Annah/Swe 48-58 VS Enigma - NT peak draft

Who would win based on their performance in the chosen tournament?


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Annahnomoss

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Who would win based on their performance in the chosen tournament?


-------------------Sweden 1948-58



Formation: 3-2-2-3 / WM
Style: Direct, Flood-the-box

  • Nacka has the ball and looks for an early cross - Liedholm and Gren bombards in to the box for the cross. Hamrin makes a run to the second post.
  • Hamrin has the ball and looks to beat his marker - Liedholm and Gren bombards in to the box for the cross or cut back pass. Skoglund makes a run in to the box from his flank.
  • Liedholm/Gren leads the counter through their silky mix of dribbling and playmaking. Skoglund and Hamrin both makes runs towards goal from their wings while Nordahl finds space in the box.
Manager: George Raynor
Ass. Manager: Putte Kock

Achievements: Olympic Gold '48, World Cup Bronze '50, Olympic Bronze '52, World Cup Silver '58

Defense


Jürgen Kohler - 1990
Erik Nilsson was a LCB known for his wrestling strength, aggressive tackles and aerial ability and the greatest ever for that job is Kohler. Capable of reading the game and intercepting/tackle aggressively to win the ball back before it has reached a man.

But also utterly dominant in the air and capable of keeping the likes of van Basten and Rijkaard honest in that regard. As a stopper he stands out above the rest for his ability to cover out wide with his world class 1-on-1 game.

Djalma Santos - 1962
The greatest defensive full back of all time. In 1954 Brazil played as the RCB in a back three in the WM formation and Djalma Santos proved his worth and made the team of the tournament. We're using the 1962 incarnation after a flawless tournament from Djalma with not a single goal being created from his right flank.

He made a career out of shutting down his flank defensively and Hamrin with his electric acceleration, pace and dribbling is ideal to make sure it hurts the opponent any time they lose the ball.

On the ball he is a good outlet for finding players further forward quickly and accurately.


Bengt Gustavsson - 1958 - "The best stopper of the tournament" - Dr.Becker
By the end of the year, Dr. Becker had prepared his book on the 1958 World Cup called “Fussballweltmeisterschaft 1958” and taken from that book is the following excerpt which again tackles the best players of the tournament, based on his own opinion and that of various journalists he met in Sweden.

The best centre half of the tournament was according “Fussballweltmeisterschaft 1958” none other than Bengt Gustavsson.

As no surprise to John Charles who desribed him as the best centre-back he ever played, in the Ballon d'Or the same year he was nomineed and had as many votes as Yashin, Suarez and settled himself as one of the very finest centre backs of the season.

In the August edition of France Football 1984 they made a list of the best 10 players of the century in each position and Bengt Gustavsson is rated as number 5.
Note: I do not think he's top 5 or close to that. But fair to say he's a bloody great stopper.
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Standing 182 cm tall and weighing in at 81 kg, he epitomized the style of the Swedish defense under Raynor. Dominant in the air, strong as an ox, yet quick and aggressive. "By pushing John Charles into a defensive role Murphy denied the public of the fascinating duel between Swedish centre-half, Bengt Gustavsson, who played for Serie A club Atalanta. The pair had some titanic battles in Italian football and after the game Charles were sorry for the people who paid to see it."


Valery Voronin
Replacing Sune Anderssons more offensive role as a left half we have Valery Voronin. With Desailly for Milan, Voronin stood for the best defensive midfield performances I've ever seen. There aren't many defensive midfielder or defenders who can dominate games and single handedly win games. Voronin is one of them and his impact couldn't be higher than marking out both Eusebio and Florian Albert while still being fantastic on the ball.

He had a great all around ability on the ball with a classy passing range and remained in a covering defensive midfield role most often even when his team was attacking. He is ideal for the role as he can replicate all phases of the Swedes defense, even the hard part of having to act inside his own box as the team falls down in to the area.
Great all-round display against Germany
Man-marking Eusebio out of the game



Nullifying Florian Albert


Great defensive display against Italy
Frank Rijkaard
He played as a roaming centre back in '88 who would be found in the defensive line, defensive midfield and at times he'd even extend further with a run forward. Here he replaces Birger Rosengren in the nearly all-out defensive role next to Voronin. He'd operate in the similar area as in 1988 of falling in and out of the box. Like in 1988 his runs forward would be highly limited to a few good occasions.

Together with Voronin they take the aerial dominance inside the own box to a whole new level. They also mean a safety net in case an opponent tries to break through behind the defense as they can snuff out the danger as they fall down.

"One thing was clear about Rijkaard. He was an extremely active stopper who well covered the zone a destroyer would cover."- Onenil

"This era of England (88-90) was arguably the best English selections since ‘66. They had a hard defense and a host of players who could hurt any defense. To me this match was run by Gullit and Rijkaard. Conducting a master class in the stopper role I felt Rijkaard was dominant in defense breaking up England’s tempo frequently. Gullit was all over the pitch, running at the defense, helping out in the midfield battle and continually offering a dangerous presence. This lead to the van Basten show this match. In his prime and displaying his full range of skills, van Basten was everything you could imagine from a striker.. From incredible close control in the box to clinical finish to intelligent and dangerous movement all match against the centre backs van Basten showed why he many call him the best classic no.9." - Onenil
Tactics
This is a blend of the miraculous 1948 winners who scored 22 goals in 4 games and conceded just 3. The central core of Berggren, Andersson and Grenoli destroyed anything that stood in their path - expectedly, as they were three of the very best players in football at the time. With Berggren and Andersson replaced by two ideal all time greats in Rijkaard and Voronin.

Liedholm described it "The ball didn't touch the ground a single time. Gren played it to me, me straight to Nordahl who played it to Gren, who found me and then I found Nordahl who scored on the volley. That's how we played."

With massive improvements from the 1958 side where team of the tournament defenders Bergmark and Bengtsson steps in at the back. The only weakness of the '48 side were the wingers, and here we have replaced them with Hamrin and Skoglund who together scored 5 goals and assisted 6.

Two of the greater wingers of all time who both had legendary performances in 1958, with Skoglund being part of the team of the tournament and Hamrin challenging as one of the very best players of the tournament.

Defense

As the team lost the ball a sort of chaotic/individual press was established to force a longer pass. As the opponents made the pass it was up to the defenders to push forward aggressively and win the ball back or at least force a weak first touch to win the second ball back. Simple to say but hard to execute and Raynor must have done a great job to make it work so well with so many different players featuring over his years.

The rest of the team would help out in winning the second ball and if the opponents established an attack the midfield square would become almost flat, but centralized, at the edge of the box.

Against Soviet in '58 they did this to perfection as wave after wave of Soviet attacks were shut down in that simple way. The physical defenders managed to mix it with an excellent reading of the game to know the exact moment when to push forward.

With Rijkaard and Voronin now in the side the defense would be a labyrinth to get through with three perfectly synched defenders pushing up and Rijkaard and Voronin falling back to pick up runners the few occasions that the defenders doesn't win the ball back instantly.


Offense
Offensively the '48 team was led by Liedholm and Gren who in their peak stormed back and forth like an offensive box to box. Almost every single attack ended with both Gren and Liedholm inside the box next to Nordahl and the pace of the attacks were direct and electric. Hamrin and Skoglund are the ideal wingers to have next to them. Neither was a ball hogger and instead they were used to making off the ball runs to stay in the play when they didn't have the ball.

Skoglund was an entertaining flair player, but he combined that dribbling and pace with a love for inch perfect crosses and passes. Not only will "The Bison" Nordahl absolutely thrive on that, but so will Hamrin who was world class at finding space in the box as well and score goals.

With Liedholm and Gren entering the box as well, you realize why Grenoli scored ridiculous amounts. Liedholm and Gren weren't your typical central playmakers, they had a directness and dribbling of absolute world class. They received the ball and instantly challenged the defenders or midfielders just to breeze past them to force the defender to step up, with Nordahl making a run in to the space, and then either they found Nordahl or just beat another man for a goal.

Ruthlessly offensive with no regards to the scoreline and they wouldn't stop or go easy on you because they were 3-0 up. Which Serie A winners of 1949, Juventus, got to experience in a 6-0 demolision by the Grenoli trio. Milan scored 118 goals that season, 71 of those came at the hands of the Swedes alone, more than fourth placed Lazio did as a team. The two midfielders scored 18 each, together they averaged a goal every game and Nordahl did the same from upfront alone.

The fact that both Gren and Liedholm could play further back and their work rate meant they still just conceded 2 more than Juventus, the best defensive side that year.

But this came with a price like against Inter where they lost a 5-4 game after a big lead as their ruthless offensive could cost them as well.

Nordahl was his usual self as he was the top scorer of the '48 tournament and scored almost two goals per game in average. While Liedholm and Gren were the flawless dribbling playmakers who together scored a goal per game in average through the tournament. And the trio with dominance took Sweden through some of the top teams of the era like Austria 0-3 Sweden, Yugoslavia 1-3 and third place finisher Denmark (2-4) who beat Italy and Great Britain.

This team has everything, two world class playmakers in Gren and Liedholm, both excelling at penetrative shorter passes. While Liedholm and Voronin had a fantastic passing range and could switch the side or find the Bison on the run with ease over the defensive line.

Rijkaard will be the almost exclusively defensive destroyer/stopper of the team and the team captain just like he was in '88. While the defensive trio will remain purely defensive in supportive positions.

This game would go back and forth all night and that is exactly the style that this team excelled at playing.
Player profiles


Gunnar ''Il Bisonte" Nordahl
Position:
Striker
Height: 1.80m (5’11”)
Weight: 92 kg (209 lbs.)
NT Achievements:
Olympic gold & top scorer: 1948



Style of play

Top scorer with 7 goals in 4 matches and a dominant force of the 1948 Olympics side. Record holder as the top scorer in Serie A after being the top scorer 5 times in just 6 seasons, which should be impossible as he went to Milan aged 27.

Technically limited but he epitomized the role of a poacher with some of the best natural goalscoring instincts football has ever seen. Accustomed of working against a packed defense, heavily outnumbered, yet he always read the balls trajectory and managed to be at the end of it whether it took a bounce on a defender or his teammate along the way.

He combined that predatory instinct with being able to finish with his first touch with both feet with equal ease. Half chances wasn't part of his vocabulary as he was a true master of scoring ugly goals. He struck half volleys, tap ins, volleys and off balance shots with pin point precision and if a ball wasn't perfectly cleared he had a knack for getting a toe on it and turning it to a goal.

What he lacked technically he made up for with an electric acceleration and good pace which he used to constantly beat the defenders and break free towards goal. Rarely dropping deep or standing still and instead almost solely focused on being a nuisance centrally.


Weighing in at 92 kg, his physical game earned him the nickname "Il Bisonte". Once in a game against Napoli the defender grabbed his jersey, but Nordahl dragged him along for nearly two dozen feet and scored a goal.


Lennart ''Nacka" Skoglund
Position:
Left winger(Secondary position: Inside left)
Height: 1.70m
Weight: 68 kg
NT Achievements:
World Cup 1958 XI: Best left winger of the tournament


Style of play

He was beyond a world class dribbler, he was an artist, who entertained the entire audience with his tricks and plays. His crossing was pin point accurate and he was the heart of so many of the plays for Inter and Sweden. Many times outshining Hamrin in terms of pure skill and in the 1958 World Cup he was included in the all star XI as the tournaments best left winger. He was extremely explosive and could accelerate past most players and had great pace as well.

Superbly talented, he was described as a "soloist", a player who played to the gallery and had an array of tricks allied to a fierce shot. He did little to help out his team-mates on the field, but he was no mere show pony and helped Inter to two league titles during a playing career that catapulted him to international stardom.

Even the Brazilians were in awe of his dribbling and Ronnie Hellström said "He did stuff that nobody else could. I used to stand in goal while he'd take shots and ball after ball went in. And his passes, he'd set the teammates free on goal over and over through out the match."

He was a complete classic winger who would consistently beat his full back through out the game and set up his team mates as well as known for his great off the ball runs when cutting inside to score or find space behind the defensive line.


Kurt ''Il Uccellino" Hamrin
Position: Right Winger
Height: 1.69m
Weight: 69 kg
NT Achievements:
World Cup Runner up - 1958
One of the best players - 1958


1958:
Mexico vs Sweden 3-0 - Gets pulled down in the penalty area which leads to a penalty that Liedholm converts.
Sweden vs Hungary 2-1 - Hamrin scores both goals.
Sweden vs Wales 0-0
Sweden vs Soviet 2-0 - Hamrin scores first goal and has a great game in general.
Sweden vs West Germany 3-1 - Hamrin gets Juskowiak sent off, Hamrin assists the 2-1 goal and finishes the game with his 3-1 goal.
Sweden vs Brazil 4-2 - Kept rather quiet by Nilton Santos.

Style of play

Despite being a winger, Hamrin nearly always challenged for the title of Serie A capocannoniere. Ability wise had everything you could ask for from a winger, and on top of that he was a blessed with flair and individual brilliance that would decide the game in a moment.

It is said that his acceleration is among the best in Serie A history and his pace was great to boot. Combined with being one of the best two footed dribblers in history he had something else when it came to pure ability.

"His technical ability was always on show, illustrating his agile movement and speed on the wing before dribbling inside to unleash an inch-perfect shot in to the top corner."

He was known to receive a ball at his feet and slowly, and nonchalantly, walk towards his marker - just to burst past them with ease after a dribble and some acceleration.

He had great creativity, good passing and crossing as well but what stood out above the rest was his goalscoring. He was constantly challenging for the top scorer award, as a winger, more often than not outscoring John Charles.

He had a great shot on him and a lot of his goals came were long rangers from outside of the box. He was a player who didn't mind if the other winger got a lot of the ball as well and he was almost a modern winger who would then make his way towards goal.

Both him and Skoglund were great ball carrying wingers and they had a terrific and complementary wing partnership.

"However, on the eve of the 1958 Finals, this rule was relaxed by the Swedish FA - no doubt to improve Sweden’s chances on home soil. Hamrin emerged as one of the stars of that World Cup, coming into his own in the quarter-final against Russia and the semi-final against West Germany. Against the Russians he unleashed his full armoury of tricks, dummying both ways and accelerating past his markers. The Swedes won 2-0 with Hamrin heading the first and setting up the second, beating three men before cutting the ball back to the grateful Simonsson. One journalist describing this match said: "It was though Hamrin had launched a personal blitzkrieg."

Against the ruthless Germans he was once again Sweden’s danger man, tormenting his marker, full-back Juskowiak, time and time again. The defender became so wound up that when Hamrin - who, wrote the English journalist Brian Glanville, bore his way through the German defence "like an inspired mole" - fouled him 12 minutes into the second half, he lost his temper and retaliated, resulting in him being sent off. With the Germans down to 10 men Sweden won 3-1 with Hamrin scoring the third a minute from time. It was arguably the best individual goal of the competition. Receiving the ball he began to trundle with it towards the touchline "like a man stricken by temporary amnesia," wrote Glanville. Then he suddenly came alive, beating one man, then a second and a third before slipping the ball past German goalkeeper Herkenrath. Which meant Sweden were in the Final."

Sort of underrated for being a constant 2nd, in the top goal scorer awards, with his club and with the national team. But ability wise he's an absolute great.

Gunnar ''Il Profesore" Gren
Position: Inside right(secondary: Right half)
Height:
180
Weight: 75 kg
NT Achievements:
Olympic Gold - 1948
World Cup Silver - 1958
Team of the tournament - 1958

Style of play

Such an underrated part of the Grenoli. George Raynor said that Gren was the best player out of the Grenoli trio and a lot of people would agree. Some Swedish football experts lists Gren as the greatest Swedish player in history.

His skill with a football was apparent from an early age. While playing for boys' club BK Strix, Gren won a competition to find the best ball juggler against players from the top league, in Gothenburg and as part of his prize was paid to perform at half-time in a handball match.
For most of his career Gren was much more of a goal creator than a prolific scorer, always knowing the right ball to play at any given time. Yet still had a goal every other game average, just like Liedholm thanks to some fantastic finishing.

As a result of his flawless technique and dribbling Raymor remembers the first time he saw Gren play "He dribbled around three men, round the goalkeeper then turned around just to beat the goalkeeper again before and then back heeled the ball in to the net" which had Raynor hopping mad. For most of his career Gren was much more of a goal creator than a prolific scorer, always knowing the right ball to play at any given time and in Italy he was given the nickname 'Il Professore' for his intelligent style of play.

A fantastic blend of intelligent playmaking, excellent at retaining the ball and a showboating creativity and dribbling.

Both in terms of style and quality he was similar to Liedholm. He didn't have Liedholms world class passing range, but made up for it as the better technician and dribbler and with a much better drive and grit.

After a long unbeaten run, Sweden eventually lost in 1947, which marked an important turning point in the tricksters career as Raynor convinced him that he had to play for the team first.

Nordahl recalls that the Swedes were indebted to Gren for that final performance where "only he dared to keep the hold of the ball".

Defensively, as an inside right/left in the WM(3-2-2-3) the two "attacking midfielders" would fall back all the way in to the area to defend crosses. A narrow line of four formed just outside the area consisting of the inside right/half and the left/right half.

If the opponents had a deeper build up they'd push forward to regain the shape of the WM which means their job was that of a true box to box role. As they defended inside their area and ended up in the opponents area in nearly every attack.

The difference is that they didn't have any real responsibility to win the ball back through grit and tackling.


Nils "Il Conte" Liedholm
Position:
Inside left/right(Secondary: left/right half, left winger)
Height: 188 cm
Weight: 77 kg
NT Achievements:
Olympic Gold - 1948
World Cup Silver - 1958

His peak as an individual came in 48-51(26-30 yo), similar to Nordahl. Together they were key pieces in a Norrköping side that dominated Swedish football at the time. So the unbelievable magic they had came from playing together for so long.

They were well known greats nationally prior to the '48 Olympics, but it was there that they had their first chance to step up and face the best the other nations had to offer.

After a glorious Olympic from Grenoli they were all signed by Milan. Even if Milan as a team was struggling to find a common ground between the newly arrived Swedes neverending attacking samba football and the great tactical Italians - Nils arguably had one of his best seasons with a 6-1 trashing of the eventual winners Juventus as the highpoint of the season.

With 18 league goals he was playing exceptional football as Milan with the Swedes proved to be the most enchanting attacking side in the league. Milan scored 118 goals in the league that season with 36 coming from Gren and Liedholm and 35 from Nordahl.

In 50-51 he was also the stand out player of the year with Nordahl and Gren and won the league as well as the Latin Cup, the forerunner to the European Cup. While Nordahl was a bigger star while at Norrköping, Liedholm was now pushing Nordahl for his money and was as good if not better than the striker.

Style of play
Nils Liedholm gave rare meaning to the over-used description of football as "the beautiful game". A deeply thoughtful Swede who passed his playing pomp in Italy with AC Milan, he was tall and possed supreme fitness and was one of the most elegant, imaginative and productive midfield generals of his generation, and it was no surprise that he matured into a immensely successful coach in the adopted land he had come to embrace.

An absolute world class dribbler and playmaker with great stamina who would beat players with ease. He could go on dribbling raids and beat player after player to score on his own.

Or more commonly he'd beat his markers with ease. Just to strut towards the defender who had to take the challenge - for Liedholm to get a yard with his dribbling and find the free space that opened up behind the now out-of-position defender.


Together with Gren and Nordahl he led one of the most effective and entertaining attacks in history.

His speciality was passing the ball, intelligently and with remarkable accuracy, over long distances and short, and there is a story that it was two years before he first misplaced a dispatch in front of his home supporters. Their reaction to this stunning occurrence, the tale goes on, was a five-minute standing ovation to indicate their recognition that they had witnessed a mere blip in the maestro's customary excellence. Liedholm was close to perfect, after all he had been named “player of the millennium” by Swedish newspaper Aftonbladet.

"I remember performances in which he didn't make a single mistake," said Silvio Berlusconi

The more impressive as Liedholm never played it safe, in fact quite the contrary. With a cool head he defied the law of space in football and as long as he received a pass to his feet he'd get away from his marker regardless. He never pointlessly recycled possession but rather tried to create something with every touch.

Liedholm was an early adopter of non-football related training methods. He ran the 500 and 3000 metre races as a youngster, threw shot put and even mastered the javelin, and as a result he was able to take some of the most remarkable throw-ins in history, from the halfway line directly into the heart of the box. They were unparalleled in their accuracy and deadliness.

Defensively, as an inside right/left in the WM(3-2-2-3) the two "attacking midfielders" would fall back all the way in to the area to defend crosses. A narrow line of four formed just outside the area consisting of the inside right/half and the left/right half.

If the opponents had a deeper build up they'd push forward to regain the shape of the WM which means their job was that of a true box to box role. As they defended inside their area and ended up in the opponents area in nearly every attack.

The difference is that they didn't have any real responsibility to win the ball back through grit and tackling.


Bengt "Julle" Gustavsson

Position: Defender(CB/SB/DM)
Height: 1.82m
Weight: 81kg
NT Achievements:
World Cup Silver - 1958
Fussballweltmeisterschaft 1958 "Best centre back of the tournament"


Career Statistics
Team--------Matches-------
Club------------292-----------
Sweden--------57------------


Peak Statistics - 1958-61
Team--------Matches-------
Club------------292-----------
Sweden--------57--
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By the end of the year, Dr. Becker had prepared his book on the 1958 World Cup called “Fussballweltmeisterschaft 1958” and taken from that book is the following excerpt which again tackles the best players of the tournament, based on his own opinion and that of various journalists he met in Sweden.

The best centre half of the tournament was according “Fussballweltmeisterschaft 1958” none other than Bengt Gustavsson.

In the Ballon d'Or the same year he was nomineed and had as many votes as Yashin, Suarez and settled himself as one of the very finest centre backs of the season.

Style of play


The Swedish defenders in George Raynors side played a simple game, but the beauty was in how perfect they played it. Their job was massive and they had nearly all defensive responsibility in the team. The two wingers and the strikers tried to force a long pass from the opponents and it was up to the defenders to make sure that turned to a won ball for the Swedes.

Gustavsson had decent technique and ball playing ability but it was as a pure stopper that he shined. As soon as the opponents played a longer ball towards the striker, Gustavsson would read the play before it happened and started bombarding forward to close down the space. And just as the opponent received the ball, 81 kg of steel at full speed put in a brutal tackle to force a weak first touch or to win the ball.

Against Soviet the Swedish defense with Gustavsson in the lead repeated this simple trick repeatedly and completely shut down the great Soviet attack completely over the course of the game.

A combination of reading when the pass would be played, fantastic pace and recovery pace and then a mighty strength and a well precision tackled was all he needed. The back three tended to all have this balance to their game combined with a great aerial ability to close down the chance for aerial balls leading to something.



Style of play

Nilsson was a very consistent left back and due to his impressive physique, which he got from wrestling, he straight up scared his opponents, some teams even threatened Malmö that they wouldn't play friendly games against them if Nilsson would be on the pitch. He was a real captain and a leader, with good positioning and tactical awareness but also decent ball control. He was part of Olympic gold in 1948 in London, World Championship bronze in 1950 and Olympic bronze in Helsinki 1952.

Witnesses of his games remembers "How we enjoyed when the opponents right winger got the ball at his feet and in panic got rid of it not to get hit by the train. How we laughed when Erik, with a smile on his face went for a tackle on the horrified winger and stole the ball from him like stealing candy from a disobedient kid."

In one game, Sweden were being obliterated until Erik Nilsson took command and started directing the entire Swedish defense on his own and leading by example, to pull the team up from the mud.



Kalle "Rio-Kalle" Svensson
Position: Goalkeeper
Height: 178 cm
Weight: 76 kg
NT Achievements:
Olympic Gold - 1948
Olympic Bronze - 1952
World Cup Bronze - 1950
World Cup 4th - 1938

Kalle Svensson is one of the greatest Swedish goalkeepers of all time and was a consistent part of the most successful period in Swedish football. Between 1948 to 1958 he was part of four campaigns that led to two Bronze, one silver and one gold.

Style of play

A great classical keeper known for his positioning, consistency and fantastic saves from the line. Funnily he got his nickname Rio-Kalle from a game in São Paulo where in the last minute he made a crucial and absolutely impossible save, but as São Paulo-Kalle would be too hard to pronounce they went with Rio-Kalle instead.

Did you miss the full story from last game? Click here.
---------------------SWEDEN 1948-58/ANNAH------------------------------------------------TEAM ENIGMA

 

Annahnomoss

Full Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2012
Messages
10,101
TEAM ENIGMA
Formation:
5-3-2 / 3-5-2
Style: Quick direct tempo

Players:

GK: Ulbaldo Fillol WC 1978 - quite possibly the best South American keeper had a blinder in the WC in 1978. He decided the game against Poland, saving a penalty by Kazimierz Deyna, and helping Argentina to win the first World Cup with a superb performance in the final against Holland. Fillol was voted the best goalkeeper of the 1978 World Cup, conceding only 4 goals in 7 games against the likes of Brazil, Netherlands, Italy, France, Peru, boasting with incredible attacking threats in their ranks.

LWB: Giacinto Facchetti EURO 1968 - Strong, tall, elegant and imposing defender in his playing days, he rarely seemed to lose his cool. Revolutionized the full back position playing 634 official games and scoring 75 goals. He played for the Internazionale team remembered as La Grande Inter. Facchetti is remembered as one of the first truly great attacking-full backs. He would make marauding runs upfield using his wonderful dribbling and crossing. He also possessed wonderful stamina and scored important goals. EURO 1968 winner in a team that conceded only 4 goals in 9 games and scored 20.

RWB: Manuel Amoros WC 1986 - Best right back in Mexico and voted team of the tournament he provided solid performances against the likes of Brazil, France, the Soviet Union, etc in a team that conceded just 2 goals up until the SF's against West Germany. He provided defensive solidity and had a amazing performance against Brazil in the QF's, where he ripped them apart going forward.

LCB: Paolo Maldini WC 1994- Many remember the incredible performance Baresi put against Romario in the final, but it was grande Paolo who put a pretty uninspiring(apart from Baggio) Italian side through the finals. Baresi was injured in the group stage, and Maldini put excellent performances both as a LB and CB bossing the defence and putting masterful performances in a patched up defence most of the time. He was voted in the team of the tournament and later 3rd in Ballon D'or on the back of that WC.

Libero: Bobby Moore WC 1966 - probably the highest peak of a defender in a WC tournament at the biggest stage with some of the GOATS on the other side of the pitch. Sir Geoff Hurst said he was his hero, Sir Alf Ramsey claims he was the best he ever worked with and that England would never have won the World Cup without him. Franz Beckenbauer, an opponent in that 1966 final, called him "the best defender in the history of the game" and Pele agreed. There were the last-ditch tackles - perfectly timed, of course - and the instinctive sense for danger that led Jock Stein to quip that "there should be a law against him as he knows what's happening 20 minutes before everyone else". And the final performance was truly spectacular:

RCB: Elías Figueroa - Don Elías was elected best defender in the 1974 WC and in the team of the tournament after a majestic display against the best team (and striker) in the tournament along with the Dutch side. He nullified an in form Gerd Muller and produced a 10/10 performance that is rare to be seen up against one of the best forwards in history. After all games Figueroa took part in that WC he received a standing ovation by the German fans - a testimony of how he performed and how high was rated during those games. An absolute colossus in the box he won every challenge in the area, marshaled the Chile defence, attacked the first ball and was usually a one man defence.


CM: Franz Beckenbauer - Known as being a stylish captain as a player, an inspirational leader as a manager and a statesmanlike figure as an administrator. Best described by some old time greats(Eusebio and Sir Bobby):

“He could play in either position (defence or midfield). [ . . . ] He had versatility, suppleness, read the game very well, knew how to play, and could get forward and score goals too.” — Eusebio

“Franz was a marvelous distributor of the ball, a great tackler, he always had control of a situation and he never panicked. [ . . . ] (He was) extremely cool and never looked like (he was) at full stretch. Such a hard player to play against.” — Sir Bobby Charlton

“The most important thing he had was a fantastic vision.” — Sir Bobby Charlton

Playmaker: Didi WC 1958: Golden ball winner, team of the tournament and the star of the tournament. In 6 games he scored 1 goal, and provided 6 assists. Key Performance: Brazil 5 - 2 France (Semi Final) 1 Goal, 2 Assists
One of the very best midfielders ever in the top of his game.

AM: Pelé WC 1970: Strong contender of the best individual performance at international stage ever, Pele was at his best at the time - more mature, more well rounded and was the cornerstone behind one of the greatest teams in history. He played as an AM most of the time timing his runs in the box, scoring important goals, setting up team mates, getting stuck in and also dribbling his way through opponents left, right and centre. He was literally everywhere.

SS: Hristo Stoichkov WC 1994 - Star of the tournament in an underdog Bulgarian side - he was at his best level scoring 6 and winning the Golden Boot. Free role to roam around the attack, stretch the play wide, put in crosses or cut in and finish chances by himself

CF: Gerd Muller WC 1970 - Der Bomber won the Ballon D'or the same year on the back of that WC performance, and what a performance it was. A strong contender for the very best individual performances in an international tournament. Muller netted the Golden Shoe for his ten strikes and he also provided three assists ensuring he makes the record books once again for the best ever individual contribution by a player in a single finals since 1966. Trailing Morocco in the first game it took an equaliser from Uwe Seeler and a late winner from Muller to secure the two points. Muller's winner was trademark bomber stuff as he nodded in from barely a yard out after the ball rebounded off the crossbar.

The Nationalmannschaft were rolling with Muller in particular in sparkling form. A hat-trick including a bullet header for his third was the highlight in the next match against Bulgaria while he added another hat-trick in West Germany's final group game against Peru. All in the space of 20 minutes!

Muller's second hat-trick of the tournament proved he wasn't just a poacher as he scored a goal with both feet and added a dipping header for his third. Seven goals already and that was just the group stage.

Thoughts on the game:
Defence
: Annah has done wonders presenting his team and has managed to improve the Swede incarnation half a century ago. They were excellent going forward so our defence has to be water tight to neutralize the danger. In defence we have Maldini at his absolute peak who alternated between LB and CB in 1994 - one of the most complete defenders of all time, paired with Figueroa, who is excellent match for Nordahl - fast, strong as an ox and absolute colossus in the air. Moore will be sweeping behind in a libero role and push up in possession like he did in 1966. Amoros and Facchetti will man their flanks, supply width for the attackers, go on marauding runs and stretch the opponents. The 5-3-2 transforming into 3-5-2 plays to the strengths to all of my defenders and boosts their ability both in defence and attack, as it liberates Facchetti/Amoros when going forward, being covered by Maldini and Figueroa and plays to Moore strengths with two physical top defenders besides him flanked by all time great Facchetti and one of the best right full backs in Amoros.

Midfield: In the center of the park we have a midfield general in Beckenbauer who with his energy fits like a glove Didi and sets the stage for him and Pele to do their thing. Pele will be in his 1970 incarnation, helping out the midfield, looking for openings dribbling his way through opponents and scoring goals himself.

Atttack: We have well balanced attack with the best pure finisher in history in Muller, whose movement will keep Annah defence on the back foot, Stoichkov in a free role in the 1994 incarnation where he will roam all over the attack and with his grit and determination will look for openings open up space and finish chances himself. We have complimentary players with the Brazillian flair and ability on the ball in Didi/Pele, whose vision can unlock any defence. Complimented by will, pace, work rate and determination of Stoichkov and German coolness and finishing ability by Muller, provided by excellent flanks in Facchetti and Amoros and the always threatening Beckenbauer surging forward on occasion.
 

harms

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@Enigma_87 can you comment on Beckenbauer's version? Why 1970 instead of 1966? Not saying that it's a bad decision, just want to see the argumentation behind it.
 

Annahnomoss

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So to clarify. Again Raynors side would not have an answer to Facchetti and Amoros and will instead let them have the ball out wide while Rijkaard and Voronin falls down in to the box with Liedholm and Gren just outside of it. Hamrin, Nordahl and Skoglund will purely focus on the counter to take advantage of the space behind the wing backs.

I'm happy to not face the 4-2-3-1 where the wing threat of his side was supreme which would be hard for a WM formation to deal with. Now my centrally focused defensive five will be a wall for his also centrally oriented attack.

When Maldini/Figueroa steps out towards Skoglund and Hamrin, Liedholm and Gren will storm straight in to the box to flood the area and Moore will have a hard time dealing with Nordahl, Liedholm, Gren and the opposite winger.
 
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Annahnomoss

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aye, wanted to do something different with it and having some inspiration from you and Aldo helped :)

Good luck to you mate and thanks for setting it up!
Great formation picture and well done! Also, Figueroa vs Nordahl is one for the history books.
 

Enigma_87

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@Enigma_87 can you comment on Beckenbauer's version? Why 1970 instead of 1966? Not saying that it's a bad decision, just want to see the argumentation behind it.
yeah gladly, mate.

Beckenbauer in 66 had a great tournament - excellent going forward and also man marked Sir Bobby in the final. He made his name there and was excellent going forward while also rock solid in defence making 17 tackles in the tournament.

With that being said it was as an up and comer and a younger version of him. In 1970 he was more solid defensively, more mature and IMO at his peak in the midfield/half back position. He still was pretty decisive going forward when he scored against England and then creating that free kick when he dislocated his shoulder against Italy and of course this:


In essence the 1970 version he was more disciplined, mature and excellent defensively so in the end better fit for partnering Didi and also having Pele in front of them.
 

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yeah gladly, mate.

Beckenbauer in 66 had a great tournament - excellent going forward and also man marked Sir Bobby in the final. He made his name there and was excellent going forward while also rock solid in defence making 17 tackles in the tournament.

With that being said it was as an up and comer and a younger version of him. In 1970 he was more solid defensively, more mature and IMO at his peak in the midfield/half back position. He still was pretty decisive going forward when he scored against England and then creating that free kick when he dislocated his shoulder against Italy and of course this:


In essence the 1970 version he was more disciplined, mature and excellent defensively so in the end better fit for partnering Didi and also having Pele in front of them.
Which was a great choice of yours. The '66 version would not be compatible here with Didi and Pele to be honest.
 

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Would love to discuss this as it was sort of new for me as well for this game. My plan was to replace him at first but then I found some great stuff about him bar the generic "Best European stopper of the late 1950's" which are sort of pointless on their own.

Bengt Gustavsson - 1958 - "The best stopper of the tournament" - Dr.Becker
By the end of the year, Dr. Becker had prepared his book on the 1958 World Cup called “Fussballweltmeisterschaft 1958” and taken from that book is the following excerpt which again tackles the best players of the tournament, based on his own opinion and that of various journalists he met in Sweden.

The best centre half of the tournament was according “Fussballweltmeisterschaft 1958” none other than Bengt Gustavsson.

As no surprise to John Charles who desribed him as the best centre-back he ever played, in the Ballon d'Or the same year he was nomineed and had as many votes as Yashin, Suarez and settled himself as one of the very finest centre backs of the season.

In the August edition of France Football 1984 they made a list of the best 10 players of the century in each position and Bengt Gustavsson is rated as number 5.
Note: I do not think he's top 5 or close to that. But fair to say he's a bloody great stopper.
----------

Standing 182 cm tall and weighing in at 81 kg, he epitomized the style of the Swedish defense under Raynor. Dominant in the air, strong as an ox, yet quick and aggressive. "By pushing John Charles into a defensive role Murphy denied the public of the fascinating duel between Swedish centre-half, Bengt Gustavsson, who played for Serie A club Atalanta. The pair had some titanic battles in Italian football and after the game Charles were sorry for the people who paid to see it."
 

Enigma_87

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Which was a great choice of yours. The '66 version would not be compatible here with Didi and Pele to be honest.
I mulled over that one, but with Stoichkov, Pele and Muller I had enough firepower up front to try and implement more box to boxy Beckenbauer. It's better balanced no doubt.
 

Enigma_87

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On an unrelated note, @Annahnomoss what's your take on Simonsson? He was the top scorer in 58(along with Hamrin) and had quite good goal/game ratio for Sweden in general.
 

Physiocrat

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@Enigma_87

I'm not sure Pele is the best player for a 10 role in a 3412. Even in '70 he wasn't really the main playmaker, that was more Rivelino's role supported by Gerson further back. In a 4231 I'd have less worries but as it stands I think he has too much playmaking responsibility for the role - IMO in '70 he's really a creative second-striker more than a 10.
 

Annahnomoss

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On an unrelated note, @Annahnomoss what's your take on Simonsson? He was the top scorer in 58(along with Hamrin) and had quite good goal/game ratio for Sweden in general.
He was fantastic. Good pace, drive and decent dribbling, was a real threat to the opponents and a great goalscorer as well. Sweden were lucky to have him as Nordahl wasn't playing or they wouldn't have gone so far.
 

Enigma_87

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@Enigma_87

I'm not sure Pele is the best player for a 10 role in a 3412. Even in '70 he wasn't really the main playmaker, that was more Rivelino's role supported by Gerson further back. In a 4231 I'd have less worries but as it stands I think he has too much playmaking responsibility for the role - IMO in '70 he's really a creative second-striker more than a 10.
I've gone in more length in the game against Downcast for his role:

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/enigma-vs-downcast-nt-peak-draft.428297/

He's not the main creator, nor the main playmaker - that's Didi, which I've noted in the OP. Pele tracked back a lot in 70' and helped the midfield a lot as well. So in a sense he was not the classic SS either, he was an AM, simply put.

A quote from Zagallo:

· He was the only player you left up the field(Tostão). Do you accept the label of 4-5-1 for that team?

I do. Because we played as a block, compact, as you say leaving only Tostão up field. Jairzinho, Pelé, Rivelino, all tracked back to join Gerson and Clodoaldo in the midfield. I’m happy to see the team in terms of 4-5-1. We brought our team back behind the line of the ball. We didn’t want to give space for the Europeans to hit us with quick counter attacks. Our team was not characterised by strong marking. Our method of defending was to position ourselves in zone, cover the space and not carry out man-to-man marking. If we had gone with high-pressure marking then by the second half we would have run out of gas. So we saved our energy, dropped back, and then when we won possession the technical quality of our team stood out.

He's not burdened with organizing the play and being the playmaker of the team in a sense of a classic #10, he's more like in his zone here from that tournament - free to create and combine with the main playmaker(Didi/like with Gerson) having a highly mobile forward in Muller to play off him and a free roaming attacker in Stoichkov(ala Jairzinho). I'm not creating a remake and obviously the system is different but that won't take away something from his game, neither will put extra responsibility in terms of being the main playmaker, which I agree he was not.

That's why I listed him as an AM in the OP rather than the conventional #10, as there is one thing Pele is not and that's conventional/ordinary :)
 
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Enigma_87

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I think our team is in the zone and close to what their roles were in the respective tournaments. Obviously there will be some difference here and there but IMO more similarities than anything.

Beckenbauer played in 4-2-4 next to a playmaker in Overath - here he has Didi. Didi played with a solid energetic midfielder in Zito who protected the back four. Here he has Beckenbauer who is all thing considered GOAT in defensive sense and reading of the game and also covers a lot of ground. Pele played with a mobile forward in Tostao(#10 also who was further up the pitch) here he has Muller, who shares some of that traits in terms of role and positioned in the same sense. Stoichkov played as a free roaming forward off Sirakov in a 4-3-3, 3-4-3 in 94 with two creative players in Letchkov and Balakov, here he has Muller and Pele next to him.

The defence I also tried to explain more in the OP but I think highlights their qualities in the respective tournaments - Amoros and Facchetti with freedom to man their flanks, Maldini alternating LB/CB role from 94 where he had to step in the center with many injuries and suspensions, Figueroa with a more of a CB role like in 1974 marking the opposition forward(he didn't roam forward all that much, mainly because of the quality he was up against and usually stayed back, compared to his usual forward runs) and Moore in rather libero role with physical and athletic defenders around him.
 

Enigma_87

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He was fantastic. Good pace, drive and decent dribbling, was a real threat to the opponents and a great goalscorer as well. Sweden were lucky to have him as Nordahl wasn't playing or they wouldn't have gone so far.
Cheers. Probably he's a bit lucky too not to overlap with Nordahl so that he could have his moment in 58'.
 

Chesterlestreet

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Yeah, no issue with Pelé in that role. Should work well enough.

On a general note, I don't think you need a main playmaker - not if you have sufficient creativity in the team as such. The idea that you have to play some kind of monster orchestrator in order for things to flow nicely is a draft obsession - one which doesn't reflect how many great sides were put together in reality.

Anyway, moot point - as Enigma actually sports a main playmaker, and a monster at that, so everyone should be happy.
 

Enigma_87

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Yeah, no issue with Pelé in that role. Should work well enough.

On a general note, I don't think you need a main playmaker - not if you have sufficient creativity in the team as such. The idea that you have to play some kind of monster orchestrator in order for things to flow nicely is a draft obsession - one which doesn't reflect how many great sides were put together in reality.

Anyway, moot point - as Enigma actually sports a main playmaker, and a monster at that, so everyone should be happy.
Yes, exactly spot on.

One of the reason I could make the transition to 5-3-2/3-5-2 was of course Beckenbauer, who also can keep the flow of the game. Naturally a lot of the play will come through Didi, that's undisputed, but that doesn't mean that if the opposition suffocate him the midfield and creativity in the team will fall on its arse.

There's too much creativity and ability in this team so it doesn't allow that to happen. Generally all players sported are excellent on the ball and fully capable of keeping the ball moving.

A good example of that (not in the world cup per say but something to underline as der Kaiser passing ability) is in 1973 Argentina vs Germany.

Germany were losing which caused Beckenbauer to step up field and to play more as a midfielder than defender. He still had an excellent playmaker in Overath besides him, but his distribution was great on that day to make the same point(and also not to overlap with a great playmaker).


Germany still lost that game 2-3 but produced some exciting combinations in the 2nd half.
 

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Difficult match to picture this, plus Didi v Sweden 58 is slightly different to Didi facing that midfield at their peak with Voronin and Rijkaard.

Hamrin v Fachetti and Maldini (not at their best but close enough) with zero full back support is a battle I can't see him winning.

Skogland v Amoros is a more even duel and with Liedholm slaloming his way down that flank too.. I can envisage some creativity coming down that side.

Nordahl against Figueroa is a great duel but with the protection of Moore there again will be very tough to envisage any crosses coming in due to lack of full back support so going to be tough to score goals against this defence.

Beckenbauer and Didi won't find it easy to defend against Gren and Liedholm but at the same time, they're more cultured attacking mids rather than a Maradona who will disrupt their positions so I can see them faring well.

I back Djalma to see off threat of Stoichkov but I don't see how Muller will be kept quiet here and as good as Kohler was.. keeping Pele quiet all game is close to impossible and even if he himself doesn't score he will create chances for Muller in this game.

Of course Voronin and Rijkaard will also be there to get into areas Pele likes to occupy but if the wing backs bomb forward the CDMs will gravitate towards flanks to help out the LCB/RCB and spaces will open up.
 

Annahnomoss

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Difficult match to picture this, plus Didi v Sweden 58 is slightly different to Didi facing that midfield at their peak with Voronin and Rijkaard.

Hamrin v Fachetti and Maldini (not at their best but close enough) with zero full back support is a battle I can't see him winning.

Skogland v Amoros is a more even duel and with Liedholm slaloming his way down that flank too.. I can envisage some creativity coming down that side.

Nordahl against Figueroa is a great duel but with the protection of Moore there again will be very tough to envisage any crosses coming in due to lack of full back support so going to be tough to score goals against this defence.

Beckenbauer and Didi won't find it easy to defend against Gren and Liedholm but at the same time, they're more cultured attacking mids rather than a Maradona who will disrupt their positions so I can see them faring well.

I back Djalma to see off threat of Stoichkov but I don't see how Muller will be kept quiet here and as good as Kohler was.. keeping Pele quiet all game is close to impossible and even if he himself doesn't score he will create chances for Muller in this game.

Of course Voronin and Rijkaard will also be there to get into areas Pele likes to occupy but if the wing backs bomb forward the CDMs will gravitate towards flanks to help out the LCB/RCB and spaces will open up.
The Swedish side was extremely direct, as was all teams at the time. You won the ball and with four ball carrying players whoever received it would be leading the counter. Most of my attacks would come when Facchetti and Amoros has pushed up. Also Liedholm and Gren will be key, pushing in to the box for every attack which means just a cross to the box will cause danger. When Facchetti/Amoros are caught upfield Maldini or Figueroa have to step out and suddenly the box is filled with one winger, Nordahl, Liedholm and Gren.

*Gustavsson

Also in the defense Facchetti and Amoros will be left alone out wide towards the corner flag while the team remains very low with Voronin/Rijkaard/Kohler/Gustavsson/Djalma in the box. The goal is to let them provide crosses as the team is so strong in that regard.

No WM defenders had marking roles on any wing backs, they'd be a shock to the team. It was always on the forwards/wingers. The LCB/RCB will make sure the full back can't run in to the area but they won't be pulled to the corner flag trying to win the ball back.
 
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Enigma_87

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The Swedish side was extremely direct, as was all teams at the time. You won the ball and with four ball carrying players whoever received it would be leading the counter. Most of my attacks would come when Facchetti and Amoros has pushed up. Also Liedholm and Gren will be key, pushing in to the box for every attack which means just a cross to the box will cause danger. When Facchetti/Amoros are caught upfield Maldini or Figueroa have to step out and suddenly the box is filled with one winger, Nordahl, Liedholm and Gren.
Beckenbauer will also track back so he'll be there in the thereabouts. Also when the other winger tucks in naturally the other CB(Maldini/Figueroa) will be in the box as well, so they won't be outnumbered in any sense. Facchetti and Amoros have also excellent positional sense so they can cover the space pretty quick.

For Facchetti and Amoros one thing that has to be noted is how fast they were and the ability to eat grass and close space. They usually bossed their flanks and were ever present in both areas of the pitch. Even if they are caught up I'd back them to close the space fast enough especially having in mind the defensive central core we have in the team.

There is also the danger when putting that many men in the box when we recover the ball and launch an counter attack of our own. If we get the ball immediately wide, that would pull Rijkaard/Voronin wide, creating space for Pele in the middle. With another deadly, pacy player in Stoichkov and a more direct style, could easily be punished on a counter after the counter(so to speak :) )

Leaving the space open on the wings and saturating the box doesn't guarantee that we'll bomb the box with crosses(Moyes like). Beckenbauer, Didi, Pele, Stoichkov are treat outside the box just as Muller is inside the box. There is also highly mobile forward line that would stretch the defence and leave space behind. I can see a long ranger unlocking the defence and then you will have to open up a bit if you fall behind, which will fall into our game plan :)
 
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Annahnomoss

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Beckenbauer will also track back so he'll be there in the thereabouts. Also when the other winger tucks in naturally the other CB(Maldini/Figueroa) will be in the box as well, so they won't be outnumbered in any sense. Facchetti and Amoros have also excellent positional sense so they can cover the space pretty quick.

For Facchetti and Amoros one thing that has to be noted is how fast they were and the ability to eat grass and close space. They usually bossed their flanks and were ever present in both areas of the pitch. Even if they are caught up I'd back them to close the space fast enough especially having in mind the defensive central core we have in the team.
Facchetti and Amoros are GOAT wing backs and they'd do the best job one can imagine, but no wing back can get back in time to defend against a winger who just waits to attack on the counter. I watched the 1990 WC Germany vs Netherlands game today and the space behind Brehme was constantly covered for by Kohler. It just isn't possible to attack as a winger without leaving space, but you have excellent choices in the LCB/RCB role who will cover.
 

Enigma_87

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Facchetti and Amoros are GOAT wing backs and they'd do the best job one can imagine, but no wing back can get back in time to defend against a winger who just waits to attack on the counter. I watched the 1990 WC Germany vs Netherlands game today and the space behind Brehme was constantly covered for by Kohler. It just isn't possible to attack as a winger without leaving space, but you have excellent choices in the LCB/RCB role who will cover.
Yeah of course, no player is faster than the ball.

My comment was more of having the LCB/RCB cover the flank if the ball is pulled wide, while in the same time the wing backs are tracking back. So the idea is one of them slowing the winger/midfielder while the wing back tracks back. Which is of course the foundation of the formation I've used.

Maldini/Figueroa are GOAT defenders in terms of reading of the game and doing just that of course.

One funny post by anto which I came across the other day, showcases just that for Figueroa and his covering ability:

Inter de Porto Alegre banned him from joining the Chilean team for the 1973 playoff against the USSR in Moscow.

He was so upset in the run up to the game that he got a ticket privately, flew from Brazil to Moscow, arrived there wearing light trousers and a colourful t-shirt while they had sub-zero temperatures :lol:

He got a cab and made it to the team hotel just in time to catch the ride to the stadium. Chile secured a 0-0 draw.

During the game, Blokhin was tearing the right back a new one. Bizarrely, the right back was stone deaf on his left year so he was finding it really hard to coordinate stuff. He told his other teammates to tell him to keep tight but the guy answered he just couldn't cope with Blokhin's pace so Figueroa switches around with the other CB and waits...

As soon as a long pass is placed behind the RBs back, Blokhin is speeding onto it and Figueroa tackles, ball, man, studs straight through his ankle. Blokhin did nothing of note thereafter and Chile qualified to the 1974 World Cup.
 

harms

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In essence the 1970 version he was more disciplined, mature and excellent defensively so in the end better fit for partnering Didi and also having Pele in front of them.
Makes sense.
He was so consistently amazing that it's hard to choose a definitive peak. Probably 1972 in terms of international performances, but his midfield performances before that alone put him in an all-time great tier.
 

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Makes sense.
He was so consistently amazing that it's hard to choose a definitive peak. Probably 1972 in terms of international performances, but his midfield performances before that alone put him in an all-time great tier.
Yup. Even '66 was incredible in its own way.
 

Enigma_87

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Makes sense.
He was so consistently amazing that it's hard to choose a definitive peak. Probably 1972 in terms of international performances, but his midfield performances before that alone put him in an all-time great tier.
Yea it what made him truly special. In 1966 he was more of a goal threat and had more freedom to express himself going forward. Probably next to a DM the 1966 version would stood up more and be more apt, but I need the more mature and defensively excellent Beckenbauer for this one.
 

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Just can't look past Enigma's team. Annah's "Swedes" are amazing, and it was a fantastic presentation (hopefully it'll increase their profile for the next drafts), but surely this is the last stop for them.
 

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As the game seems to be decided, let's just have a look at Grenoli in 1950-51. 1949-50 was more spectacular in their offensive achivements but it isn't available as a whole so this video is the best we have.

These are their 1949 clips.
 
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Physiocrat

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Yeah, no issue with Pelé in that role. Should work well enough.

On a general note, I don't think you need a main playmaker - not if you have sufficient creativity in the team as such. The idea that you have to play some kind of monster orchestrator in order for things to flow nicely is a draft obsession - one which doesn't reflect how many great sides were put together in reality.

Anyway, moot point - as Enigma actually sports a main playmaker, and a monster at that, so everyone should be happy.
My point was that it's at least odd not to have a very creative player as a 10 in a 3412
 

Enigma_87

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As the game seems to be decided, let's just have a look at Grenoli in 1950-51. 1949-50 was more spectacular in their offensive achivements but it isn't available as a whole so this video is the best we have.
Still, early and from the game against Edgar one should never underestimate your team :)

Excellent video, loved that Milan side(I think there were also more from the same channel compilations from that time and the quality is pretty good).
 

Enigma_87

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My point was that it's at least odd not to have a very creative player as a 10 in a 3412
I like my teams to have diverse source of creativity to be honest and not to depend on a single #10 to pull the strings. Besides that allows Pele to play his natural game and also gives him more opportunity to express himself.
 

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Still, early and from the game against Edgar one should never underestimate your team :)

Excellent video, loved that Milan side(I think there were also more from the same channel compilations from that time and the quality is pretty good).
It is a great channel for anything Milan related!
 

Physiocrat

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I like my teams to have diverse source of creativity to be honest and not to depend on a single #10 to pull the strings. Besides that allows Pele to play his natural game and also gives him more opportunity to express himself.
I agree with that. I'd just prefer to see Pele further forward even in his '70 incarnation.