A new direction

[Kopral Jono]

It's our turn to be mediocre, simple as. Club success goes in cycles and we had more than our fair share of it, on top of tremendous luck at times, under Sir Alex. I've resigned to the fact that our fortunes won't change no matter what we do any time soon.

But we'll be back, we always do.

 

[Escobar]

We always said this. After Moyes, after LVG, and as well after Jose. As long as the club does not change at the top, we will remain mediocre

 

[TheFlagStaysDown]

We need one but when scraping top 4 is all we need to satisfy Woodward, it's not going to happen.

How do you know top4 is a priority for woodward? Again this woodward bullshit no ambitions, I am sure he wants us to win the league, top4 is a minimum to give a manager a chance to some time to Settle and help to build the club. What happeened to this managers need time, what Saf and 99% of you were saying. Or did you wanted us to be sacking freaks and fire managers every half year like in some joke clubs? It was always gonna be transition years for us.

I never heard for instance anyone blaming Saf for picking Moyes as his succesor, that was one of the worst decisions for our club and put us into a deep shit but obviously it’s woodwards mistake he did trust he best manager of all times. We are ambitious club just unlucky hiring the best managers at the time with great record and even fit our philosophy, either being winners, promoting youth and discipline, and having attacking style to turn out completely opposite or ahite than what you could see from them in their previous career. We are not inambitious but just extremely unlucky imo.

Now it is time for a big decision to give it to someone opposite the usual picks someone young and progressive, rather than stay in the circle. Zidane or this. Let’s hope it’s a good decision now. But first remove this arrogant dinosaur who spent so much money on players who will be replaced and despite his records of being leader and winning he league he could barely make it to top4. Who else to had hired other than mourinho, the winner, is this the lack of ambition and complacency with top4 finish. Don’t think so

 

[Judas]

It's our turn to be mediocre, simple as. Club success goes in cycles and we had more than our fair share of it, on top of tremendous luck at times, under Sir Alex. I've resigned to the fact that our fortunes won't change no matter what we do any time soon.

But we'll be back, we always do.

I can't get behind this sort of thinking. We don't have to sit and wait for our turn again, we certainly don't appear to be with the money we hopelessly throw at players. It's a weird mindset.

 

[TsuWave]

the notion that star players aren't "grafters" seems quite unfounded to me.

star players seem to work at/for other clubs.

 

[Kopral Jono]

I can't get behind this sort of thinking. We don't have to sit and wait for our turn again, we certainly don't appear to be with the money we hopelessly throw at players. It's a weird mindset.

I get what you mean and I know my line of thinking is not the most logical, but at the same time I can't think of anything that could change our fortunes in the near future as long as the Glazers are still around. It's quite obvious they're happy with the current model, regardless of how rotten it is to us fans, and definitely not looking to change anything any time soon.

 

[Skills]

Call me crazy but I wouldn't mind some manager like Lampard. Young manager who plays a modern style of fast and fearless football and has no problem relying and trusting young players, apply a policy on top of that to not buy players older than 25/26 and let's see what he can make out of the team. Can't me much shit tier than the soulless overpaid dross we keep watching almost every week and would probably cost the club much less in wages.

I'd take Fred the red at this point. Can't do worse than the clown we have in charge.

 

[VeevaVee]

The new direction needs to be our old direction. Hungry players that are mostly world class with a few young/utility players, managed by someone who can motivate very well.

What's needed?
Manager with a clear direction (Zidane?)
Deadwood clearout (the obvious)
Big spend on real quality, but with the key factor being a good attitude. Bring a fecking team of psychologists in if we need to. Either go all out for world class and just get it sorted or get solid improvements if not possible in that position. We just need to accept that a big turnaround is needed for a season or two and spend the money required to do it, assuming we still have any. I know we've already spent, but it's been poor.
Continue bringing the likes of Pereira through and giving Dalot time.

 

[Mr Anderson]

The entire club needs a new direction. More and more is becoming and involving Jose alright - but him leaving fixes nothing, only in the short-term until the players not show up and board decide not to back the next manager. It's all the little problems, sidesteps and bad decisions over the last 5-6 years coming to the fore. We are a mess, and probably at least 4 years away from mounting a serious title challenge.

 

[el3mel]

Part companies with Mourinho
Sell Pogba and Sanchez
Isolate Ed from footballing side
Sign a pretty good DOF who proved himself previously and understands the club
Let the DOF put the phiolosphy of the club and based on it hire the next manager and determine the players we need

 

[WolfInSharp'sClothing]

You just need a massive clear-out.

Players not good enough any more (or ever good enough): Jones, Mata, Smalling, Grant, Rojo, Young, Valencia, Fellaini, Darmian

Players with question marks over their ability and/or attitude: Lindelof, Bailly, Pogba, Sanchez, Lukaku, Martial, Herrera

That leaves: De Gea, Rashford, Lingard, Pereira, Fred, Shaw, Romero, Matic and McTominay

Get rid of the dead wood, clogging up the wage bill and holding you back.

 

[Red Star One]

- get DoF
- limit Woodward's activity to marketing/business only
- sack Jose
- reimburse fans for Derby and Wolves games
- pray

can't see past it

 

[ZAGREB RED]

It's our turn to be mediocre, simple as. Club success goes in cycles and we had more than our fair share of it, on top of tremendous luck at times, under Sir Alex. I've resigned to the fact that our fortunes won't change no matter what we do any time soon.

But we'll be back, we always do.

This. It is worrying that United will become the Liverpool of 1990 til recently. It could happen if United allow it to.

 

[Flexdegea]

It’s not naivety, I acknowledge that initially we would most likely really struggle. Commercially, we would also take a hit in the short-term but think about what you are selling long-term - a proper football club with proper footballers. Whilst every other club continues to sell their soul to the highest bidder there must be some value in retaining an identity?

I don’t care btw, I won’t watch this Utd side. Not because we’re bad or it’s boring because i’ve seen far worse, but because the vast majority of our players and the people associated with our club physically repulse me

Top top red here.


Can't be a serious post? You don't watch the team because they physically repulse you? Don't think United or even football is for you

 

[VeevaVee]

You just need a massive clear-out.

Players not good enough any more (or ever good enough): Jones, Mata, Smalling, Grant, Rojo, Young, Valencia, Fellaini, Darmian

Players with question marks over their ability and/or attitude: Lindelof, Bailly, Pogba, Sanchez, Lukaku, Martial, Herrera

That leaves: De Gea, Rashford, Lingard, Pereira, Fred, Shaw, Romero, Matic and McTominay

Get rid of the dead wood, clogging up the wage bill and holding you back.

Grant is third keeper and did well until pens. Young and Valencia should always just be backup, although both will need replacing soon even as that. Mata is ok as back up only. Fellaini is fine when used properly as an option. Agree with the rest.
Everyone that isn't deadwood - we might be able to get more from under a different manager, or they just need to be used as backup and someone much better brought in.

 

[Ish]

I believe that children are the future, teach them well and let them lead the way.

 

[Raees]

Precisely. It's sickening what has become of Manchester United.

The Neanderthal portion of the fan base is holding the club back. We’re turning into the club equivalent of the England team - pre Southgate dour, long ball with a group of talented but egotistical players (who got relatively decent results but never threatened the big boys and grinded it out against minnows) who need to be made into a proper footballing side.

More trophies than City, Spurs, Liverpool etc I’d bet...

Erm no.. Spurs yes, but City have been much more successful and Liverpool will have more sustainable success than we will (getting to a CL final for me is much more valuable than winning a Europa League) but it’s also about looking at the direction of where the club is headed.

 

[WolfInSharp'sClothing]

Grant is third keeper and did well until pens. Young and Valencia should always just be backup, although both will need replacing soon even as that. Mata is ok as back up only. Fellaini is fine when used properly as an option. Agree with the rest.
Everyone that isn't deadwood - we might be able to get more from under a different manager, or they just need to be used as backup and someone much better brought in.

Maybe Mourinho has taken this group of players as far as he can? Maybe he knew that you had over-achieved last season for the squad you had and that's why he wanted so much investment in the playing staff this summer.

A new manager, with new thought-processes, opinions and ideas might help, but it might go the opposite way too. Either way, you need to spend some money.

The biggest problem you face at the moment is getting your biggest players playing to the level they are capable of playing. Pogba, Sanchez and Lukaku being key.

Pogba seems to be a player that is brilliant in the right conditions, but if things don't go his way he's toxic. Funnily enough, Mourinho is very similar! So if they have any conflicting ideas it's always going to be a recipe for disaster.

Sanchez is struggling and that might be down to lack of form or more worryingly, it might be that you signed him on the decline and he's no longer capable of performing to his past highs.

Lukaku will always score goals, but needs to be in a settled side that creates the chances for him.

Maybe a new manager will get more out of them by playing a better brand of football?

I think if Mourinho had been backed properly in the summer, this mess could have been avoided.

But I also think the best course of action now might be to replace him as soon as possible. There's only one way this looks to be going if things remain the same.

Financially it might make sense too. If Mourinho stays, Pogba probably leaves with his value decreased - you maybe get something like £120m?

If Mourinho is sacked, Pogba may still want to leave at the end of the season, but a new manager might get more out of him in the meantime and his value holds, offsetting the £12m it will cost to sack Mourinho.

 

[EasyE]

Let’s be frank - whilst the Glazers are running our club we will never finish above City so the best we can hope for every season is 2nd. The Glazers have shown they will only invest enough money to target top 4 and they certainly won’t go and sanction the £500m summer we need to fund a real challenge.

So, with that in mind, why don’t we use this as an opportunity to doing something cool and go in a totally different direction? Appoint Cantona or Giggs or Neville - anyone with a strong connection with the club. Shun agents, shun foreign players who can’t speak a word of English or find Manchester on a map and roll in for the money. Shun crazy transfer fees for mediocre players.

Sell the likes of Pogba, Martial, Sanchez, Bailly, Fred etc....all decent players I’m sure but who honestly feels a connection with these players?

Invest in youth and build the world’s biggest and best academy. Let’s get the likes of Tuanzabe, Gribbin, Gomes, Chong, TFM and Rashford into the side every week and build on that. Soon all of the best young players in England will flock our way once they realise they won’t have at least three International footballers on six-figure salaries between them and the first team.

We can develop players who have a real love for the club, players who won’t run to knobheads like Raiola to hold us to ransom every time something doesn’t go their way. It might take time and it might mean sacrificing some short term success but we will have our club back. A proper Manchester Utd team full of youth, energy, optimism and a love of playing football.

Oh and it would be cheap so sure the Glazers would love it

Oxymoron.

 

[gcook94]

We need a new, younger, more inspiring manager first of all.... Then we actually need to spend some money. We need to get in some new more experienced players.

Get rid of Pogba asap, as him talking crap to the media every 5 minutes isn't helping anyone.

Those more experienced players, mixed with the youngsters who have something to prove will work wonders. It's just about getting the right players in who are good influences on the less experienced guys.

 

[friedeggden]

You need a manager with a definitive plan and style of play.

You need someone like Klopp with a 5-6 year plan, or Guardiola with a (recently) proven pedigree of attacking football and European success, or Simeone with a bulletproof style of defence and attack.

Mourinho seemingly doesn't have a plan and if he does then he doesn't have the backing or trust of the players to execute it.

 

[Lentwood]

Oxymoron.

No it’s not - at the moment under the Glazers we are committing to half-measures. We are spending just enough to remain competitive for top 4 and pick up the odd cup but I seriously doubt we will really commit the funds we need to challenge for the title. Why would the Glazers do that? Makes no commercial sense.

So what I would prefer (and I know it won’t happen) is for us to go a totally different direction and go down the homegrown route. I’d rather watch a bunch of young lads from the Academy play with passion and desire and come 14th than watch this shower of shite pick and choose which games they can be arsed to turn up in in between pissing around on Instagram

 

[arthurka]

Our transfer policy has been so bad we could ship out 10 players and replace them with some youngsters without seeing any difference.
Sadly I think our problem is so deep that we could try all the managers and wouldn´t see a change of direction.
So what I want to see is a manager who does play attractive football so at least I will be entertained while I am watching us struggle.
The fisrt step is to get Jose out and hire a new manager and a DOF then they can pick that squad apart over the next 2-3 transfer windows.
But in an ideal world Ed and Glazers would leave to, but that ain´t going to happen.

 

[KirkDuyt]

Crazy suggestion:

Mourinho's time is up I think, so you need a new coach. What if, before hiring someone, you interview said person about what type of football he wants to play and if he has an idea on the kind of players he needs for this style of play to be successful. Give him free reign to buy these types. Don't look at the names and star power, just look at their quality and compatability. So don't buy Alexis, because a newspaper says he's good, buy a player for a position where the current name is lacking and / or not the right fit for the intended style of play. United have more than enough money to do this adequately for every position, I'd argue.

In short just pick a direction. I honestly don't know what United's style of play is. Counter attacking, possession, high pressing, it's a different story every match. Consistency is key with everything in life. You need to do things over and over and over to turn it in to an automation. Once the basics are drilled in you can slowly expand.

 

[Fosu-Mens]

We always said this. After Moyes, after LVG, and as well after Jose. As long as the club does not change at the top, we will remain mediocre

Club is run for profits/financial growth, not trophies, so no reason to be suprised by the current state of things.
What irritates me is that with the wage expenditure and amount used on transfer fees over the last 4 years we should not be where we are.
With the revenue this club has, winning big trophies and staying profitable is not bound to mutual exclusivity.

 

[Red_toad]

Err no.. Spurs yes, but City have been much more successful and Liverpool will have more sustainable success than we will (getting to a CL final for me is much more valuable than winning a Europa League) but it’s also about looking at the direction of where the club is headed.

Sorry same amount of trophies as City. Way more than Liverpool. As Liverpool have won Jack all, then then hopefully they can sustain that. Unless you're looking into a crystal ball and you've seen what they've won in the future.

 

[Raees]

Sorry same amount of trophies as City. Way more than Liverpool. As Liverpool have won Jack all, then then hopefully they can sustain that. Unless you're looking into a crystal ball and you've seen what they've won in the future.

If Klopp stays there and Jose stays here - then I’m certain that they will be heading in a better direction then we will - put it that way.

 

[Zlatattack]

We need a multi pronged approach.

1. We need a DoF, someone who is tasked with maintaining the footballing footprint of the club. What style of football we want to play, what our plans are for success on the pitch.

2. We need to hire an attacking manager with the right experience. Age and years in the job count, but what we really need is someone who also can handle egos and can play attacking football.

3. We need to look at the squad sensibly. We do not have a terrible squad. If you said to someone in 2015/16 our team would have Sanchez, Pogba, Lukaku, Matic, DDG in it, they'd rate it very highly. The players might have aged a bit, but they've not turned dogshite overnight. It's the system of players/tactics/manager combined that is not working.

In my opinion;

Sanchez, Pogba and DDG are world class players in our squad (maybe not on current form). If we put them up for sale, all the big clubs would be interested.

Below them we have Lukaku, Matic, Smalling, who are good players in our league and if they were put on sale, teams with interest from CL quality teams.

Then we have some potentially world class talents who are currently good players and could be amongst the very best if they hit their potential. These are Rashford, Martial, Shaw, Dalot, Periera, (maybe Lindelof).

We also have some good squad players (Valencia, Young, Lingard, Fred, Bailly, Fellaini, Hererra, Maybe Mata) albeit some of them are aging and it shows.

The rest of our players are either terrible or limited (Darmain, Jones, Rojo).

You might not agree on the categorisation of each player, but you'll agree it's not all that bad, it's a team which is severely under performing.

With the right manager we could get better performances from what we have, but also we need to replace the limited players and some of the squad players with much better players. Our squad lacks a RW for example.

We are no longer at all change stage, but we do need some change in the squad, the right type of change. I think with an attack minded manager, if we add a world class CB and RW, we'd have a different team altogether.

It might well be that this happens and we need to replace Pogba or Sanchez or whever anyway because they're still stinking the place up, but I think we should try with changes at the top first.

 

[sunama]

Part companies with Mourinho
Sell Pogba and Sanchez
Isolate Ed from footballing side
Sign a pretty good DOF who proved himself previously and understands the club
Let the DOF put the phiolosphy of the club and based on it hire the next manager and determine the players we need

The plan is sound. But the implementation of that plan is almost impossible.

Jose will remain until it is mathematically impossible to get top 4. So he won't be leaving anytime soon, if it all....unless he himself quits.

Pogba could be sold, but who on Earth will take Sanchez off our hands for such big wages?

Ed won't allow himself to be isolated. He is the top man at our club and has somehow deluded himself into thinking that he knows more about football, than Jose. Someone who thinks so highly of themselves won't allow themselves to be replaced or reduced.

DOF - Woodward is the current DOF and he won't be relinquishing that role anytime soon.
Woodward will be the one who imprints his philosophy onto the club and will be doing the hiring/firing of managers.

 

[12OunceEpilogue]

I'd certainly like a new man who can command the respect of the dressing room while bringing fresh footballing ideas to the table, though obviously finding one is easier said than done. I'm also instinctively interested in going down the DOF route, as while I accept it is no magic bullet for success I think post-Fergie our ideals of a strong manager at the top controlling day to day football and transfers are outdated in the modern game.

I don't like player power, and I hope something comes from the reported 'players to pay agents' changes being mooted at the moment to help curb it, but we don't do ourselves any favours by getting in some ballbuster and playing the kids + De Gea from hereon in.

 

[NoLogo]

You mean someone like Carrick ? Lol
My family are from Derby and believe me when i say Frank Lampard is not the new Pep.

Yeah why not. I simply think that always going with the save option isn't really a, well, save option. Just be open for new options if they show they can play some progressive football and like to develop young players, something the club was once famous for and what for me at least was part of the charm, why I fell in love with this club. If the next manager is going to be Ancelotti I can already predict nothing will change for the better in the long run.

 

[Eric's Seagull]

Fans aren't going to tolerate this. What we need to do is spend the millions of pounds Woodward is making with these endless sponsorships. This summer's transfer window was unacceptable.

I totally agree with this part in bold, although I personally don't think that the owners will do this as all they want is Champions League qualification, which is saddening for our club as I think the fans deserve much more than trying to get 4th place each year. With all the resources that we have we should at least be challenging for the League and I also think be competing in the latter stages of the Champions League.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Conte or Blanc. but first get in a D.O.F

 

[ForestRGoinUp]

I think people would be shocked to see where the majority of this squad would end up if they were all put on the market. Pogba and De Gea have some desirability, but I would reckon every single other player would end up either starting at a club outside top 6 or on the bench rarely playing for any top 6 level club. There is so little genuine talent at the club right now.

And the last manager you want in that instance is one that doesn't even have a defined system. With inferior talent, you need a system they can all buy into (see Wolves, etc.)

 

[goofygoofygoofy]

We need the opposite. We need to be able to sack managers and move on quickly. To do this we need a more refined structure in and around the manager, not only a technical director but other roles too. Basically, we should lessen the manager's role as much as we can so the effect of him moving on is reduced. This also allows us to move away from the 'safe pair of hands' or 'big name' strategy of hiring someone and get someone young and exciting, in the mould of Tuchel, Pochettino and Sarri.

We should take a rule out of Jose's book of developing youngsters: they have to prove themselves to him before he trusts them. We shouldn't be backing a manager fully and give up all our principles because he is our manager. And if this manager proves himself to us, we might start backing him over the player i.e. sell a star and keep the manager. It doesn't make sense to do this for just anyone. The fans haven't particularly taken to Mourinho so why back him? Only when we have a manager that the fans like as Liverpool fans do Klopp or City fans do Guardiola should we be taking his side. Until then, we can run the club as Chelsea/Real Madrid and Barcelona are run and periodically, but in a sensible fashion, change managers.