2004 - what a year

fontaine

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UCL - Porto wins
Euro Cup - Greece wtff
La Liga - Valencia wins
Libertadores - Once Caldas (its like Malmo winning UCL)
NBA - Pistons shock the world beating unbeatable Lakers

Some minor ones
Argentina League - Newells Old Boy champions, its like Everton winning epl
EPL - Arsenal wins, at the time it was normal, but looking back (HUAhuHauHUahahuAHU)
Brazil Cup - a very very small team upset the giants Flamengo in a packed Maracana stadium.
English Cup - Middlesbrough champions
 
Scholes goal Vs Porto was given offside - he was a yard on. I am still very bitter about that decision.
 
Think I also lost my virginity in 2004; what a year indeed!
 
Arsenal didn't just win, they finished the season undefeated. That isn't even a minor achievement.

Don't like praising Arsenal, but that's one worth drawing attention to.
 
fontaine said:
UCL - Porto wins
Euro Cup - Greece wtff
La Liga - Valencia wins
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CL - Poor year in Europe overall. One of Arsene's biggest failing was not winning that years CL. Was there for the taking.

Euro 2004 - The best team in the tournament was Czech Republic, with Portugal a close second. Greece were absolutely terrible to watch, and will be the most forgettable winners of the tournament, or the most infamous.

La Liga - That team had Aimar, Baraja, Vicente, Joaquin to name a few. Not sure why you're classing them as underdogs, especially since Brca were nowhere near the force they would become, and Madrid's galacticos were the most overrated team of superstars in the world at the time.

The Lakers weren't 'world beating' or 'unbeatable'.

Hope this helps.
 
Donaldo said:
La Liga - That team had Aimar, Baraja, Vicente, Joaquin to name a few. Not sure why you're classing them as underdogs, especially since Brca were nowhere near the force they would become, and Madrid's galacticos were the most overrated team of superstars in the world at the time.
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Yes - and one might add that they won it in 2002 as well. They were up and down - nowhere to be seen as defending champions in 2005, then back up to 3rd the following season.

Anyway, they were one of the best teams in La Liga in that general period *, and their 2004 win obviously isn't comparable to Greece or Porto at all.

As for the Pistons, I can't comment - stopped following the NBA long before that (I remember Bill Laimbeer, if that helps).

* And featured in two CL finals, of course, so to claim they were among the best teams in Europe in the early 00s wouldn't be wrong either.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Yes - and one might add that they won it in 2002 as well. They were up and down - nowhere to be seen as defending champions in 2005, then back up to 3rd the following season.

Anyway, they were one of the best teams in La Liga in that general period, and their 2004 win obviously isn't comparable to Greece or Porto at all.

As for the Pistons, I can't comment - stopped following the NBA long before that (I remember Bill Laimbeer, if that helps).
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Yep, they were a pretty good team to watch at times. Aimar pointed to the parallels between them and Atleti when facing the big teams in a recent interview.

As for the Lakers, they play only in the NBA, so can't be world-beaters. And they got beaten by the Pistons, so weren't unbeatable :P
 
SiRed said:
Scholes goal Vs Porto was given offside - he was a yard on. I am still very bitter about that decision.
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One wonders what might have happened to Jose Mourinho's career if that goal had been allowed and United knocked Porto out. He may not have built up the managerial resume he has now that has folk on here demanding he manages United next season.
 
I turned 10 and my mum made me an incredible Pokemon themed birthday cake.
 
JamesB__ said:
Yeah that's cool but what was your cake like?
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Honestly can't remember, but i do remember insisting on opening half of my presents the day before. Stupid thing to do and haven't done it since.
 
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SiRed said:
Scholes goal Vs Porto was given offside - he was a yard on. I am still very bitter about that decision.
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Stop sounding so bitter, luck and shit happens in football. We rode ours at times.
 
Mr Smith said:
Arsenal didn't just win, they finished the season undefeated. That isn't even a minor achievement.

Don't like praising Arsenal, but that's one worth drawing attention to.
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Undefeated in the league, hardly invincible though, they lost 6 games during that period, won nothing else, and a mighty 12 draws in the league

It's not a bad feat of course, though I much prefer our invincibles, when we went 33 straight games without defeat on route to a certain treble ;)
 
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Mitchell Nicholas said:
One wonders what might have happened to Jose Mourinho's career if that goal had been allowed and United knocked Porto out. He may not have built up the managerial resume he has now that has folk on here demanding he manages United next season.
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He would have gone on to great things of course. He's an extremely talented manager. It may have gone a slightly different route, but he would get there nonetheless. Last year was the first poor season Mourinho had, after more than 10 years of career.

Benfica - He was fairly good and only lost his place due to politics (new president already had a deal with a new manager, before Mourinho's skills could be gauged)
Leiria - Best position ever of the club. When he transfered to Porto they were ahead of us
Porto - Even if we excluded the CL win, he still won almost everything (apart from one Cup) else in his two years here. Our UEFA Cup run was great, we demolished Lazio (a very strong team at the time), overturned home losses by winning away, etc. And he built that team with peanuts. Rejects from Benfica, tranfers from relegation fodder from our league, etc.

He learned with some of the best (Sir Bobby Robson and Van Gaal) so obviously had good connections. I can't see why he wouldn't eventually get a chance a top european side anyway.


Also think the bitterness with that Scholes goal is quite exaggerated. It was a terrible terrible decision (couple of yards onside at least), but Porto still was the best team overall on both legs and it's not like it was a last minute robbery. You were still leading the tie after that, even if just by an away goal. Porto had more attacks, more shots and more goal chances in both ties. United should have done better. There's also no reason to assume United would easily win if that goal had been allowed. If Porto managed to score a winning goal with 1-0 we could have got it levelled with 2-0 as well, and who knows what would happen.
 
fontaine said:
UCL - Porto wins
Euro Cup - Greece wtff
La Liga - Valencia wins
Libertadores - Once Caldas (its like Malmo winning UCL)
NBA - Pistons shock the world beating unbeatable Lakers

Some minor ones
Argentina League - Newells Old Boy champions, its like Everton winning epl
EPL - Arsenal wins, at the time it was normal, but looking back (HUAhuHauHUahahuAHU)
Brazil Cup - a very very small team upset the giants Flamengo in a packed Maracana stadium.
English Cup - Middlesbrough champions
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Chauncey, Big Ben, Sheed, Rip Hamilton, and Prince...what a team. :drool:

The NBA hasn't been the same since.
 
Donaldo said:
CL - Poor year in Europe overall. One of Arsene's biggest failing was not winning that years CL. Was there for the taking.

Euro 2004 - The best team in the tournament was Czech Republic, with Portugal a close second. Greece were absolutely terrible to watch, and will be the most forgettable winners of the tournament, or the most infamous.

La Liga - That team had Aimar, Baraja, Vicente, Joaquin to name a few. Not sure why you're classing them as underdogs, especially since Brca were nowhere near the force they would become, and Madrid's galacticos were the most overrated team of superstars in the world at the time.

The Lakers weren't 'world beating' or 'unbeatable'.

Hope this helps.
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Agree about Czech Republic, they were amazing but nedved's injury in the semi-final really damaged their hopes.

But i do disagree about portugal though. Spain and England were better IMO but Spain was both unlucky and insecure. Portugal lost 2 times against Greece in their own stadium, if thats not an indication that Portugal wasnt that good I dont know then what it is.

Also, disagree about Greece. I dont think Atletico or Leceister winning their league its going to be forgettable too.
 
Arruda said:
Also think the bitterness with that Scholes goal is quite exaggerated. It was a terrible terrible decision (couple of yards onside at least), but Porto still was the best team overall on both legs and it's not like it was a last minute robbery. You were still leading the tie after that, even if just by an away goal. Porto had more attacks, more shots and more goal chances in both ties. United should have done better. There's also no reason to assume United would easily win if that goal had been allowed. If Porto managed to score a winning goal with 1-0 we could have got it levelled with 2-0 as well, and who knows what would happen.
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As I recall, the Porto winner came late in the game as well, with a speculative free kick from quite the distance. And Porto players were first to react on the rebound. So not sure they'd find time for another.
 
RaptorSlo said:
As I recall, the Porto winner came late in the game as well, with a speculative free kick from quite the distance. And Porto players were first to react on the rebound. So not sure they'd find time for another.
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Yeah, but even in a "everything else stays the same" scenario, with Scholes' goal that would make it 2-1 and extra-time. My only point is that it wasn't the sort of wrong call that completely turns around events, like the bitter memories seem to make it look. In the end, it was "just" a wrongly disallowed goal in the middle of the match. These happen a dime a dozen, just like wrong penalty calls or sending off offences.

I find it natural that people feel annoyed with it, after all it was probably one of the worst offside calls in my memory, but I've seen people imply that our CL title wasn't deserved because of that, when it's really hard to find a team that wins it without having some luck along the way. It was still the round of 16 ffs, we did pass other hurdles after that with plenty of merit, and even on that two-legged tie against United we did tremendously well and overall better than your lot. It seems to only be remembered by that unfortunate memory though.
 
led_scholes said:
But i do disagree about portugal though. Spain and England were better IMO but Spain was both unlucky and insecure. Portugal lost 2 times against Greece in their own stadium, if thats not an indication that Portugal wasnt that good I dont know then what it is.
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Portugal's failure in that Euro 2004 was a testament to Scolari's idiocy. I recall Portugal's starting XI in the first match against Greece:
- Ricardo
- Paulo Ferreira
- Rui Jorge
- Jorge Andrade
- Fernando Couto
- Costinha
- Maniche
- Rui Costa
- Simão
- Figo
- Pauleta

Anyone missing? Yeah, two of the best players in Europe at the time (Ricardo Carvalho and Deco), Europan Champions. Not to mention Vítor Baía who was far better than Ricardo, and the European Champion Nuno Valente who was far more competent than Rui Jorge.

Scolari had a tremendous bias against Porto and tried his hardest to not look like he was capitalizing on our European success. After that initial loss he had to turn it around though, introducing Valente, Deco and Carvalho. This is absolutely laughable, he should have been murdered by the press even before the tournament started for his bias, but us being the home team probably helped him in that regard. He never got past Ricardo for GK though, and as luck turned out his hollywoodesque antics against England helped him not being chastised for that, but with Baía in goal we would have never lost the final.

Portugal won't ever be a favourite to win a major tournament, but only with Scolari at the helm we could reach a final and still think a lot better should have been done. Absolute tool. I'm glad the remainder of his career showed the world what was evident to us Porto fans at the time.
 
Arruda said:
Portugal's failure in that Euro 2004 was a testament to Scolari's idiocy. I recall Portugal's starting XI in the first match against Greece:
- Ricardo
- Paulo Ferreira
- Rui Jorge
- Jorge Andrade
- Fernando Couto
- Costinha
- Maniche
- Rui Costa
- Simão
- Figo
- Pauleta

Anyone missing? Yeah, two of the best players in Europe at the time (Ricardo Carvalho and Deco), Europan Champions. Not to mention Vítor Baía who was far better than Ricardo.

Scolari had a tremendous bias against Porto and tried his hardest to not look like he was capitalizing on our European success. After that initial loss he had to turn it around though, introducing both Deco and Carvalho. This is absolutely laughable, he should have been murdered by the press at the time, but us being the home team probably helped him in that regard. He never got past Ricardo for GK though, and has luck turned out his hollywoodesque antics against England helped him not being chastised for that, but with Baía in goal we would have never lost the final.

Portugal won't ever be a favourite to win a major tournament, but only with Scolari at the helm we could reach a final and still think a lot better should have been done. Absolute tool. I'm glad the remainder of his career showed the world what was evident to us Porto fans at the time.
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And Ronaldo who was amazing in the Semi final against Holland. Yep we can't blame anyone but Scolari (and perhaps Pauleta as well for being useless in the big games) for not winning the Euro2004
 
Sly said:
And Ronaldo who was amazing in the Semi final against Holland. Yep we can't blame anyone but Scolari (and perhaps Pauleta as well for being useless in the big games) for not winning the Euro2004
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Ronaldo started the final IIRC. I think it's relatively excusable him not starting the first game, he was very young, Figo was still decent and Simão was near his peak. Likewise I can "excuse" Nuno Valente or Vitor Baía. But surely anyone can acknowledge that missing Deco and Ricardo Carvalho, who were probably the best in Europe in their positions at that time, showed what Scolari really was up to. Ridiculous.
 
Arruda said:
Ronaldo started the final IIRC. I think it's relatively excusable him not starting the first game, he was very young, Figo was still decent and Simão was near his peak. Likewise I can "excuse" Nuno Valente or Vitor Baía. But surely anyone can acknowledge that missing Deco and Ricardo Carvalho, who were probably the best in Europe in their positions at that time, showed what Scolari really was up to. Ridiculous.
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Deco and Carvalho started the final as well. They had the merit like Ronaldo to prove that they deserved it after the big flop lineup in the first Euro game against Greece. I hate Scolari but you have to understand his reasoning regarding Fernando Couto. He was the captain of the team, the player (at the time) with more caps, an integral part of the national team for ages. Since Scolari praises loyalty, i can understand why he picked him first, although i would obviously prefer Ricardo Carvalho. In the Final he picked the right team, the rest comes from his tactical inability and from the fact that we can't find or form a decent striker to finish the multiple chances our creative midfielders always create.
 
Sly said:
Deco and Carvalho started the final as well. They had the merit like Ronaldo to prove that they deserved it after the big flop lineup in the first Euro game against Greece. I hate Scolari but you have to understand his reasoning regarding Fernando Couto. He was the captain of the team, the player (at the time) with more caps, an integral part of the national team for ages. Since Scolari praises loyalty, i can understand why he picked him first, although i would obviously prefer Ricardo Carvalho. In the Final he picked the right team, the rest comes from his tactical inability and from the fact that we can't find or form a decent striker to finish the multiple chances our creative midfielders always create.
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Ricardo made an arse of Charisteas' header, but aye the nub of it really was the inability to score and the buck really stops with the centre-forward.
 
fontaine said:
UCL - Porto wins
Euro Cup - Greece wtff
La Liga - Valencia wins
Libertadores - Once Caldas (its like Malmo winning UCL)
NBA - Pistons shock the world beating unbeatable Lakers

Some minor ones
Argentina League - Newells Old Boy champions, its like Everton winning epl
EPL - Arsenal wins, at the time it was normal, but looking back (HUAhuHauHUahahuAHU)
Brazil Cup - a very very small team upset the giants Flamengo in a packed Maracana stadium.
English Cup - Middlesbrough champions
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Yeah, that really was an amazing as Once Caldas beat Tevez´Boca Juniors in the finals. A totally unfashionable side from the city of Manizales, known more for bullfighting than football. But in typical Colombian fashion, shortly after winning the title, the wife of Once Caldas´manager, Luis Fernando Montoya was followed home after withdrawing money and was mugged at her front door. Typical modus operandi here. Luis Fernando Montoya came out the front door to defend his wife and got shot and has been a paraplegic ever since. The assailants had no idea who they had just shot. Unfathomable tragedy.
 
Arruda said:
Portugal's failure in that Euro 2004 was a testament to Scolari's idiocy. I recall Portugal's starting XI in the first match against Greece:
- Ricardo
- Paulo Ferreira
- Rui Jorge
- Jorge Andrade
- Fernando Couto
- Costinha
- Maniche
- Rui Costa
- Simão
- Figo
- Pauleta

Anyone missing? Yeah, two of the best players in Europe at the time (Ricardo Carvalho and Deco), Europan Champions. Not to mention Vítor Baía who was far better than Ricardo, and the European Champion Nuno Valente who was far more competent than Rui Jorge.

Scolari had a tremendous bias against Porto and tried his hardest to not look like he was capitalizing on our European success. After that initial loss he had to turn it around though, introducing Valente, Deco and Carvalho. This is absolutely laughable, he should have been murdered by the press even before the tournament started for his bias, but us being the home team probably helped him in that regard. He never got past Ricardo for GK though, and as luck turned out his hollywoodesque antics against England helped him not being chastised for that, but with Baía in goal we would have never lost the final.

Portugal won't ever be a favourite to win a major tournament, but only with Scolari at the helm we could reach a final and still think a lot better should have been done. Absolute tool. I'm glad the remainder of his career showed the world what was evident to us Porto fans at the time.
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You are absolutely right that you had some great players. To be fair to Ricardo, IIRC it was more the defense's mistake than his. But usually when you say team you include everything even the coach. Rehangel did his best and wrote history with mediocre players. So just because you field better players it doesnt mean you have the best team. Czech republic didnt have great players in all positions. Portugal, England, France etc had better players. Still, Czech republic was the best team. I remembered that Czech republic and Spain were battering Greece for almost 90 minutes. France and Portugal didnt. I really believe thath when you lose 2 times against a mediocre team in your stadium with 99% of the ground cheering for you means that you have tons of flaws. You also had luck against Spain and England (not Greece's luck obviously :P ).

I think that in the WC 2006 you were a far better team than 2004 and unlucky not to reach the final. Why did Scolari was so biased against Porto? Did Mourinho made any "jesualdo ferreira" comment against him before the tournament and upset him?
 
Sly said:
Deco and Carvalho started the final as well. They had the merit like Ronaldo to prove that they deserved it after the big flop lineup in the first Euro game against Greece. I hate Scolari but you have to understand his reasoning regarding Fernando Couto. He was the captain of the team, the player (at the time) with more caps, an integral part of the national team for ages. Since Scolari praises loyalty, i can understand why he picked him first, although i would obviously prefer Ricardo Carvalho. In the Final he picked the right team, the rest comes from his tactical inability and from the fact that we can't find or form a decent striker to finish the multiple chances our creative midfielders always create.
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He definitely picked the right team in the final, I wasn't arguing against that. My point was the first game, which was a reflection of the preparation until then (which, results-wise, was pretty poor). He had a Portuguese backbone of a team that had just won back-to-back European competitions and he shunned them until the very end. Only Costinha was a regular before the tournament. The likes of Paulo Ferreira or Maniche entered the team shortly before it, and he had the boldness to try and do Euro 2004 without Deco, 2nd in the Ballon D'Or behind Shevchenkco :lol: Carvalho had to be in it as well, be it for Fernando Couto or Jorge Andrade, he was supposed to be a regular starter, ffs, undisputably one of the best CBs in Europe of his time.

Yeah, he did correct stuff after the tremendous backlash after the feck up against Greece, but the core point is that he really wanted to go through that Euros without 2 of the best players Portugal had at the time, and even though he put them in the first XI, he certainly didn't prepare the team for the Euros with that in mind.
 
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led_scholes said:
I think that in the WC 2006 you were a far better team than 2004 and unlucky not to reach the final. Why did Scolari was so biased against Porto? Did Mourinho made any "jesualdo ferreira" comment against him before the tournament and upset him?
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Nothing to do with Mourinho. Portugal is small country with lots of petty politics involved in football. A majority of the country speaks "Benfica", so Porto dominating for so long messed with a lot of egos (same would happen if it was Sporting). Scolari worked in Lisbon closer to them, was arguably told to "stay away from Porto" when he arrived here. These are rumours, I don't know where they came from, but he had a very poor relationship with Porto from the start, so I wouldn't be surprised if he was influenced (and hence influenceable, which is poor form for a manger). Porto's president always argued this line, I don't know how much of it is true.
 
Still, on topic, yeah, what a great year :drool:

Very hard to compute at the time. When we were 3-0 against Monaco I didn't know what to think. I was too young in 1987, and just couldn't believe what I was witnessing. My club winning the CL after winning UEFA Cup (which in itself was a weird feeling). As close to Leicester as I'll ever be. Your palms hurt like feck, and in the celebrations you scream until (or rather, far after) it really and literally hurts. Then you wake up, wonder if your life has really changed, realise it didn't, and feel like a miserable cnut because football wasn't really the answer to your personal problems.

/rant
 
Arruda said:
He definitely picked the right team in the final, I wasn't arguing against that. My point was the first game, which was a reflection of the preparation until then (which, results-wise, was pretty poor). He had a Portuguese backbone of a team that had just won back-to-back European competitions and he shunned them until the very end. Only Costinha was a regular before the tournament. The likes of Paulo Ferreira or Maniche entered the team shortly before it, and he had the boldness to try and do Euro 2004 without Deco, 2nd in the Ballon D'Or behind Shevchenkco :lol: Carvalho had to be in it as well, be it for Fernando Couto or Jorge Andrade, he was supposed to be a regular starter, ffs, undisputably one of the best CBs in Europe of his time.

Yeah, he did correct stuff after the tremendous backlash after the feck up against Greece, but the core point is that he really wanted to go through that Euros without 2 of the best players Portugal had at the time, and even though he put them in the first XI, he certainly didn't prepare the team for the Euros with that in mind.
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Scolari had an obvious bias against Porto, i don't deny that. Picking Rui Costa instead of Deco had all the traits of a move to appease Benfica fans but there were other circunstancies behind it if you remember it. Although Deco was in excellent form and coming from an incredible year, Scolari suffered incredible pressure from some sectors of society and media to pick a former great such as Rui Costa instead of a naturalized player named Deco. He as a brazilian manager, i guess he bulked to the pressure of not displacing a player with Rui Costa's historial to give spot to a Luso-Brazilian. He didn't want to look like he was favouring his compatriot. I remember reading some articles and opinions that were close to being xenophobic and although he was named "sargentão" and had fame to do what he wants, i have no doubt that his decision had nothing to do with ability but was due to political and social pressures. After the disaster that the first game was, it was easier to put Deco on, who deserved it far more to be a starter rather than Rui Costa.

Regarding Fernando Couto i mantain the stance. I'm just thinking like Scolari. As a Sporting fan i'd obviously pick Ricardo Carvalho and Deco but as a relatively new manager, it's not easy displacing the prime figures and veterans of a team. They had incredible influence on the team. Couto was the captain and a reference of our defence for many years. You don't go against those players and replace them easily. I disagree with Scolari choices but i understood his reasoning.
 
That Czech Republic side was awesome and their 3-2 win over Holland in the group stage is one of the most memorable international matches over the past 10-15 years.

And despite being shocked by Greece, Portugal provided some memorable moments like Maniche's goal vs. Holland, Rui Costa vs. England, Ricardo saving Vassell's penalty with no gloves on. :D
 
fontaine said:
UCL - Porto wins
Euro Cup - Greece wtff
La Liga - Valencia wins
Libertadores - Once Caldas (its like Malmo winning UCL)
NBA - Pistons shock the world beating unbeatable Lakers

Some minor ones
Argentina League - Newells Old Boy champions, its like Everton winning epl
EPL - Arsenal wins, at the time it was normal, but looking back (HUAhuHauHUahahuAHU)
Brazil Cup - a very very small team upset the giants Flamengo in a packed Maracana stadium.
English Cup - Middlesbrough champions
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+ Bundesliga - Werder Bremen wins the double

Great year indeed, Greece was really the standout sensation.
 
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