A Response To The Open Letter| Updated with draft response

Shiva87

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All - I wanted to write out my thoughts on putting together a serious response to the Glazer letter. Here is a post which I wrote in the thread where the open letter was posted.

I don't read anything into that apology. Unless we now get a proper football man like Edwin VDS in the CEO role from outside the club, the Glazers should be thrown out.

The Glazers need to re build lots of bridges - by begining with paying down our debts to make sure the club is not hanging by the thread on the revenue front.

However, I don't think demands to get them out will get us anywhere - as they are sitting on an expensive asset which cant be liquidated easily.

I think the fans should get together and start a manifesto which we should submit to the ownership, in response to the "open letter".

We should ask for an open consultation with the owners with the following items to discuss:

- Appointment of new CEO
- Plan to reduce debt over 2-3 years.
- Dividend restrictions to ensure annual cash flow for footballing goals
- stadium restoration (to bring it up to state of the art quality)
- reducing season ticket prices (match going fans should think about this) or separate quotas/ concessions for 18 years or below

We are the club that generates massive amounts of money, and there is enough to go around to ensure both the Glazers and the fans are happy.

In my mind - even a 30% reduction in their dividends can transform our clubs competitiveness on the pitch.
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Having slept over it, I think this makes a lot of sense to me - and there are a couple of members on that thread who are on the same page (@TheReligion and @Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær). If members on the Caf are interested, please put out your thoughts on specific demands we should make in an open response.

I have been looking into change.org during the day today, and once we have a clearer idea of a response - I was thinking of getting a petition there which is open for fan signatures and can then get submitted to the club.

I think getting a response out early is the best thing we can do - and I'd like to get this out by Monday next week. Any thoughts the caf has over the next couple of days will be welcome. I plan to write this out on Sunday.

Cheers.
 
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The Glazers are here to make a profit using the club as collateral. They don't care about anything else, and would wipe their arse on any response.
 
Shiva87 said:
All - I wanted to write out my thoughts on putting together a serious response to the Glazer letter. Here is a post which I wrote in the thread where the open letter was posted.



Having slept over it, I think this makes a lot of sense to me - and there are a couple of members on that thread who are on the same page (@TheReligion and @DwazzaGunnarSolskjaer). If members on the Caf are interested, please put out your thoughts on specific demands we should make in an open response.

I have been looking into change.org during the day today, and once we have a clearer idea of a response - I was thinking of getting a petition there which is open for fan signatures and can then get submitted to the club.

I think getting a response out early is the best thing we can do - and I'd like to get this out by Monday next week. Any thoughts the caf has over the next couple of days will be welcome. I plan to write this out on Sunday.

Cheers.
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You'll likely get a few characters posting here to take the piss but I genuinely think it's a great idea and thank you for suggesting it and offering to take the time to put something together.

We are the biggest football fan site in the world. Well worth sharing our thoughts and making sure they are seen.
 
vidic blood & sand said:
The Glazers are here to make a profit using the club as collateral. They don't care about anything else, and would wipe their arse on your letter.
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Sadly that's probably true given the tone of their "apology" - but at the same time I always like to think people are well intentioned and can change - despite how often I have been proven wrong than not. Change seems to happen when people are still relatively young (it's more likely an asshole at 18 will end up being a standup person when they re 30) than it's likely for these guys to give a feck and use some introspection.

Either way it's better to try than not.
 
TheReligion said:
You'll likely get a few characters posting here to take the piss but I genuinely think it's a great idea and thank you for suggesting it and offering to take the time to put something together.

We are the biggest football fan site in the world. Well worth sharing our thoughts and making sure they are seen.
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Piss taking is also welcome :D

Some times that's where you get the best ideas!
 
Redplane said:
Sadly that's probably true given the tone of their "apology" - but at the same time I always like to think people are well intentioned and can change - despite how often I have been proven wrong than not. Change seems to happen when people are still relatively young (it's more likely an asshole at 18 will end up being a standup person when they re 30) than it's likely for these guys to give a feck and use some introspection.

Either way it's better to try than not.
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With Woodard leaving, it seems that the club has finally squeezed the final drop of commercial blood out of the stone. Makes me wonder if the Glazers may now execute an exit plan.
Although Ed hasn't been great negotiating in the transfer market, he has done amazingly well sealing sponsorship deals, and has massively increased revenue commercially.
It makes no sense for him to leave unless he feels the club has maximized their income commercially, and the only thing left is for the Glazers to pursue their exit plan, because the club cannot sustain the current financial demands.
 
TheReligion said:
You'll likely get a few characters posting here to take the piss but I genuinely think it's a great idea and thank you for suggesting it and offering to take the time to put something together.

We are the biggest football fan site in the world. Well worth sharing our thoughts and making sure they are seen.
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Please tell me that's legit? Also, I'd sign obviously.
 
I appreciate the idea, as I have none myself on what we can do to effect change!

I am very cynical though as I do not think the Glazer family care one iota about us fans but certainly worth a shot.
 
I'd sign but for what it's worth, when the Glazers say they aim to build bridges with the fans, they mean they'll throw in two pens instead of one in the pack, when you buy a membership or season ticket.

These guys will only leave once they're under pressure from sponsors and start to lose money.
 
appreciate the idea and like the points in the OP. I'd be behind this, fully aware that it probably achieves little.

one other point I'd like to add: since all those ESL clubs talk so extensively about "sustainability", I'd like to hear the club's thoughts on other strategies to reach that goal without joining a closed "elite" league.
 
vidic blood & sand said:
With Woodard leaving, it seems that the club has finally squeezed the final drop of commercial blood out of the stone. Makes me wonder if the Glazers may now execute an exit plan.
Although Ed hasn't been great negotiating in the transfer market, he has done amazingly well sealing sponsorship deals, and has massively increased revenue commercially.
It makes no sense for him to leave unless he feels the club has maximized their income commercially, and the only thing left is for the Glazers to pursue their exit plan, because the club cannot sustain the current financial demands.
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apprantly according to sky he was in the loop on but didnt support the Super league and resigned when they announced they were going with it anyway.

I think he was amazing in securing revenue for the club and hopeless on transfer activity. Ultimately, he was the man who was most visible because the owners and clan of glazers mainly hide across the pond, and he has taken a lot of heat for that. Probably didnt want a mob with flares outside his house again. If only the owners had used that revenue to pay the debt down. We’ve spent a billion quid on servicing debt since their takeover. If they would get rid of that debt and be more sensible with dividends the club would be rosy and have a healthy transfer budget every season
 
Thanks for the effort and better trying something than nothing. I would sign.
 
I would sign, might be worth adding a little stick to the carrot, and reminding them that failure to engage with us in good faith would leave us with no option but to move onto petitioning sponsors, and our Mps?
 
I commented on this in the other thread its a very good idea.

Hopefully some people who are far more educated than me could help with ideas on a draft.
 
TheReligion said:
You'll likely get a few characters posting here to take the piss but I genuinely think it's a great idea and thank you for suggesting it and offering to take the time to put something together.

We are the biggest football fan site in the world. Well worth sharing our thoughts and making sure they are seen.
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Is redcafe the biggest fan site in the world? Cool if true.
 
Draft Response
I've been thinking about this now for a two weeks, and this is what I came up with. I would love to get this out, and see if the fans on this forum want to get behind it. @MrPigeon- can you get this to attention of the mods. @Niall

@Damien Trying to get your attention as well.

Please add your thoughts in the thread:

=============
Dear Glazers:

Manchester United fans, as a group, rarely see eye to eye and share common beliefs. We argue about everything. Are you Ole IN or Ole Out? Is Pogba World Class or is he the “Virus”? Is Rashford better than Mbappe or is he a pub footballer running down blind alleys? And so on. But, we must thank you for bringing us all together in our hate for your ownership of our football club – now, we all have one thing in common – “Love United Hate Glazers”.

This 4-word slogan says a lot about the dysfunctionality of our relationship. The fans never wanted your Glazeronomics at United, but we were forced to accept it. After 16 years of ownership, you have only increased this anger. Your response to MUST on 7th May said nothing at all, and it’s an empty attempt at placating fans till the last game of the season. Talking to fans does not require you to provide an unknown date after an arbitrary timeline that only suits your interests. Angry fan groups can be entirely self-destructive and the 2nd May protests was just the first sample of what lies ahead. You must see the irony of United fans celebrating on getting the Liverpool game postponed, and bombarding TeamViewer with negative reviews – an important sponsor for the next few years.

This brings us our proposals, Mr. Glazer. For the fans now, the third time has to be a charm and we must see positive change coming out of this round of protests. We will be happy to see your $3bn asset getting burned down to zero unless you find a way to bridge the gap. As a way forward, the following is a list of minimum demands that need to be met:
  1. Fan Ownership: Agree to sell your voting shares to the fans for the current trading price on the NYSE (NO additional premium for voting rights). You should be obligated to sell every share that is proposed to be purchased by a fan.
  2. Application of Sale Proceeds: 50% of the sale proceeds you realize from fans must be used to repay debt taken by the club. You bought our club without a penny and loaded us with debt. You’ve made enough money from us now, and its time for you to pay for your “leveraged buy-out”. We don’t trust you enough to do this yourself, so fan money needs to be put in an independent escrow with clear application of proceeds.
  3. Dividends: Dividend freeze on the club for the next 3 years – and all extra cash generated by the club must be used towards payment of outstanding liabilities and loans. Remaining cash needs to be reinvested into the squad, the stadium and fan and community engagement projects.
  4. Official Supporters Trust: Recognize and induct a global ‘official supporters trust’, and issue official memberships for free. Trust must have an independent governing body to be hired through an external hiring process with an independent CEO and CFO who will report directly to the members of the trust. No reporting lines to the club. Club to fund initial set up cost for the trust for the first 3 years. Trust charter should provide for greater engagement with both local Manchester fans and global fans – including, setting up plans to provide match day experiences for children and those who can’t afford it. At least 10% of all future dividends to be shared with the Trust.
  5. Board Participation: At least one (1) director on the board of MUFC to be appointed by the Official Supporters Trust.
This list of demands does not conflict with the proposals of MUST – but is intended to supplement it. All their demands stand as is.

Make no mistake - MUFC is OUR club, and we wont stop till we get it back. We are not interested in your fig leaf of a response to MUST and change needs to happen now.

Yours sincerely,

The fans @ Redcafe.net

===

Thanks @TheReligion for the encouragement.

I'll now leave it for the forum to decide if this is something we want to do.
 
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Shiva87 said:
Make no mistake - MUFC is OUR club, and the fans have shown you that our distrust of your ownership runs deep.
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So, who owns the club? If it's OURS, it's not THEIRS, but you refer to their "ownership" in the same sentence.

There's the problem.

Fans think they own the club, but they know they actually don't.
 
Counterfactual said:
So, who owns the club? If it's OURS, it's not THEIRS, but you refer to their "ownership" in the same sentence.

There's the problem.

Fans think they own the club, but they know they actually don't.
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Good point. Edited now. Better to say, till we get it back.
 
Big fan of this idea and good of you to organise @Shiva87. Much respect.
 
Shiva87 said:
It was listed at a point, where fans had ownership. The proposal is very similar - you allow fans to pay for ownership, and the stock remains listed on NYSE.
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Yes but only a small piece and, without wanting to cause offence to you or anyone else, the fans fecked it up by not putting their money into the club they love when shares were cheap.

If it works out that we as fans can buy into a proper scheme that looks to steadily increase our holdings of shares and influence in the club's governance then I'm all for it.
 
Why would they agree to sell their voting shares and then give up half of the income? I also don't think the fixed price works on the NYSE.
 
Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær said:
Yes but only a small piece and, without wanting to cause offence to you or anyone else, the fans fecked it up by not putting their money into the club they love when shares were cheap.

If it works out that we as fans can buy into a proper scheme that looks to steadily increase our holdings of shares and influence in the club's governance then I'm all for it.
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That I agree. But hindsight's always a ..... Im sure more fans will put up the money to buy shares in the current scenario. I will.

1 share is generally in the 15-20 $ range.
 
rhajdu said:
Why would they agree to sell their voting shares and then give up half of the income? I also don't think the fixed price works on the NYSE.
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The debt would have to be guaranteed and secured against their shares. Doesn't need to be fixed price - whatever trading price is over a 12-24 month period.
 
rhajdu said:
Why would they agree to sell their voting shares and then give up half of the income? I also don't think the fixed price works on the NYSE.
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Also, you're really not planning to send a letter that says 'give me your money or we'll destroy your property', right?
 
Shiva87 said:
That I agree. But hindsight's always a ..... Im sure more fans will put up the money to buy shares in the current scenario. I will.

1 share is generally in the 15-20 $ range.
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That's fairly pricey. I think they were $5 USD when the takeover happened.
 
Shiva87 said:
The debt would have to be guaranteed and secured against their shares. Doesn't need to be fixed price - whatever trading price is over a 12-24 month period.
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The problem is that you ask them to basically renounce their ownership of the club. Their voting shares worth way more than the non-voting shares so that would be the first loss for them. Then they would have to give up half of the income. So they would rather wait and see how the club burns down, because it wouldn't make any difference for them. It's unrealistic.

I also would prefer no dividend payments at all. They are lambasted for taking out money so it would be really insincere if the dividend payments would continue in any point of time.
 
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steffyr2 said:
Also, you're really not planning to send a letter that says 'give me your money or we'll destroy your property', right?
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Intent is to say devalue not destroy - also, suggest some suggestions for alternates if you like. That's the point of putting it up on this thread.

I'm a big believer is assets having to be bought - and not paid for by the asset itself. They can reduce some debt by paying a bit of the purchase price that they never paid. Its' 500m $ of debt, against 2.1 bn$ of assets they hold (which they didnt pay for yet). The math works at least in my mind.
 
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