saying and don't disagree that they deliberately targeted and murdered the WCK aid workers. However, my original point is that shooting fish in a barrel and committing genocide is not a clever or good plan for their obvious aim of wiping out the idea of a Palestinian state or people. The irony is that they had eroded the idea of a Palestinian state to such an extent that prior to this war a two-party solution was effectively off the table.
If you had said on 6th Oct that in 6 months:
- Israel would be on the wrong side of the ICJ
- US and UK would be openly discussing stopping weapon sales to Israel
- Saudi Arabia and the Gulf states were downgrading diplomatic ties
- Calls to recognise the Palestinian state by the EU, Cameron etc.
- Israel is seriously diminished on the world stage
There will be long term consequences for the state of Israel that I believe ends up with the recognition of a Palestinian State by the EU, UK, US, CA plus Russia and China. And I said it at the time, this is what Hamas wanted when it attacked Israel on the 7th Oct. All the butchery is exactly because the IDF and Netanyahu and his fascist government have no plan other than simply killing Palestinians. War crimes do not equate to good strategy or put the Israeli's in a position of strength long term.
In the next year we will see the fall of Netanyahu for good, his own people despise him. He is now stuck in a war where he can't have the hostages returned, as they are the reason the war is continuing.
Now obviously this has come at the expense of millions of innocent Palestinians maimed, displaced, and dead. The stain of Israeli war crimes will live long in the memory of the entire region. What we won't see, sadly, is any of the Israeli politicians in the Hague for war crimes. Countries will probably be officially declaring what we're witnessing a genocide in 50 years time, causing diplomatic rifts with Israel - much like declaring the Armenian genocide a genocide today pisses Turkey off.
Israel and Hamas are both gambling. The former counts on the policy of the usual "fait accompli" policy and the Western establishment's willful blindness to carry it out, the latter on the world's opinion to definitely break the deadlock.
- They always have been.
- They never officially did and it won't stop.
- It's on stand-by. For a very long time, but on stand-by nevertheless.
- There are none. You're massively mistaken if you think that the UK will recognize Palestine, unless the
- They indeed are and I maintain that they will never recover from it.
The US just rejected the recognition of Palestine as a UN full member, backed by all Western members of the UNSC.
They have a plan. A very clear one which is solving the Gaza question once and for all. People are falling into the same trap as with Putin and assuming that every perceived enemy is an incompetent madman. Netanyahu, his government and the IDF are anything but.
He never gave a feck about them, made it clear from day one and the Israeli population is going along with it. The hostages never played any relevant role in this massacre.
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Rooney24
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Starting to sound like Biden has had enough.
but will really believe it when they pull the next weapons shipment
but will really believe it when they pull the next weapons shipment
Giggsyking
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If I was in their position I would start looking for a new job, I would not soak my hands in the blood of tens of thousands of innocent people that their government helped shed.Tweet
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Giggsyking
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No, he just sanctioned a new aid package to Israel.Starting to sound like Biden has had enough.
but will really believe it when they pull the next weapons shipment
The Corinthian
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The weapons were committed to years ago, so I wouldn't bank on it. The one thing Biden could do is speak out more forcefully, which would put a lot of pressure on Netanyahu, in the absence of his main international supporter, to not go into Rafa. Not that it would work, given that the Israelis aren't going to stop until Hamas are no longer a threat from Gaza.Starting to sound like Biden has had enough.
but will really believe it when they pull the next weapons shipment
Idxomer
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You still think this is about Hamas?The weapons were committed to years ago, so I wouldn't bank on it. The one thing Biden could do is speak out more forcefully, which would put a lot of pressure on Netanyahu, in the absence of his main international supporter, to not go into Rafa. Not that it would work, given that the Israelis aren't going to stop until Hamas are no longer a threat from Gaza.
Anyway, Hamas already poses no actual threat to anything outside of Gaza, this has been the case for months. It will take years though to kill their influence inside of Gaza.
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RedTiger
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That_Bloke
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How are they going to achieve that?The weapons were committed to years ago, so I wouldn't bank on it. The one thing Biden could do is speak out more forcefully, which would put a lot of pressure on Netanyahu, in the absence of his main international supporter, to not go into Rafa. Not that it would work, given that the Israelis aren't going to stop until Hamas are no longer a threat from Gaza.
MDFC Manager
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TerroristYahoo will oblige him... Not
Giggsyking
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I don not think he know how.How are they going to achieve that?
Frosty
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Graduated in 2012, which makes her 33.The Israel lobby is unprecedented. Are there lawyers for any other country?
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Her website:
"After her law degree at Oxford University and an LL.M. specialising in public international law, Natasha clerked for the President of the Supreme Court of Israel in Jerusalem. In 2018, as a Pegasus Scholar, Natasha was a Fellow at Columbia Law School in the National Security Law Program. She lectures globally on aspects of public international law and national security policy."
I would trust the 600 signatories over her view, especially given you had ex Supreme Court judges from across the political spectrum agreeing on this issue.
Idxomer
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"Israel's army's Chief of Staff decides to fire the Nahal Brigade Commander and Assistant Brigade Commander after the killing of aid workers from the WCK".
They found their scapegoats.
They found their scapegoats.
The Corinthian
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And you know this completely meaningless and transparent firing will result in Biden saying something like ‘they have corrected their mistake and taken accountability’."Israel's army's Chief of Staff decides to fire the Nahal Brigade Commander and Assistant Brigade Commander after the killing of aid workers from the WCK".
They found their scapegoats.
Giggsyking
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The Corinthian
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Boycotts making a difference it seems.
4bars
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My guess is that franchises can action some policies as they are the owners. I assume the franchise contracts allows them to give free meals, discounts etc... If MacDonalds buy them back (probably in the contract), they dictate what can or can't be doneForgive my ignorance, but what does this mean on practice? It seems as though the branches will remain open, but without the discounts?
The Corinthian
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Yes, exactly - Independent franchisors in Israel giving discounted / free food has hurt the McDonalds brand worldwide (and I think their projected sales forecast). Bringing these restaurants back in house will at least stop the free / discounted food being given out as McDonald’s now own the restaurants again. Although I wouldn’t be surprised if they ended up closing a few heavy loss making branches in the coming months. But it’s about saving face and saving the brand.Forgive my ignorance, but what does this mean on practice? It seems as though the branches will remain open, but without the discounts?
They’re supposedly haemorrhaging money in their Arab branches as well, so I think we may hear something similar there down the line.
ManUtd1999
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I would love to see McDonald’s struggling, and not just because of the war in Gaza.
That_Bloke
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Peak of methodical and organized human cruelty. From victims to child killers. Shame on anyone supporting or trying to justify this.
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JeffFromHK
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As an Israeli, how do you think the views of your country's general public are?there is some sort of extreme nationalism in Israel?That's nonsense.
We did not invade Poland (yet).
Do your fellow compatriots feel that the lives of the Gaza civilians worth nothing?
The USA and Russia are not saints but the Afghan civilians killed in USA's war in Afghanistan was 46k in 20 years and the Ukraine civilians killed in the Russian invasion is 10-20k in 2 years. while 30k+ Palestinians have been killed in half-year conflict.
Amir
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Definitely. The public has generally moved more to the right since the 90s, and part of it includes extreme nationalism. It's gotten worse since October 7 and might be getting worse now, as some feel is 'us against the world' because people can't fathom why the world has turned against in recent months.As an Israeli, how do you think the views of your country's general public are?there is some sort of extreme nationalism in Israel?
Many feel exactly that, though I can't quantify it. For some it's a case of 'there are no innocent people in Gaza' due to the celebrations and involvement of people there on October 7, plus claims of military people returning from Gaza of finding weapons in loads of houses there. You could say it's just their excuse not to care about people dying in Gaza, including women and children, but that's pretty much the bottom line: They don't care how many die there.Do your fellow compatriots feel that the lives of the Gaza civilians worth nothing?
Yeah, this has gone way too far. Israel had every right to defend itself and attack Hamas after October 7, but this has been like a bull in a China shop. Between the wish for revenge by many - including people serving in the IDF and fighting in Gaza - and a govenment that has no direction what-so-ever and is making moves based on its own wish for survival, this is been a gross and murderous miscalculation.The USA and Russia are not saints but the Afghan civilians killed in USA's war in Afghanistan was 46k in 20 years and the Ukraine civilians killed in the Russian invasion is 10-20k in 2 years. while 30k+ Palestinians have been killed in half-year conflict.
And yet, so many in Israel still support that move and wish to continue it while thinking childishly we're going to 'annihilate Hamas'.
Bert_
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Potentially the straw that broke the camel's back for some but the narrative had already started to shift before that incident. The reservations on calling out what Israel are doing seems to have disappeared in the major outlets. Israel's propoganda machine has completely collapsed.So finally the western media is calling out Israel, wonder if it has anything to do with westerners being killed? The systemic racism is disgusting, all it took was 7 westerners, showing the lack of respect for the Palestinian people that these cnuts have.
Should have happened a long time ago but better late than never as @The Corinthian said.
JeffFromHK
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Thanks for your info.Definitely. The public has generally moved more to the right since the 90s, and part of it includes extreme nationalism. It's gotten worse since October 7 and might be getting worse now, as some feel is 'us against the world' because people can't fathom why the world has turned against in recent months.
Many feel exactly that, though I can't quantify it. For some it's a case of 'there are no innocent people in Gaza' due to the celebrations and involvement of people there on October 7, plus claims of military people returning from Gaza of finding weapons in loads of houses there. You could say it's just their excuse not to care about people dying in Gaza, including women and children, but that's pretty much the bottom line: They don't care how many die there.
Yeah, this has gone way too far. Israel had every right to defend itself and attack Hamas after October 7, but this has been like a bull in a China shop. Between the wish for revenge by many - including people serving in the IDF and fighting in Gaza - and a govenment that has no direction what-so-ever and is making moves based on its own wish for survival, this is been a gross and murderous miscalculation.
And yet, so many in Israel still support that move and wish to continue it while thinking childishly we're going to 'annihilate Hamas'.
I am an outsider, was even slightly pro Israel before 7 Oct given that Israel feels more "civilized", but feel that Israel is not doing itself any favor. The world was with your country on 7 Oct and it is amazing that your country can vapourize people's sympathy that quickly, and I see your country's PR department just keep repeating the "look how bad these Hamas terrorists are!" cliche. It is even more amazing that Israeli feel perplexed by USA's reaction to Israel's cruelty while indeed the USA has been very lenient to Israel (US's bombing of Yugoslavia is a good reference).
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ScholesyTheWise
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There is no real PR department, at least not a functioning one.Thanks for your info.
I am an outsider, was even slightly pro Israel before 7 Oct given that Israel feels more "civilized", but feel that Israel is not doing itself any favor. The world was with your country on 7 Oct and it is amazing that your country can vapourize people's sympathy that quickly, and I see your country's PR department just keep repeating the "look how bad these Hamas terrorists are!" cliche. It is even more amazing that Israeli feel perplexed by USA's reaction to Israel's cruelty while indeed the USA has been very lenient to Israel (US's bombing of Yugoslavia is a good reference).
to add to the post that Amir has written which I agree with,
one has to understand that it's a slow process that's built gradually over the years.
even since you're in kindergarten you are taught about the heroic actions of the fallen soldiers over the years.
and then you get to to 9th grade, highschool... and you want to get into the best units of the IDF, the combative ones. it's a status symbol,
and it fills young people and their parents with real pride.
You are there to make sure that the enemy doesn't hurt you. if your enemy is seen as a human being, then you have a problem.
so he has to remain a figure, A Palestinian. no name, no identity.
I grew up in a secular, liberal, anti-religion home. parents voting for left leaning parties etc.
Still, no one hardly ever said anything to me about people living in the WB or Gaza. they're just there, and they don't like us, and we don't like them.
the proposition of peace for the 1990s is dead and buried. They don't want us here, never have, never will. this is probably what's being repeated in many many homes in Israel in the ears of children, to various degrees of extremisms. My parents never said anything like that to me, but I still picked it up from the general atmosphere, from how the media here portrait the world, from Memorial Days...
So all in all, people from the non-religious public in Israel grow up to be rather indifferent about the suffering of people on the other side of the border. so long as they don't throw missiles at us and not bother us, then fine. it's a shame that they're even there but what can you do, this is the Middle East after all...
And when they do throw missiles at us, we will feck them up ten folds with our planes and drones, and they will stay put for another 20 years...
I don't think I ever met a single person from "my population group" who wished for tens of thousands of Gazans to die. people just wished for them to keep living in that open air prison and die anyway, but "not by our hands".
The shift in the Israeli society since October is that many more people will say that bluntly - "I don't give a single feck about anyone over there, that's their undoing. They made it very clear that we have no choice but to act the way we do".
I think that people are just starting to lose their minds really.
Denis79
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Chances are they or a similar group will grow stronger than ever because of Israels brutality. There is a good chance that other grouos outside of Gaza that are anti-Israel will also grow in ranks.And yet, so many in Israel still support that move and wish to continue it while thinking childishly we're going to 'annihilate Hamas'.
Giggsyking
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Drainy
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Just to point out that the tide began turning with the proposed attack on Rafah.So finally the western media is calling out Israel, wonder if it has anything to do with westerners being killed? The systemic racism is disgusting, all it took was 7 westerners, showing the lack of respect for the Palestinian people that these cnuts have.