442 Draft - R1: Michael vs General Elegancia / Jim Beam

Who will win the match?


  • Total voters
    17
  • Poll closed .

Edgar Allan Pillow

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vs

.................................................. Team Micheal ................................................................................................................ Team Beam .....................................................

Team Michael

My team will play a counter attacking 4-4-2 formation.

The strength of my team is it's central spine (all of my outfield selections in this area were my first 6 selections). In goal we have the shot stopping and ball playing ability of Chilavert. In the center of defence I have McGrath and Pietro Vierchowod who was described by Maradona as his toughest opponent and by Marco van Basten as one of the two best defenders he ever faced. In the center of midfield Redondo will be both the primary ball winner and playmake from deep while Coluna will play more of a box to box role. Up front Francescoli will have a Cantona/Dalglish type role where he will be both a goalscoring threat and create chances for others particularly Spencer, Joya and Coluna. He will be partnered by Alberto Spencer the alltime top goalscorer in the Copa Libertadores who was best known for his pace and aerial ability (nicknamed magic head and considered by Pele to be a better header than him).

On the right hand side the more attacking of my two fullbacks will be Leandro and I aim to make full use of his long passing ability to create chances for Spencer. Leandro was also very solid defensively as outlined in this post by @GodShaveTheQueen a particular highlight of which was Carlos Alberto stating that Leandro had both his (Carlos Alberto's) offensive ability and the defensive ability of Djalma Santos. In front of him we have Julio Abbadie who I consider the greatest defensive winger of all time largely because of his role as shown in this post from @antohan in stopping both Gento and Amancio in the 1966 intercontinental cup final. Offensively he will use his intelligence to decide when to move forward, when to cross from deep and when to play Leandro through on the overlap.

On the left hand side, Denis Irwin will be the more defensive of my two fullbacks. This will give my left winger Juan Joya who was included in Penarol's all time team more license to attack with his pace, dribbling and goalscoring abilities.

Team Jim beam

Formation
: The English classic, the 4-4-2

Tactics: Balanced, but with quick transition and ability to hurt the opponent in multiple ways.

Strengths and personnel: Perfectly balanced combos and players that compliment each other beautifully. From stopper - sweeper combo in Virgil van Dijk and Karlheinz Förster to a world class partnership of Valery Voronin - Paul Breitner in the center of the pitch. In such partnership Voronin will be more reserved, sit between the defence and shield the defenders while still being capable of dictating the game alongside a creative, high energy and powerful dynamo in Paul Breitner who can either cut you open with a pass or a shot from distance at any given time.

On each side of them are pacy wide players in Jimmy Johnstone and Zoltan Czibor, each possessing a different set of problems for opposition defence stretching them wide.

Upfront again a combo who would thrive from each other. The strength and physicality of Alan Shearer matches perfectly with Jimmy Greaves ghosting style of play behind him and bursting into life as soon as there is a brief moment to hurt the opposition.

The purest finisher England has ever produced, Greaves functioned with deadly economy. Like nature’s great predators, there was nothing on his mind except the act of killing. The hunger it fed was a secondary consideration. In subsequent decades, Gerd Müller and Romário operated to similar effect – but both were rewarded with the honour so painfully denied to the Englishman: a World Cup winner’s medal awarded as the result of a starring role in a final.
And in that sense the physique is significant, for Greaves was in the vanguard – in England at least – of a new conception of what the centre-forward should be. He was not the classic English No 9. He was not Nat Lofthouse or Tommy Lawton. He was not some imposing physical presence there to batter away at the centre-half.

The British game had been about wingers beating their full-back and getting crosses into the box for the big No 9 but, as back fours neutralised them, new modes of attacking had to be found. Which is where forwards such as Clough and Greaves with their extraordinary goals records came in. Greaves scored 366 goals in 528 league games, Clough 251 in 274 (although only one of his goals came in the top flight).
“It was all about ghosting into space …” Greaves wrote in his autobiography, or “… taking up a position where I thought the ball was going to end up”.
In Alan Shearer, who is quite underrated in here, Greaves should have a perfect partner. And Shearer in equal way from Greaves style of play with defenders always wary of Jimmy's movement and ability to pop up at different places. Simply put, the best striker partnership that England can offer, in a good, old English 4-4-2.

And then you also count that machinery behind.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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That is an excellent team @General_Elegancia , but its not a 4-4-2, that is as good a 4-2-4 as it gets.

You would have lost my vote by now but I am not sure about Mike's 4-4-2 as well.

@Michaelf7777777 , as far as I have seen, Joya was also a really advanced player, almost a wing forward, am I missing something? And I have little clue of where Abbadie played, was he a wing forward or winger?
 

Michaelf7777777

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That is an excellent team @General_Elegancia , but its not a 4-4-2, that is as good a 4-2-4 as it gets.

You would have lost my vote by now but I am not sure about Mike's 4-4-2 as well.

@Michaelf7777777 , as far as I have seen, Joya was also a really advanced player, almost a wing forward, am I missing something? And I have little clue of where Abbadie played, was he a wing forward or winger?
Joya was a very attacking winger. He does however form a proven combination with Spencer. Abbadie started out as an outside right but later in his career (at 1960's Penarol) dropped deeper playing as more of a right sided midfielder with defensive responsibilities and as mentioned in the post linked in the openning post, Abbadie, according to the Penarol manager Maspoli had very good decision making skills around when to advance with the ball, when to cross from deep and when to release his RB to attack.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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Joya was a very attacking winger. He does however form a proven combination with Spencer. Abbadie started out as an outside right but later in his career (at 1960's Penarol) dropped deeper playing as more of a right sided midfielder with defensive responsibilities and as mentioned in the post linked in the openning post, Abbadie, according to the Penarol manager Maspoli had very good decision making skills around when to advance with the ball, when to cross from deep and when to release his RB to attack.
Excellent find on Abbadie - sold.
Not convinced on Joya in a 4-4-2 though, still closer to a 4-4-2 than your opponents, so wins my vote.
 

harms

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In Alan Shearer, who is quite underrated in here, Greaves should have a perfect partner. And Shearer in equal way from Greaves style of play with defenders always wary of Jimmy's movement and ability to pop up at different places. Simply put, the best striker partnership that England can offer, in a good, old English 4-4-2.
Good call. I'd say that Shearer is a great upgrade on Gilzean with whom Greaves had formed a legendary partnership.

... His father, however, was something else. Ian knew it, fans knew it. Jimmy Greaves knew it. When choosing to write about the subject of his enigmatic former strike partner for his Sunday People column, Greaves, who died at the weekend aged 81, described Alan Gilzean as “possibly the best footballer I ever played with” and “a blood brother,” although he also revealed he hadn’t seen his old pal for over 40 years.

“Few partnerships in English football can rival Greaves’s balanced blend with Alan Gilzean,” wrote football writer Henry Winter in 2015.
They have been reunited in the high stand now – Gillie doing Greavsie’s heading for him, Greavsie doing the running for both. That’s the way Gilzean said it tended to be when I spoke to him for a rare interview in The Scotsman in 2016.
He revealed he had recently met up with Greaves at a Spurs function and the bond felt as strong and as natural as it did in the 1960s, when they were dubbed the G-men and created havoc in opposition defences. They gelled instantly.
Gillie set up two goals for Greaves on his debut against Everton after arriving from Dundee in a £72,500 deal in late 1964. “We’ve got the G-men, Greaves and Gilzean/They’re the world’s best goalscoring machine,” became a well-known terracing chorus at the time.

“He is a super little guy,” Gillie told me. “Full of fun. Football was an entertainment for him, it was fun. Of all the people I have seen since, the only player I can compare him with is Messi - and Greavsie was faster."
After Greaves’ lavish praise for Gillie, the Scot was repaying the compliment. He described Greaves as his best striker partner although he had one weakness.
“He couldn’t header the ball, could he?!” he said. “I had to get up there and head them so he could run on to them. But what a super guy. We had laughs together. I was a hard trainer, but Greavsie did not have to train hard – he was just naturally fit. And lightning quick off the mark, over ten yards. And coolness under pressure in the box. So cool.
“I never saw him hit a rocket from 30 yards. He just rolled them into the net, in the corners, or walked round the keeper with the ball.”
 

Jim Beam

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I mean scrappy if you do have issues with Czibor then you have to have issues with Joya as well. Simple as that. Personally, I don't have issues with either except that Joya was right footed and loved to go to the middle a lot from the footage I seen which maybe doesn't bode that great with the way how Coluna operated. How do you not see Jinky as a right winger is a proper mystery as well. But, to each his own, we have very different views on a lot of things quite obviously and am past bothering. I do like how you made it sound that you gave it a proper thought though.


McGrath - Vierchowod pairing looks really, really good. But, tough luck there as Shearer had McGrath number even while he was a member of England under 21 and played for Southampton.

https://www.transfermarkt.com/alan-...ium=2&wettbewerb=&liga=&verein=&pos=&status=0

After first 2 games in which Shearer just properly started his striking career, in the next 5 games he scored 5 and assisted 1 goal or was involved in every single goal that McGrath led defence conceded in that period. He continued in the same fashion after 1994, but I reckon that wouldn’t be fair to count against McGrath considering their age/peaks at the time.

Now, even if you do factor Vierchowod help, you also need to factor that there is certain Jimmy Greaves behind Shearer who will simply take any chance that might occur around the opposition penalty area with the goalscoring instinct that he had.

Good call. I'd say that Shearer is a great upgrade on Gilzean with whom Greaves had formed a legendary partnership.
Read about their partnership a while ago and yeah, it's hard to imagine a better partner for Greaves based on how Gilzean was described. Maybe John Charles, but Shearer was, like Gilzean (or the way it's talked about him), more unpredictable and quirkier. Shearer while being a force of nature in his own right was also extremely agile and had that same superb heading ability. And then when you think you have a breather he had a knack for an occasional bomb from the distance.

I met Alex Del Piero who like myself could only speak in the most glowing of terms about Shearer. He'd terrorised the Juve defenders when the clubs met in Newcastle. They found him one of the most difficult opponents they had ever faced. The coach Marcello Lippi had been purring about Shearer's performance. So much so that his strikers Alex, David (Trezeguet) and Marcelo (Salas) were ordered to take home videos and study Shearer's display."

— Gabriel Batistuta on his admiration of Shearer, February 2003.[57]
And as I said, that's just Shearer. Coming in a package with Greaves to make things worse.

Do hope I will have time to say a bit more about Greaves tomorrow.


Edit: that Lippi home videos story gives me uncomfortable Jagielka/Moyes vibes tbh, might check that one to be sure :wenger:
 
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Šjor Bepo

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same, nothing wrong with Jinky in regard of 442....was pretty hardworking, shame he was a bit brainless(wingers eh) as well so not really the one for me. Czibor i can understand considering he played in a front 5 for most of the time.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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same, nothing wrong with Jinky in regard of 442....was pretty hardworking
Really? I looked at some Jinky stuff as I considered picking him but struggled to find any defensive work rate as such. And was usually one of the most forward players in the team (even off the ball waiting for counters.)

Take the below high profile game for example, you will struggle to find 1 instance of defensive work rate (there is only 1 at the end of the game)

 

Šjor Bepo

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Really? I looked at some Jinky stuff as I considered picking him but struggled to find any defensive work rate as such. And was usually one of the most forward players in the team (even off the ball waiting for counters.)

Take the below high profile game for example, you will struggle to find 1 instance of defensive work rate (there is only 1 at the end of the game)

I watched him 3, 4 times only but workrate was always decent at least, even in that friendly game we watched during dead drafters.
 

Himannv

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Really? I looked at some Jinky stuff as I considered picking him but struggled to find any defensive work rate as such. And was usually one of the most forward players in the team (even off the ball waiting for counters.)

Take the below high profile game for example, you will struggle to find 1 instance of defensive work rate (there is only 1 at the end of the game)

 

General_Elegancia

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@GodShaveTheQueen You’re correct about Jimmy Johnstone. I would agree that he never had a superb work rate(he had some but not superb) on defensive side. So, the problem was solved by Stein’s tactics that used more of a defensive oriented right back. He always used Jim Craig who was more defensive oriented to solve this problem on the right side and on the left side they had Gemmel who was an attacking fullback with a tremendous shot( he always shot). Mcgrain came to the Celtics, when Johnstone was in declined and he was more of defensive right back too.
 
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