4 years without a trophy

matt10000

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We are officially 4 years without a trophy. In that time we have been in the EL twice where we have arguably the best team.

It's simply not good enough.

This isn't an Ole out thread or anything. It's a thread about the club.

It can't be tolerated. We nee to show some ambition. Build a proper team. A team that can win.

Our rebuilds take so long they never happen.

Whatever needs to be done the excuse simply need to stop. Whether that be additions or changes to the coaching staff or player etc etc.

For all the talk of Progress at the end of the day it's another poor season. We didn't progress where it mattered.


Approaching Lads it's only United vibes at this stage.
https://lastwonatrophy.co.uk/manchester-utd/
Jesus man, we gor tot the final and lost and penalties and aecond in league to a state funded unlimited resources bunch of cheats, or good enoufh? Hou sound lime a spoilt brat!
 

2 man midfield

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I can’t see anything about us. We’re totally nondescript as a side. I see no footballing ethos or approach. I think that’s my major gripe with the manager is all seems quite timid and passive and hoping our XI proves superior to theirs and I can’t see much else. Rarely does our football not seem laboured and limp.

We can praise the resolve and determination in constantly coming from behind but that is what a great team need to do occasionally, it’s not the foundations of a great team.

It’s what worries me about signings too. We could get great players in but there’s no system to slot them into. We’ll just be where we are with Fernandes, no idea how we’ll play but we’ll be okay if Bruno has a good game or Sancho or Kane or whoever else. I regret that I honestly cannot see more to his management after two and a half years than that
We’re definitely reliant on individual brilliance. My main criticism of Ole is that there’s no ethos running through the team, and we 100% need a lot of coaching, both in attack and defence. Defensively we’re all aware that we just cannot defend set pieces which falls on Ole, firstly because he continues to pick Lindelof and secondly because he has Harry fecking Maguire at his disposal and still can’t organise a back 4 to save his life. That’s not good enough.

But attacking wise we just don’t have any real plan. We couldn’t break Villarreal down the other night, and you know we could’ve played all night and not found the answer. There’s no attacking ideas beyond relying on a bit of magic really.

That said I still think we’re in a better place than 4 years ago, we’re a lot more consistent and the league finishes show that. We were 5th and 6th under LVG and Jose, now we’re 3rd and 2nd under Ole and in a stronger league as I said earlier.

The signs are there, and I think Ole is a great man manager who can oversee our way back to silverware, but he just needs to surround himself with the right coaches. I don’t believe SAF could coach a team how to defend set pieces, but he found someone who could. Ole needs to find his Queiroz, Meulensteen etc. I don’t think we’re as far away as some think, and sacking Ole and starting again would just take us back to square one.
 

laughtersassassin

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Jesus man, we gor tot the final and lost and penalties and aecond in league to a state funded unlimited resources bunch of cheats, or good enoufh? Hou sound lime a spoilt brat!
Yeah alright man. I'm talking about 1 final and not how the club has been poorly run for years.

Keep your head in the sand
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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How do you type your first sentence then your last sentence and manage to press post reply before collapsing in laughter at yourself?
I don’t necessarily agree with that post but you need to re-read it because it makes sense.
 

Hester_manc

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Even if that’s true it means we should be even further away from them than we were four years ago. It’s actually crazy that they keep spending as much as they do when they are so far ahead. They now have two 11’s that could win the league. Surely they have to slow down their spend at some point.

They have won almost all the trophies in that time.
I see your point. I was focusing on the 4 years only, not the whole picture.
 

UnofficialDevil

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I'm not anti Scottish, I just wanted Moyes out.
I don't think it's down to the manager. He was brave, put out his best 11. Our bench was pretty weak in comparison. We used to have strength in depth, we lack that, so he doesn't trust them. A new manager with this same squad won't win a prem or CL either.
For real? Our bench is better than their first team. Can you imagine Ole with Villareal’s squad? He wouldn’t even make top 10 let alone win the Europa cup against one of the most expensive squads in Europe (us). You are seriously underestimating our squad which is a fantastic one and more than capable of winning the Europa Cup, there is a reason we were clear favorites. We don’t lack a good squad, we lack a good manager.
 

snk123

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We're only 3-4 available players away from winning a couple of trophies a year. Sancho, Cristiano and Grealish away basically.
 

united_99

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It will happen, with the non oil clubs it can take time.
A huge club like Liverpool who had already won 6 CLs until 2005 went six years without a single trophy from 2006-2012 and seven years without one from 2012-2019. Make this 14 years between a major trophy (2005-2019).
But truth is that with two oil clubs in our league we are not going to win too many trophies anyway even with a top class manager. Best we can hope for is to get a manager like Klopp and win a couple of big trophies in 6 years.
 

SAFMUTD

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It will happen, with the non oil clubs it can take time.
A huge club like Liverpool who had already won 6 CLs until 2005 went six years without a single trophy from 2006-2012 and seven years without one from 2012-2019. Make this 14 years between a major trophy (2005-2019).
But truth is that with two oil clubs in our league we are not going to win too many trophies anyway even with a top class manager. Best we can hope for is to get a manager like Klopp and win a couple of big trophies in 6 years.
Stop this non sense narrative, this is not a case about the big oil club against a poor broke one. We have invested, it may not be as much as City but we've spent enough to have a better team.

Problem is we don't have top people running the club and on top of that we expect an average manager to beat one of the greatest managers in the history of the sport. We are sabotaging and fooling ourselves if we think Ole will ever reach that level, all the extra time we give him is wasted time.
 

jackal&hyde

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We are officially 4 years without a trophy. In that time we have been in the EL twice where we have arguably the best team.

It's simply not good enough.

This isn't an Ole out thread or anything. It's a thread about the club.

It can't be tolerated. We nee to show some ambition. Build a proper team. A team that can win.

Our rebuilds take so long they never happen.

Whatever needs to be done the excuse simply need to stop. Whether that be additions or changes to the coaching staff or player etc etc.

For all the talk of Progress at the end of the day it's another poor season. We didn't progress where it mattered.


Approaching Lads it's only United vibes at this stage.
https://lastwonatrophy.co.uk/manchester-utd/
We did. We just didn't get "there" yet. That is why it's called progress rather then success.
 

Godfather

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Stop this non sense narrative, this is not a case about the big oil club against a poor broke one. We have invested, it may not be as much as City but we've spent enough to have a better team.

Problem is we don't have top people running the club and on top of that we expect an average manager to beat one of the greatest managers in the history of the sport. We are sabotaging and fooling ourselves if we think Ole will ever reach that level, all the extra time we give him is wasted time.
Nail on the head.
 

laughtersassassin

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We did. We just didn't get "there" yet. That is why it's called progress rather then success.
Debatable. Before we where worse in the league better in the cups.

Now we are bette in the league worse in the cups.

There is progress in one way and regression in another.
 
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Mark_Barca

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We’re too good for the League Cup and Europa League, even though we can’t win them. It’s League and CL or nothing. We need to get of our fecking high horse and come to reality.
What is it 2 CL QF's in the last ten seasons?

On three occasions you've failed to get out CL groups in some weak groups.

Are you really too good for Europa League football or is that unfortunately your current level?
 

united_99

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Stop this non sense narrative, this is not a case about the big oil club against a poor broke one. We have invested, it may not be as much as City but we've spent enough to have a better team.

Problem is we don't have top people running the club and on top of that we expect an average manager to beat one of the greatest managers in the history of the sport. We are sabotaging and fooling ourselves if we think Ole will ever reach that level, all the extra time we give him is wasted time.
Stopped reading after the first five words as I have listed facts regarding trophies won or not won by Liverpool. This is the truth, not nonsense. Not my problem if you can’t deal with it.
 

jackal&hyde

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Debatable. Before we where worse in the league better in the cups.

Now we are bette Rin the league worse in the cups.

There is progress in one way and regression in another.
Trophies is what it's all about imo but the mother of all, the title, can only be won by consistency. When we won the league a thousand times I could care less about the FA or League Cup winner.

My worse fear about the club is becoming an Arsenal copy; seeing success as a cup here and there while being invisible in the title race. Nothing less then being the Champions should be acceptable for us and building the team has to have that as a focus. Everything else is just consolation.
 

Sandikan

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2 cup final defeats and 3 semi final defeats.
Small margins.

Just hope we actually improve the team this summer.
 

Samrat Mazumdar

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Honestly, with Ole our new upper level is Top 4 and maybe, just maybe a Europa where we pray we dont get a Spanish B grade side like a Sevilla or a Villareal or heck, even Sociedad. FA Cup and League Cup is out of the question, since we will have to face top rival PL clubs at some point in time and we dont have a well- coached squad to take them on. The PL will also become significantly tougher with fans returning and those comebacks drying up. All in all, I see a bleak decade ahead unless we change the manager with a quality one (not a culture change, progress kinda coach) and have some footballing objectives planted in the owners' minds
 

Leftback99

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For real? Our bench is better than their first team. Can you imagine Ole with Villareal’s squad? He wouldn’t even make top 10 let alone win the Europa cup against one of the most expensive squads in Europe (us). You are seriously underestimating our squad which is a fantastic one and more than capable of winning the Europa Cup, there is a reason we were clear favorites. We don’t lack a good squad, we lack a good manager.
If being clear favourites is down to the quality of players why is it only the manager's fault we lost the final?
 

Greck

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Jesus man, we gor tot the final and lost and penalties and aecond in league to a state funded unlimited resources bunch of cheats, or good enoufh? Hou sound lime a spoilt brat!
Wanting the occasional cup every 3-4 year average surely can't be enough to label one spoilt.

It's not like he's referring to this season alone. It's a period including 3 full years of prior failures
 
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laughtersassassin

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Trophies is what it's all about imo but the mother of all, the title, can only be won by consistency. When we won the league a thousand times I could care less about the FA or League Cup winner.

My worse fear about the club is becoming an Arsenal copy; seeing success as a cup here and there while being invisible in the title race. Nothing less then being the Champions should be acceptable for us and building the team has to have that as a focus. Everything else is just consolation.
And right now we are far behind both.
 

laughtersassassin

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What is the other cup final apart from europa league?
We lost to Chelsea in the FA cup final under Jose. The year after we won the Europa League.

So Since we last won a trophy we lost 2 finals. That said I think we had 4+ semi final defeats in that time?
 

SAFMUTD

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Stopped reading after the first five words as I have listed facts regarding trophies won or not won by Liverpool. This is the truth, not nonsense. Not my problem if you can’t deal with it.
If oil clubs were unstoppable then would won everything, they don't. But whatever let's you sleep at night.
 

dove

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People were laughing at Liverpool not winning the league for 30 years but we are getting there ourselves. Our decision making in terms of selecting the managers and buying players is terrible. Some of the club values and traditions that we have are holding us back massively too. If Ole get's his contract extended by 3 years as rumoured, it's a confirmation that we are not interested in winning major titles and are just happy to be somewhere relatively close. Our 2nd place this season masks a lot of our flaws too because we are as close to 7th as we are to 1st. Our fanbase seems to be content with us being mediocre which doesn't help either. There are people calling this season as "very good". In which parallel universe crashing out of CL groups, FA quarter finals and being as close to 7th as to 1st is a very good season for one of the biggest clubs in the world? How is this acceptable is beyond me. "Manager X needs at least 5 years and £800m for the players to implement his style and win something" is a common excuse in our fanbase. People laugh at the likes of Real Madrid but they are truly the biggest club in the world and all these nonsensical excuses we are constantly making for our managers would be laughed at.
 

FatTails

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Look, it's not ideal, but let's face it, the EL is not where we want to be in the first place.

It would have been great to pick up the trophy, but let's just congratulate Villareal, clearly it means a lot more to them.

We need to review why we're in the EL in the first place, we should be aiming to be playing on Saturday night.

The PL and the CL, that's where we judge our progress. Willing the EL wouldn't have changed what we need to do this summer to compete.
This makes no sense.

We put a lot of work to get to the final, stretched out squad, talked it up in the last few weeks, were lucky to get a favourable fixture as a final against a team of old rejects built on a shoestring budget, and then we lost a game in which we were heavy favourites.

Maybe it is your way of coping, but we wanted to win, we should’ve won, and we couldn’t. It is gutting, let’s not try to act like we never cared to win it.

Also, the two things are not mutually exclusive. We could’ve won the EL and tried to improve further to challenge in the PL and CL (where we are actually very, very, far from challenging)
 
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Sandikan

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What is the other cup final apart from europa league?
FA cup final v Chelsea 2018
Have you forgotten already?

Very similar season to this one.
Finished 2nd to City but miles behind, but comfortable over 3rd.

Just hope we learn from the mistakes of not improving that summer, and being overtaken.
 

hobbers

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People were laughing at Liverpool not winning the league for 30 years but we are getting there ourselves. Our decision making in terms of selecting the managers and buying players is terrible. Some of the club values and traditions that we have are holding us back massively too. If Ole get's his contract extended by 3 years as rumoured, it's a confirmation that we are not interested in winning major titles and are just happy to be somewhere relatively close. Our 2nd place this season masks a lot of our flaws too because we are as close to 7th as we are to 1st. Our fanbase seems to be content with us being mediocre which doesn't help either. There are people calling this season as "very good". In which parallel universe crashing out of CL groups, FA quarter finals and being as close to 7th as to 1st is a very good season for one of the biggest clubs in the world? How is this acceptable is beyond me. "Manager X needs at least 5 years and £800m for the players to implement his style and win something" is a common excuse in our fanbase. People laugh at the likes of Real Madrid but they are truly the biggest club in the world and all these nonsensical excuses we are constantly making for our managers would be laughed at.
Just plenty of fans who buy the Woodward propaganda and PR spin about cultural reboots and "making clear progress" and "going in the right direction".

And when we're in a worse position next season they'll buy the Richard Arnold propaganda that "even though we've slipped in the table the club are still striving forwards in other areas and will be back challenging for titles soon".
 

jackal&hyde

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If oil clubs were unstoppable then would won everything, they don't. But whatever let's you sleep at night.
If oil clubs were unstoppable then would won everything, they don't. But whatever let's you sleep at night.
Last 10 years in England. Oil club 5 titles (under different managers). 50% that is. Average of one every 2 seasons. Domination is the word. PSG in France I don't need to bother to write the results we all know them.

The only interesting point imo is the CL winner. King here is the club that looked for the most progressive manager while... No. It is the club that has looked to have the best first 11 in the World.
 

SAFMUTD

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Last 10 years in England. Oil club 5 titles (under different managers). 50% that is. Average of one every 2 seasons. Domination is the word. PSG in France I don't need to bother to write the results we all know them.

The only interesting point imo is the CL winner. King here is the club that looked for the most progressive manager while... No. It is the club that has looked to have the best first 11 in the World.
You only gave me the reason there mate, if they dominate 50% then there's another 50% to be taken. So its not valid to say well they're oil funded there's nothing we can do.

Still as obscene as PSG budget is in reference to other ligue 1 teams Lille still managed to beat them, so they're not invincible are they?