You second best player who's scored total of 0 goals and assisted one goal in the entire knockout phase of your CL title? He also hardly scored any important goal in the league campaign that year, scoring 2 or 3 goals in your 5-0 or 10-0 wins hardly meant a lot to your team. And we are talking about a player who is mostly rated because of his goals and pretty much nothing else.
Prime Bale or Prime Salah?
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Salah is clearly better than Bale but he isn’t in the conversation with Henry. Comfortably below.
Yes
He carried us through spring. Scored all the goals while cristiano was injured/unfit, and was generally the guy making things happen. Was also our best player by far in both SF games and final
This is gigantic hyperbole.
He had the opportunity once Ronaldo left and utterly failed at it. Rooney had that same opportunity and did miles better than Bale for our United side despite the fact that you could argue that Real Madrid are more quality surrounding Bale too. If Rooney doesn't pick up that injury vs Bayern in the 1st leg, I am pretty sure we win the league that season. I don't think we'd lose to Chelsea at Old Trafford with Rooney. Even if we did, we still needed only a win vs Blackburn afterwards. If Rooney played that game, I'm 99% confident we'd have won that 1.
I will concede that we had the best manager ever as well to immediately compensate for Ronaldo's exit unlike Real Madrid. I still maintain they had more individual quality. I mean, it was pretty much the same core that won 3 CL titles in a row.
And then Benzema was the main man later on in a way that Bale never could be for a CL side. I think people are rewriting what Bale was in this thread a good amount. His unavailability is also a heavy mark against him.
I think some posters here think that "peak" means taking the single best move/goal/dribble from some player's career highlights and pretending that's what he was doing on weekly basis. Bale's peak wasn't outrunning Maicon every week or scoring that wonder goal in CL final.
he is simply ridiculously far behind Salah in output to say he was better goalscorer/matchwinner/whatever during his best years.
his most productive seasons in CL are on pair with Salah's worst (5 goals, Basel). Salah has more goals just in his last two CL campaigns than Bale in his entire Madrid career.
his most productive seasons in league are comfortably below Salah as well. what is average for Salah is all time high for Bale. and even his average/good seasons are on pair with Salah's worst (those 15+ seasons in Roma).
those who say clearly Bale obviously mean they like his goals more.
he is simply ridiculously far behind Salah in output to say he was better goalscorer/matchwinner/whatever during his best years.
his most productive seasons in CL are on pair with Salah's worst (5 goals, Basel). Salah has more goals just in his last two CL campaigns than Bale in his entire Madrid career.
his most productive seasons in league are comfortably below Salah as well. what is average for Salah is all time high for Bale. and even his average/good seasons are on pair with Salah's worst (those 15+ seasons in Roma).
those who say clearly Bale obviously mean they like his goals more.
He didn't have enough tekkersHow the hell is C Ronaldo not a generational talent
Not saying he is at the level of Henry but I remember people discussing it here not so far ago. I would also say Henry is better than Salah.
No, he was simply exhilarating to watch. I never bothered watching Liverpool because of Salah but regularly tuned in to watch Spurs and some Madrid games whenever Bale played. The same reason people tuned in to watch Ronaldo at United/Madrid and Messi at Barca. That's my definition anyway.
I kinda agree with you to an extent but you can't argue that a huge part of Ronaldo’s success is owed to:
1. Hardwork which ofcourse should be praised.
2. Obsession with goals. I was watching his goals from 2007/8 season and a big number of goals came from lung bursting runs to make himself available to finish the crosses with one touch.
Bale had a very similar style to Ronaldo but was inferior at heading and never made those runs. A typical example of such a goal is his second goal vs Bayern in the semi of the 2013/14 ucl.
As far as pure talent is concerned, Ronaldo belongs to a tier similar to the likes of Robben. Whether Bale is Inferior is subjective.
You are confusing talent and greatness.How the hell is C Ronaldo not a generational talent
He literally was 1:1 matching the GOAT'S (Messi) stats throughout their careers & many couldn't choose between who the GOAT was until arguably Messi won the World Cup.
Some still regard him as their personal GOAT.
He is more than a generational talent, he is an absolute legend of the game & if not in the top 2 of all time then definitely in the top 5 or at the very least top 10
I'd love to have whatever you're smoking!
I'd argue Ronaldo was just as important at making the inverted winger/forward role big as Messi & Pep managed to build/rebuild the False 9 position.
He is one of the greatest ever, top 5, but not a generational talent in pure terms; Messi was the by far the most talented of his general. Rooney was also considered a bigger talent.
He really worked on his game to become a machine and a big success. As for goat debate, it really is media and fan (Real and United) created. If you watched the game with an unbiased eye, it was never close.
Yes.
I'll give you an example:
Ronaldo never won the golden boy award. Many of those who won the award may not have fulfilled their initial promise for whatever reason but it recognised their talent at a young age. As a footballer, Ronaldo far exceeded what would be expected of him based purely on talent. There were other ingredients in his success.
I don't think much people tuned in to watch Bale at Madrid. Like when he scored that goal against Liverpool. It was more, "oh he exists still" than, "that's why I tuned in to watch"
His career there was a disappointment overall, despite the trophies.
His career there was a disappointment overall, despite the trophies.
No you think technique is equal to talent.
There has been plenty of players who had less technique and things like power instead.
Do you not remember Ronaldo dribbling step over after step over like a mad man in his first two seasons - it was beautiful to watch.
He turned more physical because he played in a more physical league than a league like La Liga when he was growing up.
He turned in to a physical monster in the PL and then people suddenly believed he had no technique.
Ronaldo could have easily played for Barcelona LW growing up and would have grown up differently as a player had he grown up at Barcelona or even La Masia focusing on things like his technique more than things like his physical ability. We would have seen a different version of Ronaldo because of this.
Whilst I don't doubt Messi is the Official GOAT (if i had to make an answer in a theory test, Messi would be my answer), but why Ronaldo is my personal GOAT is because he had technique to begin with but then turned in to a physical monster that he had to go through to conquer England, Spain, Italy, England again and then Saudi Arabia.
I value his ability to play arguably near the same level in 3 different top leagues very highly as I think to do that, a player needs power just as much as technique. I have seen too many great players absolutely dominate a single league but then go on to find it harder/become lesser versions of themselves in different leagues - never mind even finding it just as hard when moving to a different club in the Same league. Examples being, Greizmann to Barcelona, Maradona at Barcelona, Neymar to PSG (3rd best player in the world/the next Pele at Barcelona to arguably a flop of a career), Torres to Chelsea, Shevchenko from Ac Milan to Chelsea, Forlan to La Liga vs his version at United etc.
Serie A 90's was the best league I ever saw - but after that, the toughest league I have ever seen is the PL ever since Arsenal, United's 2 horse race became 3+ after the addition of Chelsea and then many more teams afterwards.
Bring any young Barcelona player in any era as a youngster to the PL and they would have had to grow up as Ronaldo did - to focus on their physical ability just as much as their technique. I see it even in players like Garnacho & Mainoo today - they utilise power both mentally and physically just as much as technique.
I don't doubt Xavi, Iniesta's, Messi's legendary status ever in football - but if they had played in the PL for a significant period ever in their career - they would have had to add a touch of physicality to their every day routine and every match & because of that they would become slightly altered versions of the players we have seen of them today. They could have even been better versions of themselves for all we know.
For example, Xavi would have had to play a bit more like Mainoo slide tackling, making last ditch tackles in the PL(I'm sure people have seen this) whilst also being Manchester United's tempo setter this season - Mainoo has been used both as the sole CDM in matches whilst also playing as the tempo setter/playmaker in front of a CDM like Casemiro in other games - both variations of a single player, why?
Because he has physicality. There is different quantities & qualities of physicality in different leagues, just as much as there is different qualities & quantities of technique in different leagues aswell.
Don't underate physicality and don't overrate technicality.
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Bale easily. Salah is super talented but Bale was a tier above. He sat in the tier just below Ronaldo and Messi, alongside Neymar at his prime.
His final season at Spurs from a footballing perspective is better than anything Salah has produced in a season.
His final season at Spurs from a footballing perspective is better than anything Salah has produced in a season.
Was it, though? Salah's first season was the most productive season of any player ever playing in the PL at the time (and still is if you remove penalties). He was brilliant in the CL, scored in more PL games than any other player have done (in the 38 games era, at leat), he scored at a high rate against the other top 6 teams and was generally great. If Liverpool just won that CL final he would have been properly in the running for the Balon D'Or that year.
Bale might have scored more screamers, but he wasn't better that season than Salah was in 17/18.
on top of that, Salah had 10 assists compared to Bale's 4. so there's that.
The funniest thing is all the people saying ‘and it’s not even close’ when the comments in the thread are completely divided and suggest it is, in fact, close.
Nope. Last season at Tottenham, when he was exploding, he was unstoppable. 40 yards out. Anywhere.
Which ones in particular? Salah's overall game is pretty average, great goal scorer though.
His passing and first touch are completely different dimension to Bale for a start. Bale struggled with shit first touch for his entire time in Spain ffs, have you actually watched him?
Physicality is not talent.
Ronaldo played for the best teams in the 3 leagues and even in Saudi not for some mediocre teams. Don't confuse greatness for innate talent.
What planet are you on
Yes, but have you thought about it from a footballing perspective?
It's true. I mean, his technique was obviously good in comparison to the average footballer, but it was very questionable for a top player. His first touch and short passes were very erratic for a Real Madrid attacking player.What planet are you on
What is the peak Salah? He’s not as electric one-on-one now but he’s a much better playmaker than before.
Yep. Other than ball striking, Salah's technical skill is much more consistent
It's not that he's better now, they ask him to do that more now
It is interesting that the playing styles of these two players can be roughly described as Messi-lite and Ronaldo-lite.
Salah is like a poor man's Messi and Bale is like a poor man's Ronaldo.
Bale is the better long shooter, free kick taker, crosser, defender, header, counter-attacker, dribbler over long distances. Physically, Bale is the fastest and very strong.
Bale is more versatile positionally and tactically - has successfully played at LB, LW, RW, CF, AM, Second Striker over the course of his career.
Salah's skillset is clearly narrower and Bale has more attributes in his locker.
In league format, Salah has been better due to his availability and consistency. In the CL, Bale has had the big iconic moments consistently. Salah is the better league player while Bale is the better cup player. In International Football, Bale's impact for Wales overpowers what Salah has done for Egypt.
Salah is like a poor man's Messi and Bale is like a poor man's Ronaldo.
I'd argue Bale is the more complete player overall. Salah is a better finisher, final ball passer and dribbler in tight spaces.
Bale is the better long shooter, free kick taker, crosser, defender, header, counter-attacker, dribbler over long distances. Physically, Bale is the fastest and very strong.
Bale is more versatile positionally and tactically - has successfully played at LB, LW, RW, CF, AM, Second Striker over the course of his career.
Salah's skillset is clearly narrower and Bale has more attributes in his locker.
In league format, Salah has been better due to his availability and consistency. In the CL, Bale has had the big iconic moments consistently. Salah is the better league player while Bale is the better cup player. In International Football, Bale's impact for Wales overpowers what Salah has done for Egypt.
I like how you keep repeating Bale’s areas of strength to make him appear better. Counter attacker, dribbler over long distances, are the same really. Heading and long range shooting is fine but Salah scores more regardless of how he does it.It is interesting that the playing styles of these two players can be roughly described as Messi-lite and Ronaldo-lite.
Salah is like a poor man's Messi and Bale is like a poor man's Ronaldo.
I'd argue Bale is the more complete player overall. Salah is a better finisher, final ball passer and dribbler in tight spaces.
Bale is the better long shooter, free kick taker, crosser, defender, header, counter-attacker, dribbler over long distances. Physically, Bale is the fastest and very strong.
Bale is more versatile positionally and tactically - has successfully played at LB, LW, RW, CF, AM, Second Striker over the course of his career.
Salah's skillset is clearly narrower and Bale has more attributes in his locker.
In league format, Salah has been better due to his availability and consistency. In the CL, Bale has had the big iconic moments consistently. Salah is the better league player while Bale is the better cup player. In International Football, Bale's impact for Wales overpowers what Salah has done for Egypt.
Anyway completeness isn’t the main thing. Salah is simply a better footballer and by a good bit too. He’s a better goal scorer, better creator / passer, better dribbler and hence more consistent. Poor man’s Messi being better than poor man’s Ronaldo makes sense too as there’s quite a gap between those two as well.
Bale can kick a ball further and run quicker in a straight line. Its obviously him.
Not sure that's true btw. Salah made a young and fit Varane look like Maguire
I am surprised he didn't say Bale was clearly better golfer, and has better golf technique.
Salah is the miserable, "my last full meal was at Christmas and I'm wearing the same pants since then" man's Messi though. Bale is just the poor man's Ronaldo.
Salah being a poor man's Messi is literally just left footed, not tall, speedy low center of gravity forward though
He plays closer to Cristiano than Messi
Griezmann and Neymar, those are the poor man's Messis. Not all that poor either
He plays closer to Cristiano than Messi
Griezmann and Neymar, those are the poor man's Messis. Not all that poor either
Okay whatever that means
Right so long range shots that need physicality is not talent.
Got you!
Every CDM & CB who has physicality is not talent
It's like the Haaland is shit because he doesn't play like Messi that some people believe!
Literally sliding tackles is not talent.
Holding defenders off and playing your back to goal is not talent.
Powerful headers is not talent!
Rubbish sorry.
Ronaldo played for top clubs and dominated.
Other players did shit all like trying to win the CL with teams in other leagues like Neymar & Messi at PSG and arguably had worse seasons than normal in these weaker leagues aswell whilst playing in those top clubs of the league aswell.
Strength & power is a talent that has to be built just like technique. You don't just get born with this ability or technique to play football, it's something that has to be built over time.
I'd argue most of the German Legends had Power and Strength just as much or more so than technique. Schweinsteiger, Lother Mathaus, Ballack, Kahn, Neurer, Beckenbauer, Muller etc.
Again because its ultimately a dynamic of certain leagues, some have more physicality and some have more technicality.
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Salah is a far better footballer. Bale was all about pace, and for having scored one of the best goals in the biggest game in club football he had a habit of ghosting in a lot of big games too. Think it’s part of the reason Madrid fans never really liked him much.
Neymar is levels clear of Bale. They're not close at all.
Nah, he just never really bothered to connect with madridismo, didn't work the media to get them on his side, and between his price tag, injuries, and his presence relegating fan favourite Isco to the bench - made worse by the team often being exceptional in his absence with Isco on the pitch, this cloud of negativity formed around his figure fanned by the media and his agent, and then he had the genius idea of pulling that wales, golf, madrid banner and that was that