Angel Gomes - Will he stay or will he go? | Contract Expires 30th June

duffer

Sensible and not a complete jerk like most oppo's
Scout
Joined
Jun 24, 2004
Messages
36,217
Location
Chelsea fan.
About 10, possibly 12, of the games he started at U23 level.

He is clearly a talented player but I suspect his impact on games is overly reliant on things like him taking penalties etc. I think the moments when he does something that no-one else could manage, are few and far between.
That's more than I've seen of him for sure. I've mostly seen him for England's under age sides, where he has been very good.

There just seems to be a lot of playing this kids talent down ever since it appears he may not accept whatever contract he's been offered.
 

flappyjay

Full Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2016
Messages
2,887
The difference was that Chong kept getting minutes over Gomes despite being shit and Gomes was played out of position unlike Chong.

How's that supposed to convince Gomes that the club actually has a plan for him? One person gets minutes for feckall while the other doesn't.
Most 10s start their careers outwide until they have gained enough to play behind the striker. Playing outwide is not playing out of position at this stage in his development. He needs to knuckle down work hard and he will get his dues.
 

LVGSdive

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Aug 20, 2019
Messages
279
Yes I have I watched him play for the U18 and U23's and I will just say this at times he looked like a experienced Barca player running the show in the middle of the park. His biggest problem is his size but he will bulk up and his skill and vision will show. But I agree he hasn't taken the chances given to him under Ole. But Lingard come on now behave.
What chances hasn't he taken? In pre season he was one of our best players then he got phased out once the season started. Then he has hardly played all season for the first team.
 

LVGSdive

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Aug 20, 2019
Messages
279
Most 10s start their careers outwide until they have gained enough to play behind the striker. Playing outwide is not playing out of position at this stage in his development. He needs to knuckle down work hard and he will get his dues.
Who are all of these number 10's that have played out wide?

Besides some of Gomes' best games for the academy have come deeper than that where he could run the game. Juventus away in the u19's youth cup he was a #6. Newcastle away in the u23's he was a #8. Those were his best 2 performances that I saw from Gomes.
 

cyberman

Full Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
17,788
Who are all of these number 10's that have played out wide?

Besides some of Gomes' best games for the academy have come deeper than that where he could run the game. Juventus away in the u19's youth cup he was a #6. Newcastle away in the u23's he was a #8. Those were his best 2 performances that I saw from Gomes.
Pogba played wide as he came through
 

flappyjay

Full Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2016
Messages
2,887
Who are all of these number 10's that have played out wide?

Besides some of Gomes' best games for the academy have come deeper than that where he could run the game. Juventus away in the u19's youth cup he was a #6. Newcastle away in the u23's he was a #8. Those were his best 2 performances that I saw from Gomes.
Kevin De bruyne, David silva, Juan Mata, Oscar, modric when he first got to the epl, Bernardo Silva...cant think of others but many
 

MadDogg

Full Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
10,374
Location
Manchester Utd never lose, just run out of time
It's not something that he particularly said it is that the whole drama that is created around this new contract of his which he is stalling for months now like he's doing something great every time he steps on the pitch which he doesn't and like we'll be missing a top top player even if nobody is sure he'll ever be.That's annoying me.He needs to prove himself in matches first then start asking for more playing time , more money and so on.He needs to man up and focus on his game than the contract parameters.Like Chong did.
So you're annoyed at him because he's constantly complaining. Except he hasn't been complaining, and instead you are annoyed at him because other people are complaining that he isn't playing much? Ultimately it looks like he's doing what plenty of young players do every season - move to another club where they'll get to play and take the next step in their development. He hasn't publicly done anything other than say good things about Utd.

Comparing him to Chong is strange. Chong was much more public with his contract dispute, with his agent actively talking about him leaving and meeting Inter.
 

RedRonaldo

Full Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Messages
10,780
What I like about Gomes so far:
- seems talented, with good potential
- very good at ball control at tight space
- some beautiful goals and skills at youth level and pre seasons
- young talented player from Manchester

what I don’t like:
- got drifted out of the game far too often
- too small In size and physically weak, couldn’t quite handle the tough physical side of the man’s games
- seems always injured?
- seems not interested to commit his long term future here
 
Last edited:

duffer

Sensible and not a complete jerk like most oppo's
Scout
Joined
Jun 24, 2004
Messages
36,217
Location
Chelsea fan.
What I like about Gomes so far:
- seems talented, with good potential
- very good at ball control at tight space
- some beautiful goals and skills at youth level and pre seasons
- young talented player from Manchester

what I don’t like:
- got drifted out of the game far too often
- too small In size and physically weak, couldn’t quite handle the tough physical side of the man’s games
- seems always injured?
- seems not interested to commit his long term future here

He's from London.
 

POF

Full Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2014
Messages
3,129
Its like people learned absolutely nothing from what happened with Pogba.

He was 19, Rafael and Ji Sung Park were playing in CM and Scholes came out of retirement to get some games. You would have said then that if Pogba was exceptional he would have got more opportunities - he played just 67 minutes across 3 sub appearances in the league in 12/13. Then he went to Juventus and started 18 games with 9 sub appearances and playing 1732 minutes for them and being considered one of the best young players in the world.

Fast forward and we're signing Pogba back for almost £94 million.

Is Gomes exactly the same as Pogba? No. But are people making the same arguments as when Pogba was let go for free? Yes. Those that refuse to learn are doomed to repeat the same mistakes over and over again.

He has had a very good game, he deserves more gametime to see if he can do that more often
To be honest, based on what's happened since, signing Pogba back for £90m seems a bigger mistake than him leaving in the first place.

There is one major difference between the 2. Pogba was physically ready for senior football when he left. Gomes is not.
 

LVGSdive

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Aug 20, 2019
Messages
279
Kevin De bruyne, David silva, Juan Mata, Oscar, modric when he first got to the epl, Bernardo Silva...cant think of others but many
Modric isn't a number 10. So many yet you can't think of them. Right.
 

Ekeke

Full Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2006
Messages
45,847
Location
Hope, We Lose
To be honest, based on what's happened since, signing Pogba back for £90m seems a bigger mistake than him leaving in the first place.

There is one major difference between the 2. Pogba was physically ready for senior football when he left. Gomes is not.
Sir Alex seemed to disagree having played Park and Rafael instead of him in CM
 

Brightonian

Full Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
12,803
Location
Juanderlust
It's not something that he particularly said it is that the whole drama that is created around this new contract of his which he is stalling for months now like he's doing something great every time he steps on the pitch which he doesn't and like we'll be missing a top top player even if nobody is sure he'll ever be.That's annoying me.He needs to prove himself in matches first then start asking for more playing time , more money and so on.He needs to man up and focus on his game than the contract parameters.Like Chong did.
Ah I see so you were making up his 'complaints'. Understood.

Everything else here is coming from you, not him or his camp. It is entirely within his rights as a human being to choose to sign a new contract, to choose not to sign one, or to negotiate over the terms. He has not said anything publicly about the situation other that respectful answers to questions in which he says that he would like to remain and the club and has dreams of winning trophies with us. So whatever you think it 'means' is just projection.
 

RooneyLegend

Full Member
Joined
May 3, 2013
Messages
9,731
We really need to get him signed asap. Fernandes would be a great mentor to him. It would be like when we had Ronaldo and Nani here.
 

MartinRed

New Member
Newbie
Joined
May 30, 2016
Messages
80
Ah I see so you were making up his 'complaints'. Understood.

Everything else here is coming from you, not him or his camp. It is entirely within his rights as a human being to choose to sign a new contract, to choose not to sign one, or to negotiate over the terms. He has not said anything publicly about the situation other that respectful answers to questions in which he says that he would like to remain and the club and has dreams of winning trophies with us. So whatever you think it 'means' is just projection.
Maybe it's just a projection but it seems to my that he is disrespecting the club and I am sick and tired of this disrespect from years now from everywhere press , mediocre players , other clubs managers who used to be silent and dirtying their pants from behind when they saw the mighty ManUtd coming at them.Suddenly started to grow balls and trashing us in every occasion.And when the disrespecting come from inside the club from a player who is raised by the club a player who is still not even proved himself I get annoyed.But that's just me.
 

MadDogg

Full Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
10,374
Location
Manchester Utd never lose, just run out of time
Maybe it's just a projection but it seems to my that he is disrespecting the club and I am sick and tired of this disrespect from years now from everywhere press , mediocre players , other clubs managers who used to be silent and dirtying their pants from behind when they saw the mighty ManUtd coming at them.Suddenly started to grow balls and trashing us in every occasion.And when the disrespecting come from inside the club from a player who is raised by the club a player who is still not even proved himself I get annoyed.But that's just me.
You are absolutely projecting. Footballers are no different than anybody else - their priority is (rightfully) to do what is best for them. Why should he sign a contract with us if he feels that it's better for his career to go elsewhere?

Did Sancho disrespect Man City when he left them to get more gametime? Did De Bruyne disrespect Chelsea when he left them to get more gametime? Did Joshua King disrespect us when he left to get more gametime? Did Pique and Fabregas disrespect Barcelona when they left? Etc etc. It happens to every club all over the world, as young players move elsewhere that they think will ultimately be better for their career. Sometimes they are players that the club really wants to keep. Sometimes they aren't.

I'm going to do my own projecting here. Gomes is probably agonising over this. He's a Man Utd fan who has been here most of his life and who dreams of succeeding with us, but there are question marks over whether he is going to make it. He's 19 years old now (will be almost 20 when the next season starts), has watched most of his contemporaries at both Utd and England taking the step up to first team football while he has remained in the reserves. He's worried that if he 'wastes' another year or two in the reserves he'll ultimately damage his career as these years are hugely important in development. He's torn between his heart and his head and hasn't been able to make a decision about what to do yet. Sleepless nights; asking advice from people he respects; the whole shebang.

Is my projection accurate? Who knows. I reckon it's closer to the truth than yours though.
 

Devil81

Full Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2014
Messages
4,730
He'd have signed by now if he was planning on staying, such a shame as well as I can see him developing into a proper quality player.
 

Grande

Full Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2007
Messages
2,694
Location
The Land of Do-What-You-Will
Maybe it's just a projection but it seems to my that he is disrespecting the club and I am sick and tired of this disrespect from years now from everywhere press , mediocre players , other clubs managers who used to be silent and dirtying their pants from behind when they saw the mighty ManUtd coming at them.Suddenly started to grow balls and trashing us in every occasion.And when the disrespecting come from inside the club from a player who is raised by the club a player who is still not even proved himself I get annoyed.But that's just me.
You’re actually right, you feel offended, annoyef and belittled on behalf of a football club by players, managers and journalists doing what they always must do to earn a living. It’s actually a double projection.

Mind you, I feel like that myself oftentimes, but I do try to remind myself that as an ordinary football fan, I’m effectively as mad as it gets, and people probably shouldn’t listen to me.
 

arthurka

Full Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2010
Messages
11,985
Location
Rectum
He'd have signed by now if he was planning on staying, such a shame as well as I can see him developing into a proper quality player.
You know that Chong singed very very late on.. Just saying, who knows.
 

Brightonian

Full Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
12,803
Location
Juanderlust
Maybe it's just a projection but it seems to my that he is disrespecting the club and I am sick and tired of this disrespect from years now from everywhere press , mediocre players , other clubs managers who used to be silent and dirtying their pants from behind when they saw the mighty ManUtd coming at them.Suddenly started to grow balls and trashing us in every occasion.And when the disrespecting come from inside the club from a player who is raised by the club a player who is still not even proved himself I get annoyed.But that's just me.
Yep I'm pretty sure it's projection mate ;)

As I said in my last post, he hasn't done anything disrespectful at all. In fact he's been a model professional. You are loading your dissatisfaction with the status of the club onto Gomes but he's done nothing to deserve it.
 

giggslover

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Dec 1, 2016
Messages
19
I think its down to the height and to Ole taking a firm stance on the club's process of doing things. Many reports state that they wanted him to follow the same process as Greenwood and specifically Toth, where you sign for a starting fee, take your chances when u can, and depending on production, you may get offered more in terms of money and team stature.

No doubt the talent is there. I think it comes down to how comfortable the team feels he will develop physically in order to handle the rigors of the premiership. Could you imagine if we lost him to Chelsea, his physique starts to match his technical ability, and he goes on to have a great career? Biggest fear of a coach is to have let a great one get away and them come back to haunt you.
 

duffer

Sensible and not a complete jerk like most oppo's
Scout
Joined
Jun 24, 2004
Messages
36,217
Location
Chelsea fan.
I've decided I agree with all of you lot, I don't want this guy, 5'2" is just too short and his complaining will be an issue.
 

Nou_Camp99

Full Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2013
Messages
2,780
Theres a guy on twitter who people are saying is reliable saying Angel Gomes has agreed a new contract with us. Hmmmmm.....
 

Patchbeard

Full Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2013
Messages
2,079
Who are all of these number 10's that have played out wide?

Besides some of Gomes' best games for the academy have come deeper than that where he could run the game. Juventus away in the u19's youth cup he was a #6. Newcastle away in the u23's he was a #8. Those were his best 2 performances that I saw from Gomes.
Most young creative players tend to get shunted out wide for game time at the start of their careers as it's a less pivotal role. The guy above already mentioned the likes of Mata, KDB, D.Silva, B.Silva (still plays out wide a lot). Others would be Isco, Iniesta, Gotze, Coutinho, James Rodriguez, or Hamsik, Schweinsteiger, Julian Brandt who started out wide and turned into no.8s.
 

Nou_Camp99

Full Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2013
Messages
2,780
Could you specify those sources a bit more?
Type angel Gomes contract in on twitter. It's come from a ITK account but people are saying he's been right before on things and has links to our academy. We do have a terrible record of keeping things in house.
 

NoPace

Full Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2014
Messages
5,816
We have so little cover for Bruno, I don’t understand why we wouldn’t move Lingard and Pereira on and give Gomes the job backing up Bruno with Pogba (or his replacement) around if he’s not up to it. How much worse can he be and like I said there would be alternative cover or we would go 442 or 5 at the back or eventually sign a replacement for the role if it was a disaster. If he’s 90 percent as good as Mount who is 80 percent as good Maddison and Foden that’s not the end of the world, and is probably still better than Lingard or Pereira did in the role.
 

Utdstar01

Full Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2012
Messages
4,966
We have so little cover for Bruno, I don’t understand why we wouldn’t move Lingard and Pereira on and give Gomes the job backing up Bruno with Pogba (or his replacement) around if he’s not up to it. How much worse can he be and like I said there would be alternative cover or we would go 442 or 5 at the back or eventually sign a replacement for the role if it was a disaster. If he’s 90 percent as good as Mount who is 80 percent as good Maddison and Foden that’s not the end of the world, and is probably still better than Lingard or Pereira did in the role.
I think the days of Pereira and Lingard could be numbered. Depending how Jesse performs in the last few games could decide his future.
 

Bondi77

Full Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2019
Messages
676
I think the days of Pereira and Lingard could be numbered. Depending how Jesse performs in the last few games could decide his future.
Pereira just signed a new contract at the start of the season under the watchful eye of Ole so I will be surprised if he goes anywhere.
 

EngimaMK

New Member
Newbie
Joined
May 23, 2018
Messages
134
I think one of pereira or Lingard needs to be kept for numbers and to fill in should we have devastating injuries.

Personally, I'd keep hold of pereira and move on Lingard.
 

Random Task

Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018
Joined
Feb 7, 2010
Messages
20,212
Location
Chester
According to the United Stand, and Marc Goldbridge, Gomes signed a new contract yesterday, with Lingard wanting to leave.

Can't speak of the reliability of the source, though.
 

gerdm07

Full Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2011
Messages
1,406
I think the days of Pereira and Lingard could be numbered. Depending how Jesse performs in the last few games could decide his future.
I think Ole is done with Lingard and I don't see him getting much time to prove himself.
 

lumeyes

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Aug 6, 2019
Messages
105
[/QUOTE]
I think it's safe to assume Gomes would have got more game time if he merited it this season. Ole clearly likes to blood youngsters. We all want Gomes to succeed here but the facts on the ground would suggest he hasn't been as good as we like to think. Perhaps this is one of those where he needs to go prove himself elsewhere, anywhere. If he tears the place up we can always buy him back. Won't be the first time...
There is simply no basis to claim he hasn't merited being played, not with Lingard continually being selected by Ole.

This is all you need to see. When a 19yr old English player with 5 premier league 1st team appearances has Pini Zahavi as an agent, you just know the whole thing is fecked up. Concentrate on learning football and the rewards will come. I think he has great potential - his size is currently limiting him but in 2-3 years he could have filled out a bit more or just become a bit stronger.

Sign contract
Get head down and be a sponge with senior players in training
Do a good job and we have shown we will always give youth a chance

Pini Zahavi! Mind blown!
Sign a contract and watch Lingard, and to an extent Andreas, play negative football without being given a chance. Not even being afforded a place on the bench. The only proper chance he got to start a match was against Astana at Old Trafford and for 60 minutes he was about the best player on the pitch. In fact he was limited that by the the players around him, including older ones like Rashford and midfield players. Chong to his left was more or less a disaster and Greenwood to his right was struggled. Yet after that game in which someone like the legendary Peter Schmeichel singled him out for praise he was thrown out of a proper midfield position to the wings in the next few appearances while Chong continued to get game time in his favoured positions. So why should he just sign without being sure of what Ole planned to do with him? Expectations were high he would be sent out on loan in January, and he even pushed for it, but the club (allegedly) stopped it.

He's failed to impose himself in every game i saw him play for the under 23's. His short stature shouldn't get in the way because he should still be able to move and get away from the bigger guys in the opposition. He just never seems to assert himself in a game. In contrast Chong always showed lots of tenacity even when playing in a poor side. I know Chong has done little for the first team yet but if it has come down to mindset then I think we will be letting him go.
Maybe it's cofirmation bias at work or you just saw parts of the games in which he was bad. You shouldn't count any game he played from the wings, that wouldn't be fair.
His peformance against Rotherham FC in the EPL cup was the best anyone managed in the club this season in a 10 or any midfield position. Either in the senior or junior team. His performance against Leeds in the preason was good and showed a composure that is needed for a player maker. And he didn't look physically out of place. In those games he played in a proper position, as was the case vs Astana.

Who are all of these number 10's that have played out wide?

Besides some of Gomes' best games for the academy have come deeper than that where he could run the game. Juventus away in the u19's youth cup he was a #6. Newcastle away in the u23's he was a #8. Those were his best 2 performances that I saw from Gomes.
And it should be noted that the Juve boys were big, and that small Gomes didn't look troubled by them. That at some points they backed away from him after realising he could walk around them or resist their physical pressure.