Adrien Rabiot | signs 1 year deal at Juventus. See you all next year

[InfiniteBoredom]

No. Pep just does it the best.. so it’s easy to use him as a reference point as people tend to think you aren’t doing it right if you don’t look like them.

So two players that can pass a football. We just going to ignore Fellaini, Chris Smalling and the rest of them guys then? Juan Mata left us just last season. You’re not doing well on backing your points.

Yes their teams have improved and that’s what we are tying to do. Did Liverpool improve by getting Mata and Carrick type players? I’ll answer it for you. No.

So why do you have a problem with how we are improving? Again it reverts back to what you believe style represents improvement. That is not how football works.

Your last paragraph is made up BS.

You are the one who keep bringing Pep into this when I already said he’s not the one we necessarily need to emulate. You seem incapable or unwilling to acknowledge that having players who can pass often and accurately will improve a football team, even if the team doesn’t monopolize possession.

LvG had worse players in some positions and better in others. Of the team that started at Juanfield, Valencia, Blind, Mata, Carrick, Herrera, Fellaini are all on par or better in possession than their counterpart in the current team. And they went up against a bloody Joe Allen Alberto Moreno Jordan Henderson midfield, so your point was nonsensical to begin with, that was a shit Liverpool team.

Liverpool improved by getting in a a central defender who can pass, a goalkeeper who can pass, a RB who is actually a midfielder in masquerade, a false 9 who was a midfielder and 2 great wide attackers. They had enough playmaking quality elsewhere to make up for an industrious midfield with the specific remit of harrying the opponents and winning the ball back without being tasked specifically to create. And even that game plan became unsustainable after a couple of season and they started going long, a lot, then brought in a passing maestro in Thiago himself. And with Thiago they still didn't hog possession, but that was enough to nearly did the quadruple.

I think we improved this season, but EtH was hamstrung a lot by existing personnel + what we could and couldnt do last summer. The question is not just about improvement, we could sign Kovacic or Granit Xhaka probably and still improve a bit, that's how bad McFred were, but the ceiling of the improvment. For me, a Declan Rice/Casemiro/Mount/Bruno midfield will never be the absolute best in the business, it won't dominate teams and we would start most big games on the backfoot. We might still win those matches if we have qualities elsewhere but that vision of football neither excites or assures me about our long term standing in the game. That midfield set up will still leave us relying solely on Bruno for creativity and it still leaves us pinned back when aggressively pressed.

And you must not have watched us often this season to not think we were under the cosh at the death for a lot of games, and was bailed out by Dave, or our inability to pass had us pinned back in multiple games that EtH often had to introduce an extra midfielder or defender to shore up the team. I'd wager we wouldn't have had that issue if the players could string together a few passes without turning it over, but apparently you think it's made up BS.

 

[JPRouve]

Is he more about passing in our system or more about defending and breaking the opposition?

It depends on what you want, he has done both at a pretty high level. But in general he is balanced and his immediate transition is through carries more than passes.

 

[MadMike]

And Liverpool achieved that with a team full of asthmatics who conveniently had years when they suddenly couldn’t run for shit for half the season. And they moved on from that energetic midfield formula with Thiago signing.

I mean, if you're going to go into conspiracy theory over doping to justify your position then maybe it's not a very good one. Yes he did try to change the formula with Thiago, but it didn't particularly go well. Thiago played less than half the EPL minutes last year due to injuries with a host of players filling in his spot. Their midfield still wasn't as good as with Wijnaldum. And if the rumours about Mac Allister are true, sounds like he's going back to the tried and tested energetic midfield.

 

[Siorac]

And with Thiago they still didn't hog possession, but that was enough to nearly did the quadruple.

Liverpool were 'hogging the ball' with or without Thiago. It's a common misconception that they weren't a possession-focused team: in 19/20 when they won the league by a country mile, they averaged 64.4% possession. For comparison, our average this season was 53.8%, City's was 65.1%.

 

[Erik the Red]

I kind of don’t want him anymore. I just don’t see where he joins and becomes a starter. It will lead him to pulling a strop. I thought he was a DLP but I don’t think he is one.

Casemiro/ Rice
Eriksen/ new DLP (de Jong 24’)
Mount/ Bruno
Youngsters like Hannibal & Mainoo is the perfect balance of midfielders.

I think most fans would be happy with Rice, FDJ and Mount, but that is about £200m, and we still want Costa, Min-Jae, Frimpong, Kane and Hojlund, probably another £250m. That would be one heck of a squad:

Costa / DDJ
Frimpong / AWB
Min-Jae / Varane
Martinez / Lindelof
Shaw / Malacia
Casemiro / Rice
De Jong / Eriksen
Bruno / Mount
Antony / Sancho
Kane / Hojlund
Rashford / Garnacho

That is what I'm talking about when I say it should be difficult to tell who is the first XI and who is the second XI!!!

 

[JPRouve]

Liverpool were 'hogging the ball' with or without Thiago. It's a common misconception that they weren't a possession-focused team: in 19/20 when they won the league by a country mile, they averaged 64.4% possession. For comparison, our average this season was 53.8%, City's was 65.1%.

People assume that an industrious midfield means that its members can't pass the ball or maintain possession. Liverpool were able to maintain possession easily with that midfield but they relied heavily on their front three and fullbacks when it came to chance creation, their midfield was focused on breaking play and recycling the ball.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

In reality it is fairly rare, seems not the case because of recent events, I'm not really in favour of aiming to humiliate any team either, sure it may happen on the day, but actively seeking it is likely to be self-defeating over time

The humiliation is a by-product, the main point is to play your own game at away ground instead of looking to hunker down. EtH himself would agree with this and he caught a lot of grief for it this season, but I actually agree that it should be the way forward, we should look to play our own game better instead of abandoning it for the sake of result.

I mean, if you're going to go into conspiracy theory over doping to justify your position then maybe it's not a very good one. Yes he did try to change the formula with Thiago, but it didn't particularly go well. Thiago played less than half the EPL minutes last year due to injuries with a host of players filling in his spot. Their midfield still wasn't as good as with Wijnaldum. And if the rumours about Mac Allister are true, sounds like he's going back to the tried and tested energetic midfield.

It's legal doping, there's nothing illegal about prescribed sabutamol, coffee and sugared drinks, so not really a conspiracy, unless you think Liverpool FC just happen to attract a disproportionate amount of asthmatic footballers compared to other teams.

Mac Allister is a better passer than many are giving him credit for. I had previously said we should look to buy him, he's more than just a workhorse and his performance at the WC especially against the fancy names in France midfield proved it, and Brighton's midfield were all over us in the occasions we played each other this season, or last season, and it certainly was down to more than just winning 2nd balls.

 

[bosnian_red]

I kind of don’t want him anymore. I just don’t see where he joins and becomes a starter. It will lead him to pulling a strop. I thought he was a DLP but I don’t think he is one.

Casemiro/ Rice
Eriksen/ new DLP (de Jong 24’)
Mount/ Bruno
Youngsters like Hannibal & Mainoo is the perfect balance of midfielders.

Rice is a complete nothing rumor. Nobody is spending 100m on a 24 year old to sit him behind a guy who has roughly 3 elite years left.

It'll be:
Mount - Casemiro - Bruno as the starting 3.

Eriksen and Rabiot as the depth for them. Rabiot can do 6/8, Eriksen can do 8/10 along with Bruno and Mount. It's a good group, a high energy and high quality group. Hannibal will be loan or sold and Mainoo will be loaned or just have limited cup minutes, as he's too young still.

 

[Mainoldo]

You are the one who keep bringing Pep into this when I already said he’s not the one we necessarily need to emulate. You seem incapable or unwilling to acknowledge that having players who can pass often and accurately will improve a football team, even if the team doesn’t monopolize possession.

LvG had worse players in some positions and better in others. Of the team that started at Juanfield, Valencia, Blind, Mata, Carrick, Herrera, Fellaini are all on par or better in possession than their counterpart in the current team. And they went up against a bloody Joe Allen Alberto Moreno Jordan Henderson midfield, so your point was nonsensical to begin with, that was a shit Liverpool team.

Liverpool improved by getting in a a central defender who can pass, a goalkeeper who can pass, a RB who is actually a midfielder in masquerade, a false 9 who was a midfielder and 2 great wide attackers. They had enough playmaking quality elsewhere to make up for an industrious midfield with the specific remit of harrying the opponents and winning the ball back without being tasked specifically to create. And even that game plan became unsustainable after a couple of season and they started going long, a lot, then brought in a passing maestro in Thiago himself. And with Thiago they still didn't hog possession, but that was enough to nearly did the quadruple.

I think we improved this season, but EtH was hamstrung a lot by existing personnel + what we could and couldnt do last summer. The question is not just about improvement, we could sign Kovacic or Granit Xhaka probably and still improve a bit, that's how bad McFred were, but the ceiling of the improvment. For me, a Declan Rice/Casemiro/Mount/Bruno midfield will never be the absolute best in the business, it won't dominate teams and we would start most big games on the backfoot. We might still win those matches if we have qualities elsewhere but that vision of football neither excites or assures me about our long term standing in the game. That midfield set up will still leave us relying solely on Bruno for creativity and it still leaves us pinned back when aggressively pressed.

And you must not have watched us often this season to not think we were under the cosh at the death for a lot of games, and was bailed out by Dave, or our inability to pass had us pinned back in multiple games that EtH often had to introduce an extra midfielder or defender to shore up the team. I'd wager we wouldn't have had that issue if the players could string together a few passes without turning it over, but apparently you think it's made up BS.

It has nothing to do with can they pass. This is the modern joke along with stats. He just brought better players.

Declan Rice is one of the best out there whether he can pass like Luka Modric doesn’t dictate how good your team will be. ETH wants better players who suit his philosophy. His philosophy doesn’t start and end with can a player PASS

The ignorance of some fans these days.

 

[Mainoldo]

People assume that an industrious midfield means that its members can't pass the ball or maintain possession. Liverpool were able to maintain possession easily with that midfield but they relied heavily on their front three and fullbacks when it came to chance creation, their midfield was focused on breaking play and recycling the ball.

Atleast you get it. It’s similar to this new concept that fast players can’t be creative.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

Liverpool were 'hogging the ball' with or without Thiago. It's a common misconception that they weren't a possession-focused team: in 19/20 when they won the league by a country mile, they averaged 64.4% possession. For comparison, our average this season was 53.8%, City's was 65.1%.

Precisely, since their 58% in Klopp's first full season, they've never averaged less than 60% possession over the season. So to think that you must play like Pep just because you play possession football is clearly nonsense.

 

[JPRouve]

Atleast you get it. It’s similar to this new concept that fast players can’t be creative.

What is that supposed to mean? People call me Don Balon, le Prince de la balle, Il Principe Del Calcio.

 

[MadMike]

Allegedly he is asking for €10m net in wages. At least that was mentioned in regards to Bayern‘s interest in him.

That's a very high salary, in the UK tax regime that works out at about £16.3m per year (or £315k pw) gross.

However if that's the total of his demands it's still manageable, considering you'd pay at least £50m just to sign a player of that calibre in today's market. And if you don't want to upset your budget structure you just make it appear as a sign-on bonus structured to be paid weekly over the duration of the contract. So you can do £30m as sign-on bonus and ~£35m as salary. And now it becomes ~£170k pw.

Reminder that we already have plenty of players above £300k pw and about to get more with Rashford's renewal.

Spoiler: squad salaries at start of season

 

[Mainoldo]

Precisely, since their 58% in Klopp's first full season, they've never averaged less than 60% possession over the season. So to think that you must play like Pep just because you play possession football is clearly nonsense.

They don’t play possession football which is the whole bloody entire point.

 

[croadyman]

I kind of don’t want him anymore. I just don’t see where he joins and becomes a starter. It will lead him to pulling a strop. I thought he was a DLP but I don’t think he is one.

Casemiro/ Rice
Eriksen/ new DLP (de Jong 24’)
Mount/ Bruno
Youngsters like Hannibal & Mainoo is the perfect balance of midfielders.

I am convinced that Erik doesn’t see another DLP outside of him,therefore we will have to play in a different way. The concern of not having this kind of player means we can't ever dominate the ball in midfield and control games effectively

 

[Red in STL]

The humiliation is a by-product, the main point is to play your own game at away ground instead of looking to hunker down. EtH himself would agree with this and he caught a lot of grief for it this season, but I actually agree that it should be the way forward, we should look to play our own game better instead of abandoning it for the sake of result.

I don't think you can always do that, in the recent past United have beaten City on their own ground by essentially hunkering down and hitting them on the break, and TBH, recent humiliations are more to do with standard of players rather than tactics

One thing I do know, if we play our "normal" game against City in the cup final we'll not be celebrating!

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

It has nothing to do with can they pass. This is the modern joke along with stats. He just brought better players.

Declan Rice is one of the best out there whether he can pass like Luka Modric doesn’t dictate how good your team will be. ETH wants better players who suit his philosophy. His philosophy doesn’t start and end with can a player PASS

The ignorance of some fans these days.

His philosophy DOES depend on a player being able to pass well, or you think it's just a coincidence that Licha plays instead of Maguire, Eriksen instead of McFred and De Gea had to actually use his feet this season?

He's not Pep, he doesn't see possession as a defensive measure or uncomfortable to play without the ball, and his team generally look to progress the ball up the pitch very quickly, but that doesn't mean he doesn't like possession. Ajax averaged 63-64% under his reign, although in isolated cup matches they would have less than the opponent. Our % this season, if anything, is an aberration in his career.

They don’t play possession football which is the whole bloody entire point.

Consistent 60%+ possession for multiple season IS possession football. It's just not Pep's, or LvG's football.

I don't think you can always do that, in the recent past United have beaten City on their own ground by essentially hunkering down and hitting them on the break, and TBH, recent humiliations are more to do with standard of players rather than tactics

One thing I do know, if we play our "normal" game against City in the cup final we'll not be celebrating!

It's because we are not good enough yet.

The long term goal should be to be good enough so we can play our own game against them and win. They can do it, so can we.

 

[MadMike]

Precisely, since their 58% in Klopp's first full season, they've never averaged less than 60% possession over the season. So to think that you must play like Pep just because you play possession football is clearly nonsense.

The point was that you can dominate possession by pressing other teams effectively with your energetic midfield and getting it back quickly, even if you don't have supreme passers within your midfield. That's what Klopp did.

 

[Bebestation]

Rice is a complete nothing rumor. Nobody is spending 100m on a 24 year old to sit him behind a guy who has roughly 3 elite years left.

It'll be:
Mount - Casemiro - Bruno as the starting 3.

Eriksen and Rabiot as the depth for them. Rabiot can do 6/8, Eriksen can do 8/10 along with Bruno and Mount. It's a good group, a high energy and high quality group. Hannibal will be loan or sold and Mainoo will be loaned or just have limited cup minutes, as he's too young still.

Well you could say the same thing about Kim.

Why spend 45 million on him just to sit him on the bench?

 

[Tony247]

Here we go again ....

How can we resist?

 

[Abraxas]

I think possession was just a byproduct for that Klopp team. I get the impression it wasn't a very significant focus in comparison to the way Pep or prime Barca would see football. Those teams press very well, but Klopp had a feral type of pressing going on, it was the main thing.

I doubt he was at the chalkboard emphasising the virtues of 65% possession. The main ingredient of that team was aggression and physicality. It shut off passing lanes for the opposition. The opponents had no option but to concede ground otherwise they'd be ripped apart on transition. They wouldn't really need a conductor in midfield for that type of game. It's kind of weird to envisage Fabinho and Henderson as that type when it suits the argument. Then when England show a laborious midfield Henderson is a clogger. So which is it? I think it's clear what they are, they had a high work rate and good technical competency with more emphasis on the former.

Then look at the stylistic make-up of the team. The front 3 were extremely gifted technically. Especially Firmino. This really matters because if you have guys lumping it from 35 yards or trying to dribble 4 players without getting their head up then you will routinely gift possession. They also had good play out of the back and elite production at full back which also matters so you can compensate for the midfield composition.

There were all sorts of elements going into how they monopolised possession without the traditional idea of tiki taka midfielders. It shows what is possible, for sure.

 

[JPRouve]

Consistent 60%+ possession for multiple season IS possession football. It's just not Pep's, or LvG's football.

Not exactly. Possession Football doesn't describe the end but the mean, it describes the focus on keeping possession until you create a low risk high reward situation. Klopp's Liverpool were not like that, their possession stats were the fruit of their ability to create a very amount of pressures and the ability to regain possession very quickly, their chance creation also relied on regaining possession deep into the opposition half. That's also true for the best version of Tottenham under Pochettino. Neither of these teams were possession teams.

 

[Red in STL]

Well you could say the same thing about Kim.

Why spend 45 million on him just to sit him on the bench?

Rice is a multi-tool option, he's not sitting behind anyone, the flexibility he brings is the capability to play different roles, he can be a CDM, he can be a ball carrier and he can also cover CB, that latter capability could be enough not to have to replace Maguire immediately

As for Kim, if was to come to us he'll be coming to play instead of Varane, can't see that happening and Kim's not likely to want to be a back-up

 

[bosnian_red]

Well you could say the same thing about Kim.

Why spend 45 million on him just to sit him on the bench?

We most likely aren't doing it, purely for that reason. But the argument for it if we do, would be Varane is injury prone, not as good on the ball, older, and that price is a steal for Kim Min Jae who is arguably a better CB for Ten Hag. Casemiro isn't injury prone, he's arguably the best in the world, and Rice is horrendously overpriced.

 

[cheekybackheel]

I would never take Rabiot, he'd be too much hassle and his mum would want her own gold plated seat on the bench if the Qataris took over.

Avoid like the plague.

 

[Abraxas]

I would never take Rabiot, he'd be too much hassle and his mum would want her own gold plated seat on the bench if the Qataris took over.

Avoid like the plague.

I think this factor is a bit overrated.

His mum might give her 2 pence worth, but she's not gracing the pitch as part of the deal as far as we know. It's only relevant in so far as it impacts performance, and on recent evidence, it hasn't been impacting performance.

 

[croadyman]

I think this factor is a bit overrated.

His mum might give her 2 pence worth, but she's not gracing the pitch as part of the deal as far as we know. It's only relevant in so far as it impacts performance, and on recent evidence, it hasn't been impacting performance.

Yeah she just wants to get best deal for her son

 

[MadMike]

I think this factor is a bit overrated.

His mum might give her 2 pence worth, but she's not gracing the pitch as part of the deal as far as we know. It's only relevant in so far as it impacts performance, and on recent evidence, it hasn't been impacting performance.

To be fair, I didn't really like the era with Raiola talking shit about us on the press ahead of every big game even if he never graced the pitch. I'd like to avoid that again if we can. I don't think Veronique has been a problem since her son left PSG though

 

[dinostar77]

Is he more about passing in our system or more about defending and breaking the opposition?

He can do both, pass with accuracy and get stuck in and tackle. Thats what makes him so useful. In old money he'd be a box to box midfielder.

 

[Ted Lasso]

I think this factor is a bit overrated.

His mum might give her 2 pence worth, but she's not gracing the pitch as part of the deal as far as we know. It's only relevant in so far as it impacts performance, and on recent evidence, it hasn't been impacting performance.

It is and like 3 or 4 years old. Has had a decent season with Juve and good World Cup as well. He'd improve us plenty.

 

[Abraxas]

To be fair, I didn't really like the era with Raiola talking shit about us on the press ahead of every big game even if he never graced the pitch. I'd like to avoid that again if we can. I don't think Veronique has been a problem since her son left PSG though

I would say Paul Pogba being routinely crap and/or unavailable was more significant to Man United than the comments of an agent in the press. That was really the crux of the issue around Pogba. We invested a lot to get not enough. Somewhere along the line his agent piping up is probably neither here nor there for me.

In football when things go well all these sideshows don't really have any bearing, they become a talking point when the results and direction are poor and we're looking for reasons outside of the obvious. The obvious usually being that the recruitment/coaching is bad.

If he was playing questionably I'd say we're right to worry about all the other stuff, but he's not. He's scoring for fun and playing well so whatever we think of his mum it doesn't seem to be causing anything problematic that would be worth turning our nose up at a free transfer for.

 

[croadyman]

I would say Paul Pogba being routinely crap and/or unavailable was more significant to Man United than the comments of an agent in the press. That was really the crux of the issue around Pogba. We invested a lot to get not enough. Somewhere along the line his agent piping up is probably neither here nor there for me.

In football when things go well all these sideshows don't really have any bearing, they become a talking point when the results and direction are poor and we're looking for reasons outside of the obvious. The obvious usually being that the recruitment/coaching is bad.

If he was playing questionably and say yes we're right to worry about all the other stuff, but he's not. He's scoring for fun and playing well.

Yeah that's a very good point

 

[Bebestation]

Rice is a multi-tool option, he's not sitting behind anyone, the flexibility he brings is the capability to play different roles, he can be a CDM, he can be a ball carrier and he can also cover CB, that latter capability could be enough not to have to replace Maguire immediately

As for Kim, if was to come to us he'll be coming to play instead of Varane, can't see that happening and Kim's not likely to want to be a back-up

This is what I’m seeing too.

I can’t see us signing Kim to drop Varane. I’ve watched videos of Kim and he doesn’t really look like Ten Hag’s type of central defender either - though I could be wrong.

Lindelof has been a good 3rd CB.

If we sign Rice - we sign a cover for Casemiro (which we need badly), a partner for Casemiro (very hard to penetrate), the future replacement of Casemiro and a player that can play number 8 and RCB all in one.

 

[croadyman]

He can do both, pass with accuracy and get stuck in and tackle. Thats what makes him so useful. In old money he'd be a box to box midfielder.

That's why I don't get why we want him and Mount instead of getting a Caicedo/DLP

 

[JPRouve]

I think this factor is a bit overrated.

His mum might give her 2 pence worth, but she's not gracing the pitch as part of the deal as far as we know. It's only relevant in so far as it impacts performance, and on recent evidence, it hasn't been impacting performance.

It's extremely overrated because Rabiot himself isn't and hasn't been an issue for anyone. And because no one actually cares about Ms Rabiot, she isn't different to other agents.

 

[dinostar77]

That's why I don't get why we want him and Mount instead of getting a Caicedo/DLP

Caicedo doesnt have the ability going forwards that Mount or Rabiot have to thread a pass or to control the play. That would be my presumption.

Whos DLP? I have brain fog.

 

[croadyman]

Caicedo doesnt have the ability going forwards that Mount or Rabiot have to thread a pass or to control the play. That would be my presumption.

Whos DLP? I have brain fog.

Sorry Deep Lying Playmaker

 

[MadMike]

If he was playing questionably I'd say we're right to worry about all the other stuff, but he's not. He's scoring for fun and playing well so whatever we think of his mum it doesn't seem to be causing anything problematic that would be worth turning our nose up at a free transfer for.

If the team is playing well and her son is starting every week and getting paid on time, I expect her to be happy as Larry.

But while I agree with the rest of the post, I think we need to consider what happens if he's playing questionably and ends up being benched for a while. Players go through bad patches. He's not always been great at Juve either. I don't want to be hearing shit from Veronique if her son is not playing.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

The point was that you can dominate possession by pressing other teams effectively with your energetic midfield and getting it back quickly, even if you don't have supreme passers within your team. That's what Klopp did.

The supreme passers in their team are their keeper and CB/RB. And they don't have a Bruno, which, let's face it, as good as he is, does give away the ball more than his fair share, and often in dodgy areas of the pitch. And at their best, Mane/Firmino/Salah were much more secure in possessions than our attackers (bar top form Martial, but that's unicorn these days)

If we replace De Gea with Costa, then maybe I can be on board with that game plan (even then we still need to replace AWB/Dalot with a better RB in the build up), but as it is, I think our build up and chance creation will suffer a lot still if we don't get a press resistant, voluminous passer in the mould of Veratti/De Jong and replace Eriksen with Rice/Mount/Rabiot. Eriksen has 10 assists this season in 2600 mins this season, he is at 90+ percentile for assist, xA, progressive pass, shot creating action, 89 percentile for passes attempted. He's weak defensively, but he's also a big source of creativity in the team, especially when our wide forwards like to shoot more than create (bar Sancho, but he has other issues)

Not exactly. Possession Football doesn't describe the end but the mean, it describes the focus on keeping possession until you create a low risk high reward situation. Klopp's Liverpool were not like that, their possession stats were the fruit of their ability to create a very amount of pressures and the ability to regain possession very quickly, their chance creation also relied on regaining possession deep into the opposition half. That's also true for the best version of Tottenham under Pochettino. Neither of these teams were possession teams.

I think you can argue that possession football refer to a very specific style, and if you term every team who enjoy high % as a possession team then the term loses its meaning. But equally, I think the term describe a variety of way a team can play, and there is already evolution in the game that makes it dodgy when describing different teams even if they follow the same school. The Cruyffian Barca would be a far cry from the Pep Barca, the Enrique team that followed, the LvG Ajax, Bayern or the Heynckeys and Flick that followed, the 3peat Real Madrid (60% avg). I would class them all as playing a variation of possession football, each just value it differently, but the commonality is there is a high minimum level they enjoy of the ball to play their football. A manager and team who set out to control the ball most of the team play possession football, Pep is just an extreme case who by his own admission hates it when his team doesn't have the ball and use it as a the primary defensive measure.

It's the Simeone and Mourinho of the world who can be categorically described as anti-possession football, the 'the team with the ball makes more mistake' mentality.

 

[croadyman]

The supreme passers in their team are their keeper and CB/RB. And they don't have a Bruno, which, let's face it, as good as he is, does give away the ball more than his fair share, and often in dodgy areas of the pitch. And at their best, Mane/Firmino/Salah were much more secure in possessions than our attackers (bar top form Martial, but that's unicorn these days)

If we replace De Gea with Costa, then maybe I can be on board with that game plan (even then we still need to replace AWB/Dalot with a better RB in the build up), but as it is, I think our build up and chance creation will suffer a lot still if we don't get a press resistant, voluminous passer in the mould of Veratti/De Jong and replace Eriksen with Rice/Mount/Rabiot. Eriksen has 10 assists this season in 2600 mins this season, he is at 90+ percentile for assist, xA, progressive pass, shot creating action, 89 percentile for passes attempted. He's weak defensively, but he's also a big source of creativity in the team, especially when our wide forwards like to shoot more than create (bar Sancho, but he has other issues)


I think you can argue that possession football refer to a very specific style, and if you term every team who enjoy high % as a possession team then the term loses its meaning. But equally, I think the term describe a variety of way a team can play, and there is already evolution in the game that makes it dodgy when describing different teams even if they follow the same school. The Cruyffian Barca would be a far cry from the Pep Barca, the Enrique team that followed, the LvG Ajax, Bayern or the Heynckeys and Flick that followed, the 3peat Real Madrid (60% avg). I would class them all as playing a variation of possession football, each just value it differently, but the commonality is there is a high minimum level they enjoy of the ball to play their football. A manager and team who set out to control the ball most of the team play possession football, Pep is just an extreme case who by his own admission hates it when his team doesn't have the ball and use it as a the primary defensive measure.

It's the Simeone and Mourinho of the world who can be categorically described as anti-possession football, the 'the team with the ball makes more mistake' mentality.

Yeah definitely need that De Jong/Verratti type