4-Way v2: Sjor vs harms

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

VS

................................................ TEAM SJOR ................................................................................................................... TEAM HARMS .................................................

TEAM SJOR

TEAM SJOR/ENIGMA

Formation: 4-3-3
Style: Not tiki taka but still a possession heavy team. Two of the best midfielders to have played the game in Didi and Rijkaard will exert control in midfield with the help of de Bruyne and another two industrious wingers in Muller and Rensenbrink.

Player Profiles:
GK: Edwin van der Sar - IMO most intelligent keeper ever. Commanding the area, communication, organization second to none. Great keeper skills as well, great on the ball with a touch of sweeper keeper.
LB: Antonio Benarrivo - balanced full back, actively participating in the attack to help stretch the opposition defence.
RB: Bacary Sagna - balanced full back, stretch the opposition defence when on the ball.
CB: Gaetano Scirea - sweeper.
CB: Jose Santamaria - stopper.
DM: Frank Rijkaard - holding midfielder. Protect the back four and link the defence with midfield.
CM: Didi - playmaker. Controls the tempo.
AM/B2B: Kevin De Bruyne - in his natural role. Up and down with the freedom to drift right.
LF: Rob Rensenbrink - in his national team role, this time playing Robin to a better version of Batman.
RF: Thomas Muller - Thomas Muller.
F9: Lionel Messi - this days always shifted to the right, like his best version is forgotten a bit...not this time.

Defence: Compact defence bossed by italian gentleman Gaetano Scirea. Will be paired with a serial winner in the ink of Jose Santamaria. On the side of the greats we have Bacary Sagna on the right, in his team head and shoulders the best rightback in the Premier league while on the left is the beautiful bastard that is Antonio Benarrivo. Classic sweeper/stopper combination.

Midfield: Rijkaard will act as a protector of the backline, can drop back when needed or to cover for Scirea when he goes on one of his runs. In his WC 58 role where he was the best player of the tournament we have Didi running the show helped by the modern great Kevin De Bruyne who is pretty much playing in his Man City role. Those two assist machines combined with 91 goals in the calendar year, should be fun.

Attack: While i also prefer the wing Messi in terms of watching the player as he creates even more then he scores which is actually insane im a little bit tired of that version in draft, time for the beast to appear once again. Whole team is built around him as it should be, and while in real life he always had turds in defence this time he is being protected by the defensive GOATs.
But staying with the forward line we have Johan Cruyff's partner in crime Rob Rensenbrink on the left, proven as a great support player to a dominant figure on the pitch and a guy that excelled in if not the best(close) then surely the most attractive pressing sides in history of the game, big part of the reason why he was picked ahead of some other candidates(Beppe ). On the right we have the player i see as the perfect partner for the F9 Messi, defensive wise top notch but what sets him apart is his movement, almost undefendable at his peak. They once said that even Thomas Muller doesnt know where Thomas Muller will go. Of the ball movement second to none and what is also important he is happy to play without the ball, will offer constant movement which will create space for both him and Messi.

Key Strengths:

1. Individual quality - luckily we somehow got greats in almost every position
2. Tactics - they all fit to the system and should be nice fits for each other
3. Spine - Scirea Rijkaard Messi; i mean its almost impossible to get any better then that.

TEAM HARMS




I wanted to build a side around Cruyff but I grew a little tired of building the same 4-3-3 all over again, so I went with a diamond. Not a traditional one, but a Cruyff's one — the main differences are explained in the video by Johan himself. In short, although you all know this — if not from Cruyff's Barca than from van Gaal's Ajax:

• the width in attack is provided mainly by wingers. they also are responsible for tracking back, hence why I went with Conti (who has experience in a similar role in zona mista) and Boniek (with his fantastic workrate and tactical versatility)
• side midfielders are mostly playing centrally, albeit slightly wider than a traditional pairing in 4-4-2. both Tigana and Masopust feel quite comfortable out wide, but mainly their focus will be on moving the ball forward through the inside channels
• Cruyff is granted a full freedom here — he can drop deeper, go out wide or make a run into the box, since he's surrounded by multi-faceted players who can adjust to his movement with ease
• the backline is picked from players who'd thrive in a similar set up. Puyol is synonymous with Barca and spent his whole career playing in a high line of a possession-based side — and he also have a useful experience at right back. Bossis is one of the most versatile defenders of all-time and he was quite slick on the ball; his experience of playing in different position and excelling in a high-line in a possession-based French side will also be invaluable. Moore is, perhaps, an unusual choice, but when you look at the likes of Koeman or Blind (or even Pique if we're talking about more contemporary analogies) who were playing in those roles, I don't see why Moore could not. he was a better defender than any of those and his ball-playing skills were also top-notch. Peruzzi was also a keeper that often rushed from his goal to prevent dangerous situations, so he's a great choice for this

I also absolutely adore Riva, who is generally a bit underrated here (and overall), probably because he spent all of his career playing for Cagliari. He had won an unprecedented Serie A title with them and would've probably won more than one if not for that leg break. He and Cruyff never faced each other, but they were very close — if not for the Riva's injury, they probably would've met in the 1971 European Cup semi-final. Just to highlight Riva's reputation at the time, I'll give you 2 numbers:

• Cruyff had moved to Barcelona in 1973 for £922,000 — a world record transfer at the time
• Riva had turned down (for a second time) a transfer to Juventus in 1973, although Cagliari had accepted the offer — Juve were offering an incredible £1.5m!

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

@Šjor Bepo @harms All the best!

 

[Šjor Bepo]

good luck @harms , lovely team.

Know every second of that video inside out and i reckon by now @Invictus knows it as well He was explaining how they always had a midfielder moving to the fullback(tbf it was the opposite but lets say its the same) position when they had to defend. Who would that be in your team? You can switch to the LVG and use a DM that will drop back so that would be Busquets which isnt the best choice as much as i adore the man.
If nobody drops you could end up being 3v3 more often then not and that wont end well.

 

[harms]

Know every second of that video inside out and i reckon by now @Invictus knows it as well He was explaining how they always had a midfielder moving to the fullback(tbf it was the opposite but lets say its the same) position when they had to defend. Who would that bit in your team? You can switch to the LVG and use a DM that will drop back so that would be Busquets which isnt the best choice as much as i adore the man.

Tigana drops back to right back if needed, although both Masopust (to the left) and Busquets (to the center) are capable of doing it if the situation requires them to do it. I've seen him do that quite often, especially when he played on the wing (usually a right one) in a defensive role. Makes sense to push Puyol centrally when you form a back four, since Bossis is a natural out wide and right back was Puyol's secondary position.

Cheers! Your team is also quite nice, although I would've liked a more conservative approach with Lerby in Didi's place; there's something about Didi's style that doesn't really gel well with your team's identity — although it's obviously just my opinion and not a fact. He was so laid back and dominant on the ball, while the rest of your team is insanely direct and energetic.

 

[harms]

I want to say beforehand that Didi's spell at Real Madrid is retrospectively viewed pretty much from Di Stefano's position, as he was the one who had lasted longer and won the love and admiration of the Spanish press and the club itself. Still, even though the issues were exaggerated, Didi had a stylistic incomparability with Spanish football in the components that now make up the foundation of modern football itself.

He never played in a fast tempo, he never went into tackles and it worked pretty well for him — but I can't see this style being successfully implemented in a team with the likes of De Bruyne, Müller & Messi next to him.

Some of the quotes — and I want to highlight that most of them aren't a criticism of his style, which was quite effective when he played for Brazil, but rather a praise for an unorthodox view of the game.

The final against Sweden so showcased his immense ability to keep calm – when Sweden took the lead early on and the stadium lost it’s collective mind, Didi picked the ball out of the net, and with it under his arm slowly started walking back to the centre. Mario Zagallo came running to him and shouted “Come on Didi, we are losing” with an aim of making the great man move faster. Without a flicker of difference in his manner, Didi turned to him and told him “Calm down. We are still a better team than they are. We will turn this game around soon enough.” Four minutes later Brazil equalized. Before scoring four more without reply.

Didi was their general, their inspiration, and his mere presence spread a surreal calm amongst his teammates. He never looked flustered, he never looked hurried. In fact, even his style of play was dictated by that early injury... he abhorred physical contact and never slid in for a tackle or tried to strong-arm his way through defences. He used his brain to find spaces where most couldn’t and his ability to make sure he did exactly what was needed to exploit that space. He rarely ever liked to, as they say in the colloquial, “mix it up” .

The common perception revolving around the notion that he was not fast enough, not quick-thinking enough to fit into the European footballing scene... as La Vanguardia contemptuously put it "Didí has not yet managed the speed necessary to play in Spain". One match report even indicates that di Stefano got so tired of Didi’s laconic style that he used to take the ball off him just to hurry things along, or alternatively, to stamp his authority on the game and let the upstart know just who was boss.

Reflecting on his time in Real Madrid after the 1958 World Cup, he said, “The Spanish fans loved players who put in tackles and went to ground, and I never used to tackle anybody.” “My shirt and socks would still be spotless by the end of a match and they [the Spanish fans] couldn’t get their heads round it. I used to have to grab a handful of mud and smear it across my shirt. Why should I have to do that, when I could attack and put our strikers through on goal? The fans used to get so angry.”

Didi grew up poor, playing ball with other poor kids on the brown and beaten earth of Campos outside of Rio. There are no rules for playing a pick-up game in a slum; if you’re not the one doing the kicking, you’re the one getting kicked, or elbowed, or knocked down off the ball. Didi, when he was 14, took a kick to right knee during one of these pick-up games in Campos. It happens. If you don’t come away from a pick-up game with a few bruises or cuts, then you were not playing.

But this cut became corrupted, and the infection in his knee became so bad that doctors were seriously contemplating amputating the leg that would help take Brazil to consecutive World Cup titles when the boy was only 14. He kept the leg, and spent six months bound to a wheelchair recovering from the injury. It is only a few short years from now that he’ll sign for Fluminense, one of the giants of Brazilian football. That is the kind of man Didi was, and why he hated the idea of physicality reigning supreme in the sport he loved; it was aggressive play that almost cost him his leg, his way out of Campos, his way out of poverty, and he would never forget that. For Didi, the triumph of brain over brawn was not just an ideological view of how the game should be played, it was the embodiment of what he personally had worked so hard to overcome.

An injury as severe as that never goes away. Not truly. The pain in his leg would be so severe when he tried to shoot from distance that he had to develop an entirely new way of shooting the ball while he was at Fluminense. He would use the laces of his boot and shoot the ball in such a way that it would swerve and dip away from the goalkeeper at the last second, leading to his style of free-kick to be known as fohla seca, or ‘dry leaf’ for the way the ball fluttered in the air, bewitching goalkeepers (Click on this to watch Didi’s free kick). You can see Cristiano Ronaldo and Gareth Bale trying the same thing today.

 

[harms]

Also, Sagna is by far the weakest player on the pitch and I struggle to see how he's going to handle Boniek alone... let alone Masopust, Cruyff and Riva, all of whom loved that left-sided area. Like with Ajax, you had a more defensive right side with Swart, Neeskens & Suurbier and an unplayable flair combination of Keizer, Cruyff, Mühren and Krol on the left that usually ended up winning the game for them.

I also don't rate Santamaria that highly, so it's not like Sagna has a water-tight cover behind him... in fact, I think both him and Puyol are around the same level, both being slightly overrated due to their trophy cabinets. I love the curly bastard though.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

I thought Tigana would be the one to drop back(Masopust or Bus is a recipe for disaster) but i also feel its a bit of a waste as you would want Tigana all the time in the middle.

Id agree about Sagna probably being the worst on the pitch(id put Peruzzi there as well) but he was also a brilliant player at his peak that wasted his best years in a circus called Arsenal. He was like ABW with the actual ability to play football, great defender, good on the ball and great athletic/physical attributes. For a limited role he should be more then fine, specially given the fact he has a lot of protection around himself and he is facing a single threat(great one though) which will also have to do a great deal of defensive work to make your team work.

 

[Physiocrat]

I thought Tigana would be the one to drop back(Masopust or Bus is a recipe for disaster) but i also feel its a bit of a waste as you would want Tigana all the time in the middle.

Didn't Busquets drop into CB quite often under Pep? I seem to remember reading articles where he did that

 

[harms]

Didn't Busquets drop into CB quite often under Pep? I seem to remember reading articles where he did that

He did.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

As for Didi, while i think that article from previous draft is absolute BS how Di Stefano was jealous or something of those lines which is pure madness its also not fair to portray Didi as some maverick from Uruguayan league that has a great highlight reel so people think he is great while in fact he was a fraud.
He won shitloads of trophies in his career including the World Cup of which he was the best player. Based on that id say his football worked(and yes i didnt miss your highlight but trust me, when you read it it sounds, smells and looks like a criticism ).
vs Kopa and Fontaine
vs the great sweden side of Gren, Hamrin, Liedholm etc.

As for the compatibility for the team, while its true we have a lot of energetic and direct players in the team they all also played their best football in possession based teams and are all great on the ball* so he should be at home specially as he is been given the complete freedom in the middle of the park.


* id be honest and say i know feck all about Santamaria, enigma knows much more about him and he gets the credit for that pick so all the questions regarding Santamaria should be directed to enigma so please tag him. Other then that he wont participate in the debate.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Didn't Busquets drop into CB quite often under Pep? I seem to remember reading articles where he did that

Yes he did but not for reasons harms needs him to drop back. He was dropping back when in possession so the team can easily avoid being pressured, harms/cruyff essentially defended with the back 4 and only in possession that fourth player would move to midfield to create the diamond.

 

[harms]

Id agree about Sagna probably being the worst on the pitch(id put Peruzzi there as well) but he was also a brilliant player at his peak that wasted his best years in a circus called Arsenal.

Next to Sagna? You're having a laugh, surely. This is a 3-times Serie A Goalkeeper of the Year that was competing with the likes of Pagliuca, Buffon & Toldo. Van der Sar was literally brought in to replace him and failed to do so. Overall I'd rate Edwin higher, but Peruzzi was a fantastic keeper and it's ridiculous to even mention him in the same sentence as Sagna.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Next to Sagna? You're having a laugh, surely. This is a 3-times Serie A Goalkeeper of the Year that was competing with the likes of Pagliuca, Buffon & Toldo. Van der Sar was literally brought in to replace him and failed to do so. Overall I'd rate Edwin higher, but Peruzzi was a fantastic keeper and it's ridiculous to even mention him in the same sentence as Sagna.

Yes. Not peak Buffon first and foremost and i dont deny Peruzzi was a damn good keeper but he is not close to the historically great ones. Sagna was also 2 times in PL team of the season if we go by shit awards route. At the time he was the best rightback in the league, comfortably. Later he dropped form and continue to play long post his peak so people forget how good he was when at his best, similar thing happen and will happen in the future with Zabaleta for the same reasons.

 

[Gio]

Nice teams. Quality spine @Šjor Bepo, looks imposing. Cracking 3-4-3 in terms of the player fits @harms which are really important in more demanding formations. Sagna looks out of his depth which is a concern against such a proactive Cruyff-led left flank.

 

[Gio]

Next to Sagna? You're having a laugh, surely. This is a 3-times Serie A Goalkeeper of the Year that was competing with the likes of Pagliuca, Buffon & Toldo. Van der Sar was literally brought in to replace him and failed to do so. Overall I'd rate Edwin higher, but Peruzzi was a fantastic keeper and it's ridiculous to even mention him in the same sentence as Sagna.

The keepers would be better off swapping sides but I kind of agree with this. In an all-time debate, VDS falls short for me compared to the top 10 or so, mostly because those peak years underwhelmed. Class at Ajax and United but never really considered him as best in the world material.

 

[harms]

If I hadn't made a hilariously stupid miscalculation at the beginning of the draft when I've messed up the pick order, I wouldn't have rushed into picking Puyol so early and would've partnered Cruyff with Xavi Really wanted to pick those together in a Cruyff-esque diamond with a more defensive option a-la Netto on the left.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

The keepers would be better off swapping sides but I kind of agree with this. In an all-time debate, VDS falls short for me compared to the top 10 or so, mostly because those peak years underwhelmed. Class at Ajax and United but never really considered him as best in the world material.

sorry but i wouldnt swap VDS for a much better keeper then Peruzzi even if we take harms evaluation of him.

 

[DVG7]

@harms

can you tell me a bit more about Bossis in that LCB role?

 

[Šjor Bepo]

If you disassemble Puyol qualities he has almost every quality needed to be a great 1v1 defender yet we have a rich history of quality dribblers tearing him a new one - can only imagine what would one of the GOAT dribblers in Messi do to him considering Di Maria, Denilson and co. tore him to pieces.

Passes are from 7 years ago so its the young version not the current playmaking God

Love you Busi more then your mother loves you but you are getting fecked, lube up.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Rob Rensenbrink - in his national team role, this time playing Robin to a better version of Batman.

How dare you?

 

[harms]

@harms

can you tell me a bit more about Bossis in that LCB role?

What do you want to know in particular? I think it's pretty straight-forward.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

On the game, I have to complement @harms first. Its a terrific effort. Almost nailed it.

But there is one big issue and that is Busquets as the DM. He was used in a similar setup in the last draft as well and I remember not liking it. And here, he is up against Messi of all people.

And then, Busquets is a weak choice. With an attacking setup like this, you really need someone very strong defensively and with the energy to shuttle up and down into the midfield and defense regularly like Rijkaard used to in Van Gaal's 3-4-3 at Ajax. Can't see Busquets excelling at that.

For team @Šjor Bepo / @Enigma_87 , the only concern I see is the ball retention capability considering what the opposition boasts in its ranks. Retaining possession by press or holding for long wont work here because the opposition can do the same and have better pressers.

I think this will be very high scoring game. Tilting towards team Messi due to the Busquets factor. Opposition featuring Rijkaard against Cruyff also helps.

The one thing that might make this a draw for me would be that the quality difference in some positions works in Harms' favor. Will vote closer to deadline.

 

[harms]

But there is one big issue and that is Busquets as the DM. He was used in a similar setup in the last draft as well and I remember not liking it. And here, he is up against Messi of all people.

If you're recreating van Gaal's Ajax — yes. He is a better fit in Cruyff's original diamond, where the first quality he looks for in a defensive midfielder is his passing/ball-retaining ability. Not that I wouldn't prefer to have Rijkaard there, of course

I mean, he had Guardiola ahead of Koeman in the Dream team, which is a combination that by any known logic shouldn't have worked. Yet it somehow did. Messi is obviously a huge issue, although there aren't many DMs that can realistically limit him in a game.

My team's main defensive focus is on keeping the ball, not at defending 1 on 1 against Messi & co. While in Rijkaard/De Bruyne/Müller Sjor has a great base for a modern pressing side, Didi crashes the whole concept to pieces, as I've commented on earlier. And we all know that pressing is a thing that only works if everyone (especially central midfielders) work together as a unit — so my team, which consists of an exceptionally gifted passers and dribblers all over the pitch & the most pressing-resistant defensive midfielder of all-time (yes, I'd even have him ahead of Redondo/Rijkaard in that particular aspect), will find it easer to keep the ball for a long time.

As for Messi, I really hope that Moore would have a Nesta-esque performance at the back here. I think that Nesta resembled Moore quite a bit in terms of their skillset and approach to the game, both of them being, first of all, outstanding in purely defensive aspects of the game and neither of them playing as a true sweeper.

Just an example of what I hope to see here. Although I've just noticed that Edgar had missed the quote that I put in my OP:

I would rather win 5-4 than 1-0

 

[harms]

Opposition featuring Rijkaard against Cruyff also helps.

And a bit on that. While there's literally no one better to have as your defensive midfielder against an opposition's number 10 (-ish), Cruyff is not really against Rijkaard here. The beauty of this formation is that, offensively, there's a consistent attacking structure even if we take Cruyff out:
Boniek - Riva - Conti
Masopust - Tigana
Busquets

This means that Cruyff is literally free to go where he wants to — and there's hardly been a more devastating player to have in this role, as Cruyff's spatial and tactical awareness are literally second to none, even if we compare him to the likes of Pelé, Maradona & Messi. In this particular game I'd expect him to double up on Sagna quite a bit, for example, and probably doing a lot of stuff that I can't even imagine — that's why he's a genius, not me.

Sjor's team is very, very reliant on Rijkaard staying centrally. He's like Fernandinho (on steroids™), without whom the whole City's system crashes to bits — but in a place of David Silva you have a significantly less energetic Didi, so the amount of responsibility on Rijkaard doubles. So don't expect him to follow Cruyff around — although if he does, I'd call the game there and then.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Yea, fair points on Guardiola/dream team (although I still think Messi will have a great game here) and Rijkaard being overloaded here. The front 3 of Boniek/Riva/Conti all capable of pressing better helps too.

Think I might be tilting again. Will wait for Sjor/Enigma to respond before voting

 

[Šjor Bepo]

For team @Šjor Bepo / @Enigma_87 , the only concern I see is the ball retention capability considering what the opposition boasts in its ranks. Retaining possession by press or holding for long wont work here because the opposition can do the same and have better pressers.

Funny thing is, people build teams with 2 or 3 attacking players like Romario, Garrincha and co. snd never anyone mentions workrate and ball retention apart from me; now you have 9 out of 10 players that are immense at it and Didi who if you watch the footage rather then buy the Goebbels propaganda from Di Stefano’s mates you will see he is participating actively in the defensive phase and wins his fair share of possessions. Now, i wont pretend he is the Ngolo of the 60s but he isnt a fecking ozil like hes being portaited here.

On the other side of the coin we have better players in possession where all players fit to the system from 1-11 which isnt the case with harms as i wouldnt say Riva for all his qualities is a ideal partner for Cruyff and little Gino is crap on the ball and we all know how that part of the game is important for playing from the back with seeing the impact of Alisson and Ederson for our rival teams while watching every week De Gea and our turds butchering the same art.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Funny thing is, people build teams with 2 or 3 attacking players like Romario, Garrincha and co. snd never anyone mentions workrate and ball retention apart from me; now you have 9 out of 10 players that are immense at it and Didi who if you watch the footage rather then buy the Goebbels propaganda from Di Stefano’s mates you will see he is participating actively in the defensive phase and wins his fair share of possessions. Now, i wont pretend he is the Ngolo of the 60s but he isnt a fecking ozil like hes being portaited here.

On the other side of the coin we have better players in possession where all players fit to the system from 1-11 which isnt the case with harms as i wouldnt say Riva for all his qualities is a ideal partner for Cruyff and little Gino is crap on the ball and we all know how that part of the game is important for playing from the back with seeing the impact of Alisson and Ederson for our rival teams while watching every week De Gea and our turds butchering the same art.

Not really fair to compare the Garrincha/Romario teams as they are not as press dependent and usually should have a great base.

I agree that Didi had decent work rate, but I wouldn't call him someone who would press like a team player for 90 mins.

Still, not the worst option to have and having Rijkaard there is a huge bonus.

On team Harms, I don't mind the likes of Riva/Conti that much. Its different, but they all had flair along with their Italian attributes.

So essentially comes down to

1. Messi roasting Busquets
2. Ball retention of your midfield

I am giving this to team Sjor for now because the back 3 of harms leaves it way more susceptible to being opened up once Messi slips Busquets. I am putting huge weight on Rijkaard's shoulders but if anyone can pull it off, its him.

Was very close to calling this a draw or calling it a win for harms, but I do think this game deserves a result just for the pure attacking display on show.

I'll keep an eye out and post if I plan to change my vote. Cheers for the discussion both.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Id say every team needs to win the ball back so at some point the press and defensive workrate will matter in every team.

On the midfield debate, is everyone sleeping on De Bruyne? Even if you buy the propaganda of Didi being in ghost mode Rijkaard wont be home alone. Do i need to remind everyone what happened the last time they forgot Kevin?

 

[Šjor Bepo]

As for harms front three, he doesnt have one unless he doesnt want to end up like the dream team.

With fullbacks providing the width and mostly Benarrivo going up they will have to do a shit load of work and essentialy play as side midfielders rather then forwards.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Congrats harms, its a lovely team.

As for me, you really need to be special to lose with the team i have haha
Ohh well, at least i transformed enigma from a draft winner to a first rounder.

 

[harms]

On the midfield debate, is everyone sleeping on De Bruyne? Even if you buy the propaganda of Didi being in ghost mode Rijkaard wont be home alone. Do i need to remind everyone what happened the last time they forgot Kevin?

I mean I literally compared your midfield with City’s? And how they are dependent on Fernandinho even with a much more industrious partner as another number 8.

I don’t like to keep attacking Didi, as I rate him as a player — just not in your side. If I pick Didi, I build a side around him, it’s a side where he controls the tempo and has as much time on the ball as he wants. He’d be brilliant at PSG, for example, although that would probably mean that Neymar would be out — but he’ll never work for Klopp/Pep.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

I mean I literally compared your midfield with City’s? And how they are dependent on Fernandinho even with a much more industrious partner as another number 8.

I don’t like to keep attacking Didi, as I rate him as a player — just not in your side. If I pick Didi, I build a side around him, it’s a side where he controls the tempo and has as much time on the ball as he wants. He’d be brilliant at PSG, for example, although that would probably mean that Neymar would be out — but he’ll never work for Klopp/Pep.

Not interested in Didi debate anymore but will just finish that there is no chance David Silva is a better defensive player then Didi. I mean he is if you just drop a oldie into modern game but then again we are not doing that as then modrrn players would just dominate through first 3, 4 rounds of every draft.

To further compare with City, this front three is much stronger and better in press then the City side so if anything Rijkaard should have it easier then Fernandinho.

 

[2mufc0]

Didi rarely gets appreciated around here and 9 times out of ten is seen as a liability in draft games .

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Didi rarely gets appreciated around here and 9 times out of ten is seen as a liability in draft games .

To be fair, its really tough to pull a great team with him in it.

The last best one I saw was the one @Gio built and Neeskens gave him a lot of presence there. Need a figure like that to make Didi not look like a liability (like along with KdB here)

 

[DVG7]

What do you want to know in particular? I think it's pretty straight-forward.

I read up more on him and watched a few clips, I had it in my head he was a permanent fixture at right back. Carry on

 

[Synco]

Some thoughts on the Italians in @harms' side:

While Riva was a versatile striker who could shift position, dribble & pass, I'm not sure his control and link up play were quite smooth enough for a true possession side, and his instincts may be too direct. I think I'd prefer him in a more classic style (i.e. more emphasis on transition & more tolerance for directness/risk/turnovers). Defensively he'd be very good for a pressing system.

I suppose Conti would work very well there (more like Iniesta playing wide than a forward). Hard worker against the ball too.

But I agree with @Šjor Bepo that Peruzzi needs to be looked at in a game that will in large parts be a possession/pressing battle. I'd prefer a keeper like Valdes or Lehmann every time in this setup & against this opponent. If the opposition can pressurize Peruzzi into repeatedly punting the ball, it will disrupt his team's possession game. Rijkaard is also the most dominant aerial presence in the midfield area. Van der Sar on the other hand is a perfect fit.

 

[DVG7]

@harms that video of cruyff is absolutely spectacular.

I went for your side here because I can see Cruyff elevating the performances of a few of your players, particularly Busquets who will absolutely thrive in this set up. I Came across this video last night of him, it's an excellent watch and i'd expect De Bruyne and Messi to start giving him a little more time on the ball once he does this kind of thing a few times when they try to press him;

 

[Physiocrat]

@harms that video of cruyff is absolutely spectacular.

I went for your side here because I can see Cruyff elevating the performances of a few of your players, particularly Busquets who will absolutely thrive in this set up. I Came across this video last night of him, it's an excellent watch and i'd expect De Bruyne and Messi to start giving him a little more time on the ball once he does this kind of thing a few times when they try to press him;

That video is obscene

 

[harms]

@harms that video of cruyff is absolutely spectacular.

I went for your side here because I can see Cruyff elevating the performances of a few of your players, particularly Busquets who will absolutely thrive in this set up. I Came across this video last night of him, it's an excellent watch and i'd expect De Bruyne and Messi to start giving him a little more time on the ball once he does this kind of thing a few times when they try to press him;

I love that he only has 2 moves but somehow manages to keep the ball every time! I'm sure that he had made some mistakes over the years, but I genuinely can't remember him giving the possession away.

 

[Gio]

So essentially comes down to

1. Messi roasting Busquets
2. Ball retention of your midfield

I am giving this to team Sjor for now because the back 3 of harms leaves it way more susceptible to being opened up once Messi slips Busquets. I am putting huge weight on Rijkaard's shoulders but if anyone can pull it off, its him.

Aye, that was what swung it for me: the 1v1 capabilities of Messi against Busquets and equally Rensenbrink against Puyol (who is a tidy fit but could be exposed against a nimble dribbler in wide areas).