80 League Goals

[Revan]

Van Basten was out for most of the season and they adjusted their style accordingly. You'll probably never see such a good defence, almost certainly the best ever assembled, paired with such a weak attack again.

There is adjusting the style accordingly, and then there is finishing in bottom half when it come to goals scored. They won the title though, but it must have been incredibly boring.

I guess just Capello being boring Capello. On the other side, they put 4 past Barca in the final of UCL (and apparently were not that bad that season there, scoring 21 goals in 12 matches.

 

[dal]

Absent injury, 80 goals next season is very achievable. But that is never going to be the case. We always seem to get 2-3 key injuries every season.

Need a quality Bruno back up, and Sancho. If both come, then I would say it's on.

Unfortunately, our lack of squad depth is our biggest issue.

But couldn’t Sancho and pogba share that duty if Bruno was our for a period? Even Greenwood?

We’d play a different way evidently but wouldn’t they be solid backup options?

Sancho and a WC centre back would be enough this year I think.

Next year we maybe get rid of more deadwood and optimise the squad accordingly.

 

[Skills]

We don't need 80. We got exactly 80 in 2008 with 57 coming from Ronaldo, Rooney and Tevez. Arguably the best season any team has ever seen in the PL, and we only just got there with 6 goals in the last 2 games. The other contender, 1999, also saw exactly 80 goals.

Looking back at the SAF years, it was not the number of goals scored or conceded that won us titles. Some of our best years were low scoring, some of our worst were high scoring. Even goal difference is not that closely tied. It was scraping the wins when most needed that made us successful.

Problem is, football's moved on in the last 10 years.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/dat...eed-in-the-league-now-vs-a-decade-ago.452406/

• The average PL winning team between 99/00 to 08/09 scored : 77.7 goals.
• The average PL winning team between 09/10 to 18/19 scored : 88.9 goals.

And that isn't just skewed because of Guardiola's City. In that time frame this is the number of goals the PL winning side have scored:

09/10: 103
10/11: 78
11/12: 93
12/13: 86
13/14: 102
14/15: 73
15/16: 68
16/17: 85
17/18: 106
18/19: 95
19/20: 83* (extrapolated)

Even Conte's Chelsea managed 85 goals in the season they won it. Increasingly Mourinho's Chelsea and Leicester stick out like rarer occurrences.

 

[The Brown Bull]

I know it was a slightly longer season but I think our 66/67 winning side hit 103 goals.
Can anyone confirm?
Any decent champion side should be averaging 2 plus per game.

 

[edcunited1878]

38 league games multiplied by 2 goals per game is 76 goals minimum. Score 3 goals in 10 matches, that's an additional 10 goals so a total of 86 minimum. The maths isn't hard on this one people and it's the same math we all were talking about earlier this season when United couldn't score two goals in a league match to save their life, which is why they dropped so many points.

A front line of Martial, Rashford, Greenwood or whoever should have around 55 league goals between them and the remaining goals delta is made up from and spread across your backup front line players (10), Bruno (10), Pogba (7), maybe 5 from the backline, and backup midfield players...that's around 87 league goals. It's the optimal situation and doesn't include Martial missing about 2 months total from injury (but then Aguero and Kane have missed time but still bag the goals historical) and Rashford missing 3 months wouldn't help. Should be well enough for United to challenge for the title in any season. Concede around 40 goals or whatever, just above 1 goal per game and a GD of at least 30+.

 

[edcunited1878]

I know it was a slightly longer season but I think our 66/67 winning side hit 103 goals.
Can anyone confirm?
Any decent champion side should be averaging 2 plus per game.

This is per Wikipedia, but in 67/68 United scored 107 goals across the first division, fa cup, europe, and charity shield. 110 if you included 3 own goals that went for them.

66/67 won the league with 84 goals for across 42 league games, so 22 first division teams.

 

[RiqCantona]

I don't think it's that much of a stretch.

The problem with Martial was never really his goal output. It was a lack of minutes either through injury or not being first choice.

He hasn't yet played a proper full season for us. The most minutes he's gotten in any season so far was his first one with 2632 mins.

Most of the time he's been here he's only played about half a season minutes-wise.

Over the past few seasons he's scoring at a rate of .5 to .6 goals per game and he's becoming more clinical.
Season - - - - - - Goals Per 90
2019/2020- - - - - - - 0.62
2018/2019- - - - - - - 0.56
2017/2018- - - - - - - 0.52
2016/2017- - - - - - - 0.23
2015/2016- - - - - - - 0.38

Obviously, you wouldn't expect him to play every minute but if he played the equivalent of 30 - 33 games, his scoring rate this season would give him in the region of 18 - 20 goals.

Barring a major injury, as the team are now creating more chances and you'd expect him to continue to improve that could see him in the 20 - 25 bracket.

Good analysis and very logically placed. I guess often we overlook the small details like how long was he injured, playing position, etc. Now that you mention it, I think this is also the first season where he's had a good run as a No.9. And with better service now, I'm hoping he can get to the 20 goal mark next season.

So I don't really understand this paradox here.

Do we lack a striker who scores 25 goals from open play (something that neither Harry Kane nor Aguero have ever done)? How can we be missing something that the two best strikers in the league have never done?

Personally I think, I would back Martial to score about 17-18 from open play this season and 20-21 next season (full season in a functional attack). That would put his goals in-line with the better scorers in the league from open play. Then it's whether the other guys in the attack (and the team for that matter) are stepping up.

I was replying to the another post where it had Martial at 25 goals, Rashford at 20, etc. That's why I said I didn't think that Martial can reach 25 goals. I think realistically Martial can reach 20 next season if he maintains this scoring record, and if he plays 30-odd games in the league. The calculation and expectation from each player to reach 80 goals would be:
Martial and Rashford: 40
Sancho (?) and Greenwood: 20
Bruno - 10
Pogba and the rest - 10

 

[Needham]

If there's a second wave, sure.

 

[Shiva87]

But couldn’t Sancho and pogba share that duty if Bruno was our for a period? Even Greenwood?

We’d play a different way evidently but wouldn’t they be solid backup options?

Sancho and a WC centre back would be enough this year I think.

Next year we maybe get rid of more deadwood and optimise the squad accordingly.

I don't think they can. None of them are a specialist no. 10 like Bruno. It is clear how much Ole relies on this one position to like our forwards to the rest of the team. It is no coincidence that everything was already in place for Bruno to come in and take the team to the next level.

We need a proper back up to him. There will be a drop in quality but it can't be as steep as Lingard etc. On Pogba - I just don't think it's sustainable for him to play that role. He likes being involved in midfield too much. Sancho is not a #10.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Muppet mode on!
Let's do the math, if we consider natural player growth and improvement (league goals only, minus injuries):

1. Martial: 25 goals (15 goals this season)
2. Rashford: 20 goals (15 goals this season)
3. Mason Greenwood: 15 goals (8 goals this season)
4. Bruno: 15 goals
5. Sancho: 10 goals

More realistic, max estimate (*and no penalties*)

Martial: 20 goals
Rashford: 15 goals
Greenwood: 15 goals
Bruno: 10 goals (pens will push this to 15)
Pogba: 10 goals (let him attack more, else it will be around 6-8)
McT: 5 goals
Maguire: 5 goals
----------------------------------
= 80
(realistically 50-60 so other players will chip in the +20 goals)

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

I don't think they can. None of them are a specialist no. 10 like Bruno. It is clear how much Ole relies on this one position to like our forwards to the rest of the team. It is no coincidence that everything was already in place for Bruno to come in and take the team to the next level.

We need a proper back up to him. There will be a drop in quality but it can't be as steep as Lingard etc. On Pogba - I just don't think it's sustainable for him to play that role. He likes being involved in midfield too much. Sancho is not a #10.

What the poster meant is that Sancho can provide the creativity from wide area, so even if Bruno is injured, we still have enough number of players to provide creativity. Not every creativity has to come from no 10. Ole is very flexible with his system and formation.

 

[dal]

What the poster meant is that Sancho can provide the creativity from wide area, so even if Bruno is injured, we still have enough number of players to provide creativity. Not every creativity has to come from no 10. Ole is very flexible with his system and formation.

 

[cyril C]

Muppet mode on!
Let's do the math, if we consider natural player growth and improvement (league goals only, minus injuries):

1. Martial: 25 goals (15 goals this season)
2. Rashford: 20 goals (15 goals this season)
3. Mason Greenwood: 15 goals (8 goals this season)
4. Bruno: 15 goals
5. Sancho: 10 goals

That is just the attackers, if we add other goals from McT, Pogba, and others, we maybe looking at more than 80 goals.

If Sancho comes, Greenwood will not get 15 league goals. Total 15+ goals for sure but not enough league appearance. Pogba should also score 10+ goal if he stays. I think Bruno might get 18-20 goals if he remains the Penalty and free kick taker.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

Our front 3 should we get Sancho should get 80 goals between the 4 of them alone.

I’d like Ole to challenge each and everyone of them with a target, like reach 20 league goals, and up the stakes when they do, like Fergie did in 07/08 with CR. What they’ve done so far is encouraging, but still lots of room to grow, Bayern’s is on 83 goals for instance. 70+ every season should be the baseline for an elite attacking trio.

 

[CG1010]

This year has been an exception but City won last two years on the back of 100+ goals and I think we should target 100. With us in a more attacking frame of mind against most PL teams, we could do it too, provided:

We get another high quality frontman to ensure we have atleast 2-3 amongst Rashford, Martial, Greenwood, and Sancho(?) to play with Ighalo acting as a nice backup
Our full-backs continue to be productive attacking wise like they have been in last few games
We target atleast 5 goals from set-plays
Pogba will eventually also start scoring too

 

[E-mal]

I think Martial scoring 25 goals would be stretching it slightly. He's always been around the 10-15 league goals mark, so he'd have to score twice as many to get to 25.

I posted in another thread that we do lack a striker who would score those 25 goals solid in the league. If we get that, then 80+ goals will be achievable imo. Even with Sancho, the current team can get to 70-75 max - its those 10 extra goals which we would be missing imo.

Well he's not played as a striker since has been here except this season where he was out for months or playing with Lingard and Pereira. He is going to get closer to 20 this season than fiften if he doesnt get injured. So your point is mute in my opinion.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

I think Martial scoring 25 goals would be stretching it slightly. He's always been around the 10-15 league goals mark, so he'd have to score twice as many to get to 25.

I posted in another thread that we do lack a striker who would score those 25 goals solid in the league. If we get that, then 80+ goals will be achievable imo. Even with Sancho, the current team can get to 70-75 max - its those 10 extra goals which we would be missing imo.

Martial, Rashford, Greenwood & Bruno can be in the category of goal scorer with Sancho also has shown this season that he can score goal more than double digit. So if each of these 5 players can score 15 league goals each, that will be 75 goals in total. Pogba, Maguire & the others can fill in the 5 goals or plus. So probably achievable even without a 25 goals striker.

 

[Fosu-Mens]

Martial, Rashford, Greenwood & Bruno can be in the category of goal scorer with Sancho also has shown this season that he can score goal more than double digit. So if each of these 5 players can score 15 league goals each, that will be 75 goals in total. Pogba, Maguire & the others can fill in the 5 goals or plus. So probably achievable even without a 25 goals striker.

Maguire? Long shots? Not getting them from corners.