Antony

Rozay

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Let’s see. But I don’t think he had a career with us anymore, even if his charges are dropped. The images and recordings are far too much for anyone to take/forgive. If somehow the club let him started, I suspect our players would even refuse to play with him.
There is no way anyone will be able to so openly treat an acquitted man as guilty. No chance. They’d likely be liable to legal action themselves if so.

It will be incredibly difficult though, just due to the nature of the sport. He’d be booed by fans home and away who don’t care about proven guilty or not.

The ‘images and recordings’ are for a court to process. The image is of a woman with injuries, for example, the courts would need to determine how she got them. The recording sounds pretty damning of course, but who knows of there is wider context. If it turns out that an additional 01:30 secs of unreleased audio changes everything, then it will be treated as such.

It isn’t as closed as people are making out, but I do agree that it will be mightily difficult for MG to play, personally. But you can’t just throw a person away because they have been accused of something.
 

prateik

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Skilful and plays from the right.
I don't care if he isnt the most consistent.. Would love a player like him at the club..

If ETH brings in a player for the right wing, he will automatically become the best manager post Fergie.. The last right winger we had was Nani.. its unbelievable how we have gone nearly 10 years without one.
 

RedRonaldo

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There is no way anyone will be able to so openly treat an acquitted man as guilty. No chance. They’d likely be liable to legal action themselves if so.

It will be incredibly difficult though, just due to the nature of the sport. He’d be booed by fans home and away who don’t care about proven guilty or not.

The ‘images and recordings’ are for a court to process. The image is of a woman with injuries, for example, the courts would need to determine how she got them. The recording sounds pretty damning of course, but who knows of there is wider context. If it turns out that an additional 01:30 secs of unreleased audio changes everything, then it will be treated as such.

It isn’t as closed as people are making out, but I do agree that it will be mightily difficult for MG to play, personally. But you can’t just throw a person away because they have been accused of something.
Of course not, but we are at the age of social media, and that’s how it works to most people. Once the damming images/recording are released, it would be extremely difficult for him to get away with public at the very least. So in the end it will be more about damaging to club/sponsors’ image, if he plays again.
 

Sparky Rhiwabon

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Skilful and plays from the right.
I don't care if he isnt the most consistent.. Would love a player like him at the club..

If ETH brings in a player for the right wing, he will automatically become the best manager post Fergie.. The last right winger we had was Nani.. its unbelievable how we have gone nearly 10 years without one.
Unbelievable that the player we all thought was finally coming in to address the long-standing problem is actually a left sided attacker!
 

AngeloHenriquez

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I think with some outrage he will be allowed back in.
I don't want to say too much because it's a legal issue but I'll look to try and respect the law and the decision of the courts/ police otherwise what is the point of a legal system? That response is pertained solely to Greenwood either, it's a generalization on the situation.
 

Rozay

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Of course not, but we are at the age of social media, and that’s how it works to most people. Once the damming images/recording are released, it would be extremely difficult for him to get away with public at the very least. So in the end it will be more about damaging to club/sponsors’ image, if he plays again.
The sponsors would be forced to back him if he were acquitted I think. What could they do? It’s Joe Public that would be the biggest issue, and there would be no easy way around it for him/us - but the media would have to be fairly kind, if he is essentially an innocent man.
 

RedRonaldo

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The sponsors would be forced to back him if he were acquitted I think. What could they do? It’s Joe Public that would be the biggest issue, and there would be no easy way around it for him/us - but the media would have to be fairly kind, if he is essentially an innocent man.
I am sure damaging “sponsors image” have different level of meaning to actually acquitted to domestic abuse/rape charges in court.

For example, Nike has completely cut ties and ended their sponsorship with Greenwood, even though he has not yet been found guilty in court. These company pay millions or tens of millions to the club to promote their brand. They could cut ties and ended the sponsorship anytime if they found there’s anything caused by club/players which seriously lead to the damage of reputation to their brand in public eyes - as those public would be their potential customers. So it’s all about publicity and reputation, and I feel there’s no way Greenwood could turn that around now.
 

ForeverRed1

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Maybe they are quality? Like a Garner, they need to play more often.

If you want guaranteed quality then we buy players in their 24-26 range. But then they will obstruct any paths for our academy kids. We can't have it both ways.
Thats the balancing act a manager has to do.
They are quality for sure. I’d didnt say they weren’t..but you also need a squad depth and to rotate (like pep and Klopp do) we are yet to have a manager in recent times that can do that and keep players happy. I do agree use the youngsters and give them plenty of minutes though. We just need to add some more attacking flair to this team to compete with the best. In my humble opinion of course.
 

VanDeBank

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I don't understand the clamouring for him. Yes he is an interesting prospect, but he's only scored 8 league goals playing for the most dominant team. The last time we had such a player in the ED was Bergwijn. Our league is shit and these are massive gambles.

Sometimes I feel like he was being lazy in some league games against minnows, because it wasn't high profile enough. But that's not an attitude I want at United, especially right now.
 

Bestietom

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Sooner we go for Nkunku and Nunez if we are to bring in 2 forwards.
 

Tarrou

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I don't understand the clamouring for him. Yes he is an interesting prospect, but he's only scored 8 league goals playing for the most dominant team. The last time we had such a player in the ED was Bergwijn. Our league is shit and these are massive gambles.

Sometimes I feel like he was being lazy in some league games against minnows, because it wasn't high profile enough. But that's not an attitude I want at United, especially right now.
I'm in the same boat, I'm not sure he'd be worth the price Ajax would want. But if ETH wants him, I'd get on board. And also, there are not that many left-footed right wingers out there, or at least no obvious signings I can think of.
 

JPRouve

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Sooner we go for Nkunku and Nunez if we are to bring in 2 forwards.
These are both central players. Wouldn't it be better to have one of them and then go for a wide attacker/midfielder?
 

davidmichael

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Sooner we go for Nkunku and Nunez if we are to bring in 2 forwards.
Its got to be Nkunku and Antony or Nunez and Antony, no point in bringing in two central players or another who plays off the left when we need someone on the right and despite playing the odd game there Nkunku is NOT a right sided player.
 

JPRouve

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Nkunku can play wide also.
Nkunku is a central player, ideally you play him centrally. There is no logic in bringing him and expect him to mainly play in a role that he isn't ideal when you don't have to do that.
 

Bestietom

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Mukiele is available on the cheap also. This guy would be a bargain this summer.
Can play across the backline or as a RWB.
 

Bestietom

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Nkunku is a central player, ideally you play him centrally. There is no logic in bringing him and expect him to mainly play in a role that he isn't ideal when you don't have to do that.
But who says that Ten Hag will not play 2 up front. He could want to change things here.
 

andersj

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Nkunku is a central player, ideally you play him centrally. There is no logic in bringing him and expect him to mainly play in a role that he isn't ideal when you don't have to do that.
If Man Utd had Nkunku and Nunez they would play Sancho, Nunez and Nkunku up top. And I think that would work well for EtH.
 

JPRouve

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If Man Utd had Nkunku and Nunez they would play Sancho, Nunez and Nkunku up top. And I think that would work well for EtH.
If they had them but they don't. My question is why put yourself in a situation where you ignore obvious issues and instead try to put square pieces in round holes? And don't get me wrong, if the idea is to replace Bruno with Nkunku then I totally get it but that move shouldn't be at the expense of balance and once again ignoring our width issues.
 

Bestietom

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Maybe he will but it exposes our lack of wide midfielder options even more.
Liverpool or City don't play with out and out wingers.
Mane and Salah are not out and out wingers.
Pep calls his players wide forwards.
Both teams depend on their full backs to bomb forward and cross the ball. Most Top teams play this way now.
We might be better to change to their way if we want to succeed as the more we have able to put the ball in the net the better.
 

Rozay

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Mukiele is available on the cheap also. This guy would be a bargain this summer.
Can play across the backline or as a RWB.
Absolutely - he’s very good and a no brainer at the price.
 

andersj

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If they had them but they don't. My question is why put yourself in a situation where you ignore obvious issues and instead try to put square pieces in round holes? And don't get me wrong, if the idea is to replace Bruno with Nkunku then I totally get it but that move shouldn't be at the expense of balance and once again ignoring our width issues.
When I’ve seen Leipzig play Nkunku has been one of two attacking midfielders behind a striker. Basically functioning as a wide forward. And he has been great. More similar too Foden than Bruno.

Depends on the fullbacks, but we need new fullbacks anyway.
 

JPRouve

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Liverpool or City don't play with out and out wingers.
Mane and Salah are not out and out wingers.
Pep calls his players wide forwards.
Both teams depend on their full backs to bomb forward and cross the ball. Most Top teams play this way now.
We might be better to change to their way if we want to succeed as the more we have able to put the ball in the net the better.
I don't care about what City and Liverpool do. They don't have the same roster and don't have the same needs. Our most effective players are currently central players, our weakest area outside of central midfield is wide with both our fullbacks and wide attackers/midfielders being subpar offensively. I'm not calling for out and out wingers, I didn't even mention wingers, in fact I literally mentioned wide forwards/midfielders.

We are in the thread of one of those wide forwards, who is an out and out winger but you suggested that we shouldn't go for him and go for two central players which isn't a crazy idea but still requires explanation in order for people to understand where you are coming from.
 

JPRouve

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When I’ve seen Leipzig play Nkunku has been one of two attacking midfielders behind a striker. Basically functioning as a wide forward. And he has been great. More similar too Foden than Bruno.

Depends on the fullbacks, but we need new fullbacks anyway.
I don't see it, I don't see the rational in it. What you are suggesting only really exist in a 4312 or 3412. First that's not really part of ten Hag toolset but you never know and secondly it would expose even more the current squad because it would expose the lack of CBs, wingbacks and depending on the system either ball moving or game breaking midfielders. And what do we do with Sancho?
 

andersj

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I don't see it, I don't see the rational in it. What you are suggesting only really exist in a 4312 or 3412. First that's not really part of ten Hag toolset but you never know and secondly it would expose even more the current squad because it would expose the lack of CBs, wingbacks and depending on the system either ball moving or game breaking midfielders. And what do we do with Sancho?
Ajax played 4312 the last couple of games actually.

And I think you are wrong. The way Nkunku operated in those games were not much different from a wide forward at City in a 433. Or Coutinho at LW at Liverpool in a 433.

Personally, I would have played Sancho/Nkunku behind a striker as wide forwards. Just like Leipzig have done numerous times. And City. Or even Chelsea this season (although not in a 433).
 

Bestietom

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I don't care about what City and Liverpool do. They don't have the same roster and don't have the same needs. Our most effective players are currently central players, our weakest area outside of central midfield is wide with both our fullbacks and wide attackers/midfielders being subpar offensively. I'm not calling for out and out wingers, I didn't even mention wingers, in fact I literally mentioned wide forwards/midfielders.

We are in the thread of one of those wide forwards, who is an out and out winger but you suggested that we shouldn't go for him and go for two central players which isn't a crazy idea but still requires explanation in order for people to understand where you are coming from.
Where I am coming from, It is you who should be answering this question.
I have explained that I would like to see Ten Hag play 2 up front, and this does not mean that both should play in the middle all the time. They can both play out wide when needed to.
We play Sancho and Rashford as wingers or wide players as they are called now, or what games are you looking at. This is not working for us, and hasn't been for some time now.
It is time for change and I hope Ten Hag is the right man for the job, and before you jump on this, lets see what his philosophy is and the systems he wants to play here.
 

JPRouve

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Where I am coming from, It is you who should be answering this question.
I have explained that I would like to see Ten Hag play 2 up front, and this does not mean that both should play in the middle all the time. They can both play out wide when needed to.
We play Sancho and Rashford as wingers or wide players as they are called now, or what games are you looking at. This is not working for us, and hasn't been for some time now.
It is time for change and I hope Ten Hag is the right man for the job, and before you jump on this, lets see what his philosophy is and the systems he wants to play here.
That's not what you did, I asked you a question, you answered that Nkunku can play wide and you then speculated on what ten Hag may or may not want to do. If you had simply answered my question with the idea that you want us to play with two upfront then I would have understood where you were coming from. And no it's not my place to tell you where you are coming from, you made a point, I asked you about it. Don't take it as a negative, I just wanted to understand your point of view because it wasn't obvious.

Now I don't know if it's ideal for us this summer because the formations that would suit it exposes our biggest weaknesses.
 

AjaxCunian

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12 g/a in 23 matches
17 g/a in 32 matches

Is decent enough for a winger that doesn't take any set pieces. 10g/10a over a league campaign of 38 matches is a good return for a winger.

In the CL he was very productive this campaign with 6 g/a in 7 matches, very few can replicate that.

Other than that, even without g/a, Antony adds a lot. He links up very well with the other players and mainly the right back. He creates space for others and himself by good runs, his insane pace and ability to beat defenders. He also presses intensively. Would be a massive upgrade for United but think he'll stay one more year.

His xPV and xT is very high I can imagine. He contributes greatly to the expectation of the team scoring and for a forward also well to the expectation of the team not conceding with his individual actions. These are the players clubs should look for.
 

Adam-Utd

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12 g/a in 23 matches
17 g/a in 32 matches

Is decent enough for a winger that doesn't take any set pieces. 10g/10a over a league campaign of 38 matches is a good return for a winger.

In the CL he was very productive this campaign with 6 g/a in 7 matches, very few can replicate that.

Other than that, even without g/a, Antony adds a lot. He links up very well with the other players and mainly the right back. He creates space for others and himself by good runs, his insane pace and ability to beat defenders. He also presses intensively. Would be a massive upgrade for United but think he'll stay one more year.
Stats aren't everything in football. Players who are good ball carriers, a 1v1 threat and suck other defenders to him to create space for others. That cannot be properly recognised with stats.

Add in entertainment factor too. I'd rather watch somebody like Antony on the wing than a workhorse.

He might take some time to adapt, but he's clearly got everything needed to do well here.
 

Bestietom

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That's not what you did, I asked you a question, you answered that Nkunku can play wide and you then speculated on what ten Hag may or may not want to do. If you had simply answered my question with the idea that you want us to play with two upfront then I would have understood where you were coming from. And no it's not my place to tell you where you are coming from, you made a point, I asked you about it. Don't take it as a negative, I just wanted to understand your point of view because it wasn't obvious.

Now I don't know if it's ideal for us this summer because the formations that would suit it exposes our biggest weaknesses.
Man I just have enough of this. Just get a few bottles of wine and relax until we see what Ten Hag does. I am no manager and you are not either.
 

AjaxCunian

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Stats aren't everything in football. Players who are good ball carriers, a 1v1 threat and suck other defenders to him to create space for others. That cannot be properly recognised with stats.

Add in entertainment factor too. I'd rather watch somebody like Antony on the wing than a workhorse.

He might take some time to adapt, but he's clearly got everything needed to do well here.
I think it can, more advanced statistics like xPV (possession value), measure these things. Goals/assists don't really.

xPV is typically not accessible to the average fan unfortunately but I do agree with you.