All Time ODI Cricket Draft FINALS: KM vs NM/prath

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Welcome to the FINALS !!! of the ODI cricket draft. Some basic rules to consider while voting:

1) Judge players only on the basis of their ODI records.
2) Base your vote on which team you think is more likely to win an ODI between the two.
3) The poll will remain open for 24 hours after creation.

Pitch Condition: Hard deck. Supports seam bowling. Medium support for bounce and less for spinners.

Toss: Team KM won the toss and elected to field. Team NM/prath bats first

The XIs:

Team KM

1. Sachin Tendulkar (Ind)
   
2. Hashim Amla (SA)
   
3. Joe Root (Eng)
   
4. Aravinda De Silva (Sri)
   
5. Angelo Matthews (Sri)
   
6. Jos Buttler (Eng) (WK)
   
7. Imran Khan (Pak) (Captain)
   
8. Sir Richard Hadlee (NZ)
   
9. Allan Donald (SA)
10. Gillespie (Aus)
    
11. Saeed Ajmal (Pak)

Team NM

1. Gary Kirsten (SA)
   
2. Mathew Hayden (Aus)
   
3. Virat Kohli (Ind)
   
4. Jacques Kallis (SA)
5. Shivnarine Chanderpaul (WI)
6. MS Dhoni (Ind)
7. Andrew Flintoff (Eng)
8. Wasim Akram (Pak)
   
9. Nathan Bracken (Aus)
   
10. Andy Roberts (WI)
11. Muttiah Muralitharan (Sri)

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

TEAM KM

1. Tendulkar
2. Amla
3. Root
4. Da Silva
5. Matthews
6. Buttler(WK)
7. Imran Khan(Captain)
8. Hadlee
9. Donald
10. Gillespie
11. Ajmal

1) Greatest Opening partnership: I've without a doubt the best opening partnership in the draft. On one side, you've got Amla who's got a fairly ridiculous average of 52 and strike of 90 in ODI's and on the other side you've got the GOAT, Tendulkar. Nuff said. On a flat batting pitch they'll be absolute monsters who'll take apart any bowling attack in the world/

2) Solid Middle Order: Root, De Silva and Matthews(averages a cool 51 at number fifth) are both capable of solidifying the innings, whilst all amassing quick runs themselves. So even if I lose an early wicket(very unlikely), I could turn to middle order to solidify the innings and take the game in the later stages for

3) Aggressive lower order batsmen: After the platform has been laid down by my top order. In Buttler I posses one of the most aggressive batsmen in the world right now. Buttler has England’s three fastest centuries in their history. Imran Khan and Hadlee wre very good with the bat too.

4) With the trio of Hadlee, Donald and Imran in the team, I've got three of the best ODI bowlers ever. I'll get to bowl on it when the pitch is fresh. With Hadlee and Imran opening the bowling for me(two of the greatest swing bowlers in the world) I don't believe NM's opening partnership will be able to sustain my bowling. On the first change I've got Allan Donald who's fast and ridiculous whilst Gillespie will be doing the role that he always did for Australia i.e to complement the fast bowlers.

5) Depth in bowling: In addition to the main bowlers I’ve listed, I’ve also got Angelo Matthews who bowls his full quota of 10 overs in their respective sides and have more than 100 or so wickets. If the ball is spinning, then De Silva, Tendulkar and Root will provide me even more options.

6) The Murali factor: Whilst there is absolute no doubt that Murali was better than Ajmal, however I'd like to add this pitch has minimal support for Spin, so whilst Spin maybe a factor in the other match but in this match it shouldn't be a factor considering there's very less support for spin. That's not to say that Murali won't be effective but in places(traditionally) where spin doesn't matter much i.e Australia, NZ, England, WI and SA. Murali averages 26.03 whilst Ajmal averages 25.68. Some people will no doubt be going back to Ajmal's action which shouldn't be a factor as it was said in OP that players should be judged on their record, I might remind you that Murali was called for chucking three four times. So keep that in mind whilst voting.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Team NM/prath:

Batting tactics

All of our batsmen are adept at pace bowling. Opening is hayden and Kirsten who are both adept at playing seam bowling, especially Kirsten who was one of the best openers of the 90s, often batting against some of the best bowlers of that era. Following them is Virat Kohli, who is perhaps the best player of the modern era having 25 centuries, 11 of which are batting first. So he is just as brilliant playing first as well. In at no.4, is Jacques Kallis who is a very good batsman to have at 4 and will play according to the situation and will ensure that the runs will continue at a decent rate. Shiv Chanderpaul is in at 5, again another very solid batsman who is capable of playing according to the situation. Following him is one of the best finishers of the modern era who has a very good record in the seam pitches of Aus,Eng and all and averages 50 while batting first. So he will be just as effective here as he is anywhere else. Flintoff at 7 will get us to a decent total with some shots at the end and Akram is also a handy batsman at 8 with 6 50s in his ODI career. The opponents' bowlers are very good but our batsmen have the experience and ability to get us to a very competitive total.


Bowling Tactics

Opening the bowling is Wasim Akram and Andy Roberts, two of the top bowlers of their respective era. Wasim with his intelligent swing to both sides which most batsmen found hard to play. Andy Roberts with his natural swing away from the batsmen and extreme pace which will restrict the openers and may even force mistakes from them with the pressure to chase causing their wickets to fall. First bowling change is Nathan Bracken who at his prime was the top ranked bowler and forced McGrath to bowl first change in 2007 world cup. WIth his wily change of pace, swing both ways and excellent yorkers Andrew Flintoff is the other bowling option who was a very very good LOI bowler for England and could swing both ways and also could reverse it and had an excellent yorkers. Muttiah Muralitharan who holds the record for most wickets in ODIs and was thought to be chucking early on in his career but was cleared and then continued to be excellent with his effectiveness. He had excellent hauls in most seam pitches with good haul of wickets in 2003 WC (SA), 2007 WC (WI). He is difficult to score against and will stifle the runs. Jacques Kallis will be another excellent option here with almost 300 ODI wickets and bowling most games for South Africa as well. Our bowling is in fact complimentary with very good support bowlers (Bracken was a good support bowler for mcgrath and he can be just as good for Akram and Roberts as well. Flintoff is an excellent bowler as well and Murali can be very miserly when he wants even in pitches like this. He is a thinking bowler who also has lots of ability. Kallis will be a very good option to have if we need another bowling option.

Why we will Win

Even though it may seem so, our bowling isnt inferior to KM's in anyway. Wasim Akram was without a doubt a much better ODI bowler than Imran Khan. Imran was Akram's mentor but Akram took swing bowling to a devastating level in LOI which maybe no one has matched yet. Andy Roberts was in no way inferior to Richard Hadlee and was just as effective in ODIs . Murali was probably matched only by Warne in LOI and is very much superior to Ajmal in his prime, as good as ajmal was. Flintoff is also a better bowler than Gillespie or at worst, is in no way inferior. Kallis is an excellent 6th bowling option and Mathews is a good bowler but Kallis is better than mathews both statistically and ability wise. Donald is of course a top bowler and better than Bracken, even though Bracken is an excellent bowler himself. Overall the bowling is at worst, even (with us maybe even shading it a bit). Akram is probably the best bowler on the pitch. None of KM's other bowling options are better than average (most of them part time spinners who may not be effective in such pitches- especially our batsmen adept at spin). Overall our bowlers have almost 200 wickets more in comparison to the opposition bowlers. We have the best fast bowler and spinner as well.

Batting wise, the opening partnership of Amla and Sachin are very very good and there is no denying it. But rest of the batting lineup isnt anything extra-ordinary,even though they are good players. Our batsmen, with openers, though not as good as their counterparts here, are very very good themselves. Most of the rest of the batting lineup is superior on our side and our batsmen are also playing in positions they have very good records in. There are batsmen in the opposition who are playing in positions they dont really have a good record in, which is definitely an important weakness in ODI as different positions have different roles. With the bowling attack we have they wont find it easy to score especially in a chase and with pressure on them and the required RR always a sword over them, we can force more mistakes and get them out. Our bowlers are excellent and can definitely take advantage of this.

 

[NM]

@KM we didn't even mention Ajmaal's chucking. Guilty conscience

I have the best quick and spinner in this game, as well as a much stronger middle order.

 

[NM]

@Edgar Allan Pillow Prath92 is equal captain here. I'm just chief selector

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

@prath92 amended. can you delete your post to keep OPs together?

@Skizzo delete your post and feck off!

 

[KM]

@KM we didn't even mention Ajmaal's chucking. Guilty conscience

I have the best quick and spinner in this game, as well as a much stronger middle order.

You mentioned it in the first game I played. Remember?

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

@Rado_N, can you create this poll please?

Title: Who will win the ODI?

• Team KM
• Team NM/prath

Vote options: can only pick 1 choice, votes can be changed, votes are public.

Thank You in Advance.

 

[KM]

Kallis and Chanderpaul have a strikerate of 72 and 70. They don't have an excuse of playing on those old pitches, most of their matches played are in modern conditions.

 

[KM]

Batting wise, the opening partnership of Amla and Sachin are very very good and there is no denying it. But rest of the batting lineup isnt anything extra-ordinary,even though they are good players. Our batsmen, with openers, though not as good as their counterparts here, are very very good themselves. Most of the rest of the batting lineup is superior on our side and our batsmen are also playing in positions they have very good records in. There are batsmen in the opposition who are playing in positions they dont really have a good record in, which is definitely an important weakness in ODI as different positions have different roles. With the bowling attack we have they wont find it easy to score especially in a chase and with pressure on them and the required RR always a sword over them, we can force more mistakes and get them out. Our bowlers are excellent and can definitely take advantage of this.

Such blatant lies in the first opening post and this coming from a guy who took the moral high ground in the draft thread. @NM @prath92

That bolded part is nonsense. Da Silva, Root and Matthews actually average the highest in their respective positions as compared to their average in other position.

 

[Rado_N]

Poll added.

Every time I go to enter @KM it auto suggests "KM (who lies about his mod powers)"

 

[NM]

You mentioned it in the first game I played. Remember?

I didn't in this game. Ispecifically asked Prath not too as well. I wouldn't vote for Ajmal, and I wouldn't vote for Murali if it wasn't for the natural deformity.

Such blatant lies in the first opening post and this coming from a guy who took the moral high ground in the draft thread. @NM @prath92

Haveen't read it, but I don't think there is anything wrong with saying my middle order is comfortably better than yours.

 

[Skizzo]

@prath92 amended. can you delete your post to keep OPs together?

@Skizzo delete your post and feck off!

Great response. Aggressively worded request.

5/7. Would delete again.

 

[KM]

There are batsmen in the opposition who are playing in positions they dont really have a good record in, which is definitely an important weakness in ODI as different positions have different roles

Go and check Cricinfo about the players and their averages in the positions they're batting in my team.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Great response. Aggressively worded request.

5/7. Would delete again.

 

[KM]

I didn't in this game. Ispecifically asked Prath not too as well. I wouldn't vote for Ajmal, and I wouldn't vote for Murali if it wasn't for the natural deformity.




Haveen't read it, but I don't think there is anything wrong with saying my middle order is comfortably better than yours.

Maybe in test matches but your two mainstays have a combined strikerate of 71 which is pretty awful when you consider both of them played in the modern era.

My openers are a two classes above your openers aswell with probably the greatest ODI batsmen. You've got the best fast bowler on show but number 2nd, 3rd and 4th are in my team.

 

[KM]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

About Joe Root, posted right now. Obviously not better than Kohli but he's pretty awesome nonetheless.

 

[KM]

I've voted for myself too. @NM @prath92 one of your should do the same, makes the vote viewing easy.

 

[NM]

De Silva averages less than 30 in Aus, Eng and SA. 3 seam havens. Safe to say fast bowling is not his favourite suit. Plus Buttler and Imran averages less than 30 at 6 and 7 respectively. Not really suited to that situation.

Maybe in test matches but your two mainstays have a combined strikerate of 71 which is pretty awful when you consider both of them played in the modern era.

My openers are a two classes above your openers aswell with probably the greatest ODI batsmen. You've got the best fast bowler on show but number 2nd, 3rd and 4th are in my team.

Amla isn't a class above Hayden by any chance. Of course Sachin is the GOAT opener. I have one comment I want to make about him but I feel dirty aarguing against him. After him, your batting is ordinary.

Also note that my 6 bowlers have 200+ wickets more than your 7/8 (with part timers)

 

[NM]

I've voted for myself too. @NM @prath92 one of your should do the same, makes the vote viewing easy.

DDone

 

[KM]

Glad you mentioned the Da Silva thing. Hayden and Kirsten averages 34 in those same countries.

 

[KM]

Oh god, thanks for mentioning that. Dhoni averages 35 in the same countries.

 

[NM]

Glad you mentioned the Da Silva thing. Hayden and Kirsten averages 34 in those same countries.

Stats? I don't think that's possible with Hayden at all.

 

[KM]

Stats? I don't think that's possible with Hayden at all.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...rderby=default;template=results;type=allround

You're welcome. Amla's average increase 56 btw.

Hayden btw averages an abysmal 24 in England.

 

[NM]

Also think its a joke if you think Hayden couldn't play in seamer friendly conditions. Kirsten was no slouch there either. They were born and raised in them. Aus only changed to batman friendly in last 10 years, and SA has never been fully batsman friendly.

We all know Dhoni doesn't do the greatest in seaming conditions, but Hayden averages 38 in Aus and 74 in NZ.. Clearly doesn't know how to survive seam.

Kirsten averages 35 and 36 in SA and Aus. Clearly can't handle pace either.

Dhoni will come in and finish things off, I'm not worried

 

[KM]

So basically you've managed to make two of your openers and your best matchwinner useless by over quoting of stats. Dhoni's average of 35 is really average considering the number of not outs and the pitches he played on.

 

[NM]

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...rderby=default;template=results;type=allround

You're welcome. Amla's average increase 56 btw.

Hayden btw averages an abysmal 24 in England.

So suddenly this game is in England? I've mentioned in the excel he hasn't done well in England. Your welcome.

If you thtink Hayden can't handle seamers, you are wrong.

If you think modern averages of 50 aren't inflated, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[KM]

Also think its a joke if you think Hayden couldn't play in seamer friendly conditions. Kirsten was no slouch there either. They were born and raised in them. Aus only changed to batman friendly in last 10 years, and SA has never been fully batsman friendly.

We all know Dhoni doesn't do the greatest in seaming conditions, but Hayden averages 38 in Aus and 74 in NZ.. Clearly doesn't know how to survive seam.

Kirsten averages 35 and 36 in SA and Aus. Clearly can't handle pace either.

Dhoni will come in and finish things off, I'm not worried

Mentions the stats himself and then tells me to ignore them in the next post. Well done.

 

[KM]

So suddenly this game is in England? I've mentioned in the excel he hasn't done well in England. Your welcome.

If you thtink Hayden can't handle seamers, you are wrong.

If you think modern averages of 50 aren't inflated, I don't know what to tell you.

Which makes Dhoni's average of 35 even more awful, doesn't it?

 

[NM]

So basically you've managed to make two of your openers and your best matchwinner useless by over quoting of stats. Dhoni's average of 35 is really average considering the number of not outs and the pitches he played on.

You really are a bit annoying to play against. Nobody is useless. Average of 35+ in older times is better than the shit 40+ most battsmen have nowadays, but I guess you think the batsmen of the last 10 years are much better than the ones before them?

 

[crappycraperson]

Gone for KM. Butler is the odd one out here but prefer his bowling attack. Plus Sachin is comfortably the best batsman on the pitch.. I mean for ODIs no one else is even close.

 

[NM]

Mentions the stats himself and then tells me to ignore them in the next post. Well done.

Well done to you too. I had other stats as well. Unlike you who thinks your team is full of GOATS.

Kohli, Kallis, Chanderpaul, Dhoni, Flintoff is comfortably better than Root, Aravinda, Matthews, Butler, Imran.

Deluded if you think otherwise, but you seem good at that.

Lunch break over, I'll be online later

 

[crappycraperson]

If you think modern averages of 50 aren't inflated, I don't know what to tell you.

Bwahahaha.. says the guy with Kohli and Dhoni in his team!

 

[KM]

You really are a bit annoying to play against. Nobody is useless. Average of 35+ in older times is better than the shit 40+ most battsmen have nowadays, but I guess you think the batsmen of the last 10 years are much better than the ones before them?

Again I didn't bring the stats, you brought them out and have now seemingly backed out when they've shown that your batsmen also suffer.

Btw Amla is better than both Hayden and Kirsten, you might not agree to this but I'm sure many will.

 

[NM]

Again I didn't bring the stats, you brought them out and have now seemingly backed out when they've shown that your batsmen also suffer.

Btw Amla is better than both Hayden and Kirsten, you might not agree to this but I'm sure many will.

Are you having issues reading? I stated in my OP (and did in the last round too) that Hayden isn't good in England. Off to work

 

[KM]

Well done to you too. I had other stats as well. Unlike you who thinks your team is full of GOATS.

Kohli, Kallis, Chanderpaul, Dhoni, Flintoff is comfortably better than Root, Aravinda, Matthews, Butler, Imran.

Deluded if you think otherwise, but you seem good at that.

Lunch break over, I'll be online later

Are you having issues reading? I stated in my OP (and did in the last round too) that Hayden isn't good in England. Off to work

So it taken ten posts for you to call me deluded and asking if I'm having issues reading. There goes the moral high ground.

Anyway your middle order is better but my openers are comfortably better than yours and so is my pace bowling attack. On a swinging pitch, and with four quality bowlers they'll be relentless in dismissing your batting.

 

[crappycraperson]

Interesting whilst Kohli has all the hype, his and Amla's ODI records are very similar. Though Kohli has played much more clutch innings.

 

[prath92]

You take all of the regions together which will not be the right way to judge. Individually checking in regions would show whether they can adapt to a particular region since all regions are different especially in the 90s. Plus averages being only indicators can be seen as good at conditions of greater than 30 or poor in those conditions if average is less than 30. No batsman is going to score 50+ in every game and will have ups and downs so being liberal is ideal. We have been doing that all through the draft. But unless you feel that unless they average 50+ they wont be good enough?

Plus England have green tops anyways, so saying individually not adapting to England as some kind of a point has no relevance.

 

[KM]

You take all of the regions together which will not be the right way to judge. Individually checking in regions would show whether they can adapt to a particular region since all regions are different especially in the 90s. Plus averages being only indicators can be seen as good at conditions of greater than 30 or poor in those conditions if average is less than 30. No batsman is going to score 50+ in every game and will have ups and downs so being liberal is ideal. We have been doing that all through the draft. But unless you feel that unless they average 50+ they wont be good enough?

Plus England have green tops anyways, so saying individually not adapting to England as some kind of a point has no relevance.

It was your guy who mentioned Da Silva's average in those three countries. Read the thread, I didn't make a single mention of it. This is hilarious. He seemed lost in his argument and then proceeded to go away in a fit of rage.

 

[Akshay]

Every time I go to enter @KM it auto suggests "KM (who lies about his mod powers)"