‘We are not a possession team’...

Lots of teams have players that do individual brilliance, doesn't mean they can play possession football. You need a certain type of player who's technically gifted to play it.
I hope you're joking.
You need the right coaching setup to play possession football, not the right players. Possession football is not some outerworldly new and fecking genius way of playing the game that suddenly needs certain type of players.
LVG made the likes of Cleverly, CBJ, Depay and Januzaj play possession football. All you need is a decent manager as 95% of players can play possession based football with 3-4 months of proper coaching.
 
I'm still no closer to knowing what sort of team we are. We buy better players to improve, but at the core of our side, I'm not sure what we're truly doing.
Yeah, this is sort of where I'm at. 'Give it to Bruno' is the most consistent thing in our football.
 
Any team playing for top 4 football is a possession team by default.

If you happen to be one of those teams but are in fact poor with possession it just means you're a poorly coached one.
 
I hope you're joking.
You need the right coaching setup to play possession football, not the right players. Possession football is not some outerworldly new and fecking genius way of playing the game that suddenly needs certain type of players.
LVG made the likes of Cleverly, CBJ, Depay and Januzaj play possession football. All you need is a decent manager as 95% of players can play possession based football with 3-4 months of proper coaching.
He failed to get us playing possession football. Fo you think any of our players would be in the City first team? Maybe Shaw.
 
He failed to get us playing possession football. Fo you think any of our players would be in the City first team? Maybe Shaw.
He failed to get us scoring from playing possession football, that;s something entirely different.
And c'mon, quite a few of our players will get into a Pep team: Shaw, Pogba, Bruno, DVB, Maguire.
 
He failed to get us scoring from playing possession football, that;s something entirely different.
And c'mon, quite a few of our players will get into a Pep team: Shaw, Pogba, Bruno, DVB, Maguire.
You think Pep would ever want Pogba? Have you ever watched his team's play? He's the type of player he's avoided.

We failed at possession football.
 
We are coached just not enough variety. Every time we get the ball the most played pass from the back is long to the left wing and whoever is on there who is a runner. That must be a coached tactic. Everything else is up to the players wherever the ball breaks.
In fact I would bet under Ole this last season is as good as it gets. Will he improve our league position - No. Will he win Ch Lge - No. His only hope is a domestic cup which is 50/50.
If hes still here after next season (which if he gets 4th I think he will be under the glazers), he will have a major problem with Bruno staying I think.
 
This is why I want the entire coaching staff binned.

Buying new players is just a band-aid.
Who would you bring in? I think we need to have a ready-made replacement for Ole if we sack him. Conte maybe?
 
The problem @Rozay is our inability to play as a collective. Too reliant/indulging of individuals because of the G/A, whilst ignoring everything negative in their game.
I fully recall Pep reducing the role of Aguero at City because he doesn’t make the team play better. As an individual he will give great numbers but what about when he is stifled. So, brought in Jesus a lesser player but makes everyone around him look good.
We need players in midfield that serve as a glue not the highlights reel types. Doesn’t matter whether our game is based around quick transitions but all facets need satisfying because in a 90mins you deal with various situations.
A reason am not obsessed with big name players in certain roles. Nor do I frown at lesser name players without assessing their playing style/benefit to the team. Like how important Lallana was to Liverpool in getting results in tight games last season. But, most of us won’t want a player like that at United because he is not celebrated enough or their YouTube highlights don’t make great viewing. VDB falls under that same category, whilst people are busy questioning his impact I personal believe he made players around him look better.
 
We struggled with possession when we had it, today is a perfect example of us not being good enough to play that style.
Possession football is not just about having the ball but being able to use it.
Or creating pathways to move the ball effectively be it through runners moving players out of position, quick one-two touch interplay passes to quick thinking.
 
Who thinks we are? We are only a possession team because teams allow it.
Yep, they allow us because they know we’ll become toothless. Like letting Rashford have the ball with no space to sprint into or give AWB a free run of things.
 
Yes. Our ball retention is mediocre, at best. That's not a necessity even for a team that is built for quick transitions.
We are expected to dominate the ball most games so having poor retention will always be a problem. Until we become better at moving the ball, we can forget about being a top team.
 
We are expected to dominate the ball most games so having poor retention will always be a problem. Until we become better at moving the ball, we can forget about being a top team.
Yes. What I meant was that even if we want to play quick, direct football, it doesn't inevitably follow that we have to be shite at ball retention. Because as you say, as long as we are shite at it, we're not going to achieve anything meaningful.
 
The problem @Rozay is our inability to play as a collective. Too reliant/indulging of individuals because of the G/A, whilst ignoring everything negative in their game.
I fully recall Pep reducing the role of Aguero at City because he doesn’t make the team play better. As an individual he will give great numbers but what about when he is stifled. So, brought in Jesus a lesser player but makes everyone around him look good.
We need players in midfield that serve as a glue not the highlights reel types. Doesn’t matter whether our game is based around quick transitions but all facets need satisfying because in a 90mins you deal with various situations.
A reason am not obsessed with big name players in certain roles. Nor do I frown at lesser name players without assessing their playing style/benefit to the team. Like how important Lallana was to Liverpool in getting results in tight games last season. But, most of us won’t want a player like that at United because he is not celebrated enough or their YouTube highlights don’t make great viewing. VDB falls under that same category, whilst people are busy questioning his impact I personal believe he made players around him look better.

I agree, this is what I’ve been saying all along. To me, a midfield is as much a single machine as it is 3 players. However, with us, it seems to be a wish to have 3 different parts, and simply ask them to have game changing moments somehow. Bruno to score or assist. Pogba to dribble or play a ridiculous, low probability pass. McTominay or Fred to have game saving tackles. But no expectation on their relationship with each other when we have the ball.

This is why I despair at all of this ‘we need to buy x and y’ stuff. For us to win the league by buying players, we would need to buy players about 30% better than all the players our rivals have. If they are generally around the same level, I’d expect us to fall short. When we are saying all season ‘great comeback etc but we can’t keep playing like that’, it’s because we know deep down, even when getting results, we will be found out soon enough.

I agree with you on not being obsessed with big names, and I’ve made the Aguero/Jesus comparison too. Our current 3 are built on principles that will only take us so far. They are not built to retain the ball, move it at speed and one touch. This ‘we are not a possession team’ stuff is trotted out as mitigation for us being unable to pass the ball. If we are not then we need to be, United Way or not. Football has moved on from Fergie. Our rivals are not starting with Jesper Gronkjaer or whoever anymore.

I’d gladly see Bruno, Pogba, Scott all replaced with, for example, Grealish, Barella and De Jong - regardless of whether anyone thinks those players are as good or not. I’m tired of this.

In hindsight, perhaps Van Gaal was not allowed the time to complete his work as he was trying to deprogramme this United Way football from us and change our relationship with the football.
 
Let’s be honest. Bruno and Pogba are a problem in the team. Individually both are clearly tremendously talented players but they don’t move in intelligent ways or quick enough. We have 3 players that pass and move to give a player on the ball a better option and those 3 are Mata, VDB and Fred.(guessing in part that’s why Pep wanted Fred)

All the rest stand and watch the ball, or when they receive it hold on to it for too long looking for a miracle pass. It just doesn’t work and why can’t we be both? A team that can keep the ball and move it about well creating opening with fast 1 touch passing and then be able to counter attack when we need to? I mean Man City “ the possesion” team have scored some absolute crackers counter attacking.

The truth is if you really want to be a good team you should be able to do both and right now the make up of the team or the way it plays I don’t think will be good enough to make us proper challengers and a team that is properly feared.
 
I'd have to agree.

Simple things such as moving into space, taking a first in the right direction, controlling the ball, passing the ball with the correct speed and weight are non existent in the play.

My biggest gripe is with the quality of the passing. Players too often recieve the passes either bobbly, smashed at them knee high, or in that area that requires a jump to chest it down because it too low for a header and too high to take it on the chest.

Options and choices to the player on the ball are poor, if your on the ball, you shouldn't have to take 4/5/6 touches before you spot a pass.

Too many of the players (Fred/Pogba/Rashford) play straight on and recieve the ball flat, limits their option when they recieve the the ball.
 


United's attacking "shape"

Too many brain-dead footballers only interested in boosting their G/A and not enough technicians. Too bad
 
Let’s be honest. Bruno and Pogba are a problem in the team. Individually both are clearly tremendously talented players but they don’t move in intelligent ways or quick enough. We have 3 players that pass and move to give a player on the ball a better option and those 3 are Mata, VDB and Fred.(guessing in part that’s why Pep wanted Fred)

All the rest stand and watch the ball, or when they receive it hold on to it for too long looking for a miracle pass. It just doesn’t work and why can’t we be both? A team that can keep the ball and move it about well creating opening with fast 1 touch passing and then be able to counter attack when we need to? I mean Man City “ the possesion” team have scored some absolute crackers counter attacking.

The truth is if you really want to be a good team you should be able to do both and right now the make up of the team or the way it plays I don’t think will be good enough to make us proper challengers and a team that is properly feared.
I agree with the above. Even though Bruno and Pogba would pass and move, our RW, LW, RB and LB are too static and they don't create space when compared with someone like Cavani. I think this is the main culprit on why we're playing so slow.
Starting with a pass and move from CB to CM will hit a wall when the ball would need to be quickly moved in the final third. To me it looks like an obvious coaching issue.
 
Yes, I absolutely agree. Controlling games with sustained possession, being able to keep the ball under pressure, carving teams open with combination play - these are things that all top teams must be good at, otherwise they have a ceiling, a limit.

Incidentally, this is why I despair when people rail against playing the ball out from the back. It's another essential part of the modern game, without which there will always be a limit to a team's potential.

Your fanbase still belong to the 90s and 2000s, still having this weird hung up about possession football.

It's almost as if being beaten by peak Barca result in a generation of Utd fans being against possession football.

Lots of teams have players that do individual brilliance, doesn't mean they can play possession football. You need a certain type of player who's technically gifted to play it.

Leeds under Bielsa disagrees.
 
We have always been a team who transition play quickly, especially under Fergie and Busby. But that didn't mean we didn't have the ability to control games via retainining possession. There's plenty of examples of us scoring goals where we have shown the ability to build the play at a high level under Fergie which culminated in us passing the opposition to death on numerous occasions.

Jurgen Klopp plays a similar style of football now to Fergie, along with quite a few other young coaches, but they still try and control the game via possession. And how you do that is having players who are good in the build up phase, who can evade pressure, break lines/spread play, whilst maintaining a high pass percentage. And it's not just the midfield that's the issue, but also players in attack who are below par in the build up/approach play, phase of the game, which is papered over by people who use stats, which ignores the player's short comings in the build up phase.
 
We have always been a team who transition play quickly, especially under Fergie and Busby. But that didn't mean we didn't have the ability to control games via retainining possession. There's plenty of examples of us scoring goals where we have shown the ability to build the play at a high level under Fergie which culminated in us passing the opposition to death on numerous occasions.

Jurgen Klopp plays a similar style of football now to Fergie, along with quite a few other young coaches, but they still try and control the game via possession. And how you do that is having players who are good in the build up phase, who can evade pressure, break lines/spread play, whilst maintaining a high pass percentage. And it's not just the midfield that's the issue, but also players in attack who are below par in the build up/approach play, phase of the game, which is papered over by people who use stats, which ignores the player's short comings in the build up phase.

Yep and to be honest I question if the individuals that use stats to defend certain players actually watched any our games. Since last nights was a big game, free and easy to access coverage so it might come as a surprise to them that what they saw is actually a typical performance without G/A to cover the cracks.