I'll have whatever you're smoking mate
“ If De Bruyne (£68m) has an off day, City have Mahrez (£61m), Sterling (£57m), Silva (£45m), Foden, Gundogan (£24m), & Ferran (£21m)
- Thread starter Wumminator
- Start date
Literally no one, but watch the posters start to deflect now...
Free attack.
Can't beat Palace....
Which has he made better? Shaw has always been a good player when not injured. Fred is still erratic same as McT. Bruno for burn out is way off form, Maquire/ linderof haven't improved and Martial, Greenwood and Rashford certainly haven't.
Is De Bruyne better than Bruno? Is Sterling better than Rashford? Is Gundogan better than Pogba or VDB? Is Ferran better than Greenwood? Is Mahrez better then on form Martial?
We have spent around 275 million. Of that roughly 35 million was on teenage talent not ready to make an impact.
We have raised roughly 100 million in that time.
This is a good way to think of it. This is the last game United played before Ole took over:
De Gea
Darmian,
Bailly,
Lindelof,
Young
Dalot,
Lingard,
Hererra,
Matic,
Rashford,
Lukaku
Fellaini, Mata and Martial made it off the bench. Jones didn’t.
Has the roughly 150 million pound net spend in that time been value for money?
If you are honestly arguing that Rashford, Shaw, Fred and McTominay haven’t improved under Ole you are actually insane.
Did we spend money on them yes or no? Is he using them yes or no? That’s nearly £100m basically down the drain.
Fee is irrelevant, more like market value and talent. One example is enough to illustrate that.
Messi, Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets were all free as well. But they were the best players in their respective positions in the last 20 years.
Yes,
Yes,
No (clearly better than VDB)
No but very odd question,
Pretty close.
Now add in Bernardo Silva, Aguero, Jesus and Foden against James, Cavani and Shoretime.
I would say one thing, we should consider our investments in youth with a grain of salt. 18-20 year olds are not ready to play for the team and we can't wait indefinitely for them to make an impact. We waited for Rashford, Martial, Lingard, McT and now with Greenwood. While none of them are bad players I don't feel like we can win the league with them anytime soon.
Need to add some age and experience to the team, more in the age group of Bruno of 25-28. So I was quite surprised when we blew a large wad of cash on Diallo. I think its stupid.
Need to add some age and experience to the team, more in the age group of Bruno of 25-28. So I was quite surprised when we blew a large wad of cash on Diallo. I think its stupid.
City are on another planet in every respect. And yes, we had players out. Our creative players. But if players aren't performing, you change them. Or you change tactics and formations. Ole does nothing except put them out there and hope. He doesn't try anything, he doesn't take risks. He just hopes that one of his players will pull off a piece of individual magic that will bail him out - as they've done countless times (all those one-goal wins - West Ham, Southampton, Villa, etc. We're suffering because Bruno is our main creative outlet and without Pogba, it's easier to mark him out of the game. But Ole is still culpable.
This was his response after the game:
'Of course, we had Shola or Amad, but which one of those five would you take off? That was my quandary in the last 10, 15 minutes. I felt Mason, Bruno and Marcus could get a goal.'
His reliance on his "trusted" players is criminal. And if they are not doing it, he just has no alternative solutions. And they're becoming less and less likely to do it, the more he drives them into the ground.
He has to trust his other players. He has to take risks. And he has to be more proactive in his in-game management and subs.
He's moved us forward but I fear he's reached his ceiling.
I think he needs to bring in better coaches.
This was his response after the game:
'Of course, we had Shola or Amad, but which one of those five would you take off? That was my quandary in the last 10, 15 minutes. I felt Mason, Bruno and Marcus could get a goal.'
His reliance on his "trusted" players is criminal. And if they are not doing it, he just has no alternative solutions. And they're becoming less and less likely to do it, the more he drives them into the ground.
He has to trust his other players. He has to take risks. And he has to be more proactive in his in-game management and subs.
He's moved us forward but I fear he's reached his ceiling.
I think he needs to bring in better coaches.
Your argument now is that the money on Pellestri and Diallo is down the drain.
Think before you type.
The tweet is ignoring strikers and specifically calling out a lack of creativity. If you want to include Aguero, he surely goes straight into the missing bin and then you're left comparing Jesus to Martial/Cavani.
If De Bruyne and Sterling (2015) were signed long before the market exploded, then the same goes for Martial and Mata. Pogba was signed the season after, which was still a year before the Neymar deal blew the lid off the transfer market. And if you wish, replace Mata and Fred with Diallo, it makes no difference to the central point.
All I'm saying is, including the fees, especially the paltry ones for Gundogan and Ferran, does him no favours, because it detracts from the core of his argument: lack of quality and depth in creative positions.
I agree with you. Why didn’t we use that money on a starter?
Its not but the irony is we could have got Maguire for £75m, its what Leicester originally asked and we refused to pay... then after much negotiation and wasting months, we argued them up to £80m, plus add -ons.
I think this tells us a lot about what's going on inside OT?
He spent nearly £100m this season & hasn’t used any of the players he’s bought. So yes, to Ole it may as well be money down the drain as he won’t be here for Diallo & Pellestri’s peak, so yes, he should have spent wiser.
I 100% blame the board. We practically made all our signings in the last day. It reeked of panic.
You don't strengthen your bench before you are happy with the starting XI. I refuse to believe that Ole is happy with that solution.
that short term thinking is what got us into this mess in the first place.
Greenwood, Williams and Dean, yes I do. The rest are either Mourinho’s finds or have played like one game. I’m not saying doesn’t give young players a chance, but that he plain and simply rarely takes risks to win us a tight game.
Long term isn't exactly getting us anywhere either. Point is, just like everything in life, you need balance.
So again, to make clear... Pep takes risks to win us a tight game by playing Delap once... Ole making Mason a starter doesn’t count as much?
Ah gotcha, so that's why we dropped points against Sheffield United, West Brom and Palace - we need to spend another £200 million. Why didn't anyone just say that in the first place? 
its got us currentlysecond in the league with a younger squad with more talent than we have in years.
yes but Ole is not going to last long enough to make use of the 2 young lads he’s brought in. Why sign van de Beek? Mata is an adequate backup number 10 & Bruno never gets injured. Why sign Telles? Why not just keep Dalot as backup who never plays & spend the money on Sancho, the player he actually wanted?
The tweet in the OP is overly simplistic, dumb, strawmanny, misleading, and missing the point.
Why are other teams in the prem regularly dropping points against them out of interest?Ah gotcha, so that's why we dropped points against Sheffield United, West Brom and Palace - we need to spend another £200 million. Why didn't anyone just say that in the first place?
I agree. It's not about how much they cost. Market value isn't perfect either because age, contract status etc comes into that.
Greenwood is worth far more than Townsend but isn't that much more effective as a PL forward at this stage in his career.
Because Lingard and Dalot have been here for years and were not good enough. Sancho might not have been available. The signing on fees and wages might make it a lot more money.
We spent 50 million roughly on first team players.
It is all about coaching and players form. Because these players aren't in form beside just a handful, the advantage will go to city. However, when in form and have better direction, our players will have the advantage. As seen when in form MMM was the best attack in Europe last season. Pogba and Bruno were also some of the best midfielders and our defense was among the best. We have the team and depth to compete, we just need the coaching and players to find back that form.
What is the point then?
my point is:
Man City have a much stronger squad than us and have handled the corona season much more effectively as a result. Despite having a worst first eleven than those around us and having a relatively low net spent Ole has improved the squad, the league position and average age of the club.
This is the problem Ole outers don't grasp.
It's like they think sacking him will make us better than them. They will still be backed by a man worth 40bn, with a superior squad and managed by arguably the greatest tactical head coach we've seen for decades if not ever.
Allegri out. Allegri isn't the answer. Allegri is no better than Ole and Jose coming to these forums soon. Absolute no doubt in my mind.
It's like they think sacking him will make us better than them. They will still be backed by a man worth 40bn, with a superior squad and managed by arguably the greatest tactical head coach we've seen for decades if not ever.
Allegri out. Allegri isn't the answer. Allegri is no better than Ole and Jose coming to these forums soon. Absolute no doubt in my mind.
It's easy. Which of the following players are currently playing to their potential?
De Bruyne
Mahrez
Sterling
Silva
Foden
Gundogan
Ferran
Now do the same for our players. It doesn't matter who the players are if the manager and coaches can't get the best out of them.
De Bruyne
Mahrez
Sterling
Silva
Foden
Gundogan
Ferran
Now do the same for our players. It doesn't matter who the players are if the manager and coaches can't get the best out of them.
Okay, you say we have the squad depth to compete. Can you just make a “second eleven” of city v united.
I think it would look like this:
Henderson,
Telles,
Bailly,
Tuanazebe,
Williams
Matic,
Fred,
VDB
james,
Greenwood,
Diallo
V
? ( I don’t actually know city’s back up keeper)
Zinchenko,
Laporte,
Ake,
Mendy
fernandino,
Bernardo Silva,
Foden
Aguero,
Jesus,
Torres
Can you do the same for players outside of City. Which players in the league are currently bang in form?
Salah,
Mane,
Firminio,
Kane,
Son,
Aubamayang,
Werner,
Abraham,
Pulisic,
The point is our squad is capable of doing better than it’s doing.
It’s capable of not having three consecutive 0-0 draws and barely a shot on target.
It’s capable of not losing to Sheffield fecking United.
Forget about City, I don’t care about them, I’m only bothered about United and in my view we’re limited by our manager.
I’ve not changed my mind on this in however long it’s been that he’s had the job, but no doubt I’ll be called knee jerk or whatever other soundbytes get thrown around on here.
What does that have to do with Manchester United, who have a better squad than 90% of the league? What I do know is that I do know is that going from topping the table by 3 to trailing by 14 points in the space of a few weeks is nothing short of shocking. Unless of course that's acceptable to you? By all means, feel free to tell me how many of West Brom's players walk in to our squad.
I think it's a tough pill for some to swallow. If simply changing the manager isn't the solution then it means that our problems run much deeper and it may take a really long time to fix. Given the extreme impatience often shown by the same posters, there's no wonder they double down and blame the manager.
I like to live in the real world. Our problems run so deep that no manager can fix this mess bar a freaky season of over-performances followed by an inevitable drop. Not with out current board and players.
The point is apart from City we have had a better season than every other squad. That is the point.