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2021-22 Performances


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TwoSheds

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He is not gash, he is just alot older than AWB. He would do a better job in the team now than AWB would. AWB is just awful, three years in and he is the same player that got here with no improvement. If he didn't learn something in that time, no other manager will make any difference to him. He will be gone soon enough.
Have you seen Everton try to defend? They make us look solid.
 

Adam-Utd

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As I said he would do a better job in the team than AWB as of now. He is older and wiser so that make age revalant over AWB who is young and doesn't seam to learn and lacks any intelligence.
as of now? :lol: you can’t honestly believe that
 

studs

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Have you seen Everton try to defend? They make us look solid.
I have, but AWB wouldn't improve Everton's defence as of now. Listen I don't want Coleman but he would improve our defence over AWB going forward.
 

TwoSheds

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I have, but AWB wouldn't improve Everton's defence as of now. Listen I don't want Coleman but he would improve our defence over AWB going forward.
Marginal at best. The one thing he had was great pace and stamina and as he ages he doesn't even really have that.
 

Bebestation

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He's not good.

If people want to say he's underrated on the ball and has improved his final product, whatever. He's still worse on the ball than most starting fullbacks in the league. At a club of our size, that's a big problem.

And he repeatedly makes defensive mistakes. It would be one thing if he was rock solid defensively while being weak on the ball but he is far from it. In fact if he was really good on the ball then he'd be a player we describe as making up for his defensive lapses with his offensive ability. As is he's a defensive fullback who makes defensive lapses.
The thing for me about AWB is he has only played as a RB for 3 years or something.

During this time at United, he only has had a bellow average coach who has hardly helped Rashford or Greenwood grow. He didn't learn from van Gaal or even Jose- just purely Ole. He has hardly had any coaching from coaches that fans complain and think are not good enough. He doesn't even have an Older RB to compete or learn under.

It's why I think Wan Bissaka can improve under someone like Rangnick who will help him out with his positioning, pressing and vertical passing.

Ultimately, whether Wan Bissaka is good for us or not, form for us or not; we need a Telles like attacking RB that whips crosses in accurately to a striker as our alternative to him. With that and some coaching, let's see if Wan Bissaka can improve and grow to be a good defensive RB player for us.

As I said, I'd rather have one attacking RB and one defensive one because it should allow us to be tactically flexible.

I'm not sure people should be giving up on him as yet.
 

TwoSheds

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I do

Yeah, that's right, but I'm saying his brain hasn't aged, AWB hasn't got one.
I can't say I've ever thought of Coleman as a clever player, quite the opposite in fact.
 

criticalanalysis

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He's been deservedly dropped but he can become a proper player under Ralf imo. He could be a right back version of Fred of sorts because he has the base physical and technical qualities (on a good day).

He may not have that natural creative streak but he has potential to press, shut down attacks, hold width, recycle possession and send in crosses at a good level. Whether that will be valuable to Ralf, as opposed to having a more out and out attacking option ala what Dalot has shown these last two games is another question.

I said at the start of the season, having Sancho in front of him would give him bit a new life and boy have I been wrong so far. However, let's write him off.
 

Drainy

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He's been deservedly dropped but he can become a proper player under Ralf imo. He could be a right back version of Fred of sorts because he has the base physical and technical qualities (on a good day).

He may not have that natural creative streak but he has potential to press, shut down attacks, hold width, recycle possession and send in crosses at a good level. Whether that will be valuable to Ralf, as opposed to having a more out and out attacking option ala what Dalot has shown these last two games is another question.

I said at the start of the season, having Sancho in front of him would give him bit a new life and boy have I been wrong so far. However, let's write him off.
I agree with this. If he can play higher up the pitch making tackles I'm sure he will be more useful than deep getting pulled out of position and all over the place like he was under Ole
 

GoldanoGraham

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I bet he will improve dramatically under Ralf as he will actually be coached and given clear direction for the first time - whether he can improve enough to have the attacking requirements needed remains to be seen.

However, for the first time since he’s been at Utd - he has lost his place and I don’t see him getting it back anytime soon barring an injury to Dalot (or general squad rotation like the upcoming Young Boys game).

being out of the firing line will probably do him some good as well
 

saivet

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He may not have that natural creative streak but he has potential to press, shut down attacks, hold width, recycle possession and send in crosses at a good level. Whether that will be valuable to Ralf, as opposed to having a more out and out attacking option ala what Dalot has shown these last two games is another question.
I don't think simply recycling possession is enough. With this new system he'll need to provide the width and be able progress play with passing or dribbling. I think his willingness to get forward is okay but given how important our full back will need to be from a creative perspective I doubt he will work well there.
 

MadDogg

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Like this is what I don't get either.. People constantly talking about how we should sell Wan Bissaka to get our money back.

Surely Wan Bissaka is good enough to be our 2nd RB in the squad - he has been talked about as the best 1vs1 defender in world football and even if he doesn't start; a good manager can utelise that and also try and make Wan Bissaka a more well rounded player.
The problem is that being the best 1v1 defender in the world is only really useful if players are taking you on 1v1. It's very obvious that teams have adjusted to him, and rather than trying to take him on 1v1 they just pass it around him. He's literally in the bottom 1% of fullbacks in the top 5 leagues for how many dribblers have attempted to get past him this season so far. They've realised that there's simply no point trying, especially when playing around and behind him gets so much joy instead.
 

Foxbatt

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He also rarely sprint back to defend. He normally jogs back. Maybe he doesn't have the stamina to do that regularly?
 

lex talionis

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I hope AWB is using this time wisely to reflect on his performances and how to improve on them. Yes, we overspent on him but he was a fantastic RB before he came to United and has put in more than a few very decent performances for us.

But if Dalot keeps up his form, AWB will be getting lost of rest.
 

Tom Cato

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I hope AWB is using this time wisely to reflect on his performances and how to improve on them. Yes, we overspent on him but he was a fantastic RB before he came to United and has put in more than a few very decent performances for us.

But if Dalot keeps up his form, AWB will be getting lost of rest.
AWB had 1 season as RB for Crystal Palace before we signed him. His metrics compared to Crystal Palace have improved since his joined us here.

I do not understand this fan narrative where AWB is some destroyed talent. His pass% since CP is up between 10-15%. Key passes and offensive involvement is naturally also up. He's had problems this particular season. Its not a "coaching" issue where a player who has been good for 2 seasons suddenly gets coached poorly and now he can't play anymore.

Dalot has shown nothing that indicates he's a go to guy. He's had 2 ok games. Dalot against Villareal was the biggest liability on the pitch. It would be great if he could show some consistency but theres a reason he hasn't broken into any Manchester United team yet
 

lex talionis

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AWB had 1 season as RB for Crystal Palace before we signed him. His metrics compared to Crystal Palace have improved since his joined us here.

I do not understand this fan narrative where AWB is some destroyed talent. His pass% since CP is up between 10-15%. Key passes and offensive involvement is naturally also up. He's had problems this particular season. Its not a "coaching" issue where a player who has been good for 2 seasons suddenly gets coached poorly and now he can't play anymore.

Dalot has shown nothing that indicates he's a go to guy. He's had 2 ok games. Dalot against Villareal was the biggest liability on the pitch. It would be great if he could show some consistency but theres a reason he hasn't broken into any Manchester United team yet
AWB is a fantastic last ditch tackler but he's not a consistent attacking threat. Yes, his primary job is defending and he does that job well. But if we're going to be honest he's not particularly effective in attack, and that last of effectiveness in attack is not insignificant.

Dalot has been more than just ok the last two games. If you hold up these last two games to AWB's performances this season -- just this season, nothing more -- no way does RR feel desperate to have AWB back. That said, if AWB can return to something close to his peak form he'll return to a regular starting role.
 

edcunited1878

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AWB is a fantastic last ditch tackler but he's not a consistent attacking threat. Yes, his primary job is defending and he does that job well. But if we're going to be honest he's not particularly effective in attack, and that last of effectiveness in attack is not insignificant.

Dalot has been more than just ok the last two games. If you hold up these last two games to AWB's performances this season -- just this season, nothing more -- no way does RR feel desperate to have AWB back. That said, if AWB can return to something close to his peak form he'll return to a regular starting role.
The biggest difference between Dalot and AWB is that Dalot has technical ability on the ball and can pass the ball with both feet. AWB probably isn't going to improve his technical ability nor passing that dramatically within 6 months or a couple of years. And having two players of similar technical and passing ability on one side of the pitch in McTominay and AWB is detrimental to United. McTominay and AWB should come off the bench most matches and start some matches that needs more physicality or defensive stability, but in an ideal situation, both players, especially AWB, do not start because the player(s) ahead of them have the superior technical ability and passing ability suited for the team
 

sullydnl

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How about he plays as CB and partners Varane?
Why would you put a player who already isn't good enough in his best position into a new position where his flaws will obviously be exposed even more? Rather than just, say, not playing him?

A CB with poor positional sense who is weak in possession, weak in the air and has never actually played at CB. What could possibly go wrong?
 

lex talionis

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The biggest difference between Dalot and AWB is that Dalot has technical ability on the ball and can pass the ball with both feet. AWB probably isn't going to improve his technical ability nor passing that dramatically within 6 months or a couple of years. And having two players of similar technical and passing ability on one side of the pitch in McTominay and AWB is detrimental to United. McTominay and AWB should come off the bench most matches and start some matches that needs more physicality or defensive stability, but in an ideal situation, both players, especially AWB, do not start because the player(s) ahead of them have the superior technical ability and passing ability suited for the team
Well put.

To the next point, I actually think he could be a decent option in a back 3 if for whatever reason we're in that formation again. Lindelof > AWB as the right sided CB of the 3 though.

I just hope that AWB is using this time well to realize he needs to improve his game, especially the attacking aspect of his game. I refuse to believe that at his age, 24, that he's not capable of developing the technical ability required to become a consistent attacking threat.
 

edcunited1878

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Well put.

To the next point, I actually think he could be a decent option in a back 3 if for whatever reason we're in that formation again. Lindelof > AWB as the right sided CB of the 3 though.

I just hope that AWB is using this time well to realize he needs to improve his game, especially the attacking aspect of his game. I refuse to believe that at his age, 24, that he's not capable of developing the technical ability required to become a consistent attacking threat.
I can maybe see him be used like Walker was for England in a back 3, but Walker has blistering pace and strength that AWB does not...and Walker has better technical ability and passing than AWB.
 

edcunited1878

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If he is lost what can we say about Shaw?
Shaw has been off form from his previous year and has now been in concussion protocol. But he's shown his high level and it's really high, so Shaw has the benefit of the doubt. He'll work hard to improve and get back to the levels he played at for much of last season, including Euros. AWB has never shown that quality and sadly, may never. Look at the RBs ahead of AWB for England. TAA, James, Walker, Trippier. All can pass, cross, receive a ball, and not look scared on it. Their defensive prowess isn't as good as AWB, but on the whole, they are better than him especially going forward in any capacity.
 

arthurka

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Shaw has been off form from his previous year and has now been in concussion protocol. But he's shown his high level and it's really high, so Shaw has the benefit of the doubt. He'll work hard to improve and get back to the levels he played at for much of last season, including Euros. AWB has never shown that quality and sadly, may never. Look at the RBs ahead of AWB for England. TAA, James, Walker, Trippier. All can pass, cross, receive a ball, and not look scared on it. Their defensive prowess isn't as good as AWB, but on the whole, they are better than him especially going forward in any capacity.
I really don't understand how Shaw gets a free pass. He has been here for what 7 years and he has had about one good season. He played well for a half season last year and under LVG he had half a season. Other than that he has been piss poor and out of shape. His stats are frightening similar to poor AWB even though he has played half the games Shaw has.

I for one am glad both Dalot and Telles are doing well because Ole constantly picking AWB and Shaw was doing my head in.
 

Revaulx

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I really don't understand how Shaw gets a free pass. He has been here for what 7 years and he has had about one good season. He played well for a half season last year and under LVG he had half a season. Other than that he has been piss poor and out of shape. His stats are frightening similar to poor AWB even though he has played half the games Shaw has.

I for one am glad both Dalot and Telles are doing well because Ole constantly picking AWB and Shaw was doing my head in.
This sort of ridiculous hyperbole really isn’t helpful.

That said, this current run of poor form is by no means Shaw’s first, and fans have every right to be frustrated by him and question whether it might be better to have a more reliable player as first choice.

My feeling towards him is that he’s a high maintenance player, requiring regular application of equal amounts of carrot and stick to keep him on song. I reckon he’s worth the effort; we’ll have to wait and see whether Ralf does.
 

honirelandboy

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This sort of ridiculous hyperbole really isn’t helpful.

That said, this current run of poor form is by no means Shaw’s first, and fans have every right to be frustrated by him and question whether it might be better to have a more reliable player as first choice.

My feeling towards him is that he’s a high maintenance player, requiring regular application of equal amounts of carrot and stick to keep him on song. I reckon he’s worth the effort; we’ll have to wait and see whether Ralf does.
How long more do you want to give Shaw. Another seven years? He's been horrendous except for around 15 games last season.
 

golden_blunder

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Statistically premier league assists last season

Cresswell 8
Robertson, Digne, Coufal, TAA 7
Shaw, chilwell 5
AWB 4

this season we’ve dropped off the pitch with Shaw on 1 and AWB on 0

to me that’s coaching this season, for whatever reason it’s all fallen apart and players haven’t kicked on
 

sullydnl

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I really don't understand how Shaw gets a free pass. He has been here for what 7 years and he has had about one good season. He played well for a half season last year and under LVG he had half a season. Other than that he has been piss poor and out of shape. His stats are frightening similar to poor AWB even though he has played half the games Shaw has.

I for one am glad both Dalot and Telles are doing well because Ole constantly picking AWB and Shaw was doing my head in.
Last season Shaw was one of our main progressors of the ball, being 77th percentile for progressive passes and 79th percentile for progressive carries. Without him our team quite literally wouldn't have functioned as we were immensely dependent on that aspect of his game. And one of the reasons we were so dependent on him in that regard is the fact that AWB is so much worse (17th percentile for progressive passes and 66th percentile for progressive carries).

Other stats: progressive passing distance 75th vs 26th, key passes 93rd vs 28th, passes into the final third 77th vs 13th, SCA 91st vs 44th, GCA 81st vs 25th, total carrying distance 87th vs 66th, etc etc.

If Shaw managed to be so comprehensively better than AWB despite supposedly only playing well for half a season then it further highlights what a cul-de-sac AWB is for our team on the ball. Unless you just don't value your team being able to move the ball forward out of defence in any way whastoever, they're light-years apart as footballers. And I don't even rate Shaw that highly to begin with.
 

Revaulx

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How long more do you want to give Shaw. Another seven years? He's been horrendous except for around 15 games last season.
Well he was Sir Matt Busby Player of the Year in 2018/19 but obviously you know better.

And I’m not convinced I want to give him any longer anyway, as his bad spells are all too frequent. I’d rather trust a competent manager’s judgement though.
 

Chief123

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I don't think simply recycling possession is enough. With this new system he'll need to provide the width and be able progress play with passing or dribbling. I think his willingness to get forward is okay but given how important our full back will need to be from a creative perspective I doubt he will work well there.
I agree. Just winning the ball back and giving it to someone else with an easy pass just isn't sufficient any more for a full back. Full backs are having an increasing significance in modern football to the point where they are often the playmakers of the team. Look at Trent/Robertson, Cancelo for City, Reece James/Chilwell for Chelsea. Top teams all have full backs which contribute significantly to the attacking side of the game.

My biggest concern with AWB is that even though he is young and still developing, in the 2 years he's been here his attacking creativity has barely progressed. It may improve under Ragnick but there's nothing to suggest his technical ability has got any better or is going to.
 

Marwood

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Well he was Sir Matt Busby Player of the Year in 2018/19 but obviously you know better.

And I’m not convinced I want to give him any longer anyway, as his bad spells are all too frequent. I’d rather trust a competent manager’s judgement though.
That was a poor year though. He was decent but won it because of the lack of competition. Think he said as much himself.

Like a few others I'm still not convinced he's fit.

That became one of Ole's big problems. There was a stage we looked in good shape, we looked fitter than other teams in the latter part of games.

But towards the end it looks to me at least that AWB and a few others just aren't putting in the yards off the pitch. Or aren't looking after themselves at least.

AWB, Shaw, Rashford, Martial, Pogba and maybe Sancho this season.
 

honirelandboy

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Well he was Sir Matt Busby Player of the Year in 2018/19 but obviously you know better.

And I’m not convinced I want to give him any longer anyway, as his bad spells are all too frequent. I’d rather trust a competent manager’s judgement though.
We finished sixth year and Shaw got Sir Matt Busby Player of the Year.

That says everything that's wrong with United.
 

Bebestation

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We finished sixth year and Shaw got Sir Matt Busby Player of the Year.

That says everything that's wrong with United.
Bullshit.

Barcelona can do absolutely nothing to minimal things in a season and Messi still wins the Balon Dor.

If people believe that this was viable then I don't see any reason why United being 6th in the league is some sort of indicator to Shaw's performance being rubbish.
 

golden_blunder

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I agree. Just winning the ball back and giving it to someone else with an easy pass just isn't sufficient any more for a full back. Full backs are having an increasing significance in modern football to the point where they are often the playmakers of the team. Look at Trent/Robertson, Cancelo for City, Reece James/Chilwell for Chelsea. Top teams all have full backs which contribute significantly to the attacking side of the game.

My biggest concern with AWB is that even though he is young and still developing, in the 2 years he's been here his attacking creativity has barely progressed. It may improve under Ragnick but there's nothing to suggest his technical ability has got any better or is going to.
Last season ONLY Liverpool had a fullback pairing that created more goals

now I don’t know what’s happened this year but last year disagrees with your post
 

Stobzilla

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I have, but AWB wouldn't improve Everton's defence as of now. Listen I don't want Coleman but he would improve our defence over AWB going forward.
Coleman has been shocking for a while now any positives you get from his attacking would still result in a net loss when considering his defending.
 

Chief123

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Last season ONLY Liverpool had a fullback pairing that created more goals

now I don’t know what’s happened this year but last year disagrees with your post
I don't think we need to look at stats to know how important full backs are in the attacking part of the game. A full back can contribute greatly to an attack and be involved heavily in a goal but not receive an assist for it. This would do the player injustice from a statistical point of view. But you can clearly see AWB is very awkward when it comes to the attacking third or even controlling the ball in tight difficult situations which is often the case in the final 3rd. He really does need to imrove this side massively if he's going to excel at the top level.
 
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