NBA 2023-2024

charlton66 · Apr 24, 2024

Kevin said:
That year when he won with Kyrie vs a stacked warriors, getting trash talked by their players and then showing up with two 40+ pointers after to eventually go from 0-3 to 4-3 was pretty good no? Wasn't Kyrie still quite young and not the superstar he went on to become later? He was certainly good but surely even Jordan's rings have come with at least another great player in his team.

I'm guessing you're talking about James here, and not Durant since KD has never beaten the Warriors. I'm also guessing you're referring to 2016 when the Cavs came back from 3-1 not 3-0. Also while Kyrie was young in 2016, he was also the number 1 overall draft pick in 2011, so definitely not a scrub (still a great performance though - no doubt).

As to not winning without another great player on your team; 3 players have won multiple Championships without a top 75 team mate in the last 60 years.

Kobe Bryant
Tim Duncan
Stephen Curry.

So it can be done.

JPRouve · Apr 24, 2024

charlton66 said:
I'm guessing you're talking about James here, and not Durant since KD has never beaten the Warriors. I'm also guessing you're referring to 2016 when the Cavs came back from 3-1 not 3-0. Also while Kyrie was young in 2016, he was also the number 1 overall draft pick in 2011, so definitely not a scrub (still a great performance though - no doubt).

As to not winning without another great player on your team; 3 players have won multiple Championships without a top 75 team mate in the last 60 years.

Kobe Bryant
Tim Duncan
Stephen Curry.

So it can be done.

For Duncan which championship was without a top 75 teammate? In fact I have the same question for Bryant.

charlton66 · Apr 24, 2024

JPRouve said:
For Duncan which championship was without a top 75 teammate? In fact I have the same question for Bryant.

Tim Duncan (2005, 2007).
Kobe Bryant (2009, 2010).

JPRouve · Apr 24, 2024

charlton66 said:
Tim Duncan (2005, 2007).
Kobe Bryant (2009, 2010).

So Parker and Ginobili weren't Top 75 players? And Pau Gasol wasn't a top 75 player either?

It's a genuine question, I don't think that I could go 50 let alone 75 players before having to name these three.

charlton66 · Apr 24, 2024

JPRouve said:
So Parker and Ginobili weren't Top 75 players? And Pau Gasol wasn't a top 75 player either?

It's a genuine question, I don't think that I could go 50 let alone 75 players before having to name these three.

According to the NBA's 75th Anniversary team, they were not. I think prime Klay would have a case for inclusion as well to be honest.

JPRouve · Apr 24, 2024

charlton66 said:
According to the NBA's 75th Anniversary team, they were not. I think prime Klay would have a case for inclusion as well.

You meant all time? That makes more sense, it's a bad way of looking at it but the context is not as wild as I imagined.

MrMarcello · Apr 24, 2024

JPRouve said:
So Parker and Ginobili weren't Top 75 players? And Pau Gasol wasn't a top 75 player either?

It's a genuine question, I don't think that I could go 50 let alone 75 players before having to name these three.

That top 75 is an all-time ranking, and doesn't present the actual reality of the then current-day ranking against its actual peers. It's a subjective ranking used to make players lesser or greater I suppose. In reality, Duncan had two other top 20-25 players* at the time in Ginobli and Parker and Kobe had a legit top 10-15 player at the time in Gasol. Yeah, they're not all-time top 75 but they were in the elite/star tier at their time against their era peers.

*2003 - I would say that David Robinson version was almost finished as a quality player, no longer elite by any stretch. 1999 Robinson was easily a top 20 player in the league at the time.

charlton66 · Apr 24, 2024

JPRouve said:
You meant all time? That makes more sense, it's a bad way of looking at it but the context is not as wild as I imagined.

I agree, it was just a nugget of information I happened to be aware of. Talking about Nuggets, last year's Championship team was the first team to win a chip without a single top 75 player on its roster in the modern NBA (last 60 years).

JPRouve · Apr 24, 2024

MrMarcello said:
That top 75 is an all-time ranking, and doesn't present the actual reality of the then current-day ranking against its actual peers. It's a subjective ranking used to make players lesser or greater I suppose. In reality, Duncan had two other top 20-25 players* at the time in Ginobli and Parker and Kobe had a legit top 10-15 player at the time in Gasol. Yeah, they're not all-time top 75 but they were in the elite/star tier at their time against their era peers.

*2003 - I would say that David Robinson version was almost finished as a quality player, no longer elite by any stretch. 1999 Robinson was easily a top 20 player in the league at the time.

That's what I had in mind, it didn't occur to me that Charlton was talking about the all-time ranking.

charlton66 said:
I agree, it was just a nugget of information I happened to be aware of. Talking about Nuggets, last year's Championship team was the first team to win a chip without a single top 75 player on its roster.

It's actually interesting, I just went in a different direction. For the Nuggets it's just plain weird, I don't know how Gordon and Murray aren't top 75 players, the level of internal politics in the NBA is just crazy.

charlton66 · Apr 24, 2024

JPRouve said:
That's what I had in mind, it didn't occur to me that Charlton was talking about the all-time ranking.

It's actually interesting, I just went in a different direction. For the Nuggets it's just plain weird, I don't know how Gordon and Murray aren't top 75 players, the level of internal politics in the NBA is just crazy.

The list is already dated and it's less than 3 years old. Even when it was put out, how Dame Lillard got on it amazed me.

...and no Nikola Jokic. Even when it was put out he'd already won an MVP. His omission is just getting worse by the day.

JPRouve · Apr 24, 2024

charlton66 said:
The list is already dated and it's less than 3 years old. Even when it was put out, how Dame Lillard got on it amazed me.

...and no Nikola Jokic. Even when it was put out he'd already won an MVP. His omission is just getting worse by the day.

I remember seeing it and violently rolling my eyes. I had to check it, they have Westbrook, Harden and AD on it.

Kevin · Apr 24, 2024

charlton66 said:
I'm guessing you're talking about James here, and not Durant since KD has never beaten the Warriors. I'm also guessing you're referring to 2016 when the Cavs came back from 3-1 not 3-0. Also while Kyrie was young in 2016, he was also the number 1 overall draft pick in 2011, so definitely not a scrub (still a great performance though - no doubt).

As to not winning without another great player on your team; 3 players have won multiple Championships without a top 75 team mate in the last 60 years.

Kobe Bryant
Tim Duncan
Stephen Curry.

So it can be done.

Yeah I was mainly talking about you implying Lebron was surrounding himself with a super team like KD whenever he won a ring. He did win one without IMO and it was a legendary comeback against a 'superteam'.

charlton66 · Apr 24, 2024

JPRouve said:
I remember seeing it and violently rolling my eyes. I had to check it, they have Westbrook, Harden and AD on it.

I could make a case for those 3 since 2 of them have won MVPs and AD has got a Championship. How Lillard got on the list though, just baffles me completely. No awards, no Championships and an extremely mediocre playoff career.

JPRouve · Apr 24, 2024

charlton66 said:
I could make a case for those 3 since 2 of them have won MVPs and AD has got a Championship. How Lillard got on the list though, just baffles me completely. No awards, no Championships and an extremely mediocre playoff career.

That's fair, but I would have none of them above Jokic in 2022.

Charlie Foley · Apr 24, 2024

charlton66 said:
The list is already dated and it's less than 3 years old. Even when it was put out, how Dame Lillard got on it amazed me.

...and no Nikola Jokic. Even when it was put out he'd already won an MVP. His omission is just getting worse by the day.

Looking at this and factoring in Embiid last year 36 players have won it. It was 35 at the time of the 75th anniversary team. I need to double check but curious how many other MVP winners didn’t get on, if any.

JPRouve · Apr 24, 2024

Charlie Foley said:
Looking at this and factoring in Embiid last year 36 players have won it. It was 35 at the time of the 75th anniversary team. I need to double check but curious how many other MVP winners didn’t get on, if any.

If I'm not mistaken Rose is the only one missing.

SmallCaine · Apr 24, 2024

Kevin said:
Yeah I was mainly talking about you implying Lebron was surrounding himself with a super team like KD whenever he won a ring. He did win one without IMO and it was a legendary comeback against a 'superteam'.

Lebron fans are on another level, klay and draymond alongside curry make warriors a super team but kyrie and love are what scrubs?

Kevin · Apr 24, 2024

SmallCaine said:
Lebron fans are on another level, klay and draymond alongside curry make warriors a super team but kyrie and love are what scrubs?

Did I get your little balls in a twist for daring to suggest he had ONE good championship without a superteam? And came back spectacularly against the reigning champions who were already widely praised as a superb team revolutionizing the way to play basketball and in the second year of the eventual dynasty they would leave? Were the cavs not the underdogs and golden state the team to beat at the time?

I didn’t say anything that outlandish.

charlton66 · Apr 24, 2024

Kevin said:
Did I get your little balls in a twist for daring to suggest he had ONE good championship without a superteam? And came back spectacularly against the reigning champions who were already widely praised as a superb team revolutionizing the way to play basketball and in the second year of the eventual dynasty they would leave? Were the cavs not the underdogs and golden state the team to beat at the time?

I didn’t say anything that outlandish.

You didn't, but there were extenuating circumstances for the comeback. Draymond getting suspended for one, but Curry being injured for most of the series was the big one. If James had have been carrying similar injuries he would have done his post game pressers with casts on both legs. Steph instead, underplayed it all, but the injuries were bad enough to make him pull out of being considered for the 2016 Olympic team.

Kevin · Apr 24, 2024

charlton66 said:
You didn't, but there were extenuating circumstances for the comeback. Draymond getting suspended for one, but Curry being injured for most of the series was the big one. If James had have been carrying similar injuries he would have done his post game pressers with casts on both legs. Steph instead, underplayed it all, but the injuries were bad enough to make him pull out of being considered for the 2016 Olympic team.

To be honest I barely watch basketball and see it as a little sideshow (one of the sports I watch on the side if I have time). I just remembered loving the story of the underdog coming back to win 4-3 after some warrior players were cocksure in some interviews at 2 or 3-0 can’t remember.

That’s why I used so many question marks in my posts. Still feel like that was a hard fought and well deserved championship and should not be ranked as “golliath (super)team swats away underdog” win for Lebron as cavs weren’t that. He deserves credit for that one.

charlton66 · Apr 24, 2024

Kevin said:
To be honest I barely watch basketball and see it as a little sideshow (one of the sports I watch on the side if I have time). I just remembered loving the story of the underdog coming back to win 4-3 after some warrior players were cocksure in some interviews at 2 or 3-0 can’t remember.

That’s why I used so many question marks in my posts. Still feel like that was a hard fought and well deserved championship and should not be ranked as “golliath (super)team swats away underdog” win for Lebron as cavs weren’t that. He deserves credit for that one.

I agree, that's why I said it was a great performance in my 1st post on the subject. But there were extenuating circumstances. Both things can be true

Charlie Foley · Apr 24, 2024

Kevin said:
That year when he won with Kyrie vs a stacked warriors, getting trash talked by their players and then showing up with two 40+ pointers after to eventually go from 0-3 to 4-3 was pretty good no? Wasn't Kyrie still quite young and not the superstar he went on to become later? He was certainly good but surely even Jordan's rings have come with at least another great player in his team.

He was talking about KD

elmo · Apr 24, 2024

Kevin said:
To be honest I barely watch basketball and see it as a little sideshow (one of the sports I watch on the side if I have time). I just remembered loving the story of the underdog coming back to win 4-3 after some warrior players were cocksure in some interviews at 2 or 3-0 can’t remember.

That’s why I used so many question marks in my posts. Still feel like that was a hard fought and well deserved championship and should not be ranked as “golliath (super)team swats away underdog” win for Lebron as cavs weren’t that. He deserves credit for that one.

It was hard fought by the refs. They were fighting all series to give the Cavs the advantage. Delladova was basically fouling the shit out of Curry every play but it was deemed legal.

Start watching games and stop jerking off media reports. The media jerks off every thing LeBron does and doesn’t call out his bullshit.

And Kyrie’s stint at Cavs was arguably his best period, calling him not a superstar during that time just shows how little you know what you’re talking about.

JPRouve · Apr 24, 2024

Also Lebron James joining Kyrie Irving and the Cavs adding Kevin Love were both superteam moves.

Kevin · Apr 24, 2024

So the conclusion is: Lebron is evil and never won a ring fairly :lol:

Kevin Love and Irving vs Warrios was ez, file it under Lebron superteam wipes dwarves with help of corrupt refs.

Yeah I think I'll go with @charlton66 on this, watches NBA and much more balanced view.

Charlie Foley · Apr 24, 2024

JPRouve said:
If I'm not mistaken Rose is the only one missing.

Thanks. Speaking of young MVPs and Kevin Love, I just found out Wes Unseld was Kevin Love’s godfather (Unseld played with Stan Love)

this is the greatest rabbit hole ever.

Stan Love’s brother is Mike Love of the Beach Boys, their cousins being Dennis, Carl, and Brian Wilson of the same band. Stan was Brian’s bodyguard for a bit, and once when Dennis, who was connected to Charles Manson(!) convinced Brian to buy a ton of cocaine, Stan along with another bodyguard Rocky Pamplin beat Dennis up at his house.

Charlie Foley · Apr 24, 2024

Kevin said:
So the conclusion is: Lebron is evil and never won a ring fairly

And your little balls are in a twist. Or something

Kevin · Apr 24, 2024

Charlie Foley said:
And your little balls are in a twist. Or something

Sorry I ignored your earlier post, I thought it was dumb. Don't be angry. Here I replied.

elmo · Apr 24, 2024

If you’re going to shit post, at least put some effort instead of making shit up about how tough LeBron has it.

At least 50% of LeBron’s difficulty is from the self manufactured drama he brings about with him. He’s a greater drama queen than he is a player which is amazing because he’s a fecking great player.

Kevin said:
So the conclusion is: Lebron is evil and never won a ring fairly Kevin Love and Irving vs Warrios was ez, file it under Lebron superteam wipes dwarves with help of corrupt refs.

Yeah I think I'll go with @charlton66 on this, watches NBA and much more balanced view.

JPRouve · Apr 24, 2024

Kevin said:
So the conclusion is: Lebron is evil and never won a ring fairly Kevin Love and Irving vs Warrios was ez, file it under Lebron superteam wipes dwarves with help of corrupt refs.

Yeah I think I'll go with @charlton66 on this, watches NBA and much more balanced view.

Why would that be the conclusion about James?

Kevin · Apr 24, 2024

elmo said:
If you’re going to shit post, at least put some effort instead of making shit up about how tough LeBron has it.

At least 50% of LeBron’s difficulty is from the self manufactured drama he brings about with him. He’s a greater drama queen than he is a player which is amazing because he’s a fecking great player.

I said Lebron won ONE good championship and worked hard for it. You're acting like I've said "lol lebron carried and is the best ever lulz". Somehow that leads to alot of frustration it seems. That's not my problem, the problem might be a basketball player is living rent free in your head.

Charlie Foley · Apr 24, 2024

Kevin said:
Sorry I ignored your earlier post, I thought it was dumb. Don't be angry. Here I replied.

Mate there’s no need to be so rattled, it’s just a basketball discussion.

EDIT: I went back to make sure I haven’t responded to you with something else-all I said was @charlton66 was talking about KD…am I missing another post, why would that make me angry :lol:

elmo · Apr 24, 2024

Charlie Foley said:
Thanks. Speaking of young MVPs and Kevin Love, I just found out Wes Unseld was Kevin Love’s godfather (Unseld played with Stan Love)

this is the greatest rabbit hole ever.

Stan Love’s brother is Mike Love of the Beach Boys, their cousins being Dennis, Carl, and Brian Wilson of the same band. Stan was Brian’s bodyguard for a bit, and once when Dennis, who was connected to Charles Manson(!) convinced Brian to buy a ton of cocaine, Stan along with another bodyguard Rocky Pamplin beat Dennis up at his house.

I just found out today that Larry Hughes was teammates in college with Tatum’s father and he’s actually Tatum’s god father :lol:

JPRouve · Apr 24, 2024

Kevin said:
I said Lebron won ONE good championship and worked hard for it. You're acting like I've said "lol lebron carried and is the best ever lulz". Somehow that leads to alot of frustration it seems. That's not my problem, the problem might be a basketball player is living rent free in your head.

Even that is wrong, he won more than one good championship and he worked hard for all of them. He was just in superteam for all of them, now he was by some distance the best player.

Kevin · Apr 24, 2024

JPRouve said:
Even that is wrong, he won more than one good championship and he worked hard for all of them. He was just not in superteam for all of them, now he was by some distance the best player.

Ah good, even better then. There you go, he's won multiple championships without relying on being on a superteam. Delighted.

elmo · Apr 24, 2024

Kevin said:
I said Lebron won ONE good championship and worked hard for it. You're acting like I've said "lol lebron carried and is the best ever lulz". Somehow that leads to alot of frustration it seems. That's not my problem, the problem might be a basketball player is living rent free in your head.

And I’m saying you’re posting shit because you don’t even know what actually happens beyond media narratives. Come back and post when you actually start watching games.

Charlie Foley · Apr 24, 2024

JPRouve said:
Even that is wrong, he won more than one good championship and he worked hard for all of them. He was just not in superteam for all of them, now he was by some distance the best player.

2013 finals was an epic back and forth too, for one thing

Also, not quite the discussion, but I hate how championship or bust these discussions are sometimes: he was just pretty spectacular and worked his ass off all those years he got to the finals and just ran into the dubs juggernaut (or the Spurs in 2014)

Kevin · Apr 24, 2024

Charlie Foley said:
Mate there’s no need to be so rattled, it’s just a basketball discussion.

EDIT: I went back to make sure I haven’t responded to you with something else-all I said was @charlton66 was talking about KD…am I missing another post, why would that make me angry

Don't worry about it. Apology accepted.

Charlie Foley · Apr 24, 2024

elmo said:
I just found out today that Larry Hughes was teammates in college with Tatum’s father and he’s actually Tatum’s god father

What

Kevin · Apr 24, 2024

elmo said:
And I’m saying you’re posting shit because you don’t even know what actually happens beyond media narratives. Come back and post when you actually start watching games.

Nah, I am seeing enough people who do watch basketball agreeing with me on his heroics. It looks like I underrated him. He gained a fan in me, going to follow him on twitter now. Followed lakers on reddit now.

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