2021 Sheep Draft Finals - Pat vs Ecstatic

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

vs

..................................................... TEAM PAT ................................................................................................................... TEAM ECSTATIC .............................................


TEAM PAT:

Formation: 4-3-3 with a fluid attacking trio.

We're changing things up significantly for the final, with four players entering the starting XI, and an accompanying change of stylistic emphasis from a mostly wing-focused attack with relatively fixed positions to a far more fluid set up. Pele comes back from injury to conduct our attack from a nominal CF role, from which he'll frequently drop off to create and orchestrate. New signing Luis Ronaldo plays from a left-sided wide-forward position, looking to exploit the Cafu-sized gap in the opposition defence, with George Best starting on the right wing. With Pele as the nerve centre extraordinaire, Ronaldo's obvious ability to shift seamlessly to a CF position and Best's natural tendency to roam in search of openings, there's potential for some dizzyingly sexy and dangerous interchanges between three of the most gifted attacking players of all-time.

In defence, Bergomi replaces the injured Vierchowod as Passarella's teak-tough partner. Djalma Santos continues at right back, with Ruud Krol replacing Camacho at left-back. Krol will be tasked with supporting the attack and providing attacking width when we're in possession, and commensurately Passarella will have to play more conservatively here, limiting his charges forward unless we're chasing the game, which would only be prudent anyway considering the huge threat the opposition pose in attack. Our midfield remains unchanged, with Luis Suarez orchestrating from deep, flanked by the two B2B powerhouses Robson and Neeskens. It would be remiss not to mention as regards Robbo that arguably his most iconic performance came against Maradona's Barcelona, and of course I'll shamelessly post harms' great compilation video at an opportune time in the match thread.


TEAM ECSTATIC:

THE FIGHTING PLAYMAKING TEAM WINNING THE MIDFIELD BATTLE

• Striker - Ballon d'Or complete and excellent in the air
• Free Advanced PlayFightmaker - La Mano de Dios was more than a #10, somebody who can deployed on the left, right, centre...
• Organizing PlayFightmaker: Platini, the playmaker who wants to be involved in any tasks: set-pieces, pressing, deeplying playmaking etc.
• Two B2B - Tigana/Platini a proven partnership and Falcao the typical playmaking DM on the pitch
• Captain - Maradona who who will inspire and make better his teammates
• The Tactical Coup - the right-footed Breitner in charge of Ronaldo very probably. Commando Mode inspired by the duel Vogts-Cruyjff

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

@Pat_Mustard @Ecstatic Hope both of you lose!

 

[2mufc0]

What the hell, how was Pat allowed to build that

 

[Synco]

Yay, all time drafts

Really good move with Breitner at RB after Ecstatic's RR troubles, Tigana seems a great partner to give him some attacking leeway. But there's still Ronaldo on that side, of course.

Pat's reinforcement round was just glorious, all put together in a cohesive team.

Also nice to see Luis Suarez & Giggs in a final like that.

 

[Ecstatic]

THE MESSI-AH

 

[Synco]

@Ecstatic, probably the most obvious question: How do you see Platini and Diego work together? What I get from the formation graphic & OP is that Platini is the main playmaker and Maradona more in an auxiliary attacking role?

 

[Ecstatic]

DIEGO VS ENGLAND 86

WHEN INSPIRED BY THE RIGHT SIDE...

... BUT WAS EVERYWHERE AS YOU CAN SEE

 

[Ecstatic]

Really good move with Breitner at RB after Ecstatic's RR troubles, Tigana seems a great partner to give him some attacking leeway. But there's still Ronaldo on that side, of course.

Thanks. The right-footed Breitner is really a man of challenge.

Better for him to play against Ronaldo who is not a typical winger instead of Best.

@Ecstatic, probably the most obvious question: How do you see Platini and Diego work together? What I get from the formation graphic & OP is that Platini is the main playmaker and Maradona more in an auxiliary attacking role?

Platini is a special case as he wants to be at the heart of the battle midfield.The video below illustrates well how Platini works for the team and the front 3. There is also Robson in this game.

I really see a complimentary duo that would be beautiful but different from the duos Platini/Boniek and Platini/Giresse.

I did post the post above one month ago so I am not saying I believe in this partnership in order to have a decent scoreline

Batistuta
Rivaldo---------- - Diego
Platini
Davids/Keane/Robson------------- Vieira
Breitner - Beckenbauer - Figueroa - Cafu
Neuer​

A team with players full of cojones
Diego surrounded by players who will protect him and destroy any player who would like to touch Diego.
Diego is a fighter so you would need a team of fighters so Breitner/Beckenbauer would be in a position to join the party and battle midfield.

Make Platini the assistant/deep-lying playmaker and have a fluid trio >>>>>> Diego in a free-role
Platini and Diego could work together
>>>>>>>>> The French would attract defensive midfielders
>>>>>>>>> Rivaldo-Batigol-Diego would be a very complimentary
>>>>>>>>> Rivaldo can join Bati in tyhe penalty area
>>>>>>>>> Cafu to offer great options for Diego who would have a free-role.
>>>>>>>>> Beckenbauer entering the midfield

No - - Diego does not deserve to play with sheeps even if he can transform an injured sheep into a very good football player.

 

[Ecstatic]

Each team has its pros and cons.

The way I view this game is that I have a team more compact and likely to take control of the game as I don't see Luis Suarew Miramontes managing the incursions of both Platini and Maradona.

I see a consistent team against a list of individuals!

 

[Ecstatic]

@Pat_Mustard @Ecstatic Hope both of you lose!

Thanks.

 

[Physiocrat]

This is certainly one of the most tactically interesting GOAT fests for a while. I suspected Esctatic would go for Maradona and Platini in the same side

 

[Ecstatic]

LAST GIFS - breitner

 

[harms]

Platini & Maradona playing together

 

[Ecstatic]

This is certainly one of the most tactically interesting GOAT fests for a while. I suspected Esctatic would go for Maradona and Platini in the same side

Some interesting choices made by Pat too.

I have declined Zico for my 2nd pick, but not very complimentary to have Zico-Platini-Maradona so opted for Eusebio.

To be fair, the player I wanted was Kalle but as @harms made a video about Breitnigge, then I thought Pat would block me as everybody know I have often tried to pick some duos in this draft.

 

[Ecstatic]

1st pick - my assumptions is that Pat would block Zico (because I have Cerezo, Falcao, Leo) so thought Maradona would be available
2nd pick - Pat knew I would look at another offensive player but already tried to pick Henry in the draft, and Kalle is an obvious pick for my theme (The duos) so thought Eusebio would be available
3rd pick - The choice was between Thuram and Carlos Alberto. Carlos/Jairzinho is a duo I could have considered. Thought Pat had already blocked him in a previous round. So thought that Thuram was more risky while Carlos was ineligible

I did overthink indeed :-)

 

[Ecstatic]

Platini & Maradona playing together

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Between Falcao and Maradona, Platini is superfluous to that midfield. Breitnew should be ok, considering no true wide threat.
Pat needs Krol to provide width and with Diego lurking there, might give Ecstatic the edge in here.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Not overly impressed with how either team ended by the final.

 

[Himannv]

I dislike both teams equally. Draw.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Between Falcao and Maradona, Platini is superfluous to that midfield. Breitnew should be ok, considering no true wide threat.
Pat needs Krol to provide width and with Diego lurking there, might give Ecstatic the edge in here.

If Ronaldo doesn't constitute a true wide threat then I don't know who does. One of the greatest dribblers and fastest attackers in the history of the sport, who has demonstrated time and time again that he can eviscerate defenders from more or less any area of the pitch:

Plenty of examples of tight-space dribbling against multiple opponents in this video too, and his capability of going either inside or out. Whoever edited the video cut the plays off for brevity a bit too quickly for my liking, great video though it is, but 0:43, 01:33, 01:59, 02:29 are all good examples of him dribbling past one of more defenders on the outside, from a wide left position, which of course he's not remotely limited to in this match anyway.


As a makeshift solution I actually quite like the Breitner choice, but I fail to see how Ronaldo can't provide the requisite width to trouble a stand-in RB, whereas specialist LB Krol, who had enough defensive quality to become a great libero in his later career, is a match-deciding weakness.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Each team has its pros and cons.

The way I view this game is that I have a team more compact and likely to take control of the game as I don't see Luis Suarew Miramontes managing the incursions of both Platini and Maradona.

I see a consistent team against a list of individuals!

Shots fired!

In fairness Suarez has Neeskens and Robbo supporting him in a midfield three. We're not leaving him holding the fort alone here.

The Tactical Coup - the right-footed Breitner in charge of Ronaldo very probably. Commando Mode inspired by the duel Vogts-Cruyjff

Can you elaborate on this? Is Breitner supposed to be man-marking Ronaldo? I'm not seeing much relevance to Vogts' man-marking job on Cruyff otherwise.

 

[Himannv]

Changed my view slightly after Pat's Ronaldo post and some thought on how he'd work with Pele. I think that'll play out alright.

 

[Himannv]

There are still some concerns with Pat's team. You ideally want fullbacks who would attack quite a bit in a typical 4-3-3 so Djalma doesn't suit the tactic. Also Suarez has too much defensive work to do to sort out Platini. Having said that, I have bigger concerns with the other team so voting for Pat here.

 

[Jim Beam]

With Pele dropping deeper linking with the midfield this at times becomes that 4-4-2 diamond I like so much.
Considering the tactics wing attackers are mostly providing the necessary width and I don't have problems with Djalma especially as Best is on his side.

Other forwards that could work in this scheme: Law, Seeler, Francescoli, Benzema, even Zico (although Zico would require more natural scorer on the right)... Pele is of course perfect, just my thoughts as I wanted to play this tactic in the draft some day, as is Ronaldo on the left.

Nice move with Breitner on the other side who would probably do a good job considering his qualities, but this Pat team is a different beast and has too much to deal with imo.

 

[Gio]

Breitner on the right is a nice on-the-ball move as it's the sort of position he sometimes found himself in the fluid West German back four of the early 1970s. And he's a good fit as a right-footed player who can get on the ball and dictate matters. That said and, while I'm open to persuasion, I'm not massively enthused about his defensive game and he's up against Ronaldo, of all people, which means Figueroa is going to be pulled out from the centre quite regularly. Similar challenge on the other side with Best against Junior. In comparison I suppose the difference is there looks like more of a support network around Krol to deal with Maradona, be it Robbo inside (where a 1984/85 man-mountain effort is not out of the question) or Passarella on the cover. Outside of the individual battles, some of the football that Ecstatic's midfield would play would be seriously incisive. That could get it into Maradona in some space, which is always a shit-the-bed moment.

A fairly even game, where for me Ecstatic is unfortunate to suffer a couple of head-to-head battles that I suspect Ronaldo and Best would win a little too often.

 

[Isotope]

I just don't see how Maradona and Platini would work. But if it works, that would be one hell of a team.
And I think Pat should go with traditional 4-4-1-1 with Best and Matthews on the wings, instead of shoehorning one of the greatest goalscorer to the wing. Although I've also watched Ronaldo playing from the left, ala Henry at Arsenal.

 

[harms]

I think the criticism of shoehorning Ronaldo is a little bit unfair, especially since in reality it'll probably look a bit like that, with Ronaldo & Best in free-roaming roles slightly further up than Pelé with Best taking wide positions more often and Ronaldo peeling out wide when he sees gaps of space to exploit.

----Ronaldo------------
<-----------Best---------->
----------Pelé--------------​

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

For me both the attacks are brilliant. I can see Ronaldo/Best thriving there and same with Platini/Maradona.

My biggest criticism of both teams is a lack of a defensive midfielder. You would hardly ever see a big game with great attackers and the opposition not having a genuine defensive midfielder.

We had improved on this aspect in drafts in the recent years but this final seems straight from a few years ago threads where it was all about looking shiny on the ball.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

I just don't see how Maradona and Platini would work.

Why? Maradona and Burruchaga worked really well and I can see the same chemistry here.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

And I think Pat should go with traditional 4-4-1-1 with Best and Matthews on the wings, instead of shoehorning one of the greatest goalscorer to the wing

Partially agree. I would have played Ronaldo centrally too with Pele on the left in a free roaming role in a 4-3-3.

This team could have been a really pretty WM too

Best--------Ronaldo-------Matthews
--------Pele------------Suarez-------------
------Robson------Neeskens------------
--Krol-----Passarella----Bergomi-----

Would have lost but would have been way too tempting to not go for it for me.

 

[Lord SInister]

I can't see past Best-R9-Pele combo.

 

[Jim Beam]

This team could have been a really pretty WM too

Best--------Ronaldo-------Matthews
--------Pele------------Suarez-------------
------Robson------Neeskens------------
--Krol-----Passarella----Bergomi-----

Would have lost but would have been way too tempting to not go for it for me.

So, you wouldn't mind playing without DM in that gung-ho formation, but here it doesn't seem right? (I know you said you would lose with it, but it still doesn't seem balanced to me).

I don't quite understand why there is a need for DM when you have Suarez holding the base surrounded with 2 crazy engines of Robson and Neeskens on each side. This reasoning has someone like Pirlo pretty much useless in draft.

 

[harms]

Yeah, it's not even 2 box-to-box anymore (which can work depending on the personnel), but 2 energetic ball-winners next to a central playmaker with decent workrate/positioning and this is still not enough?

 

[Gio]

For me both the attacks are brilliant. I can see Ronaldo/Best thriving there and same with Platini/Maradona.

My biggest criticism of both teams is a lack of a defensive midfielder. You would hardly ever see a big game with great attackers and the opposition not having a genuine defensive midfielder.

We had improved on this aspect in drafts in the recent years but this final seems straight from a few years ago threads where it was all about looking shiny on the ball.

The balance in Ecstatic's midfield is a wee bit off as you say, but in my view Pat's team doesn't need a dedicated DM given they've got two box-to-box warhorses in Robson and Neeskens, and in Suarez a player who's okay off the ball and can sit as the pivot spraying passes.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

So, you wouldn't mind playing without DM in that gung-ho formation, but here it doesn't seem right? (I know you said you would lose with it, but it still doesn't seem balanced to me).

Of course its not balanced and anyone with half a brain would not vote for it. But it would be a glorious loss.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Yeah, it's not even 2 box-to-box anymore (which can work depending on the personnel), but 2 energetic ball-winners next to a central playmaker with decent workrate/positioning and this is still not enough?

Not in my eyes when the opposition has Diego/Platini/Falcao

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

The balance in Ecstatic's midfield is a wee bit off as you say, but in my view Pat's team doesn't need a dedicated DM given they've got two box-to-box warhorses in Robson and Neeskens, and in Suarez a player who's okay off the ball and can sit as the pivot spraying passes.

Same thing I mentioned to harms. Has to be seen from the opposition's context.

Some (perhaps harms) miht argue Robson did a great job against Platini in the past but he still had a dedicated DM by his side in a 4 man midfield.

It sounds good in theory 2 B2B and 1 DLP, but would not be effective against such an opposition IMO.

 

[Jim Beam]

Of course its not balanced and anyone with half a brain would not vote for it. But it would be a glorious loss.

Not sure, think you butchered that team a bit tbh.

In your own words, there are times to play WM and times not to.

 

[harms]

Some (perhaps harms) miht argue Robson did a great job against Platini in the past but he still had a dedicated DM by his side in a 4 man midfield.

Do you mean Wilkins? I really don't see him as a dedicated DM and his best feature was surely his passing. And Neeskens + Suarez is a by far superior defensive presence than Wilkins alone.

 

[Isotope]

Why? Maradona and Burruchaga worked really well and I can see the same chemistry here.

Have Platini and Maradona ever worked as NOT the main man?