2019/20 Rivals - Spurs

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by AkaAkuma, Jun 12, 2019.

  1. Aug 11, 2019

    cjj New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2017
    Messages:
    171
    Supports:
    Spurs
    It was never a conversation about Eriksen's ability or worth, it was purely about how ridiculous "assist" stats are, and ironically the opposite point that has been interpreted.

    There are a lot of inferior players who would have double-figure assist statistics if they were passing to the likes of Kane, who tend to score half-chances, rather than Rondon. Assists don't, however, provide any information that reflects any individual quality - it's just assumption.
  2. Aug 12, 2019

    Scroto Baggins Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2017
    Messages:
    1,196
    He could well stay another year and be a free agent you are right, as for the clubs listed, he has already ruled out the PL so forget us or City. PSG meh, French league, as I said if all he cares about is money sure take a contract with PSG. Juventus are a slight step up from Spurs, but not to the same level as a Barca or RM. They will guarantee you a Serie A trophy every year. But Spurs have just about an equal shot as Juve at CL trophy, at the moment their squad isnt much better than Spurs. The fact Dybala was seriously considering a move to Spurs says as much.

    Athletico is easily a sideways move, how are they not? Were Athletico in a CL final recently? They are in a league with Barcelona and RM, just as Spurs are in a league currently dominated by City and a revitalised Liverpool. Neither of them are winning their domestic comps anytime soon.

    As for the squads, Costa and Morata or Kane, there really is no choice here. Costa in his best year isnt close to Kane, Morata a bit of a flop. Felix one for the future for sure, could be a special player, but just a kid at the moment. Griezmann gone, Rodri gone, big losses for the squad. Spurs didnt want Trippier, Athletico picked him up. A combined team would be majority Spurs players. Oblak, Giminez, Koke and Niguez make the Spurs squad, who else? I think Son and Moura are better than Lemar, Ndombele better than Thomas.
  3. Aug 12, 2019

    Duncspur New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2018
    Messages:
    6
    Supports:
    Tottenham Hotspur
    Also, given that he turned down Utd because it wasn't an 'upwards' move from Spurs, I hardly think he'd see Athletico as an upwards move in comparison to Utd.
  4. Aug 12, 2019

    Scroto Baggins Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2017
    Messages:
    1,196
    I heard it was a gentlemans agreement not to join any club in the prem, so not just us, that includes City or Liverpool.

    Spurs will definitely be weaker when he leaves as Lo Celso will take a while to settle in and grow his game.
  5. Aug 12, 2019

    InLevyITrust Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Messages:
    6,696
    Location:
    Northern Ireland
    Supports:
    Tottenham
    As far as I know Atletico enquired at the same time they got Trippier and Eriksen said no.
  6. Aug 12, 2019

    Duncspur New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2018
    Messages:
    6
    Supports:
    Tottenham Hotspur
    First I've heard of any gentlemen's agreement.

    We'll definitely be weaker if he leaves, for a time at least.
  7. Aug 12, 2019

    Powderfinger Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2015
    Messages:
    691
    Supports:
    Arsenal
    55m is a lot of money but transfer fees have skyrocketed, perhaps making it seem a bit more of an investment than it really represents. Five or six years ago he would have cost 25-30 million, like about what you paid for Lamela or United paid for Ander Herrera or Chelsea paid for Willian. Players bought in this bracket end up with all sorts of outcomes but rarely have careers as good as Eriksen.

    You may not need him to be as good as Eriksen but if he’s not then it will be a net loss at the position. You can make it up elsewhere in theory but everything said here is also largely applicable to N’Dombele.

    The basic point is that it’s hard to replace top class players, when you fail to replace those top class players you usually get worse, and this is why most teams end up going through cycles.
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019
  8. Aug 13, 2019 at 09:22

    InLevyITrust Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Messages:
    6,696
    Location:
    Northern Ireland
    Supports:
    Tottenham
    Eriksen seemingly offered £200K a week new contract, would be surprised (happily) if he signs it even if it does have a release clause. Having said that he did at Ajax when his contract was running down.
  9. Aug 13, 2019 at 09:37

    fps Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2018
    Messages:
    769
    Absolutely laughable.
  10. Aug 13, 2019 at 11:16

    Wade3 Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2013
    Messages:
    2,532
    Kind of like Eriksen, who was sold for a staggering 13.5 million euros? Not that I'm so high on Lo Celso, I haven't seen him play enough, but this argument is fairly poor.
  11. Aug 13, 2019 at 11:54

    Powderfinger Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2015
    Messages:
    691
    Supports:
    Arsenal
    Of course, cheap players sometimes turn into stars. So what?

    The question at hand regards the odds of Lo Celso being as good as Eriksen and therefore replacing him without making the team worse. And the point is that the odds aren't that high and that if the odds were as high as some Spurs fans would like to think, he would have been sold for more because a 22-year-old player with a very high chance of being as good as Cristian Eriksen (who was once valued over 100m) would be recognized as a mega-talent and sold for far more than 55m in this market. I don't see what's so poor about that argument, its completely logical.

    This doesn't mean Lo Celso won't be as good or better than Eriksen. Nobody knows what the future holds. Its an argument about probability.
  12. Aug 13, 2019 at 12:32

    SquishyMcSquish Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2018
    Messages:
    6,773
    Supports:
    Tottenham

    This is how every club in the world operates though? Every team loses a key player eventually, either through age or them leaving .. and they manage. We've replaced Eriksen's presence in midfield with a top class young talent in Lo Celso and one of the most coveted young central midfielders in the world in Ndombele. Sure, the chance is always there they aren't good enough, but with both of them coming in we should see a net improvement in our midfield play than if we just had Eriksen amongst shite.

    And the sale price of a player is dependent on a number of factors, not just how big a talent they are. Other teams are pretty well stocked when it comes to attacking/creative midfielders, so there wasn't huge competition from mega clubs for his signature. Betis originally wanted 70mish which is still big money for a young talent (what was frenkie de jong? 75m euros?) but clearly the player pushed hard for a move all summer so they dropped it somewhat, but still to a price which would suggest they rate him extremely highly as an asset. They're hardly a huge club who can resist big money offers and refuse to accept unless the fee is tremendously high.

    Regardless of the Eriksen sale, I believe that we've improved in the midfield area this season. Winks/Ndombele/Lo Celso is a really well balanced midfield, and again we don't need Lo Celso to be as good as eriksen (although, from what I've read about the player from La Liga journalists/people who have consistently watched him, he is rated extremely highly) merely to come in and be a successful signing, and we can build in other areas so we become a better all round side.

    Every team has to deal with the occasional big player moving, it's not a huge issue at all as long as we do go out and replace his presence in the team. I think we've got about that the right way with these signings and I hope we also do it for other positions.
  13. Aug 13, 2019 at 12:50

    Scroto Baggins Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2017
    Messages:
    1,196
    So what are the Spurs fans thinking for this weekend? 2-1 City? A bit of a hammering 3-0 City? A close game 1-0 to City?
  14. Aug 13, 2019 at 13:13

    Poch New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2017
    Messages:
    67
    Supports:
    Spurs
    2-2 is my prediction.
  15. Aug 13, 2019 at 13:21

    GlastonSpur Also disliked on an Aston Villa forum

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2007
    Messages:
    15,089
    Supports:
    Spurs
    A loss is obviously more likely than a draw or a win, but I wouldn't rule out either of these last two possibilities. I think it'll be a close game.

    But it's a pity we won't have Son available, nor Alli as far as I know, and I think the game has come too soon for Lo Celso's involvement, although maybe (?) he'll scrape onto the subs bench.
  16. Aug 13, 2019 at 14:33

    Powderfinger Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2015
    Messages:
    691
    Supports:
    Arsenal
    I don't disagree. I think Spurs have done very well with their signings - honestly, about as well as one could hope as a Spurs fan - but that's still consistent with the notion that you'll probably get worse in Eriksen's position. I wouldn't assume that N'Dombele will be as good as Dembele in his pomp either, as Dembele was very good in my view and remains quite underrated. Its just hard to replace top class players.
  17. Aug 13, 2019 at 14:49

    SquishyMcSquish Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2018
    Messages:
    6,773
    Supports:
    Tottenham
    Getting a bit worse in Eriksen's position isn't a huge issue as long as we retain Kane/Son up top (which we are doing) and can continue to improve elsewhere. The loss of one star (whilst being replaced by someone very talented such as Lo Celso) isn't going to be a death blow for us.

    Dembele was fantastic but he hasn't been in his pomp for years now and we've managed. The aim this season is to finish 3rd and possibly win a domestic cup, I do think our squad is the third best in the league and very capable of that objective. From there, who knows? We now have money to invest in the side and since we targeted a player with the profile of a Dybala, maybe we'll see the club going after bigger targets more frequently. Oh, and overall I'd be pretty disappointed if N'dombele didn't reach Dembele's level, the latter was fantastic for us but Ndombele's passing and general creative ability seems on another level. This guy cost a pretty large fee and naturally there are big expectations for him.
  18. Aug 13, 2019 at 14:59

    RedSky likes to kick 10-year-olds Scout

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2006
    Messages:
    61,585
    Location:
    Hereford FC (Soccermanager)
    Surely thats entirely dependent on Lo Celso being the real deal though? You have to remember that Eriksen and Trippier combined got 122 Key Passes last season. Kane, Son, Alli and Moura (you next 4 highest) got a combined 117 Key Passes. That's a lot of creativity gone from your squad. That to me would be a big concern.

    Some of your other players are going to need to step it up big time to fill those shoes.
  19. Aug 13, 2019 at 15:18

    Scroto Baggins Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2017
    Messages:
    1,196
    You can have a little drop in skill and still be fine if the team changes tactically to a new approach focusing on the skills the new players have. Dembele was an excellent midfielder, but not in the same league as the man he replaced in Modric. Spurs have not had a midfielder even close to his class since. But they were not CL finalists when Modric was playing for them.
  20. Aug 13, 2019 at 15:33

    SquishyMcSquish Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2018
    Messages:
    6,773
    Supports:
    Tottenham
    It's not like Lo Celso is some randomer. He's a full Argentine international who was excellent for Betis last season in a top league, has been known as a significant talent for a while, and one we spent 55 million to acquire.

    And also, Ndombele managed to get a decent amount of assists for Lyon and from what I've seen of him at Spurs he's constantly positive and looking to carve open the opposition, so again I'd expect him and Lo Celso to rack up a decent amount of key passes this season combined. I also do think we'll keep Eriksen for this season personally, and then bring in another player when he goes, we seemingly were after Dybala all of last summer who would fit the bill as a number 10/player who drifts behind Kane and is creative.

    Added to that, I think Alli will improve from last campaign. He had his worst season by far at the club and a few injury issues, so it's not a leap to expect he could have a better year and if so that's enough player who eases the creative burden.
  21. Aug 13, 2019 at 15:38

    Wade3 Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2013
    Messages:
    2,532
    It's poor because it's been proven wrong several times. Granted I don't have a statistic for it, but I'd guess transfer price and career success haven't correlated that much in the past ten years when it comes to young, talented players. Talents have been misjudged in both directions so often, thus a transfer fee or they amount of clubs interested in a player absolutely don't mean much when it comes to the player's chances of becoming great, let alone world class.
  22. Aug 13, 2019 at 15:42

    sincher "I will cry if Rooney leaves"

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2004
    Messages:
    24,027
    Location:
    YSC
    Surprised not to see a new right back.
  23. Aug 13, 2019 at 16:49

    Ajaxsuarez Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2009
    Messages:
    714
    Supports:
    Ajax
    Nah he never did actually. The summer he was in the situation at us that is he now with you is the summer he left to you guys. He told the press that he would extend with a year if no club came so that Ajax would still earn money off him the following summer, but then that club did come so we sold him right before the transfer deadline and he never had to actually extend
  24. Aug 13, 2019 at 17:18

    vadimivich Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2013
    Messages:
    767
    Location:
    Wien, Österreich
    Supports:
    Tottenham Hotspur
    Yeah, it's a big part of why his fee was so low. Not like people didn't know he was a big talent, just that Ajax had very little leverage.
  25. Aug 13, 2019 at 19:27

    InLevyITrust Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Messages:
    6,696
    Location:
    Northern Ireland
    Supports:
    Tottenham
    Do you think he would have?
  26. Aug 13, 2019 at 23:38

    Ajaxsuarez Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2009
    Messages:
    714
    Supports:
    Ajax
    100%

    I've always been critical of us letting him go so late in the window and for so little money, because to me the idea that we had to sell him then and for a low fee because his contract was running out rang entirely untrue against his words and his character
  27. Aug 14, 2019 at 17:43

    Sweech Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2016
    Messages:
    620
    Supports:
    Tottenham Hotspur
    I am as well and think it will be addressed later.

    That said KWP played very well against Villa who tried to target him and use El Ghazi's size and strength against him which didn't work. He's got a big opportunity here and I think all Spurs supporters are hoping he takes it.
  28. Aug 14, 2019 at 17:45

    Sweech Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2016
    Messages:
    620
    Supports:
    Tottenham Hotspur
    I also think all the comments comparing Lo Celso to Eriksen are very unfair. Totally different types of player imo.
  29. Aug 14, 2019 at 18:07

    Random Task Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2010
    Messages:
    14,469
    Location:
    Chester
    I know very little of Lo Celso in terms of playstyle, but I was under the impression that he was brought in to replace Madrid-bound Eriksen. Is that not the case?
  30. Aug 14, 2019 at 18:18

    balaks Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2014
    Messages:
    7,034
    Location:
    Northern Ireland
    Supports:
    Tottenham Hotspur
    I dont think so, he is more of a central midfielder so he is there to bolster that area. He can possibly play higher up in an eriksen role but my understanding is he plays deeper generally. I cant honestly say I've seen enough of him though to judge.
  31. Aug 14, 2019 at 18:19

    vadimivich Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2013
    Messages:
    767
    Location:
    Wien, Österreich
    Supports:
    Tottenham Hotspur
    Different style of player - not so much a "lock picker" with his passing, but more mobile and a more dynamic dribbler than Eriksen. Can play comfortably deeper as well.

    Spurs will have to change how we play with Lo Celso as opposed to with Eriksen.
  32. Aug 14, 2019 at 18:20

    Sweech Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2016
    Messages:
    620
    Supports:
    Tottenham Hotspur
    I don't really think so? He's tactically flexible like Eriksen, playing AM/CM/out wide but he's not an Eriksen type of playmaker - Never really has been. To me he's actually quite similar to Ndombele but will likely be used a little further up the pitch.
  33. Aug 14, 2019 at 19:08

    Seij Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2014
    Messages:
    822
    With Zidane not letting go of his Pogba obsession and Real also waiting to see if the Neymar to Barca deal fall through, it looks like he's staying. Good for Spurs. How often does a player of his caliber want to leave the club and the club is agreeable, but he ends up staying?
  34. Aug 14, 2019 at 19:16

    Random Task Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2010
    Messages:
    14,469
    Location:
    Chester
    Thinking about it, Dybala was probably intended to replace Eriksen.

    What Spurs need to do more than anything is convince him to stay. A fat weekly salary, a tonne of bank-breaking bonuses and a lifetimes supply of cheese should do the trick. I mean, who doesn't like cheese?
  35. Aug 14, 2019 at 19:49

    balaks Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2014
    Messages:
    7,034
    Location:
    Northern Ireland
    Supports:
    Tottenham Hotspur
    I agree on all parts, especially the cheese. Ahhhhh cheese.
  36. Aug 14, 2019 at 19:51

    Sweech Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2016
    Messages:
    620
    Supports:
    Tottenham Hotspur
    Agreed I think we really need to convince Eriksen to stay.

    It seems like the best option would be to give him an improved contract with a release clause for the likes of Real/Barca.
  37. Aug 15, 2019 at 09:09

    balaks Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2014
    Messages:
    7,034
    Location:
    Northern Ireland
    Supports:
    Tottenham Hotspur
  38. Aug 15, 2019 at 09:16

    hellohello Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2015
    Messages:
    1,809
    Supports:
    Tottenham
    If he is still at Spurs once the international window close we will see what Eriksen really wants to do if Real doesn't come for him. No doubt he wants to go to Real Madrid, but if that doesn't happen what then? There will be a big contract from Spurs waiting for him, and in the position Spurs are in no doubt he can get a release clause put in for clubs abroad. He can also run his contract down and try his luck with Madrid (although it looks more likely they will come back for Pogba) or other clubs like Juventus from January onwards. Will be interesting to see what happens, and it's not impossible that he signs a new contract and stays at Spurs.
  39. Aug 15, 2019 at 09:24

    balaks Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2014
    Messages:
    7,034
    Location:
    Northern Ireland
    Supports:
    Tottenham Hotspur
    If he signs a contract it will likely have a set release clause so we probably would have him until next summer - which would suit us (we get more money) and the player - I'm fine with it as long as he doesn't let his head drop and gives his all for us while he is here.
  40. Aug 15, 2019 at 10:06

    vadimivich Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2013
    Messages:
    767
    Location:
    Wien, Österreich
    Supports:
    Tottenham Hotspur