Doubt he cares that much if he's willing to leave over 30k a week.
Ander Herrera to PSG? | Gone.
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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Are you even watching the games or just hanging out on stats sites? Herrera loses it less because he gets rid of the ball at the slightest pressure, which puts the recieving player under more pressure. Usually he just passes to the closest player because of his lack of range. Matic is on a decline so he'a obviously not as good as he used to be at holding the ball. But he gets dispossessed more because he tries to shield the ball more often much like Pogba does, who also gets dispossessed often. Herrera being good at shielding the ball is one of the most ridiculous things I read on here, the guy is built like a schoolboy.
Mourinho dumped the supposed poty as soon as a better and more suited to the system player was brought in.
As for the poty discussion, I just gave my opinion on that a few posts up. How about reading the thread before you post. Like I said, I have already explained my view on Herreras positional awareness issues in lengthy posts in this thread. If you want to have a discussion on that, then read the thread back, and quote me. I'm not gonna repeat everything I said because you won't bother to check what's been written.
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If your company had a Phil Jones and an Ashley young getting new contracts, would you not want more? He's been one of the most consistent players over the years for us.
What's that got to do with the amount we offered him? Reports are we offered him 9.5m a year - that's fecking plenty for a player of his level.
Reports.
How much did those guys receive?
I believe Jones got upgraded to Bupa plus and Young got given 10 free passes to pass it in to nobody and give possession away.
Wow....30k/week is a ton of money, you're talking as if it was nothing. I bet some on here don't even make 30K in a year. He's not a commercial star or anything, his salary is his main income. It's easy to look at football figures like it's a video game and isn't based on our reality but 30K/week is a huge difference.
Not that disappointed if he leaves but just annoying that we're getting no money from that scum club.
It's almost like footballers are bloody millionaires and it's not a good comparison that...
Point is, the reports said we're offering 170k, he wants 200k. If he's leaving over that he's clearly not all that bothered about going.
And at 30K a week comes out to 1.5m over the year. You can be a millionaire all you want, it's still silly to dismiss that as something he should get over for 'the love of the badge' or whatever. It's a business, of course he's not too bothered about going, he's not an academy product or anything and even they can have the desire to leave at times; Manchester isn't that amazing of a city to live in compared to other destinations and the love of a club only goes so far in today's game. That's just the reality.
I think Herrera is most suited as the ball winner specialist in a three. He can play in a 2 but that's completely dependent on the system around the midfield. He's still playing the same pure ball winning role even in a 2. He doesn't have the complete set of skills to play at the base by himself.
I thought he was all about pride and passion, rather than money?
If he really cared about the club he would be signing the contract not chasing another £30/40k per week.
The most frustrating thing is losing him for nothing. He would fetch £15-20m but the clowns let him walk out the door for zero.
If he really cared about the club he would be signing the contract not chasing another £30/40k per week.
The most frustrating thing is losing him for nothing. He would fetch £15-20m but the clowns let him walk out the door for zero.
Pogba was obviously never gonna remain on the bench, that was just to send a message. Height was maybe part of the reason but obviously not the only reason. Matic was considered one of the best DM in Europe after Mourinhos winning seeaon with Matic and he was still pretty good when we bought him. It's safe to say that had sonething to do with why Herrera was benched.
Is it a coincidence how suddenly people don't rate him as highly when his commitment is in question? That was part of his appeal and it's a big reason why he was so overrated imo.
Why would he care about ‘the Badge’? He already left his boyhood team to come to us, for more money. He’ll do the same to get more, 99% of players would. £30k pw is a lot.
I’ll miss him if he goes. Seems like a character. But he’s by no means irreplaceable.
I’ll miss him if he goes. Seems like a character. But he’s by no means irreplaceable.
No it can't. It can be measured by watching the game, and anyone who watches it without the preconception that Herrera just runs around like a lunatic can see the intelligence in how he positions himself. He reads the game so, so well. It's why Jose played him at the back, asked him to mark Hazard out of the game, and why we've seen him play in some many positions in so many different roles. It's because he understands the game very well. We've seen his discipline when he's asked to play that way. Besides, he doesn't have the interceptions he does because of his role, I don't think you quite understand just how far ahead of most other ball winning midfielders he is with interceptions.
It's not subjective, you can literally see him every single game checking what's around him. It's not Lampard level, but it's good.
Sorry, no, it isn't. A box to box midfielder should never have to be doing the job of the defensive midfielder. At no point should a player have to run 70 yards to cover for a player sitting in front of the defense - that simply does not happen if the DM is doing his job. As I've said, Herrera presses intelligently. When a player ahead of you presses you step forward, you don't step back, which is Matic's first thought on every occasion. That leaves the massive gap in between we've been seeing so often of late. If Herrera was chasing his tail then that would be fine, but he isn't.
Pathetic that we are stuck with players like Sanchez, Martial and Fred on high wages and fees. But god forbid that we’ll pay an extra few bucks on great players like Herrera. Stupidity!!!
Not everyone watching the games sees and interpretes things the same. You are assuming that's what people see because you seem to have decided it's a fact and anyone who disagrees with you must have a preconcieved notion about him. In fact you have no idea what they see, because you are not them. I didn't say the only reason he has a lot of interceptions is because he just runs around. I just meant that his style enables him to that more. I can say that anyone who doesn't see the glaring gaps he leaves to be exploited must be blind, but I don't because I know some might view it differently. It's not an exact science, and yes it is highly subjective. Just look at all the contradicting opinions among fans everywhere. Is checking what's around him a sign he has good positional awarness? You would think any player does that.
I don't see much football iq in what he does. All I see is a specialised role he can be useful in with massive flaws in his game to ever be anything more than a squad player. That's just my opinion, and it seems to be shared by the majority on here, that he is a squad player and is replacable
To answer some of your points. Marking someone out of the game is probably the worst evidence you can give of needing positional awareness. You just follow wherever the player goes. Last time I recall him playing CB is when he played an attacker on side and we conceded directly from it.
I said that on occasion he needs to help out in defence, not that he should do Matic's job. If he can't do that than what is he useful for other than pressing? You're talking as if Matic doesn't do any defensive work and Herrera does it for him. Obviously that's a huge exaggeration. Regarding pressing, if that's happening, it's on the manager for not giving clear instructions. You either press as a team or stay in position. Other than the first couple of games, I haven't seen any indication of Ole wanting to press. We have mostly reverted to staying of and that's where you can see Herreras and Pogbas lack of positioning. That leads to Matic having to fall back to protect the defence.
That’s a fairly pointless opening paragraph there, of course I think I’m right; everyone expressing an opinion here believe they are right.
You could say that, but to me that shows a misunderstanding of how a team should press. You check the players behind you, you position yourself to cut off the passing avenues and then you push at an angle to maintain that. You then have a reliance on the players behind you to step up into those areas, compress the space, and force the opposition to go long or back. As soon as you have a player like Matic neglect his role in that press, whether through negligence or through a physical inability, then you let down the player ahead of you. I suggest you actually watch what happens before the press and not just the space that is created afterwards. We saw the positives of having a team compressing the space in midfield and press effectively when Ole first took over. Matic was actually stepping forwards and not backwards when opposition players got the ball in midfield. Yet again you’re reducing it to what a player does or doesn’t do. If I compared Tom Huddlestone to De Bruyne in terms of passing and creativity, you’d laugh. Both have good vision, but one of them is better on the ball than the other.
You’re swimming against the current then. Irrespective of whether you think he is good enough or not, Herrera’s intelligence is almost universally accepted as being pretty high. You’ve just reaffirmed to me you can’t see the difference between a player that presses, and one that presses well.
See! You don’t just follow a player around to mark them out of the game, particularly when that player is quicker with a lower centre of gravity.
I don’t know if I can be bothered with this anymore. I don’t usually call people out for not knowing what they’re talking about, but that second to last paragraph shows such a lack of understanding to this side of the game, that I struggle to see where we go from here. There’s believing he is or isn’t good enough, and then there is this.
I'm watching the games and using stats to support my argument because that is more sensible and conducive to discussion than just repeatedly insisting my subjective opinions on a player are right and everyone else is wrong. I see that you are doing neither as you dislike facts that show you are wrong and posting on redcafe while we are playing Wolves.
Pogba gets disposed a lot because he tries to dribble. Matic does not try and dribble, he is just slow and cumbersome on the ball and consequently invites pressure and gets tackled. Again you can see this in the stats with Pogba completing 1.7 dribbles per game and Matic 0.6. Herrera has a similarly low dribble rate to Matic but a better rate of being dispossessed because he takes less time to pick and play a pass to a teammate. Trying to pretend this is a negative is more nonsense, quick passing is a good thing and getting tackled in your half like Matic frequently does is very bad.
I am reading the POTY discussion and your posts in this thread. Other posters have already pointed out why you are wrong on multiple occasions (including the post directly above this one) so I don't feel the need to do it myself.
You don't seem to get the point do you? You are becoming increasingly adamant that Herrera is good at positioning, and you are right to your opinion. But that's all it is, your opinion. What I'm trying to explain with my first paragraph is that something like positioning isn't quantifiable and you can't prove it with stats. Which you have tried to do first with tackles, then interceptions and then the best one, with claiming he's looking over his shoulder. You seem to be dealing in absolutes and not even entertaining the fact that someone might see things differently.
I already told you that it doesn't seem that we want to press lately, so why would Matic step up if they're instructed not to? I really don't get the point of your pressing lecture or what point that is a counter to. Where am I talking about how well someone is pressing?
Low centre of gravity? What are you on about, seriously? You are trying your best to prove how Herrera's game is rocket science, when it's pretty simple most of the time, especially when marking a man. Can you please point me somewhere where it explains how positioning awareness is needed for marking?
Bottom line is, You are the one going against the current on the most important issue, whether I am doing that or not on his intelligence. You think he has a regular place on a big team while 90% on here don't. You think he can replace Matic's role, without any evidence that he can.
You serious? When something IS quantifiable you've palmed it off. So we are now at the point that you dismiss it if its quantifiable, and you dismiss it if it isn't.
You think we've been told not to press? Sure. You're continously devalued what it takes to press effectively, essentially relating it to running around a lot. You seem completely unaware that positional awareness is vital pressing properly, something Herrera apparently doesn't possess.
You don't know why a low sense of gravity is important to a dribbler? You think Hazard can just change direction so quickly because he’s wearing magic boots? No I’m trying to prove that you have no idea what you’re talking about. And seeing as you don’t get why having a low centre of gravity is a strength, and that marking a player like Hazard out of the game isn’t akin to just following him about, you’re making it pretty easy. Why is it important? It’s knowing what’s happening around you, when to step before the player, when to drop off, when cutting passing avenues off is more important than denying the player ball to feet, when there is space in behind and so you don’t become touch tight. I shouldn’t have to explain these things to you.
I’ve provided plenty of evidence, statistically and with observations. All you’ve done is rambled on stating he can’t do it, providing sod all to validate your point. Just take a look at your last post, there isn’t a single point you make that you’ve attempted to back up, it’s a mass of telling me I’m wrong, that’s it. Unless you actually fancy qualifying the things you say, don’t bother responding.
I don't see what'a the point of arguing when you completely disregard what is actually happening in games and solely rely on stats. If someone is always passing sideways and has 100% pass completion, does that make them good passers?
I'm comparing Matic to Pogba here. Pogba loses it a lot more than Matic because he tries to shield the ball and dribble, while Matic mostly tries to shield it in order to wait for players to get up the field, like any strong player with those qualities would. That's a huge reason why Herrera can't play as a holding mid. Herrera passing the way he does is not a negative most of the time, but he can't hold the ball under pressure. When you play as a holding mid, you can't just pass to the nearest player as soon as you're under pressure.
Clearly you haven't because you keep mentioning the poty as something significant in his favour. If he was poty, he wouldn't be out of the team as soon as a player like Matic arived.
Wonder who still thinks he’s better than Kante?
This season? Who doesnt?
Herrera isn't better than Kante. Kante is more pacy and energetic than Herrera. Kante can run all game without getting tired whereas Herrera would be gassing at 60mins in the game.
The real issue was to not sort this out one way or another earlier. I think the board is correct in not giving in to the wage demands of 200k a week, but that conversation should be held a year ago. This way it's not possible to sell him.
I didn’t. You misread and/or twisted my post and then spouted some nonsense about how this isn’t Fifa.
Not sure why I even bothered to respond.
Have a nice day.
Plus Herrara can barely afford his own car. He is always trying to get a ride off his mates.
Hopefully, he will make enough to be able to finally afford his own car where ever he goes.
Im only disagreeing with this part of your post. Why would United sign Keane from a relegated forest side?
Fulham have just been relegated, why would anyone sign sessegnon from them?
Sometimes a player is better than the circumstances that they’ve found themselves in
Maybe he can’t drive?Plus Herrara can barely afford his own car. He is always trying to get a ride off his mates.
Hopefully, he will make enough to be able to finally afford his own car where ever he goes.
Good player, should stay, but if he wants to go I won't deny him.
Our squad needs a refresh anyway.
Our squad needs a refresh anyway.
Poor bloke can’t afford driving lessons.
Disgraceful if true
I really like Herrera, and I hope he stays, but my biggest issue with him leaving isn't necessarily his quality; it's the fact that we'd need to bring in two midfielders, rather than the one needed currently.
We have so many weaknesses in the squad that we can't afford to sell one of the few positives really.
We have so many weaknesses in the squad that we can't afford to sell one of the few positives really.
It’s part of our no-deal brexit planning. Herrera and DeGea will not get new deals as xenophobic post-brexit UK will force teams to adopt a get rid of your Jonny foreigners rule in an attempt to go back to the decades that Brexiteers remember their mummy from. This is why shitty English players Jones and Young received bumper extensions
Your observations are not evidence. It's the way you see things and create an opinion based of off it. I'm not dismissing what is not quantifiable. It's just a matter of differing opinions. I just see it differently. Again, your evidence of tackling and interceptions doesn't show that. That's not evidence and I'm not gonna explain again why. You seem to be frustrated with me giving challenging your statements as absolute facts, so just agree to disagree if you in fact don't agree.
I am past trying to explain my points to you. Because I already have. At this point, I keep trying to point out what I think is wrong with your observations. Because you keep adding to it, as it seems you're reaching further and further to justify your rating of the player and reinforce your opinion. The difference between you and me, is that I'm not stating my opinion as fact and I understand that you don't see things the same way. While you seem to believe yours is absolute fact.
Of course positioning is important for any football player but you're just making it out to be rocket science in Herreras case, without any evidence. Your points on marking are obvious common knowledge. Yet again, you are making it seem much more conplicated than it is. Any decent defender can mark an attacker, it doesn't require great positioning.
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Freee Andera Herreraaa!!! Free, freee, freee, Andera Herreraaa.
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