4-Way v2 - SF: harms vs Pat

Who will win the match?


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Edgar Allan Pillow

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TEAM HARMS

I radically changed the system as I felt that it's a bit pointless to try to outplay Maradona & co in the middle. Instead, I went with containment tactics in the middle paired with doubled wings and mobile attackers. There's no better defensive scheme than 4-4-2, and it can be quite effective attacking-wise with the right personnel, which, I think, I have.

Alisson — a complete goalkeeper who combines great shot-stopping ability with great anticipation, decision-making and passing range
Laurent Blanc — albeit not quite on Baresi's level, he's still the best center back on the pitch, taking up his preferred covering role next to a physical stopper. Having a familiar face in Deschamps in front of him also helps
Carles Puyol — tough as nails, fast and quite adept with the ball, he's going to play as a stopper for me
Maxime Bossis — an incredible all-rounder — elegant and effective going forward, but also an exceptional defender on his own, be it at left back or centrally if there's a need to cover
César Azpilicueta — I'd say that he was a bit unlucky in terms of his club career, but he's a Chelsea legend already. Incredibly consistent, versatile, intelligent and brave — the case can be made for him to be the best right back of the PL era, certainly of the last decade
Didier Deschamps — the ultimate water-carrier that won everything, including Champions League with Marseille. I needed someone more mobile than Busquets for this scheme and there aren't many defensive midfielders that I'd pick ahead of the "boring" Frenchman
Johan Neeskens — the expansive box-to-box and one of the most complete players to ever step on a pitch. If Cruyff was the brain, he was the heart and the lungs of the Total Football. Here he's partnered with the other Johan, which should elevate his game on an insane level
Zbigniew Boniek — one of the trickiest forwards to play against, he was so good with his movement, dribbling and incisive passing. With Riva and Cruyff often occupying left channels, he will be roaming around the front line, looking for vulnerabilities
Bruno Conti — nicknamed MaraZico for his incredible skills on the ball, he combined Brazilian flair with Italian pragmatism and workrate. Like Boniek, he was capable of playing on either wing, but most of his threat would be coming from the right — I'd expect his crosses to find Riva (and Cruyff) quite often
Luigi Riva — one of the most complete strikers of all-time. Stupendously gifted goalscorer with a thunderous shot from both legs, dominant in the air, but also capable of peeling out wide and performing a dribbling run or sending a good cross centrally
Johan Cruyff — the smartest player of all-time that has a very suiting personnel all around him


TEAM PAT

Formation: 4-2-3-1

We change formation for this match from the much-maligned Christmas Tree to a 4-2-3-1 featuring a revamped right flank of Mani Kaltz and Gaizka Mendieta. The formation is lopsided in that new addition Mendieta will function more as a side midfielder, using his prodigious levels of graft and industry to support the midfield and cover his flank when necessary, while Neymar will operate further up the park as a wide attacker. I suspect that Harms might revert to a back four for this match as Neymar in particular looks tailor-made to exploit the vulnerabilities of the 3-4-3 diamond, but I still fancy our attack to be too hot to handle for that defence.
 

harms

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It's really hard to find anything wrong with @Pat_Mustard 's team. I even like the Mendieta sub, although I was very worried about van Hanegem, he suits Kaltz rather nicely, allowing him to fully express his attacking abilities. Sheva is also a great foil for Maradona and it's about time for him to get the plaudits he deserves, I think he's generally a bit underused in our little games.

The only potential issue I have is with Cruyff and Boniek targeting Santamaria, but that's just because I rate him only as a target man marker (not that Puyol is flawless on the other side of the pitch though, I'd say that they have a relatively similar profile).

I was so happy at the prospect of upgrading Busquets with Beckenbauer until @Moby killed my inner muppet with the reminder that the first 2 picks were being blocked :lol:
 

Šjor Bepo

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Ffs every game there is a van hanegem vid dominating against neeskens and now when they go mano a mano poor bastard gets benched :(
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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There's no better defensive scheme than 4-4-2, and it can be quite effective attacking-wise
Can you elaborate? I don't see a 4-4-2 as a defensively better system better than say a 4-2-3-1, unless you plan is to stay deep and play solely on the counter.

Had you stuck with the diamond and played

.............Cruyff..............
Masopust.....Neeskens
.........Deschamps..........

It probably might have been a better fit against Maradona and Pat's team.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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Don't really think Pat has upgraded well. Don't know if it's the constant criticism Van Hanegem received which I never agreed with, but he shouldn't have been dropped for me.

Like this version of Harms' team much better. As much as I am a sucker for a 3 man defense team, I didn't like either of the last 2 teams he put up. This one looks great to me.

While Matthaus against Cruyff looks a great extra defensive presence and Deschamps' presence against Diego looks worrisome, only one winner for me when it comes to a well built team.
 

harms

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Can you elaborate? I don't see a 4-4-2 as a defensively better system better than say a 4-2-3-1, unless you plan is to stay deep and play solely on the counter.

Had you stuck with the diamond and played

.............Cruyff..............
Masopust.....Neeskens
.........Deschamps..........

It probably might have been a better fit against Maradona and Pat's team.
It covers all the areas of the pitch better. Take a look at Sacchi or Simeone, or even Leicester in the year of their triumph. 4-2-3-1 is a formation that is not suited for high pressing, as you only have one forward up front — the opposition can easily play around him. 2 strikers with 2 wingers can force the opposition to hoof the ball forward if there's no one like Beckenbauer or Figueroa here, who can break the press with a piece of an individual skill.

As for a diamond — I don't rate my fullbacks highly enough attacking-wise to go with a traditional diamond and Neymar would've cost me too much if I were to go with 3-4-3 with either Puyol or Azpilicueta as an RCB. If I had managed to get Beckenbauer in Busquets' place, it would've been another matter as he would've boosted that defence to another level.
 

harms

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That Mendieta role looks familiar.
Looks a lot like your use of Gerrard, I agree. By the way, who else can be used like that? Neeskens, young Schuster, Bonhof?
 

Pat_Mustard

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A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
It's really hard to find anything wrong with @Pat_Mustard 's team. I even like the Mendieta sub, although I was very worried about van Hanegem, he suits Kaltz rather nicely, allowing him to fully express his attacking abilities. Sheva is also a great foil for Maradona and it's about time for him to get the plaudits he deserves, I think he's generally a bit underused in our little games.

The only potential issue I have is with Cruyff and Boniek targeting Santamaria, but that's just because I rate him only as a target man marker (not that Puyol is flawless on the other side of the pitch though, I'd say that they have a relatively similar profile).

I was so happy at the prospect of upgrading Busquets with Beckenbauer until @Moby killed my inner muppet with the reminder that the first 2 picks were being blocked :lol:
Sadly, with the switch to the back four and Deschamps coming in for Busquets I think you've made all the right decisions here. I'll probably get into some minor nitpicking later but that's an impressive team that you're fielding and this would doubtless be a close match.
 

Pat_Mustard

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A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
That Mendieta role looks familiar.
Looks a lot like your use of Gerrard, I agree. By the way, who else can be used like that? Neeskens, young Schuster, Bonhof?
What match are you thinking of Gio? I like all the names you mentioned there Harms, and Edgar's Gullit shout is a great one too. It would be slated in a draft match no doubt but the younger version of Keane would work brilliantly there in the right setup. He played at RB at times, was very effective at surging into space down that wing, and obviously would add tonnes of energy and defensive quality off the ball.
 
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Isotope

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Dang. Two very impressive teams. Well balanced from defence to attack. This most likely a draw in real game.
 

Gio

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@harms @Pat_Mustard It was the 70s draft from 8 years ago.



Michel, Luis Enrique, Beckham, Gullit.
Cracking shouts there.

Anyway lovely use of Mendieta, underrated player especially when you consider who he was competing with when winning those UEFA midfielder of the year awards - Keane, Davids, Zidane, Veron, Rui Costa, Scholes, Nedved, Redondo - all at the sharp end of European football.
 

Enigma_87

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Much better from @Pat_Mustard this time round.

I really like this team and appreciate the use of Mendieta.

Not really many concerns of the mechanics and can see it working.

Really like @harms team too, and that he switched to a back four. Can see it easily ending up as a draw in real life and not much between the two sides either way.

Boniek can cause problems for Kaltz, whilst Cruyff also should have advantage over Pat's pair.

On the other side Maradona would definitely have the edge over Deschamps, that and Matthaus can provide cover against Cruyff when he drops deep and also keep Neeskens busy when on the ball.

At the end of the day I rate Sheva and Dasayev a bit more than their counterparts and probably have the slight edge and preference to Pat's team.
 

Physiocrat

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Two really well crafted sides. I really like what Pat's done with Mendieta. I can't call it. Score draw IMO. Would be a great game to watch
 

Pat_Mustard

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A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
Ffs every game there is a van hanegem vid dominating against neeskens and now when they go mano a mano poor bastard gets benched :(
:lol: Aye, that is unfortunate in fairness.

Don't really think Pat has upgraded well. Don't know if it's the constant criticism Van Hanegem received which I never agreed with, but he shouldn't have been dropped for me.
It was partly the criticism and the usual desire to freshen things up, but I wasn't entirely happy with my right flank anyway, and I wanted both wings to carry an attacking threat as that probably would have been game over if Harms had carried on with the 3-4-3 diamond. I really like the balance of that Mendieta/Kaltz combination anyway. Mendieta rarely gets a run out in drafts but he was a monster around the turn of the millennium. Creative, incredibly hard-working and a credible goal threat too.

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Pat_Mustard

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A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
@harms @Pat_Mustard It was the 70s draft from 8 years ago.





Anyway lovely use of Mendieta, underrated player especially when you consider who he was competing with when winning those UEFA midfielder of the year awards - Keane, Davids, Zidane, Veron, Rui Costa, Scholes, Nedved, Redondo - all at the sharp end of European football.
:drool: That's basically pornographic for the early 2000s La Liga hipsters. Somehow crowbar in Valeron and that's most of my favourites accounted for. I'll bet @Cutch lapped that team up. I still wonder what might have been with Aimar. Absolute genius of a player but injuries and tactical shifts fecked him I guess.
 

Gio

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:drool: That's basically pornographic for the early 2000s La Liga hipsters. Somehow crowbar in Valeron and that's most of my favourites accounted for. I'll bet @Cutch lapped that team up. I still wonder what might have been with Aimar. Absolute genius of a player but injuries and tactical shifts fecked him I guess.
The Claudio Lopez pick was all Cutch. He PM-ed me when I was about to nab Vieri and sold the viritues of Piojo.
 

harms

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Congrats @Pat_Mustard! All the best in the final.
A fair result, never really expected anything from this game and I've got quite surprised with an early lead.

Quite happy with this draft, since I went with Roma & Del Bosque and didn't even get to pick his star players :lol: (missed out on Xavi because of my own stupidity though).
 

Pat_Mustard

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A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
Congrats @Pat_Mustard! All the best in the final.
A fair result, never really expected anything from this game and I've got quite surprised with an early lead.

Quite happy with this draft, since I went with Roma & Del Bosque and didn't even get to pick his star players :lol: (missed out on Xavi because of my own stupidity though).
Thanks mate. That was a fine team you built despite your challenging criteria and finding yourself at the bottom of the picking order. You did very well to revamp your lineup and tactics so effectively for this match too so it's fair that this was a close match.