Antony

Redcy

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He’s not coming cheeky bid to villa for £25m for Leon Bailey, he’d jump at united

Yep we could get ;
Benjamin Sesco(40), Y Tielemans(30),N Kante(15), Marco Ascensio (35)

thats £120M and probably improves our squad more than these two players just saying or do we let other teams like Newcastle pick up a 26 year old Ascensio whose made for the PL
That would be an awful window fecking hell. Tielemans was awful last year, barely ran the pitch. Kante looks shot at the top level playing lots games anyway. Asensio is actual dogshit <60 mins per game, last year was his best year in a long time, with 12 goals and 2 assists in 48 games. Sesko is far too early in his development
 

Dominos

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Do we think Ajax position was they'll let one of Martinez or Anthony leave but not both as they don't want to lose so many first teamers in one go? Or were they only ever willing to let Martinez leave and no intention of letting Anthony leave?

If they were only willing to let one of them leave, did we make the right choice in getting Martinez? I suppose it comes down to whether our secondary targets at CB were stronger/weaker than our secondary targets for RW.
 

roseguy64

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Do we think Ajax position was they'll let one of Martinez or Anthony leave but not both as they don't want to lose so many first teamers in one go? Or were they only ever willing to let Martinez leave and no intention of letting Anthony leave?

If they were only willing to let one of them leave, did we make the right choice in getting Martinez? I suppose it comes down to whether our secondary targets at CB were stronger/weaker than our secondary targets for RW.
They wanted neither to leave. That's why we overpaid for Martinez.
 

WPMUFC

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Do we think Ajax position was they'll let one of Martinez or Anthony leave but not both as they don't want to lose so many first teamers in one go? Or were they only ever willing to let Martinez leave and no intention of letting Anthony leave?

If they were only willing to let one of them leave, did we make the right choice in getting Martinez? I suppose it comes down to whether our secondary targets at CB were stronger/weaker than our secondary targets for RW.
we'd get Antony for 100m, they just know not even MUFC is that stupid. We probably overpaid for Martinez as well because they didn't want to sell. But in football, CB's are not as "sexy" for transfers. And Ajax are now betting that a good campaign from Antony again will actually place his price in the high-80-90 million mark this time next year.
 

Dominos

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They wanted neither to leave. That's why we overpaid for Martinez.
Obviously, but they could have priced Martinez at 100m just like they have done with Anthony and priced them both out of a move.

I wonder if we made Anthony the priority they would have sold for say 60m and then priced Martinez out if a move instead.
 

GledTheRed

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Can price him out of a move all they want but while he has the potential to play in the PL on 150k a week they are running a risky game which could well blow up in their face.
 

Davie Moyes

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Do we think Ajax position was they'll let one of Martinez or Anthony leave but not both as they don't want to lose so many first teamers in one go? Or were they only ever willing to let Martinez leave and no intention of letting Anthony leave?

If they were only willing to let one of them leave, did we make the right choice in getting Martinez? I suppose it comes down to whether our secondary targets at CB were stronger/weaker than our secondary targets for RW.
I remember a quote from Ten Hag when we started the job here saying Antony would be very difficult to get. He knew they rely on him this season and therefore have no intention of selling him...unless it's a crazy price.
 

Wing Attack Plan R

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we'd get Antony for 100m, they just know not even MUFC is that stupid. We probably overpaid for Martinez as well because they didn't want to sell. But in football, CB's are not as "sexy" for transfers. And Ajax are now betting that a good campaign from Antony again will actually place his price in the high-80-90 million mark this time next year.
Ajax are making a mistake, then, in my opinion. Whether Antony has a blinder of a season won't make him "Premier League proven", it will just make him one year older. If Antony does not have an amazing year, his price will be below the inflated prices we're being made to pay right now, and who knows, we might even forget all about him if he has a stinker of a year. Ajax should take the 50 or 60 million we're willing to pay now, instead of hoping we still we want him a year from now and would be willing to pay an additional 20 (or so) million.
 

georgipep

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The story about Ajax bumping the price up for Antony is incorrect because the price was always between £70m - £90m.

The tweet below from Marcel van der Kraan was also echoed by Mike Verweij who works for the same Dutch outlet. And the tweet below is from April this year.


For me if the club add another two or 3 players to the ones they've already signed, it'll arguably be the most exciting transfer window post Fergie IMO. And I do believe at least two more players will be signed before the close of the window.
Thank you for not falling into the "we are having a transfer window nightmare" frenzy.
I also think we are having a very good window and if we do get Frenkie, it would be fantastic. If we get Frenkie and Sesko, that will be absolutely the number 1 transfer summer since Ferguson.
 

Redcy

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Obviously, but they could have priced Martinez at 100m just like they have done with Anthony and priced them both out of a move.

I wonder if we made Anthony the priority they would have sold for say 60m and then priced Martinez out if a move instead.
No it was pretty much always stated that they wanted 70-80m. Whether ten hag thought he could get him for 50-60 I don’t know.
 

Putting all banter aside

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Putting all banter aside

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67 million quid for a bloke with stats in the Eredivisie that do not impress at all. I really think EtH his exaggerated centre of attention on Dutch / Eredivisie players is potentially damaging here.
 

Daslogisch

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we'd get Antony for 100m, they just know not even MUFC is that stupid. We probably overpaid for Martinez as well because they didn't want to sell. But in football, CB's are not as "sexy" for transfers. And Ajax are now betting that a good campaign from Antony again will actually place his price in the high-80-90 million mark this time next year.
Exactly this.
 

Daslogisch

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Ajax are making a mistake, then, in my opinion. Whether Antony has a blinder of a season won't make him "Premier League proven", it will just make him one year older. If Antony does not have an amazing year, his price will be below the inflated prices we're being made to pay right now, and who knows, we might even forget all about him if he has a stinker of a year. Ajax should take the 50 or 60 million we're willing to pay now, instead of hoping we still we want him a year from now and would be willing to pay an additional 20 (or so) million.
Dude, Ajax can sell him for 50-60m next year even if he doesn't have a fantastic season. Premier League proven is bollocks anyway, he can he WC or CL proven in a year to skyrocket his price. If he plays a decent season and not a great one Ajax will sell him for 50-60m next year.

That's exactly why Ajax doesn't sell him for that price right now. If he does explode he could be worth 80m+ next year. He is not right now, but Ajax want to first see him explode in Amsterdam before selling him. If in the meanwhile his value rises, even better and if it doesn't then Ajax will sell him for a decent fee next year.
 

Rozay

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Dude, Ajax can sell him for 50-60m next year even if he doesn't have a fantastic season. Premier League proven is bollocks anyway, he can he WC or CL proven in a year to skyrocket his price. If he plays a decent season and not a great one Ajax will sell him for 50-60m next year.

That's exactly why Ajax doesn't sell him for that price right now. If he does explode he could be worth 80m+ next year. He is not right now, but Ajax want to first see him explode in Amsterdam before selling him. If in the meanwhile his value rises, even better and if it doesn't then Ajax will sell him for a decent fee next year.
What, like Neres? How can Ajax sell him for 50/60m next season even if he isn underwhelming? Is that the going rate for good players from the Eredivise or something?

And this ‘increase his value at the WC’ thing is getting less likely by the day. Raphinha will be ahead of him. If Raphinha is performing weekly at Barcelona as their first choice, he will start above Ajax’ winger.
 

allesreiniger

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Ajax are making a mistake, then, in my opinion. Whether Antony has a blinder of a season won't make him "Premier League proven", it will just make him one year older. If Antony does not have an amazing year, his price will be below the inflated prices we're being made to pay right now, and who knows, we might even forget all about him if he has a stinker of a year. Ajax should take the 50 or 60 million we're willing to pay now, instead of hoping we still we want him a year from now and would be willing to pay an additional 20 (or so) million.
That’s the whole difference. Ajax wants to play a beauty of football and stick with the top of europe. Persuing that goal the way Ajax did brought them to pot 1 in the CL as we speak! It is not about the price of a single player, it’s about the way you play ball and the team you are able to form as a club. The squad’s (international) performance boosts the price of every individual player in the end.

Ajax wants to keep Antony because het fits in nicely in the team and adds a humungous amount of thread in Ajax next to his technical skills. Thát is what boosts his price at the moment. He might as well not perform equally in another team. Would that keep his price up because his name is Antony? Definately not. So I got the feeling that you álso state your post because you really really would love to see him at Man Utd. Not so much that Ajax is mistaken?! They seem to do pretty damn good besides the free transfers of past season which is be taken care of with HamKlaas.
 

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What, like Neres? How can Ajax sell him for 50/60m next season even if he isn underwhelming? Is that the going rate for good players from the Eredivise or something?

And this ‘increase his value at the WC’ thing is getting less likely by the day. Raphinha will be ahead of him. If Raphinha is performing weekly at Barcelona as their first choice, he will start above Ajax’ winger.
There's a lot between great and underwhelming. It's not black or white. If he's shit, of course we won't sell him for 60m, but there's no reason to believe that will happen.

If you act in life based on worst case scenario's then you should be locking yourself at home all day long. You can get hit by a truck if you go outside. Better not to risk that right?

Worst case scenarios are no basis to live your life on and also not to do business. If Antony plays a decent season with one or two good performances in CL and he keeps his position in the NT, Ajax can sell him for around 60m next year. That is a pretty likely scenario.

Best case scenario is that he completely explodes, gets some great statistics in the Dutch league, plays very well in CL, gets a starting position for the Brazil NT and shines in the WC. As mentioned, it's a best case scenario but not a total unrealistic one. This could actually happen. He has the talent and qualities to do it and in the Brazil NT he is a serious contender to play.

Raphinha has made his chances worse actually. Raphinha is not going to play a lot, unless Dembele gets injured. Followed his dream to go to Barca, could easily cost him the WC. If Dembele stays fit, Raphinha will be lucky to be a regular sub and start a handfull of games.
 

Rozay

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There's a lot between great and underwhelming. It's not black or white. If he's shit, of course we won't sell him for 60m, but there's no reason to believe that will happen.

If you act in life based on worst case scenario's then you should be locking yourself at home all day long. You can get hit by a truck if you go outside. Better not to risk that right?

Worst case scenarios are no basis to live your life on and also not to do business. If Antony plays a decent season with one or two good performances in CL and he keeps his position in the NT, Ajax can sell him for around 60m next year. That is a pretty likely scenario.

Best case scenario is that he completely explodes, gets some great statistics in the Dutch league, plays very well in CL, gets a starting position for the Brazil NT and shines in the WC. As mentioned, it's a best case scenario but not a total unrealistic one. This could actually happen. He has the talent and qualities to do it and in the Brazil NT he is a serious contender to play.

Raphinha has made his chances worse actually. Raphinha is not going to play a lot, unless Dembele gets injured. Followed his dream to go to Barca, could easily cost him the WC. If Dembele stays fit, Raphinha will be lucky to be a regular sub and start a handfull of games.
Of course, but 60m is already close to a record Eredivise sale. Anything short of an absolute best case scenario will see him go for less, as decent/good Eredivise players simply don’t go for 60m. He would need to look like a world class player, anything short of that and it wouldn’t pass 40m.

Fair point on Raphinha, although he seems to have started very well and cost a lot of money. I expect he is very much in the plans. And both Dembele and Fati both struggle to stay fit. But Barcelona is just one of those clubs, especially with Brazilian forwards. If he is a Barca star, his profile would be enormous in Brazil.
 

Putting all banter aside

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Dude, Ajax can sell him for 50-60m next year even if he doesn't have a fantastic season. Premier League proven is bollocks anyway, he can he WC or CL proven in a year to skyrocket his price. If he plays a decent season and not a great one Ajax will sell him for 50-60m next year.

That's exactly why Ajax doesn't sell him for that price right now. If he does explode he could be worth 80m+ next year. He is not right now, but Ajax want to first see him explode in Amsterdam before selling him. If in the meanwhile his value rises, even better and if it doesn't then Ajax will sell him for a decent fee next year.
So following your logic, Premier League proven is bollocks, but that one or two CL performances in the group phase against Trabzonspor or Midtylland while producing mediocre stats in the Eredivisie are the ultimate proof that a club wants to pay 50-60m next year. God, I find it hilarious how Ajax supporters have a tendency to logic their way out based on club preference solely.
 

Bebestation

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He seems very flashy. Almost a bit too much at times with his jumping and skilled touches.
 

BenitoSTARR

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I don’t think Ajax would get a better offer next season even if he had a great season.

Who else in world football is in the market for an Antony that has more financial backing than United?

Just don’t see it personally.
 

Rolaholic

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Liverpool were linked earlier this summer, they could use him if they end up selling Firmino
 

Wing Attack Plan R

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That’s the whole difference. Ajax wants to play a beauty of football and stick with the top of europe. Persuing that goal the way Ajax did brought them to pot 1 in the CL as we speak! It is not about the price of a single player, it’s about the way you play ball and the team you are able to form as a club. The squad’s (international) performance boosts the price of every individual player in the end.

Ajax wants to keep Antony because het fits in nicely in the team and adds a humungous amount of thread in Ajax next to his technical skills. Thát is what boosts his price at the moment. He might as well not perform equally in another team. Would that keep his price up because his name is Antony? Definately not. So I got the feeling that you álso state your post because you really really would love to see him at Man Utd. Not so much that Ajax is mistaken?! They seem to do pretty damn good besides the free transfers of past season which is be taken care of with HamKlaas.
To break down your comment: would I like Antony at United? Yes, but. I haven't watched him live, ever. I have only seen YouTube highlight reels, and those are deceptive by nature. Even Lukaku looks good in highlight reels.

The real question is whether Ajax can let him go, take the money, and keep playing the type of football they want to play. I think the answer to that is: yes they can, and should. United is making a gamble - maybe a huge one - in bringing in all these Ajax players. We have seen the stars from that Ajax team (DeLigt, DeJong, VDB et al.) not set the world alight. They were better in the system they had at Ajax under ETH. Out in the wild, they have not excelled, some more than others.

The truth is that the Dutch league is just not as good as the Premier League, and while many Dutch players go on to become superstars, many players have torn up the Dutch league and ended up looking shit in the Premier League (Altidore, Memphis Depay). I knew Altidore was going to flop but Memphis flopping surprised me.

So do we want to pay a fee worthy of a world-class talent for Antony, who hasn't even torn up the Dutch league? No. In stop-start season with a World Cup figuring in the middle, Antony might not get going, might look great or might look inept. No one knows. This moment, right now, ETH wants him and United are desperate. Next season, that won't be the case. I guarantee ETH will have figured out how to organize and coach this team, and while we are not challenging for the title, we will be a greatly improved side. A year from now, maybe Sancho will have nailed down the right side of our attack (where he was ostensibly going to play anyway) and maybe Antony will be a flash in the pan.

My personal thoughts on Antony are that he reminds me of a Brazilian version of Nani. Nani was brilliant and frustrating and wildly inconsistent. Whether Antony can do his cute tricks against goons in the Premier league remains to be seen. Ajax should drop their valuation, sell Antony, and move on.
 

allesreiniger

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The truth is that the Dutch league is just not as good as the Premier League, and while many Dutch players go on to become superstars, many players have torn up the Dutch league and ended up looking shit in the Premier League (Altidore, Memphis Depay). I knew Altidore was going to flop but Memphis flopping surprised me.
I can agree with some of your comments, though I still don’t agree on the fact of dutch players failing in PL just because PL isa better league. I think you can clearly sum up quite a list of players like pogba who díd show their talent and also flopped. And he didn’t come from the dutch league!

The talent of a player not getting out on the pitch is not only related to his own quality, a league or his opponent. It is also (maybe even more so) related to how he and the team is managed. That in contrast to just buy expensive players and expect that they make a champ-team. I think that that is where Man Utd missed the point last year(s).

At Ajax it seems that players get managed well and grow in the team excelling to the team they have now. So why sell if the key players in your team are excelling?! Still don’t know why you they say that Ajax should sell for a lower price and move on??

I think it is best if Man Utd starts properly managing the team. Hope TH can help out with that. Ajax will hopefully continue the trend of last years in which they are able to keep there excelling base players added with young talents. And keep being a healthy club by selling home grown youngsters for big fees.
 

Matt851

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Feel like there are a number of other players of a similar level to Antony who we could get for cheaper so hope we move on
 

Golden Nugget

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That’s the whole difference. Ajax wants to play a beauty of football and stick with the top of europe. Persuing that goal the way Ajax did brought them to pot 1 in the CL as we speak! It is not about the price of a single player, it’s about the way you play ball and the team you are able to form as a club. The squad’s (international) performance boosts the price of every individual player in the end.

Ajax wants to keep Antony because het fits in nicely in the team and adds a humungous amount of thread in Ajax next to his technical skills. Thát is what boosts his price at the moment. He might as well not perform equally in another team. Would that keep his price up because his name is Antony? Definately not. So I got the feeling that you álso state your post because you really really would love to see him at Man Utd. Not so much that Ajax is mistaken?! They seem to do pretty damn good besides the free transfers of past season which is be taken care of with HamKlaas.
The name that pops to mind is Januzaj - where PSG apparently offered 44m (which was a lot back then) for him after his first season where he showed a lot of promise. Obviously that didn’t materialize and he ended up with bad loans and ended up being forgotten. It really could go both ways
 

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Can rest assured that Ajax had someone watch the Athletic Madrid game and have increased Antony's valuation by another 5m or so if we want him. Dang.

EDIT: I'm dyslexic apparently.
 

red thru&thru

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Why are you so bothered about the price? You're not going to pay for him are you. The Glazers are. If ETH wants him who cares how much we pay for him? You would rather Liverpool get him because he is too expensive?
Price matters because we, like all other teams besides Barca, have a budget. More you spend on one player, the less you have for another.
 

Woziak

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Price matters because we, like all other teams besides Barca, have a budget. More you spend on one player, the less you have for another.
A Budget that no one truly knows outside the Glaziers and some of the united board. When your desperate you break the bank, I deplore Barcelona and what they are doing but if the team starts playing well wins La liga and gets to the Semi Finalds of the CL do you think their fan will care?
 

red thru&thru

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A Budget that no one truly knows outside the Glaziers and some of the united board. When your desperate you break the bank, I deplore Barcelona and what they are doing but if the team starts playing well wins La liga and gets to the Semi Finalds of the CL do you think their fan will care?
Barca are in a league where one of 3 will win the league. They're guaranteed top 4 irrespective.

In England that is not that case. We have already proven that spending big does not equal success.