Apart from his passing, what did Smalling actually do wrong? And are you against him coming back next season?

ivaldo

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It's not like 0 vs 0.05 ''through ball'' is any difference. But if that's how you want to describe it than I'll play along with.

The point is me talking about Smalling's problem not Lindelof's weakness. How is making less progressive/forward passes is weakness? Like I said before, you are being too defensive on Lindeof.
You were in the Lindelof thread bringing up a single, unimportant incident from a decade ago in order to prove Lindelof was slow. Like I said, I've no idea why you have this agenda. It's burgeoning on an obsession. You're genuinely here, trying to make the argument that Smalling is a more progressive passer FFS :lol:

Succinctly surmised by romufc:
Have a look at the stats below on passing

Lindelof had a better passing accuracy %, more passes ending in the final 1/3, and more passes in the opp half. That is progressive passing and play.




https://www.squawka.com/en/harry-maguire-man-utd-centre-backs-compare/
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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You were in the Lindelof thread bringing up a single, unimportant incident from a decade ago in order to prove Lindelof was slow. Like I said, I've no idea why you have this agenda. It's burgeoning on an obsession.
I used more than a single incident and they didn't happen decade ago.

If I said Maguire & Van Dijk won more aerial duel than Smalling, does this also means it's part of Smalling weakness? You have very weird logic, all you want is arguing.

You're genuinely here, trying to make the argument that Smalling is a more progressive passer FFS :lol:
That's what happen when someone only read one sentence. What about you read the whole post and you will realise where the argument & the point is.

I believe when Smalling with us, he made more progressive passes than Lindelof did. It's not about his passing but it's actually about his inability of playing against high press team. On top of it, we are going to play him next to Bissaka who is also not very good to keep possession against high press. I'll still welcome him & everyone should welcome him if he comes back to our squad for next season. Although, I think Roma will come back with the same bid and we will accept it, Europa League is over for them.
 

romufc

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I used more than a single incident and they didn't happen decade ago.

If I said Maguire & Van Dijk won more aerial duel than Smalling, does this also means it's part of Smalling weakness? You have very weird logic, all you want is arguing.



That's what happen when someone only read one sentence. What about you read the whole post and you will realise where the argument & the point is.
I think he is trying to highlight different areas where you keep trying to have a go at Lindelof.

Saying he is a better progressive passer than Lindelof when I have shown you stats where it is not true. progressive doesnt mean playing longer passes. Smalling can play passes forward from CB to RB. Lindelof stats in the opp half are alot better, his chances creation is alot better.

When comparing, only his ariel ability is questioned, other stats he is similar to Smalling from the 18/19 season.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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I think he is trying to highlight different areas where you keep trying to have a go at Lindelof.

Saying he is a better progressive passer than Lindelof when I have shown you stats where it is not true. progressive doesnt mean playing longer passes. Smalling can play passes forward from CB to RB. Lindelof stats in the opp half are alot better, his chances creation is alot better.

When comparing, only his ariel ability is questioned, other stats he is similar to Smalling from the 18/19 season.
The point of the thread is whether Smalling has place in here with the argument of ''his passing'', it's obvious that if I want to make comparison for the argument, it has to be with our reliable centre back Lindelof & Maguire. That's the main reason why I used Lindelof comparison not because I'm trying to have a go at Lindelof. One small thing, you two turned into big and being very defensive. ''Friday eyes'' indeed, don't be so defensive mate.

My view about progressive passes is not just based on chance creation or one or two aspects but based on everything that related to progressive passes.
 

ivaldo

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Points out ridiculous comment no one in their right mind would make... StOp BeInG sO dEfEnSiVe.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Points out ridiculous comment no one in their right mind would make... StOp BeInG sO dEfEnSiVe.
You missed the point and you knew it. Of course I don't expect you to back down from it.
 

ivaldo

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You missed the point and you knew it. Of course I don't expect you to back down from it.
No, the point is plain, hence why several other people have argued the contrary. In fact, the stats have been provided to you, that comprehensively refutes your stance (that itself was based purely on a few stats), and instead of commenting on it, you've ignored it entirely. You didn't just stop there though, you actually edited out the sentence I referenced them when you replied to me. And when the other poster mentioned it again because you ignored it originally, you've accused him being 'defensive.' It really is bizarre.

The point of the thread is whether Smalling has place in here with the argument of ''his passing.
Case in point. That's the opposite to the point of this thread. It's discussing all aspects apart from his passing. It's literally the first word in the header. The OP took it as a given that everyone agreed his passing was crap, yet here you are.
 
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UNITED ACADEMY

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No, the point is plain, hence why several other people have argued the contrary. In fact, the stats have been provided to you, that comprehensively refutes your stance (that itself was based purely on a few stats), and instead of commenting on it, you've ignored it entirely. You didn't just stop there though, you actually edited out the sentence I referenced them when you replied to me. And when the other poster mentioned it again because you ignored it originally, you've accused him being 'defensive.' It really is bizarre.


Case in point. That's the opposite to the point of this thread. It's discussing all aspects apart from his passing. It's literally the first word in the header. The OP took it as a given that everyone agreed his passing was crap, yet here you are.
You are just arguing. I even told you that I'm okay with your statement about Lindelof's passing so I don't know what else do you want me to say here?

if that's how you want to describe it than I'll play along with.
The point is very clear, I was talking about Smalling's passing. Why do I need to talk about other aspects when I agree to the OP's view about them?

I used Lindelof as comparison to make statement that Smalling's passing isn't the problem but his problem is inability to play under high press. Whatever the stats is used, mine or romufc, romufc stats doesn't even show any difference to show that Smalling's passing is the problem but similar to Lindelof. Even he said apart from aerial duel, Lindelof has similar other stats to Smalling.
 

romufc

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romufc stats doesn't even show any difference to show that Smalling's passing is the problem but similar to Lindelof. Even he said apart from aerial duel, Lindelof has similar other stats to Smalling.
Stats based on 18/19SmallingLindelof
Passing accuracy %86.1689.19
Passes ending in final 1/3rd62 (2.62 per game)114 (3.94 per game)
Passes in opp half205 (12.18 per game)385 (16.33 per game)
Dribbles complete18

As you can see there is a difference when it comes to progressive passing.

Anyway, I said defensive stats between them were not much different expect Ariel ability.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Stats based on 18/19SmallingLindelof
Passing accuracy %86.1689.19
Passes ending in final 1/3rd62 (2.62 per game)114 (3.94 per game)
Passes in opp half205 (12.18 per game)385 (16.33 per game)
Dribbles complete18

As you can see there is a difference when it comes to progressive passing.

Anyway, I said defensive stats between them were not much different expect Ariel ability.
What difference? Check Maguire if you want to know the definition of "difference".

Passing ending in final 1/3rd pretty much reflects to the original stats that I posted about Lindelof having better chances created. Passing accuracy & dribbles complete don't reflect to progressive passes. Other than that, Smalling had better stats than Lindelof.

 

Luke1995

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About him coming back - I think, like they say, ''that ship has sailed''

His development didn't go as expected since Fergie signed him. He's had too many years here without making massive improvements. He should be one of the best in the world by now.
 

Colin Clarke

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I seriously have no problem with Smalling being in our squad, but he would be behind Maguire, Lindelof, Bailly and Tuanzebe and this is where the problem is, he is too good not to get regular game time. If he isn't at least making the bench week in week out he should move to keep his career alive. If Ole feels he can do a job for us I would be happier for him to stay over Rojo or Jones, both of whom should be moved on.
 

SwedishFish

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I think he wants to be a starter and not sit on the bench if it weren't for that, I'd be happy to keep him as a backup. He deserves to get a move if he wants one and somebody pays up what he's worth.

An amicable breakup would be the best for all parts at this point. Get some new blood in and start fresh.
 

jesperjaap

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I think he wants to be a starter and not sit on the bench if it weren't for that, I'd be happy to keep him as a backup. He deserves to get a move if he wants one and somebody pays up what he's worth.

An amicable breakup would be the best for all parts at this point. Get some new blood in and start fresh.
Completely agree. Feel sorry for him Roma pulled out, and have seen Italian fans saying fee is ludicrous for a player his age. Maybe it is in Serie A but its a reasonable fee here. I have every confidence he will get a decent move for the fee we wish for
 

VP89

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Romas takeover was completed today, so I wouldnt rule out them returning for Smalling.
 

Web of Bissaka

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His development didn't go as expected since Fergie signed him. He's had too many years here without making massive improvements. He should be one of the best in the world by now.
Why?
Even when he's a young defender, he doesn't gave that impression he can potentially be one.

Average decision makings when on the ball and lacking composure are his worst weaknesses. The latter (good composure) usually cannot be trained, and best in the world tend to have that since young.

Smalling tend to always be in rush mode when defending, and hesitant mode when on the ball.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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Unless we are signing Koulibaly or Gimenez or that Diego Carlos I don't see why we shouldn't keep him. He's better than every other defender that we could possibly get this window asides maybe the 3 I mentioned. And this is me ignoring the fact that Smalling is not injury prone like Gimenez, Smalling had a better season than Koulibaly and this is Diego Carlos break out season
 

SirMattlives

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I'd find room for him in the squad, especially over Jones or Rojo. Could never figure why England selected Jones over him either. If we can massively improve the defense by new signings then fine, shift him, but otherwise, he's welcome back.
 

sillwuka

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If Smalling would accept the bench role he would leapfrog Tuanzebe just due to his injuries.

He'd be a very strong back up who would play against certain opposition.
 

Red71

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The “Agenda” argument when someone thinks your favourite player isn’t that good is one of the more tiresome aspects of the caf. Just because you have an opinion on a player doesn’t make everyone else with an opinion agenda ridden.

I personally don’t rate Lindelof because he isn’t, in my view, particularly good at the basics of defending. He’s ok. He’s probably seen as a modern defender who is comfortable jockeying, avoiding aerial duals, dribbling and trying to be a bit more cerebral in his defending. Fine if that’s what you like but it’s not for me. I don’t rate him any higher than Blind in that regard though which is frustrating as I can’t see him as an upgrade.

Smalling has his deficiencies too but in my old fashioned view, I’d rather find a way of making his style work with Maguire than Lindelof’s style. The legend of Smalling’s shite passing that has been handed down through generations of the caf so it’s now established as gospel when it was never horrific. Is he a baller...? No, he’s not but the passing problem is overplayed in my view. “Son, just go out, win me the ball and then ping a quick pass in to Pogba, Fred, Bruno etc...(OT even Maguire)...“ Maybe I’m just old fashioned but let the defender actually defend and the midfielder get, create, pass, dribble, score etc...

When you measure his ability and attributes against the best defenders out there at all aspects of actual defending, he measures up extremely well. I just don’t think Lindelof does personally, whether it’s against his own type or the more aggressive, physical front foot defender. I just think he’s average i.e. I don’t see anything that he excels at. This is why I’d have Smalling as Maguire’s partner for now (if we’re not in the market)

I don’t know how Sir Matt managed to put together such fantastic teams and be so successful without having access to the copious amount of stats these days such as Lindelof averaging 0.5 through balls per game or whatever nonsense it was. I prefer the eye test given that’s how you watch football and I felt more secure watching Smalling at the back than Lindelof. I know I would just much rather play up against a Lindelof than a Smalling or Maguire, even acknowledging their respective weaknesses.

It’s obviously horses for courses and no doubt both would be useful in the squad but I would just rather we had someone strong and pacy next to Maguire. If it needs to be Smalling for now, so be it! Shame Tuanzebe hasn’t been able to stay fit because then there’d almost certainly be no need for this thread...ifs and buts though...
 

Luke1995

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Why?
Even when he's a young defender, he doesn't gave that impression he can potentially be one.

Average decision makings when on the ball and lacking composure are his worst weaknesses. The latter (good composure) usually cannot be trained, and best in the world tend to have that since young.

Smalling tend to always be in rush mode when defending, and hesitant mode when on the ball.
Because Fergie spent two years developing him and he usually can turn good players into great players. It was a disappointment seeing Smalling and Jones's trajectory
 

hmchan

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The “Agenda” argument when someone thinks your favourite player isn’t that good is one of the more tiresome aspects of the caf. Just because you have an opinion on a player doesn’t make everyone else with an opinion agenda ridden.

I personally don’t rate Lindelof because he isn’t, in my view, particularly good at the basics of defending. He’s ok. He’s probably seen as a modern defender who is comfortable jockeying, avoiding aerial duals, dribbling and trying to be a bit more cerebral in his defending. Fine if that’s what you like but it’s not for me. I don’t rate him any higher than Blind in that regard though which is frustrating as I can’t see him as an upgrade.

Smalling has his deficiencies too but in my old fashioned view, I’d rather find a way of making his style work with Maguire than Lindelof’s style. The legend of Smalling’s shite passing that has been handed down through generations of the caf so it’s now established as gospel when it was never horrific. Is he a baller...? No, he’s not but the passing problem is overplayed in my view. “Son, just go out, win me the ball and then ping a quick pass in to Pogba, Fred, Bruno etc...(OT even Maguire)...“ Maybe I’m just old fashioned but let the defender actually defend and the midfielder get, create, pass, dribble, score etc...

When you measure his ability and attributes against the best defenders out there at all aspects of actual defending, he measures up extremely well. I just don’t think Lindelof does personally, whether it’s against his own type or the more aggressive, physical front foot defender. I just think he’s average i.e. I don’t see anything that he excels at. This is why I’d have Smalling as Maguire’s partner for now (if we’re not in the market)

I don’t know how Sir Matt managed to put together such fantastic teams and be so successful without having access to the copious amount of stats these days such as Lindelof averaging 0.5 through balls per game or whatever nonsense it was. I prefer the eye test given that’s how you watch football and I felt more secure watching Smalling at the back than Lindelof. I know I would just much rather play up against a Lindelof than a Smalling or Maguire, even acknowledging their respective weaknesses.

It’s obviously horses for courses and no doubt both would be useful in the squad but I would just rather we had someone strong and pacy next to Maguire. If it needs to be Smalling for now, so be it! Shame Tuanzebe hasn’t been able to stay fit because then there’d almost certainly be no need for this thread...ifs and buts though...
It's always funny to see people apply this standard to some players (e.g. Wan-Bissaka, Kante) but not Smalling.
 

Red71

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It's always funny to see people apply this standard to some players (e.g. Wan-Bissaka, Kante) but not Smalling.
I’ll take your word for it...I rate them both in their respective positions.
 

Rolaholic

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Conte 100% deserves his own luxury suite at Old Trafford if this happens
 

Fortitude

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We should be sending him an SOS and calling him back.

There isn't a player at the club who is better than him as a defender. Worrying about playing it out of the back is a secondary concern if your players can't even do the primary duty of defending.
 

Rozay

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He’s a far better centre half than any other on our books, and always has been. We’d be a better team with him in it.