2023 Sheep Draft QF - Pat_Mustard vs. NM

[Michaelf7777777]

Pat_Mustard:

NM:

Pat_Mustard Tactics:

Formation: 4-3-3 False 9

• Our defence is substantially improved since our first match. with the quick, rugged Ciro Ferrara coming back from injury to form a complementary partnership with smooth organiser Hansen. Ferrara's record against Batistuta is an impressive one on paper, limiting him to only 3 goals in 18 matches. Philipp Lahm comes in at RB and looks set to have an influential match here against a narrow opposition formation. Barthez takes over from the injured Southall, and while I'd rate Southall higher overall, Barthez' confidence with the ball at his feet and in moving off his line will enable us to push our line forward and play more aggressively during possession phases.
• Our midfield is both defensively robust and incisive, with the consumate DM Voronin, B2B dynamo Vidal, and the magnificent needle-player Modric.
• Socrates effectively has a free role here as a False 9, a role he has played for Brazil before. Wonderfully creative with a nose for goal himself, he'll be our main creative outlet in the final third, looking to play in the prolific wide attackers Rensenbrink and Salah. NM's new sigining Scirea is undoubtedly in the upper echelon of defensive organisers, but Socrates had his moments against him when they faced off at WC 82, leaving him flat-footed to score his goal, having another goal ruled out for offside and generally causing headaches with his incisive movement and passing.

NM Tactics:

Defense: Two world class CBs in Tresor and Scirea. Both being very good on the ball means that every single player on the team is a threat to break lines when we have it. On the flanks, Junior and Carlos Alberto will provide the width and creativity. Busquests as a screen and the 2 Box to Box midfielders mean that they shouldn't be exposed when they attack.

Midfield: A diamond with Busquests at the base, two B2B midfielders with Vieira and Bremner, and Laudrup given creative freedom at the tip. Focus is to control the midfield as the full-backs provide width. The creative outlets are Laudrup, Carlos Alberto and Junior. The setup is to give Laudrup and the full backs maximum freedom to feed the strikers.

Attack: Batistuta is the complete striker and Romario will play off him. Between the two of them, goals galore! I think the combination (with the full backs feeding them and Laudrup doing his thing is guaranteed goals.

Also my boys will be out for revenge in this game! Never forget that. We have Carlos Alberto back and have an actual formation this time!

 

[Michaelf7777777]

@Pat_Mustard @NM

 

[NM]

A false 9 and no number 10 will really allow Scirea to be influential on the ball and off it IMO.

I don't think 1982 world cup is a fair barometer - offside goals don't count. If so, Pippo Inzaghi would be the GOAT

In addition, there is no Falcao or Zico in that midfield. With respect, Modric and Vidal are not as attacking minded. Socrates also had a CF in that game. Here I don't see him being successful as a false 9. Actually makes my two CBs life much easier imo.

 

[NM]

@Michaelf7777777 thoughts on your vote?

 

[Physiocrat]

@Pat_Mustard

Do you have more on Dietz?

 

[NM]

@Pat_Mustard

Do you have more on Dietz?

Dietz is shietz

 

[Michaelf7777777]

@Michaelf7777777 thoughts on your vote?

Neither Junior or Carlos Alberto are ideal fullbacks (although not weaknesses per se) for a narrow formation with Junior preferring to invert and Carlos Alberto being more of a play making fullback from what I know of him. This means that the biggest weakness in the opponent's side (Dietz) is not taken full advantage of. Furthermore I do not rate Busquets that highly by comparison which should give Pat_Mustard an advantage in the midfield battle. I might have voted for you if you had gone for a 4-2-2-2 with Vieira and Bremner at the base of midfield with Laudrup and Czibor ahead (Czibor playing a similar role to Littbarski in the 1990 West Germany side where he is officially a #10 but in practice is alternating throughout the game which wing he is attacking down).

 

[Synco]

@Pat_Mustard

Seems to me Socrates is the most important player of your team. Am I wrong assuming a Cruyff role of sorts there?

And can you give some more info on how he played this role for Brazil & what he'd (not) do in your offense? (Must say I'm a bit sceptical, but could be swayed by a good argument based on the player's traits & tactical history.) I know it's technically in the OP, but I struggle a bit to imagine it in more detail.

 

[Gio]

I always thought Socrates would have been good at doing what Fabregas did for Spain 2010-2012 as a false 9 of sorts with loads of playmakers floating around him. But to be honest I'm not sure how he would fare in this sort of set-up and like Synco probably need to understand him a bit better.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

@Pat_Mustard

Seems to me Socrates is the most important player of your team. Am I wrong assuming a Cruyff role of sorts there?

And can you give some more info on how he played this role for Brazil & what he'd (not) do in your offense? (Must say I'm a bit sceptical, but could be swayed by a good argument based on the player's traits & tactical history.) I know it's technically in the OP, but I struggle a bit to imagine it in more detail.

I always thought Socrates would have been good at doing what Fabregas did for Spain 2010-2012 as a false 9 of sorts with loads of playmakers floating around him. But to be honest I'm not sure how he would fare in this sort of set-up and like Synco probably need to understand him a bit better.

Looking at some of the footage of him playing in this role, what surprised me was that he was significantly more orthodox and centre-forwardy than I'd have guessed. He did drop deep of course but was much happier in and around the box than I expected.

vs Uruguay:


1:50 - dropping off slightly in the box to play in a teammate
2:00 - simple CF headed flick on with his back to goal to release Zico
2:55 - finds space between CB and RB to score
3:22 - more F9-esque in this sequence, as he drops back to the centre circle to help in the build up to a goal
3:58 - scores his second in archetypal CF fashion with an easy header from a few yards out
6:13 - drops off smartly to try to play in the runners

vs Argentina:


An individual comp that shows a bit more of his movement and contains some nice bits of play. Drops quite deep and I think it shows how effective he could be in playing in pacey runners like Salah and Rensenbrink. Scores twice, the second a penalty, but I found it interesting and unexpected that his first was a bullet header from the edge of the six-yard box.

vs Paraguay:


Right at the beginning, you'll see him dropping deeper and orchestrating the first goal, then he scores a nice volley at the 2 minute mark. Footage is too short to really get much idea of his general involvement, but he apparently impressed:

Batista, Cerezo and Zico were the midfielders with Ze sergio and Tita as the wide men who also acted as the side midfielders.. In this game Socrates was the centre forward ( or false 9 ) and he impressed in this position with his hold up play and linking well with the midfield.

As regards his general characteristics for the role, I think one of his more underrated traits seems to have been the intelligence of his off-the-ball movement. I think his reputation is that of a languid old-school playmaker who constantly wants the ball to feet, but he seems to have had more depth than that. From this excellent minute-by-minute account of Brazil vs Italy WC 1982:

48 min We talk a lot about what Brazil do with the ball, not unreasonably, but their movement off the ball in this game has been outrageously good, particularly the late runs from midfield of Socrates and Falcao.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

@Pat_Mustard

Do you have more on Dietz?

Not an awful lot as regards my own observations - I'd planned to watch some of his Euro 80 matches but managed less than a full half, where he didn't really stand out at all either positively or negatively. As regards his traits and general reputation, here's his Kicker magazine review:

Bernard ‘Enatz’ Dietz started out as a left winger in 1970 playing for MSV Duisburg. In the summer of 1972 he was withdrawn to the left back position where he established himself as a very good attacking full back. A player with a pretty good technique, he was notable for his high work ethic and was unrelenting yet fair in one-on-one situations. In 17 years as a professional he was booked only 11 times and never sent-off. He is the defensive player with the highest amount of goals scored in Bundesliga history (76 goals). With his never say die mentality, dynamism, willingness to run and fight at all costs and self-sacrificial mentality he became one of the best left backs of the 1970s. He also managed to keep a high level of consistency between 1970 and 1985 when he almost never missed a game in all those years (played in 494 of 510 possible games). When Paul Breitner left for Spain after the 1974 World Cup Dietz became his successor in the left back position. He became captain of the German national team in 1978. In 1981 he expressed his dissent towards Jupp Derwall’s decision to bring Paul Breitner back to the national team. Derwall had decided to rely fully on Breitner and to build the team around his demands, something that Dietz was critical of. As a consequence, Derwall decided to drop Dietz, the captain of his team, and handed the captaincy to Karl-Heinz Rummenigge. An undeserving end to a great international career which had culminated in winning the European Championship in Italy just a year before. From 1982 onwards Bernard Dietz picked up the role of sweeper, as the full back position began to be too demanding for a player of 34 years at that time. As a sweeper for Schalke 04 he played until in 1987 and retired at the ripe age of 39 years.

His excellent goalscoring record is clearly his standout merit historically, and he seems to have consistently been the Bundesliga's best LB for a period, appearing in Kicker's Team of the Season in 6 seasons out of 7 between 1973-74 and 1979-80.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Neither Junior or Carlos Alberto are ideal fullbacks (although not weaknesses per se) for a narrow formation with Junior preferring to invert and Carlos Alberto being more of a play making fullback from what I know of him. This means that the biggest weakness in the opponent's side (Dietz) is not taken full advantage of. Furthermore I do not rate Busquets that highly by comparison which should give Pat_Mustard an advantage in the midfield battle. I might have voted for you if you had gone for a 4-2-2-2 with Vieira and Bremner at the base of midfield with Laudrup and Czibor ahead (Czibor playing a similar role to Littbarski in the 1990 West Germany side where he is officially a #10 but in practice is alternating throughout the game which wing he is attacking down).

I'd add that there doesn't seem to be a single left-footer in NM's team which isn't ideal, and that Bremner doesn't seem like someone that will provide much in the way of supplementary width in attack. As great as Laudrup and Romario were in tight spaces, it all seems like it could get quite congested.

 

[Synco]

Looking at some of the footage of him playing in this role, what surprised me was that he was significantly more orthodox and centre-forwardy than I'd have guessed. He did drop deep of course but was much happier in and around the box than I expected.

vs Uruguay:


1:50 - dropping off slightly in the box to play in a teammate
2:00 - simple CF headed flick on with his back to goal to release Zico
2:55 - finds space between CB and RB to score
3:22 - more F9-esque in this sequence, as he drops back to the centre circle to help in the build up to a goal
3:58 - scores his second in archetypal CF fashion with an easy header from a few yards out
6:13 - drops off smartly to try to play in the runners

vs Argentina:


An individual comp that shows a bit more of his movement and contains some nice bits of play. Drops quite deep and I think it shows how effective he could be in playing in pacey runners like Salah and Rensenbrink. Scores twice, the second a penalty, but I found it interesting and unexpected that his first was a bullet header from the edge of the six-yard box.

vs Paraguay:


Right at the beginning, you'll see him dropping deeper and orchestrating the first goal, then he scores a nice volley at the 2 minute mark. Footage is too short to really get much idea of his general involvement, but he apparently impressed:



As regards his general characteristics for the role, I think one of his more underrated traits seems to have been the intelligence of his off-the-ball movement. I think his reputation is that of a languid old-school playmaker who constantly wants the ball to feet, but he seems to have had more depth than that. From this excellent minute-by-minute account of Brazil vs Italy WC 1982:

Cheers, all the material combined, you're making a good case there. Impressed with the bits of the CF work, especially in the first video. Which was an important part of my question.

 

[Physiocrat]

Not an awful lot as regards my own observations - I'd planned to watch some of his Euro 80 matches but managed less than a full half, where he didn't really stand out at all either positively or negatively. As regards his traits and general reputation, here's his Kicker magazine review:



His excellent goalscoring record is clearly his standout merit historically, and he seems to have consistently been the Bundesliga's best LB for a period, appearing in Kicker's Team of the Season in 6 seasons out of 7 between 1973-74 and 1979-80.

Good stuff Pat.