2021 Sheep Draft SF - Chesterlestreet vs. Ecstatic

[Michaelf7777777]

Chesterlestreet

Spoiler: Roles

Roles:

Clemence: GK
Gerets: RB (balanced)
Chumpitaz: CB (defence leader)
Costacurta: CB (world class side kick)
Facchetti: LB (offensive)
Beckenbauer: CM/DM (box-to-box)
Masopust: CM/DM (box-to-box)
Rivera: AM (playmaker)
Littbarski: RW/RWF (will cut inside)
Finney: LW/LWF (will cut inside)
Ronaldo: CF (mobile, not a box player)

Notes/comments:

Reason for using Beckenbauer in a midfield capacity: Mainly because I fancy it. But it's not done for shits and giggles - I actually think he'd work well in this setup. And he's replaced as defence leader by a...defence leader. One of the greatest ever, in fact.

Spoiler: Additional Note

I will also mention here that the obvious alternative to the setup I have gone for would be to stick with Beckenbauer as CB/libero (in which case I would have paired him with Scwarzenbeck) - and then try my luck with a potentially problematic v. Hanegem/Masopust combo in the middle.

That combo could be interesting - sure - but I don't really fancy it, for several reasons. Others may disagree - but there you go. AND: I would have faced a predictable (but not unreasonable - in a semi-final) criticism that Gerets isn't solid enough defensively to cover for Beckenbauer's offensive forays.

Reason for dropping van Hanegem: He's slower and less mobile than Masopust. And I don't need his passing ability here - I have that covered, really.

Reason for dropping Zagallo: I don't need his particular traits here. What I need is much more in line with what Finney offers, i.e. someone who can play as a traditional winger (including first rate delivery on crosses) but who also constitutes a significant goal threat.

Key point (attack): Ronaldo is now flanked by two players who will cut inside and be a presence centrally/in the box - which should suit his style well: He will roam, as per default, but he will have two nominal wingers either side who both naturally drift into the middle (and who are both excellent finishers).

Ecstatic

• Striker- Ballon d'Or complete and excellent in the air
• Creativity & Disclaimer: Platini and Cantona are both very different but the idea is to provide the team with the French flair
• Two B2B - Tigana/Platini a proven partnership and Breitner your typical Ferguson player
• Captain - Breitner
• Fierce CB
• Cafu-Beckham cooperation
• Conclusion - a team full of energy who will play in a straight-forward manner. No time to lose really

 

[Michaelf7777777]

@Chesterlestreet @Ecstatic

 

[Ecstatic]

Thanks @Michaelf7777777
All the best @Chesterlestreet

 

[Ecstatic]

CAPTAIN BREITNER

PUNCHY MODE IN THE 70S


ORGANIZER MODE IN THE 80S

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Platini vs Kaiser

 

[Synco]

Ronaldo vs Figueroa
Cafu vs Facchetti

Great matchup.

 

[Ecstatic]

FOCUS ON THE RIGHT WING

1) Illustration of his work-rate and skills

2) As you can see, David likes to enter inside and enable the right-back to offensively contibute

Figueroa >>>>> Beckham

>>>>> Cafu receives the ball from David who subsequently will join the right wing

Cafu who passes to Platini while Beckam running

Platini-Beckham

Platini-Schevchenko-Beckham

 

[Ecstatic]

Tigana with Platini


Giggs - the reference game

 

[Ecstatic]

My team is obviously self-explanatory

The presentation of the 4 new players in this draft (Breitner, Beckham, Giggs and Tigana) is done

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

This was really tough to decide and I almost didn't want to vote.

But gave it to Ecstatic at the end as that defense is just too notch.

 

[Himannv]

Personally I think Ecstatic is short of a forward there. I definitely preferred previous versions of this team with Kaka in it. Now I think the whole thing relies on Platini and Beckenbauer will be defending him so I gave this one to Chester. The only question mark with his team is whether Ronaldo is at his best up front alone - there's no doubt he'd play that role well enough though.

 

[harms]

Personally I think Ecstatic is short of a forward there. I definitely preferred previous versions of this team with Kaka in it. Now I think the whole thing relies on Platini and Beckenbauer will be defending him so I gave this one to Chester. The only question mark with his team is whether Ronaldo is at his best up front alone - there's no doubt he'd play that role well enough though.

To be fair, Breitner scored tons of goals if this is his 80’s version.

 

[harms]

Voted for Ecstatic — I don’t rate neither Costacurta nor Chumpitaz as true all-time greats, although both would be fine as side-kicks for a greater defender even in all-time drafts. And Sheva is set up fantastically to cause as much damage as possible here.

On the other hand, Figueroa-Förster is a brilliant pairing and I really like how dense that midfield becomes with Beckham and Junior joining in.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

I don’t rate neither Costacurta nor Chumpitaz as true all-time greats, although both would be fine as side-kicks for a greater defender even in all-time drafts

Yea a better replacement was needed than Chumpitaz

 

[Synco]

I think Finney (at least going by recent draft consensus) is a damn good upgrade to Zagallo. A more forward-like winger giving the front three more fluidity, which imo will benefit Ronaldo.

 

[Synco]

Any opinions on Facchetti/Finney vs Cafu/Beckham? I'd expect a lot happening down that flank.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Platini vs Kaiser

Kaiser vs Charlton vibes - of sorts.

But I guess I don't prefer that here - I'd rather have both of them operate a bit more freely, rather than cancelling each other out, as it were.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Kaiser vs Charlton vibes - of sorts.

But I guess I don't prefer that here - I'd rather have both of them operate a bit more freely, rather than cancelling each other out, as it were.

Nah it's perfect. The reason I felt it was a perfect transition is you would run into goat No. 10's as the draft moves forward.

A better CB there and that would have been enough to tilt mg vote your way.

Irrespective of that, I'd be really happy if I built that team.

So many favs there - Finney/Littbarski/Masopust/Gerets

 

[Chesterlestreet]

A more forward-like winger giving the front three more fluidity, which imo will benefit Ronaldo.

That was the idea - yep.

Finney played as an actual CF at times during his career - and was always an unorthodox nominal winger (or outside wide player) for his time. And was an excellent finisher with a very decent GPG ratio.

But it obviously comes down to how well he's received - as such.

He's one of the greatest English players ever by common consensus - precisely how great is another matter. That will depend on who you ask - and probably also on whether they're English or not. Not to mention how old they are. But for me, overall, Finney belongs to a very small bracket of players which also includes Moore, Charlton and Matthews. He's in that territory - and that is not an uncommon opinion.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

I am not a fan of the Breitner Tigana midfield though. The last time I said something like this ages ago, it lead to huge unhealthy debates, so I won't stress on why, but not a fan for sure.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Irrespective of that, I'd be really happy if I built that team.

Thanks, mate - I kind of like it myself. Has some flaws in a GOAT-ish setting, but yeah - I like it.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

I think Finney (at least going by recent draft consensus) is a damn good upgrade to Zagallo. A more forward-like winger giving the front three more fluidity, which imo will benefit Ronaldo.

Agreed.

 

[Synco]

That was the idea - yep.

Finney played as an actual CF at times during his career - and was always an unorthodox nominal winger (or outside wide player) for his time. And was an excellent finisher with a very decent GPG ratio.

But it obviously comes down to how well he's received - as such.

He's one of the greatest English players ever by common consensus - precisely how great is another matter. That will depend on who you ask - and probably also on whether they're English or not. Not to mention how old they are. But for me, overall, Finney belongs to a very small bracket of players which also includes Moore, Charlton and Matthews. He's in that territory - and that is not an uncommon opinion.

That's is my pretty much current picture of him as well, including the last paragraph. Such a pity that full game material is so rare before the 60s. So many players & teams I'd love to know more about.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

I am not a fan of the Breitner Tigana midfield though. The last time I said something like this ages ago, it lead to huge unhealthy debates, so I won't stress on why, but not a fan for sure.

Wasn't around for said debates - but I'm intrigued.

What's the problem? Seems like a fairly plausible combo (of first rate players) to me.

You can perhaps question how effective Tigana actually would be offensively in this setup.

Like I said in the main draft thread, I might have gone for him myself - as a replacement for Dunga. But he does have traits which make him a plausible enough box-to-boxer (which is his role here, as I take it).

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

What's the problem? Seems like a fairly plausible combo

An all time great No. 10 demands a dedicated holder IMO. Two B2B players just doesn't offer perfect cover IMO. It's okay many times, but someone like Rivera should be respected more by the opposition IMO. Figueroa-Forster is excellent cover of course, but they will have their hands full with Fenomeno, so won't be able to sweep behind IMO.

Yes, I realize I used IMO 4 times. That is to stress I am not looking for a debate. Just stating my opinion

 

[harms]

I am not a fan of the Breitner Tigana midfield though. The last time I said something like this ages ago, it lead to huge unhealthy debates, so I won't stress on why, but not a fan for sure.

I understand where you're coming from but then again, Tigana (unlike Breitner) can easily be sacrificed and put into a purely defensive role. Especially with Beckham as a kind of a RW/RM hybrid.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

I understand where you're coming from but then again, Tigana (unlike Breitner) can easily be sacrificed and put into a purely defensive role. Especially with Beckham as a kind of a RW/RM hybrid.

He can be, but the OP clearly states two B2B

 

[Chesterlestreet]

For those interested in numbers, Finney's GPG ratio is close to 0.45 for his entire career. Which is slightly worse than - say - Stoichkov. And significantly better than - say - Boniek.

Bottom line - he's a clear goal threat. And also a player whose natural game includes cutting in from wide areas regularly, taking up positions in/around the box (which would be the positions abandoned by Ronaldo when he goes roaming).

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Tigana (unlike Breitner) can easily be sacrificed and put into a purely defensive role

As GSTQ says above, though - he doesn't seem to be playing that role here.

Not that it matters much - I can buy Tigana in a b2b role. He may not be a positively great fit for it, but he isn't a misfit either.

But it seems wrong to interpret his role - here - as "purely defensive", as you put it. Sure, he could be used as a pure DM - but he isn't actually used as such here according to the description.

Like I said above, I might have gone for him (if I hadn't been stupid enough to let him pass under the radar) myself - and if so, I would have simply used him in the Dunga role from my last match, i.e. as a DM/CM (a holder with skills, you might say).

I would not have used him in the Beckenbauer/Masopust role(s), as per my current setup.

If I had picked Tigana, I would have - simply - replaced Dunga with him and gone for a v. Hanegem/Tigana combo behind Rivera (no box-to-box shit). And - of course - Beckenbauer back at CB/libero.

 

[Ecstatic]

Personally I think Ecstatic is short of a forward there. I definitely preferred previous versions of this team with Kaka in it. Now I think the whole thing relies on Platini and Beckenbauer will be defending him so I gave this one to Chester. The only question mark with his team is whether Ronaldo is at his best up front alone - there's no doubt he'd play that role well enough though.

I did think about that. If I had Zidane instead of Platini for example, I would have said yes. In the video in the OP, you can see that Prime Giggs was both a winger and somebody who regularly join the penalty area. The stats of Platini or his performance at the Euro 1984 show that he can play high. Then there is a French specialist in short pieces and a British in long ones.

In any system, there are pros and cons.I don't see a lot of goals in this game but the offensive style is more diversified i.e. Beckham and Giggs don't need Platini to make a striker shine or initiate a counter-attack.

And Sheva is set up fantastically to cause as much damage as possible here.

On the other hand, Figueroa-Förster is a brilliant pairing and I really like how dense that midfield becomes with Beckham and Junior joining in.

Thanks!

Any opinions on Facchetti/Finney vs Cafu/Beckham? I'd expect a lot happening down that flank.

Fachetti is very strong physically. Tight man marking from what I see. Contrary to Jairzinho who will challenge him every time, I can imagine Beckham (1) generally trying to avoid him and delivering crosses several metres away from the Italian, or (2) circumvert him when possible.

Both RB can rely on lateral midfielers/wingers in terms of defensive contribution I would assume.

An all time great No. 10 demands a dedicated holder IMO. Two B2B players just doesn't offer perfect cover IMO. It's okay many times, but someone like Rivera should be respected more by the opposition IMO. Figueroa-Forster is excellent cover of course, but they will have their hands full with Fenomeno, so won't be able to sweep behind IMO.

Yes, I realize I used IMO 4 times. That is to stress I am not looking for a debate. Just stating my opinion

The question are "Can Tigana or/and Breitner organise the team? Are they tactically smart?" I would say yes IMO (4 times too)

If I think about a player like Vieira: is he a B2B or a holder? Or is he both? I would classify him as a B2B given his work rate and because he would harass offensive players.

2 Vieiras to support a number 10, not so bad for my taste!

 

[Ecstatic]

The team I made was initilly planned before the reinforcement round. Otherwise, I would have taken Paul Ince instead of Tigana to be capable to make interesting gifs

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Anyway - gotta drink now.

@Ecstatic I love how you have incorporated Beckham and Giggs - and I love your back four (big fan of Junior, as mentioned before). I also love the fact that Kaka is gone - didn't mention it last time, but I'm not big on Kaka...I think he's somewhat overrated for one thing, and he's obviously hard to use 100% right too.

See you tomorrow - will check on how it turned out, but I can probably congratulate you here and now. Well played, at any rate - well played.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Think Ecstatic has over-engineered his team a bit.
Junior/Breitner are two very similar players and on the same flank, they offer something overlapping rather than complementary.
Having Beckham kinda pushed Tigana into a holding role. Not that he can't do it, but really that's not using his peak skills.

As to Pat, nothing to complain about his team. Like the '66 version of Kaiser. Not sure why he picked up Masopust when he already had van Hanegem. Probably could have tried for a #10 upgrade.

Despite the above the sheer abundance of opportunity creating players and that super solid defence kinda edges it for Ecstatic.

 

[Synco]

I did think about that. If I had Zidane instead of Platini for example, I would have said yes. In the video in the OP, you can see that Prime Giggs was both a winger and somebody who regularly join the penalty area. The stats of Platini or his performance at the Euro 1984 show that he can play high. Then there is a French specialist in short pieces and a British in long ones.

Agree, I think Platini and Sheva are a menacing and very flexible duo for the 9/9,5/10 spaces. Which they can fully live out with the strong wings and Breitner in the center. I'd still expect Platini to pop up all over midfield too, from what I've seen he just had a strong allround presence everywhere.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

I don’t rate neither Costacurta nor Chumpitaz as true all-time greats, although both would be fine as side-kicks for a greater defender even in all-time drafts.

Chumpitaz would not be fine as a side kick in my opinion. He's a defence leader - period. You don't play him as some sort of underling to a "greater defender". If he isn't good enough - depending on the context - to lead your defence, you replace him, you don't play him as a sidekick.

Costacurta is a completely different kettle of fish. He is - as I said in the OP - a world class sidekick. There aren't many like him - but they do exist. I actually have another one in my squad.

Chumpitaz isn't a plausible sidekick at all, though - not even in a fantasy setting.

 

[Physiocrat]

From what I have seen Masopust was more of playmaking 8 so seems an odd choice behind Rivera. I expected van Hanegem there instead who seems to fit better as he had more of a B2B style.

That said Breitner and Tigana don't seem a 100% clean partnership either although having more of a hardworking midfield four makes it work better.

 

[harms]

Chumpitaz would not be fine as a side kick in my opinion. He's a defence leader - period. You don't play him as some sort of underling to a "greater defender". If he isn't good enough - depending on the context - to lead your defence, you replace him, you don't play him as a sidekick.

Costacurta is a completely different kettle of fish. He is - as I said in the OP - a world class sidekick. There aren't many like him - but they do exist. I actually have another one in my squad.

Chumpitaz isn't a plausible sidekick at all, though - not even in a fantasy setting.

Fair enough. He certainly was a captain and a very commanding/organising figure.

 

[Gio]

Chester's pack-shuffling is interesting but seems sideways-manoeuvring and squad-bolstering rather than taking that next step forward. Still, like the addition of Finney there - offers some more punch and variety to draw the attention away from although I think I'd still want another big hitter in that attack and defensive lines. The Chumpitaz/Costacurta partnership is spot on and I really don't see them conceding space to Shevchenko here. That said, he has a cracking set-up behind him, and it's a really true 4-4-1-1 from Ecstatic. I like the commitment to midfield control, bit of a sucker for the extra midfielder there in place of another shiny forward.

 

[Himannv]

Voted for Ecstatic — I don’t rate neither Costacurta nor Chumpitaz as true all-time greats, although both would be fine as side-kicks for a greater defender even in all-time drafts.

Chumpitaz get's a raw deal on here because of his height, but if he's not up against some giraffe he'd be spectacular I think. He's an excellent stopper and a really strong and solid CB plus he has good anticipation and he's alright on the ball. Agree regarding Costacurta.

 

[Himannv]

I did think about that. If I had Zidane instead of Platini for example, I would have said yes. In the video in the OP, you can see that Prime Giggs was both a winger and somebody who regularly join the penalty area. The stats of Platini or his performance at the Euro 1984 show that he can play high. Then there is a French specialist in short pieces and a British in long ones.

In any system, there are pros and cons.I don't see a lot of goals in this game but the offensive style is more diversified i.e. Beckham and Giggs don't need Platini to make a striker shine or initiate a counter-attack.

I do count Platini as one of your main attackers, but the team setup is really defensive. I mean it's almost like a 4-4-2 with a withdrawn SS. I do get your point about Giggsy, but he's not a forward so the general position he'd occupy is deeper and towards the left. I'm not saying it's not a good setup - it is. Just that I feel you could have thrown in one more forward since it's a Platini team and he's played in exactly those sort of conditions at his best.